Were You Afraid Of Your Parents?

Chuck Stone · 11-02-2013 05:41AM

kfallon wrote: »

My Da did it to me a few times (prob no more than 3 or 4) when I was younger. It taught me right from wrong.

In fairness, what parents hitting their kids teaches them is that 'might is right'.

token101 · 11-02-2013 05:54AM

Nothing at all has changed, this breakdown of society stuff goes on every generation. Good parents raise good kids, **** parents create societal problems. That will never change.

Mr. Nice · 11-02-2013 06:17AM

Would be interesting to know how many of the "thou shalt not strike a child, in any circumstances" are actually parents?
IMHO non-parents are in no position to judge.

Czarcasm · 11-02-2013 06:40AM

Mr. Nice wrote: »

Would be interesting to know how many of the "thou shalt not strike a child, in any circumstances" are actually parents?
IMHO non-parents are in no position to judge.

Whether a person is a parent or not should have no bearing on their ability to say hitting a child is wrong, we were all kids once, we're all human beings. Before I was ever a parent I could say a woman giving a four year old an almighty thump across the head in the middle of the street was wrong. I shouted at her to get her attention before she let fly with another one while the child was still dazed and crying in pain.

Czarcasm · 11-02-2013 06:48AM

Chuck Stone wrote: »

In fairness, what parents hitting their kids teaches them is that 'might is right'.

Woeful generalisation there Chuck. In my experience a person who suffers a violent childhood would not want that their children would suffer the same as they did.

A child primarily learns their behaviour from their parents, but some children can be inherently aware that something is not right. People are individuals, and while you can quote statistics and case studies, etc all day, at the end of the day there's no getting away from the fact that an individual, even as a child, is capable of instinctively knowing the difference between right and wrong, and can go against behaviour they witnessed as a child.

Chuck Stone · 11-02-2013 06:54AM

Czarcasm wrote: »

Woeful generalisation there Chuck.

Do me a favour there bro, actually refute what I've written by addressing its premise rather going off on a tangent.

Czarcasm · 11-02-2013 07:02AM

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Do me a favour there bro, actually refute what I've written by addressing its premise rather going off on a tangent.

I did address it's premise and didn't go off on a tangent?

You put forward your opinion that hitting a child teaches them that might is right. I put forward my opinion that it was a woeful generalisation because I believe that it isn't true- because I believe that children are individuals that are born with instinct and conscience and can form an opinion independent of their parental teachings.

Chuck Stone · 11-02-2013 07:32AM

Czarcasm wrote: »

I believe that children are individuals that are born with instinct and conscience and can form an opinion independent of their parental teachings.

And how does that make what I've wrote about slapping wrong?

suicide_circus · 11-02-2013 07:46AM

The two most prevalent forms of child abuse in Ireland today are a lack of discipline and overfeeding

Czarcasm · 11-02-2013 07:57AM

Chuck Stone wrote: »

And how does that make what I've wrote about slapping wrong?

Because it's a generalisation that in my opinion cannot be applied in every case.

Far too often people who commit abuse get lenient sentencing because of the "oh it was done to me so I didn't know any better" excuse. In my opinion that's all it is- an excuse for their behaviour.

Many more people who suffer abuse do not go on to be abusers themselves so the whole idea of a person who has suffered abuse, growing up thinking that "might is right" or that violence is ok, is just a misguided generalisation and an easy "get out clause" for people who commit violence or abuse.

mikemac1 · 11-02-2013 08:20AM

I'm sure there were people 1,000, 2,000 and 3,000 years ago talking among themselves about how feckless the youngsters were and how they never showed respect

Maybe one day someone will look back on this thread

scoob70 · 11-02-2013 08:24AM

What grinds my gears is parents siding with their 'little angels' all the time. A kid, stood round with his mates, threw a stone one night from the side of the road as I was driving and it gave my window screen aright smack. So I pulled up and got out. He crapped himself and he ran off but his mates told me where he lived -lol. So I went to the address and the father started defending his kid saying what kind of person comes after a little kid - WTF! By the way I was not some big burly bloke but a petite women in her late 20's. I've had kids kicking balls against my front door whilst the mothers been stood across the road in her front garden gossiping and when I've asked them to tell their kids to stop its like I'm the one that's the problem. I could go on with many more examples but my point is - this is where the problem lies.

Irish Guitarist · 11-02-2013 08:27AM

I'm 37 and the youngest in the family. My parents had six children and never hit any of us. We were still afraid of getting in trouble. My father shouting at us was usually enough.

Chuck Stone · 11-02-2013 08:28AM

Czarcasm wrote: »

so the whole idea of a person who has suffered abuse, growing up thinking that "might is right" or that violence is ok, is just a misguided generalisation

Nope. There's scientific evidence for it.

Effects of Childhood Maltreatment Confirmed

The report replicates earlier findings that the effects of childhood victimization last into adulthood. Children who are physically abused and neglected have an increased risk of arrest for violence.

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/jr000251g.pdf

Also, I'm not sure if you've noticed but we very much do live in a world where might is right. The Iraq invasion of 2003 would be a good example of it. Locking peaceful people up for victimless crimes is another example of 'might is right'.

It's all around us if you take a moment to think about it.

"If we are ever to turn toward a kindlier society and a safer world, a revulsion against the physical punishment of children would be a good place to start." — Dr. Benjamin Spock

sillysocks · 11-02-2013 08:41AM

I think too many parents these days want to be friends with their kids, at all costs. I have a small toddler and while I hope we will be friends in years to come I think being a parent for the first part of her life is more important - she needs to learn manners, respect and good behaviour and if that comes at a cost of her "hating" me which I'm sure it might once or twice then so be it!

I had "the fear" of my parents, not because of violence or anything abusive but I knew if I stepped out of line I'd be quickly pulled back into it. That's what parents are for, now as an adult we get on really well.

It drives me mad when people can only see the good in their own child and will never believe a teacher/other adult that their child was in the wrong. My little one is generally well behaved but I'm not immune to thinking that she can turn into a little madam sometimes, and when that happens she needs to learn life lessons on how it's not acceptable.

Czarcasm · 11-02-2013 09:01AM

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Nope. There's scientific evidence for it.

I'll have a look at that PDF Chuck when I'm back on the desktop, but it says "an increased risk of arrest for violence". I'll have to see are they talking about violent assault against other individuals including children, or violent behaviour causing them to harm themselves, just what way are they defining violence and what their sources are. Again though the one bugbear I have with statistics on paper is that they never give the full story and there can be many other factors involved.

Also, I'm not sure if you've noticed but we very much do live in a world where might is right. The Iraq invasion of 2003 would be a good example of it. Locking peaceful people up for victimless crimes is another example of 'might is right'.

Now THAT'S a tangent! We're talking here in the thread about whether children who are mistreated and shown violent behaviour from their parents, and as your original post relates to it I assumed you meant the old "apple doesn't fall far from the tree" generalisation/stereotype/excuse.[/quote]

I'm familiar with the works of Dr. Spock, read his parenting bible about two decades ago as a teenager, and I had formulated that children should be treated as individuals with individual thought processes and capability to form conscious independent thought, long before I ever read his book.

It's all around us if you take a moment to think about it.

I've thought about it and analysed it and read up on it for nearly the last 30 years Chuck in an effort to understand human behaviour and psychology.

ps. Thank you at least for not mentioning Freud and Jung, every armchair psychologist on the internet's favorites!

TheDoc · 11-02-2013 02:00PM

I'd rather go into the ring with no arms against Mike Tyson then go toe to toe with my Da

Da Shins Kelly · 11-02-2013 02:11PM

I remember being slapped once or twice as a child. I wasn't hit too hard, just on the wrist. Never did me any harm. I don't look back on it now and think I was "abused", and I don't go around battering the heads of people. I remember being slapped once by my mother because I reached out to touch the iron when it was hot, and she slapped me away. I remember being shocked at the time, but it was enough to make sure I knew never to reach out and touch the iron again.

crockholm · 11-02-2013 02:32PM

I came from an environment where physicality was used daily,and not for one second would I say that it made me who I am today because it didn't, it damn near cracked me a few years back. Having become a father recently has made me reflect on how I should approach this, I love my son so much that I don't think he will ever appreciate it, but I feel that I must keep my distance as a parent.
I want him,to open the door for people,to give his seat to an elderly person,to say sir and mam,please and thanks.
I don't mind being seen as the bad cop to his mom's good cop.

Zebra3 · 11-02-2013 02:41PM

Mr. Nice wrote: »

Would be interesting to know how many of the "thou shalt not strike a child, in any circumstances" are actually parents?
IMHO non-parents are in no position to judge.

Mr Nice promotes violence against kids.

Ironic.

Czarcasm · 11-02-2013 02:48PM

crockholm wrote: »

I came from an environment where physicality was used daily,and not for one second would I say that it made me who I am today because it didn't, it damn near cracked me a few years back. Having become a father recently has made me reflect on how I should approach this, I love my son so much that I don't think he will ever appreciate it, but I feel that I must keep my distance as a parent.
I want him,to open the door for people,to give his seat to an elderly person,to say sir and mam,please and thanks.
I don't mind being seen as the bad cop to his mom's good cop.

The only thing about this croc, and I understand the sentiment, but it means that your child will royally learn to play you off each other, I have a pain in my face from telling my wife that my own child has to see us BOTH stand firm on an issue, not let it be a case of "I don't get it off one, I'll go to the other".

I'd nearly swear he was born with a violin between his thumb and index finger the way he tries to play us sometimes! :pac:

Sadderday · 11-02-2013 02:53PM

My mother used to say 'you wait until your father gets home' when she was agro .....

but he was a cool bean and just like to chill so the teenage years were pretty alright...

Tombo2001 · 11-02-2013 02:54PM

I completely disagree with a lot of this thread.

The major problem I see in this country is that adults dont respect children enough. Never have done.

Adults dont see kids as people, they see them as possessions.....my kid....your kid.

All the conversation here is about how kids behave towards adults....."I want my kid to be well mannered, respectful" and so on.......as if the only relevant person is the adult.

Don't see many people asking how the kids feel about all this.

As for hitting children. If a man walks up to me in the street and punches me, I would call the gardai.

I dont see why a man hitting a child should be treated any differently - if you respect children as being people, and if you respect the notion that people are all equal and have equal rights. But that comes back to my first point. Adults dont respect children enough.

recylingbin · 11-02-2013 02:57PM

Realtine wrote: »

HA - indeed! I remember this well and/or the threat of 'boarding school'.

or spike island for some reason.

wolfpawnat · 11-02-2013 02:59PM

sillysocks wrote: »

I think too many parents these days want to be friends with their kids, at all costs. I have a small toddler and while I hope we will be friends in years to come I think being a parent for the first part of her life is more important - she needs to learn manners, respect and good behaviour and if that comes at a cost of her "hating" me which I'm sure it might once or twice then so be it!

It drives me mad when people can only see the good in their own child and will never believe a teacher/other adult that their child was in the wrong. My little one is generally well behaved but I'm not immune to thinking that she can turn into a little madam sometimes, and when that happens she needs to learn life lessons on how it's not acceptable.

That just písses me off no end "Oh my (enter name) would never do something like that" or "She/He was only playing, they meant no harm" I have heard the latter when their child BIT another child in clear view of them. I was was part of a group running a toddler group, mothers were indignant when you told them that either their child ship up or they weren't welcome back.

Being a parent isn't about being their friend, it is about raising a respectable and balanced human fit for society. You cannot be both when they are young. I hope when my son is 22 he can still come to be with any issue, no matter what happens in this life I will do my best to help him, but I will be the first to kick his áss (figuratively) if I have to. He may hate me when he is a teenager, but he will see as an adult I will have done everything to make him a good man. I owe it to society for bringing him into the world. I want him to be a man to treat women well and to never be that idiot that gets drunk and thinks he is great and can "fight anyone" and makes a show of himself. I am not naive,, he will make mistakes and stupid decisions, but still, I want to do my best to make him a good man.

Beating seventeen types of crap out of a child is not going to achieve that, but the occasion smack on the wrist for SEVERE incidences like nearly burning his hand and a firm non physical discipline routine for being a cheeky little terror is the way I see as being best to raise him.

wolfpawnat · 11-02-2013 03:09PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

The only thing about this croc, and I understand the sentiment, but it means that your child will royally learn to play you off each other, I have a pain in my face from telling my wife that my own child has to see us BOTH stand firm on an issue, not let it be a case of "I don't get it off one, I'll go to the other".

I'd nearly swear he was born with a violin between his thumb and index finger the way he tries to play us sometimes! :pac:

Agreed. Even if I don't think our son has been as "bold" as his father thinks I stick by his decision when disciplining him. E.G. I may think a "time out" is all that is necessary, but his father may think taking a toy off him for 24 hours is the more appropriate action. But if he has already given the punishment, I will stick by it too. Or if I got in with the time-out first, he sticks with me. You have to be a united front. Daddy will take a bit more than I will, but we never undermine each other in front of him.

His grandmother does that "Will you leave him alone" and "you were young once too" But we ignore her and continue the routine, as a result, he behaves dismally for her. He made the fatal error of ignoring her in front of me one day. No DVD's or car toys for a week and no sweeties either, by day two he was a changed little boy! Those things are COMPLETELY unacceptable in my eyes.

She got mad at him one day because he would not do what she asked, I asked him why would he not do it, he answered "She didn't say please Mommy" So I had to give out to nana for not having manners. It works two ways, a child has to see that if they do wrong to someone there are consequences, but also if they are wronged that you will stick by them and make sure whoever did the wrong is corrected.

Tombo2001 · 11-02-2013 03:11PM

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Being a parent isn't about being their friend, it is about raising a respectable and balanced human fit for society. You cannot be both when they are young..

Why cant you be both?

I really dont understand this.

How often do you hear people in middle age, rueing the fact that they "never got to know their mother/ father, and now they are gone"......

If you aren't your child's friend when they are young, what happens....you flick a switch when they are 18 and now you're buddies all of a sudden?

Also, if you are your child's friend, then how can you ever be their confidante?

One thing I sure as hell want to be is somebody that my child can come to when they have a problem. And you can only do that if you are a friend.

Again it comes back to my point earlier, adults dont respect children as being people.

If you are friends with somebody when they are 28 years old, why cant you be friends with the same person when they are 8 years old?

There is absolutely no reason why you can be a friend to your child, and also teach them to be self-disciplined.

To be honest, I just think its a complete cop out for a parent to say "I dont want to be a friend to my child, I want to teach them discipline and that means keeping a distance"....to me that just says you dont want to make the effort.

wolfpawnat · 11-02-2013 03:21PM

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Why cant you be both?

I really dont understand this.

How often do you hear people in middle age, rueing the fact that they "never got to know their mother/ father, and now the are gone"......

If you aren't your child's friend when they are young, what happens....you flick a switch when they are 18 and now you're buddies all of a sudden?

Also, if you are your child's friend, then how can you ever be their confidante?

One thing I sure as hell want to be is somebody that my child can come to when they have a problem. And you can only do that if you are a friend.

Again it comes back to my point earlier, adults dont respect children as being people.

If you are friends with somebody when they are 28 years old, why cant you be friends with the same person when they are 8 years old?

There is absolutely no reason why you can be a friend to your child, and also teach them to be self-disciplined.

To be honest, I just think its a complete cop out for a parent to say "I dont want to be a friend to my child, I want to teach them discipline and that means keeping a distance"....to me that just says you dont want to make the effort.

I should have made myself a little more clear, I meant the parents who will not discipline their children since they think "They'll hate me" and "I don't want to be mean" You can be both, but you have to remember you are their parent first.

I am close with my son, he will admit when something is wrong and what is wrong, and when he has done something wrong he will admit it outright and I don't think there is any fear in his voice when he tells me, but he usually knows that he will still get some sort of punishment.

But no matter what, I am his mom and sometimes I have to be the bad guy, even when I hate having to be. I refuse to believe many parents take joy in being the baddies, but we have to be on occasion.

crockholm · 11-02-2013 03:28PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

The only thing about this croc, and I understand the sentiment, but it means that your child will royally learn to play you off each other, I have a pain in my face from telling my wife that my own child has to see us BOTH stand firm on an issue, not let it be a case of "I don't get it off one, I'll go to the other".

I'd nearly swear he was born with a violin between his thumb and index finger the way he tries to play us sometimes! :pac:

But I've tried nothing,and I'M all out of idea's:pac:

Seriously,thanks for the input,taking it all on board, I guess what we want is that when she has to say "do you want me to tell your father", he might desist and re-think.

wolfpawnat · 11-02-2013 03:51PM

I think these days parents need to remember, it's all well and good to discipline a child, but they should get rewards for good behaviour too. My little guy has just completed his chores (helping me load and unload the washing machine and helped me put away the shopping) something a lot of kids don't seem to do anymore, we always had chores as kids. So he got a treat.

It is a fine balance. as others have said, I think there are too many parents feeling guilty for not having time for their kids because of work etc, so they tend to spoil children without disciplining them, while as kids, many of us were never rewarded for when we were good, only punished for being bold.

Were You Afraid Of Your Parents?

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