Aldi site Clonsilla road

December2012 · 08-02-2013 2:22pm #1

Any ideas?

Orobhsa · 08-02-2013 2:54pm

Aldi wanted a supermarket.

http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/site-at-clonsilla-road-clonsilla-dublin-15/118708

Murt10 · 08-02-2013 9:48pm

Aldi bought the site and paid a fortune for it. That was during the boom. They wanted to build a supermarket there. They also wanted to build loads and loads of apartments.

The density was too high and they were turned down. The last i heard they were appealing the decision to turn down their application.

December2012 · 09-02-2013 2:19am

So does that mean nothing for now?

dickwod1 · 09-02-2013 2:30am

Yep thats gonna be like that till things pick up (if ever) ALDI has the old school in Mulhuddart now for there next D15 location
Starting work on it in the next few months.

ozmo · 12-02-2013 11:38am

dickwod1 wrote: »

Yep thats gonna be like that till things pick up (if ever) ALDI has the old school in Mulhuddart now for there next D15 location
Starting work on it in the next few months.

Not the Aldi site, but the one in that advert (ie. the narrower land directly beside the church) - Ive seen a bit of work in past two weeks with that land being cleaned and new gates going up - there might be a push now going on to try sell it.

MrJoeSoap · 14-02-2013 12:04am

That's just around the corner from me, such an eyesore. There was formerly a house there owned by Miley Caldwell, who I believe ran for election in the 1990's. There was also quite a large (for the area) field behind the house where he had a couple of horses over the years. The "hoarding" now just shields some fairly unsavoury youths from view, I've seen all sort of scrotes coming and going through the gaps in the boards. Every time the gaps are fixed they are broken again, and the lock has been broken quite a few times.

I actually saw a horse in there a few weeks ago through the gap in the boards.

The Dark Knight · 26-01-2014 5:43pm

Looks like the eyesore has got worse!!!!
They have replaced the wooden boarding with high level mesh fencing. You can now clearly see the derelict houses, which are now in much worse condition that before the hoarding was put up. Lots of graffiti, etc.

Does anybody know where we can make a complaint on this?
I had though a condition of the planning permission ruling was that the site be kept secure and well maintained.
The houses should be knocked down at this stage!

ozmo · 26-01-2014 9:08pm

The Dark Knight wrote: »

Does anybody know where we can make a complaint on this?
I had though a condition of the planning permission ruling was that the site be kept secure and well maintained.
The houses should be knocked down at this stage!

They were bricked up but the houses have actually been modified by someone with hammers to be stables... Hopefully these new fences wont have their locks cut off like the hoarding had.

Its scheduled to all be demolished at some time in the future acording to Fingal cc- real pity as its nice seeing the row of cottages reinstated- if only they hadnt been destroyed.

I sent a message to Aldi Ireland (via facebook as they are very active on that) - asking them if they would paint out the grafitti in the meantime- they replied they are thinking about it.

Maybe If a few sent the same request....

https://www.facebook.com/AldiIreland

ozmo · 29-01-2014 4:35pm

Only up a week and its all bent up - looks like someone tried to climb over it and the posts used were so light they just folded.

Finglas Incubus · 30-01-2014 1:45pm

ozmo wrote: »

Only up a week and its all bent up - looks like someone tried to climb over it and the posts used were so light they just folded.

I noticed that last night. That fence will come down without easily with a bit of brute force, hopefully the local shams will leave it alone...

It looks pretty bleak from the roadside and detracts from the character of the existing cottages in the vicinity. I would be of the view that the site will not be developed any time soon, perhaps reverting to hoarding would be the preferred approach in terms of maintaining visual amenity in the medium term (although that may attract graffiti, go figure).

ozmo · 30-01-2014 3:44pm

Looks a state alight - the old cottages were in fine condition until they removed the hedges and boarded it all up. Aldi have totally ruined the village.

Fingal meeting minutes said "Carew Kelly" Architects prepared the drawings / specification for the contractors to erect the paladin type fence. They were also tasked with preparing drawings / specification for both the demolition of the buildings *or* the erection of a fence to their rear in order to prevent access to the buildings.

Looks like they might have under-spec'ed the fence and went with the No Demolition option
as there is now fence at the back - also there are now Huge gaping holes in the foot-path that the fence just passes over and would have been easier for the vandals to just go under the fence at these points rather than over.

The Dark Knight · 01-02-2014 8:03pm

I think the only solution at this point is to demolish the houses. At least that will expose the nice green space behind, and certainly be easier on the eye.
Anybody got any idea on what the best way to progress this? Fingal CC, Aldi, Local counsillors?

Finglas Incubus · 01-02-2014 10:24pm

The Dark Knight wrote: »

Anybody got any idea on what the best way to progress this? Fingal CC, Aldi, Local counsillors?

My view would be local councilors in the first instance. If any of members of the Dublin 15 Community Council are listening, you may want to consider tabling this point for discussion at the next executive committee meeting, perhaps with a view to making a representation to Aldi directly.

Slightly off topic but Aldi paid way over the odds for this piece of land and its worth remembering that they sought approval to build a number of apartment blocks at the back of the store with a view to maximising their investment. High density apartment complexes are 2 a penny in D15 these days so the chances of a similar development going ahead in the future are slim (not withstanding the impact such a development would have on traffic volume in the immediate area).

I had expected them to submit an amended application minus the apartments, however on reflection, the site is too big for a standalone store and it wouldn't provide a sufficient rate of return to justify the investment. They may choose to shift the asset off their balance sheet and sell it off a reduced rate to generate some cash, that said they're doing pretty good right now and working capital is likely not an issue for them.

In the short term, my view would be that they would have no interest in demolishing the existing buildings as to do so serves no purpose from a commercial standpoint and may complicate subsequent planning submissions. The question is, does 'Like Aldi, Love Ireland' extend to Clonsilla?

Finglas Incubus · 29-04-2014 11:52am

Finglas Incubus wrote: »

In the short term, my view would be that they would have no interest in demolishing the existing buildings as to do so serves no purpose from a commercial standpoint and may complicate subsequent planning submissions.

It seems I spoke too soon, I note that demolition work has started in earnest on the cottages on the site. It will be interesting to see what happens next...

oblivious · 29-04-2014 12:01pm

Finglas Incubus wrote: »

It seems I spoke too soon, I note that demolition work has started in earnest on the cottages on the site. It will be interesting to see what happens next...

Looks like that have started but is been two weeks or so since they have been back

ozmo · 29-04-2014 12:04pm

Finglas Incubus wrote: »

It seems I spoke too soon, I note that demolition work has started in earnest on the cottages on the site. It will be interesting to see what happens next...

They did two or so days work - progress but now there are several half torn down buildings - then left - nothing has happened with it in over two weeks now - it looks like they want to leave the front wall of the cottages standing - easier for future planning permissions I would imagine that leaving a nice green field.

The Dark Knight · 29-04-2014 1:38pm

oblivious wrote: »

Looks like that have started but is been two weeks or so since they have been back

Aldi were served with a derelict site notice by Fingal Co Co, and ordered to demolish and make good the site or repair and paint the housed.
So I would assume they'll fully demolish all the buildings.

I had assumed the lack of progress over the past two weeks was due to builder holidays. Hoping they'll start again soon.

Aldi are suppose to be submitting revised plans in the coming month.......

The Dark Knight · 08-05-2014 9:23pm

Work started again this week. Will be great to see the graffiti gone. Looks like they will be removing all the houses.

Interesting to see the new Aldi plans now.
Still holding onto hope that they'll come up with a supermarket with a nice row of restaurants/independent retailers and low rise housing leading onto a new canal embankment...... Won't be holding by breath! :-(

oblivious · 08-05-2014 10:36pm

The Dark Knight wrote: »

I had assumed the lack of progress over the past two weeks was due to builder holidays. Hoping they'll start again soon.

There was also asbestos on the site according to a counciler news letter

ozmo · 21-07-2014 10:52pm

New 2014 Aldi Planning application???

This notice was found on the canal path by a friend - Im not sure exactly where it was found but its likely the Aldi site - Ill ask tomorrow exactly where he took it.

Looks like could be just more houses rather than a shop?

Can anyone find the full plans online?

Pat Dunne · 22-07-2014 12:35am

It's not the Aldi site.

Here are a couple of map links along with the planning information on Fingal Co. Co.

http://documents.fingalcoco.ie/NorthgatePublicDocs/00473520.pdf

http://documents.fingalcoco.ie/NorthgatePublicDocs/00473525.pdf

Planning Reference:
FW14A/0081
Date of Application:
04-Jul-2014
Date of Registration:
04-Jul-2014
Application Type:
Permission
Case Officer:
Nicholas OKane
Applicant:
Denver Valley Developments Ltd
Location:
Weaver's Walk, Clonsilla Road, Clonsilla, Dublin 15
Proposal:
The proposed development will consist of 21 no. two storey dwellings View full text
Fingal Co Co Decision:
Date of FCC Decision:
Final Grant Date:
Current Status:
Registered application
This application was received by Fingal County Council on 04-Jul-2014 and registered on 04-Jul-2014. Please note that in cases where the Registration date differs substantially to the Date of Application - this is usually as a result of the submission of Additional Information. This application is currently under consideration.
Submission/Observation:
Please Log On in order to submit your observation. Submissions/Observations to this application may be made on or before 07-Aug-2014

ozmo · 22-07-2014 4:20am

Pat Dunne wrote: »

It's not the Aldi site.

Ahh - thanks - I see - its the land closer to the train station behind the Petrol Station.

Shame they couldn't have done anything to keep anything of that long line of tall trees
- but the extra access from Clonsilla road to the canal would be nice though.

oblivious · 24-11-2014 10:13am

Looks like site notice has gone up with a planning application but there are no document associated with the appellation (site pans date 14/11 and online 19/11).

http://www.fingal.ie/planning-and-buildings/apply-or-search-for-a-planning-application/search-planning-applications-online/searchplanningapplicationsonline/

ozmo · 24-11-2014 10:55am

oblivious wrote: »

Looks like site notice has gone up with a planning application but there are no document associated with the appellation (site pans date 14/11 and online 19/11).

Here is the notice anyway - seems to be a Double floored building (previous it was 1 floor I think?) - 2 big signs

- offlicence as expected; but not looking forward to this bit as it cannot be a help to the underage drinking and the hassle it causes in the village and local housing estates

)

and what could be an improved housing block - 3 bedroom units rather than lots of 1 bedroom bedsits.

Would like see the full plans though.

January · 24-11-2014 11:00am

Aldi are v good at looking for ID

Finglas Incubus · 24-11-2014 12:48pm

Link to planning application here, one can expect maps and plans to be available online soon after submission.

I'm particularly interested to see the traffic study when it becomes available, increased volumes was one of the reasons why the original application was turned down. However, 20 houses versus 4 (or was it 6?) apartment blocks, as per the original application, will have a lesser impact. Original plan from 2008 below:

Source: http://www.carewkelly.ie/projects/commercial/aldi-clonsilla/

Larbre34 · 24-11-2014 12:49pm

The scale of that is way too ambitious for the road infrastructure. My educated guess is traffic considerations will scupper it.

Theyll probably be back in year for the houses only....

oblivious · 24-11-2014 1:34pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

The scale of that is way too ambitious for the road infrastructure. My educated guess is traffic considerations will scupper it.

Theyll probably be back in year for the houses only....

Traffic would be mine to, the spar-Ravellos is getting bloody dangerous will cars just pulling out into on coming traffic.

Straylight · 24-11-2014 8:40pm

Is this just going to be an annual event where Aldi keep submitting revised plans until they finally get planning permission? The simple fact is that the site is not suitable for a supermarket. Even the increased traffic from a residential development will have a large impact on traffic on Clonsilla Road, so I dread to think what it would be like with an Aldi there.

oblivious · 24-11-2014 10:53pm

The documents for the site are up http://documents.fingalcoco.ie/Northgate.WebSearch/(S(y0ddawnjazjp4055wskdse55))/Results.aspx

oblivious · 24-11-2014 11:11pm

Finglas Incubus wrote: »

[/url]

Here it is http://documents.fingalcoco.ie/NorthgatePublicDocs/00482815.pdf

There final submitted drawings looks a bit different to the one you got from the architects site

Finglas Incubus · 25-11-2014 10:33am

oblivious wrote: »

There final submitted drawings looks a bit different to the one you got from the architects site

It is...the original plan was from 2008 if I remember correctly.

The Planning Report and Retail Impact Statement (link here) makes for an interesting read. It contains a couple of tenuous arguments relating to restaurant demand and traffic impact (traffic impact study here) but they'll likely be weeded out by the planning process.

Aldi have done a much better job this time of meeting many of the key stipulations contained in the previous refusals and the proposal is more in keeping with the requirements of the Fingal and Clonsilla development strategies / plans. There remains questions over the setting of precedent with future development in mind, the validity of the traffic study in real terms (need to consider permission being sought for housing development at nearby Weavers Walk) and how / if Aldi will control communal / commuter parking.

oblivious · 25-11-2014 11:00am

Finglas Incubus wrote: »

It is...the original plan was from 2008 if I remember correctly.

Ah ok

Finglas Incubus wrote: »

The Planning Report and Retail Impact Statement (link here) makes for an interesting read. It contains a couple of tenuous arguments relating to restaurant demand and traffic impact (traffic impact study here) but they'll likely be weeded out by the planning process.

Aldi have done a much better job this time of meeting many of the key stipulations contained in the previous refusals and the proposal is more in keeping with the requirements of the Fingal and Clonsilla development strategies / plans. There remains questions over the setting of precedent with future development in mind, the validity of the traffic study in real terms (need to consider permission being sought for housing development at nearby Weavers Walk) and how / if Aldi will control communal / commuter parking.

Yea there are a few developments still to start at will only add more traffic to the road network of the area. The Weavers Walk traffic study looked to be more critical of their development and that was with out the presence of a supermarket!

I also though the Fingal wanted access at the end of the developed to develop the canal area. That can happen with the current plans

ozmo · 25-11-2014 11:14am

That can happen with the current plans

Yeah I was looking st the incorrect plans posted above- maybe they should be removed?- the real plans do look a bit closer to what Fingal want with the straight road to the canal.

.

oblivious · 25-11-2014 11:26am

ozmo wrote: »

Yes I was looking st the incorrect plans posted above- maybe they should be removed?- the real plans do look a bit closer to what Fingal want with the straight road to the canal.

.

There was a drawing knocking around of what Fingal wanted from the site. The
Aldi plans just look like access way rather than what they envisioned for the sight

ozmo · 25-11-2014 12:01pm

Yes - here are the suggested plans from Fingal - I think they are amazing and we shouldn't accept easily anything less.

Yes, the argument is there is no current boom - but that is no reason to accept something that would be prevent a decent upgrade of the village over the next years to come - any planning done now will be there for a very very long time.

oblivious · 25-11-2014 3:03pm

ozmo wrote: »

Yes - here are the suggested plans from Fingal - I think they are amazing and we shouldn't accept easily anything less.

Yes, the argument is there is no current boom - but that is no reason to accept something that would be prevent a decent upgrade of the village over the next years to come - any planning done now will be there for a very very long time.

Looks like Aldi are only developing only a part of what Fingal are looking for (marked in Blue). I though they owned all of that site ?

MrJoeSoap · 27-11-2014 12:34am

oblivious wrote: »

Looks like Aldi are only developing only a part of what Fingal are looking for (marked in Blue). I though they owned all of that site ?

My understanding was that Aldi owned the land that is currently fenced in. The land adjacent to it that was formerly a scrap yard of sorts was separately owned... I think.

jazzrocket · 02-12-2014 9:41pm

The addition of Aldi to Clonsilla Village will be a good thing, I think many many people will walk there

ozmo · 15-12-2014 8:01pm

if anyone wants go...

Finglas Incubus · 17-12-2014 3:28pm

ozmo wrote: »

if anyone wants go...

Wanted to get along but had to work Monday evening. Did anyone attend, if so, what was the general reaction?

ozmo · 17-12-2014 5:02pm

Leo Varadkar and others were available there talking to everyone.

Wasn't a huge turnout it has to be said in the church yesterday where the plans were on display- Lots of interesting info from the locals...

I think this is an old builders trick whereby they put through planning just before Christmas in the hope of everybody being too busy.

If anyone has any concerns or suggestions there is another meeting happening tonight (wed 17th) in Westmanstown Garda club 8PM. And any submissions have to be in before next tuesday

I'm in two minds about it - I can see the attraction of it but My concern is the heavy goods traffic on a very tight road, the increased hassle a discount off-licence will bring and the large scale not suitable for a village setting or in keeping with the Much better ideas in Fingal CoCo Development plan..

If Castleknock can reject Lidl in favour of a line of little shops (adding to the village rather than taking it over) - why cannot Clonsilla?

The Dark Knight · 17-12-2014 6:16pm

ozmo wrote: »

....... not suitable for a village setting or in keeping with the Much better ideas in Fingal CoCo Development plan..

If Castleknock can reject Lidl in favour of a line of little shops (adding to the village rather than taking it over) - why cannot Clonsilla?

Well said ozmo!
My main problem is that we will loose any opportunity to fulfil the Fingal Development Plan.
This area (including the adjacent plot of land) is the last opportunity to add to Clonsilla Village. We have enough shopping centres and retail parks around to fulfil the Large Retail type of shopping experience.

I don't mind a small supermarket, but there should be provision for a pedestrianised area/street, with a number of smaller independent shops.

Meeting the other night was OK. Good thing more people didn't turn out. The Church was a bit cramped.
Felt the counsellors were sitting on the fence a bit. Really seeing if this is a battle worth supporting.
Most people were objecting on the grounds of Traffic, Delivery Lorries and protecting the village scene.

Rosser · 18-12-2014 12:20am

ozmo wrote: »

If Castleknock can reject Lidl in favour of a line of little shops (adding to the village rather than taking it over) - why cannot Clonsilla?

I hope you're right but Lidl appealed to An Bord Plenala and the decision is due tomorrow. Don't live in Clonsilla but isn't there enough supermarkets around already?

oblivious · 18-12-2014 10:20am

The Dark Knight wrote: »

Well said ozmo!
My main problem is that we will loose any opportunity to fulfil the Fingal Development Plan.
This area (including the adjacent plot of land) is the last opportunity to add to Clonsilla Village. We have enough shopping centres and retail parks around to fulfil the Large Retail type of shopping experience.

I don't mind a small supermarket, but there should be provision for a pedestrianised area/street, with a number of smaller independent shops

Well said both of you

Rosser · 18-12-2014 10:14pm

Lidl we're turned down following today's decision from An Bord Plenala, their reasons seem to be as appropriate for Clonsilla as they are for Castleknock.

jazzrocket · 20-12-2014 6:49pm

I really hope it gets the go ahead, I didn't have a car recently for few weeks and it was 40 mins walk to Lidl over in Blakestown or slightly longer to Blanchardstown the local Spar only has very basic things... I tried the bus but it takes as long and its hard work with shopping...I think of villages like Clonee which were pretty much dead before Lidl opened up

I called Aldi and they said the only 1 truck per day will deliver to the store and it will likely be at between 8pm & 11pm so outside peak

There will be some local jobs aswell...even part time ones which are good for parents

I think if Aldi dont get the planning that site will just be left there with no advantage to anyone

(I dont favour Aldi - just want a local supermarket that has more then local Spar)

daymobrew · 21-12-2014 10:00am

jazzrocket wrote: »

I really hope it gets the go ahead, I didn't have a car recently for few weeks and it was 40 mins walk to Lidl over in Blakestown or slightly longer to Blanchardstown the local Spar only has very basic things... I tried the bus but it takes as long and its hard work with shopping

This is where Tesco or SuperValu delivering to your home becomes very useful.

January · 21-12-2014 10:48am

daymobrew wrote: »

This is where Tesco or SuperValu delivering to your home becomes very useful.

And for people that can't afford tesco and Supervalu prices??

Rosser · 22-12-2014 1:28am

January wrote: »

And for people that can't afford tesco and Supervalu prices??

Fair point but not reason enough to allow an Aldi there at the expense of all other considerations.

Aldi site Clonsilla road

Comments