Double Jobbers Out!

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 11-02-2013 11:17AM

Corkbah wrote: »

this was a big issue a number of years ago ... taxi licences cost about €80K ... now they are €5K so anyone who wants to earn a little extra on the side is signing themselves up.

Yes, I agree that if someone wants to do a second job they should be allowed - as long as they are tax compliant and everything is above board.

I can also understand it from the Taxi driver point ....the market is saturated and because there is huge competition prices are dropping to a level where the person with a second income can supplement his lifestyle but the full-time taxi driver can't (unless he/she tries to find another job ...which in this economic climate is very difficult).

its a job with no perceived skills ...lets face it ...anyone with a licence can drive around and anyone with a sat nav can find a street address, other markets have also been hit with an influx of "weekend warriors" ... photographers, videographers etc .... there's no proper regulation in the industry and the client often does not know what they want or how much they should pay for it, so those with full-time jobs can afford to do the work at very cheap prices (cheaper than a full-time photographer can do them because of overheads)

Lets use the example of a wedding photographer ... he requires lets say he/she charges €2K for wedding photos (which is 8hours of being there on the day, album for the couple and 2 mini albums for parents...of course there are also plenty of meetings with the bride and groom prior to the wedding also ...and then the 3/4/5days of post processing the images afterwards) ...

he/she makes approx €500 profit for his "day" of work. ...he needs at least one wedding a week (approx 50weddings) to make a decent living ...because that €500 has to be spent on equipment, insurance, income tax, union fees, accountants fees, food, bills, transport etc etc

now.... someone doing a mon-friday job earning €500 ...they get into photography and want to earn a bit of extra money at weekends ...so offer their services as a wedding photographer ..but they offer to do the weddings for €1700 cash in hand - they can provide the exact same album and mini albums as the full-time professional, the bride and groom are paying out less so thats more spending money for the honeymoon, the "part-time" photographer makes €200 cash profit for his "day" of work ..so he/she is chuffed.... he/she doesn't have to pay union fees, accountants fees, insurance

.... because they are not regulated the "part-time" photographer gets more and more wedding work ...because he/she is cheaper than a "professional" and can do the same or a similar job, the "full-time" photographer cant compete on price because he simply cant afford to .... and within 12-18months the "part-time" photographer decides to make the move full-time into photography and the circle begins !! ..... he/she must increase their prices to ensure they can survive but then a "part-time" photographer takes the work from them.

Meh !! ... this is after hours .... "they tuk our jobs !!"

Very good point. I definitely agree. There's a lot of cowboys out there trying to make a quick buck and the service they offer is not that great. It's not fair when people can undercut like this, but in the taxi industry I can't see how it's a big problem.

dan1895 · 11-02-2013 11:18AM

johnr1 wrote: »

This is just stupid pointless whining.

Its taxi drivers we're talking about, what do you expect?

ThisRegard · 11-02-2013 11:19AM

Turtyturd wrote: »

If they weren't crying about that they would be crying about something else.

Cyclists. Look at the recent cycling thread.

Noel Kinsella · 11-02-2013 11:21AM

johnr1 wrote: »

I drive luxury touring buses during the summer and I've noticed quite a few retired primary teachers coming into the business of late. They have the requisite knowledge of history and geography for the job. They also have a secure income for the year which makes them more competitive.
It's annoying, but the professionals in the industry have other advantages and it's up to us to make our offering better to compete.

This is just stupid pointless whining.

I believe teachers should have to work during the summer and get a standard 3 weeks off per year like the rest of us. I am sure the government can come up with stuff to do like tidying up the schools, gardening etc in the times we are in 3 months paid holidays is verging on the parasitic if you ask me.

Czarcasm · 11-02-2013 11:21AM

bluewolf wrote: »

Except photography does involve a bit more skill than just point and click, so they won't get much work beyond family/friends who are stuck, especially when it's discovered they're not really that great after all. Meanwhile the professional should/will do a much better job and have a lot more experience

The unfortunate thing about this is that often times the couple will forego the common sense step of asking to see the cowboy photographer/videographers portfolio of work, only concentrating on the fact that they're cheaper.

I get it a lot in my business as an IT Consultant- people coming to me after getting cheaper half àrsed jobs done (the most common one being illegal software installed which fails verification checks a couple of months down the line).

I outsource a lot of my work to people that are far more qualified to do it than I am too, one example being website design- I can do it, but I wouldn't do as good a job as a person that lives, eats and breathes the stuff!

I see pc repair shops and booths popping up all over town and a lot of people nowadays will go for the cheapest option as opposed to value for money from a professional (though in saying that, some of the tech people in the likes of pc world haven't hands to wipe their proverbials, yet charge premium prices!), and they get burned badly, eventually costing them more money in the long run.

In the case of the taxi driver industry though the difference is that because anyone who can drive can do it and fares are set by the taxi regulator, the customer can lose out by getting in a cab whose driver doesn't know their àrse from their elbow driving around Dublin and are dependent on an out of date sat nav map to get from A to B, as opposed to the full time driver who knows Dublin well and knows their way around.

This can result in increased fares for the customer and time delays whereas the full time driver will be far more efficient.

Turtyturd · 11-02-2013 11:23AM

ThisRegard wrote: »

Cyclists. Look at the recent cycling thread.

Most likely foreign cyclists.

11-02-2013 11:24AM

In the long term it will balance out though. People who have been burned do post up/spread warnings "check in advance and don't do like I did". They will get burned for not taking a bit more responsibility, then in future they'll know better and go somewhere reliable. Happened to us with a boiler repair job recently, learned our lesson. Same for other family
People know in general "you get what you pay for", it's not new or revolutionary

Corkbah · 11-02-2013 11:26AM

bluewolf wrote: »

Except photography does involve a bit more skill than just point and click, so they won't get much work beyond family/friends who are stuck, especially when it's discovered they're not really that great after all. Meanwhile the professional should/will do a much better job and have a lot more experience

erm.... I'm not disputing that photography requires more skill but these days your marketing skills and a basic understanding of photography seem to be enough to get by.

the camera's themselves and basic cop-on can compensate for a lot of the normal errors....that ...combined with the fact that the general public and many people who hire photographers sometimes dont actually know what they want ...as long as its in focus and looks nice !!

Noel Kinsella · 11-02-2013 11:26AM

Czarcasm wrote: »

The unfortunate thing about this is that often times the couple will forego the common sense step of asking to see the cowboy photographer/videographers portfolio of work, only concentrating on the fact that they're cheaper.

I get it a lot in my business as an IT Consultant- people coming to me after getting cheaper half àrsed jobs done (the most common one being illegal software installed which fails verification checks a couple of months down the line).

I outsource a lot of my work to people that are far more qualified to do it than I am too, one example being website design- I can do it, but I wouldn't do as good a job as a person that lives, eats and breathes the stuff!

I see pc repair shops and booths popping up all over town and a lot of people nowadays will go for the cheapest option as opposed to value for money from a professional (though in saying that, some of the tech people in the likes of pc world haven't hands to wipe their proverbials, yet charge premium prices!), and they get burned badly, eventually costing them more money in the long run.

In the case of the taxi driver industry though the difference is that because anyone who can drive can do it and fares are set by the taxi regulator, the customer can lose out by getting in a cab whose driver doesn't know their àrse from their elbow driving around Dublin and are dependent on an out of date sat nav map to get from A to B, as opposed to the full time driver who knows Dublin well and knows their way around.

This can result in increased fares for the customer and time delays whereas the full time driver will be far more efficient.

In my experience Full Time drivers are more likely to go the long route to get that much needed extra buck. The new influx of taxi drivers is a good thing IMO I would rather be driven around by an off duty fireman or garda or teacher than the tow rags that ruled the industry for so long.

kylith · 11-02-2013 11:27AM

I can understand it from the taxi driver's point of view, but from my point of view it's a damn sight easier to get a taxi after a night out. Instead of me queuing at a rank for anything up to an hour they taxis are now queued up at the rank waiting for me. So, yeah, tough, taxi drivers.

11-02-2013 11:32AM

Corkbah wrote: »

erm.... I'm not disputing that photography requires more skill but these days your marketing skills and a basic understanding of photography seem to be enough to get by.

the camera's themselves and basic cop-on can compensate for a lot of the normal errors....that ...combined with the fact that the general public and many people who hire photographers sometimes dont actually know what they want ...as long as its in focus and looks nice !!

Well if that's all they want and there's a genuine market for it, I don't see the harm
Plenty of creative professions can't be done full time unless you're very successful

Logical_Bear · 11-02-2013 11:35AM

frankosw wrote: »

Teachers driving taxis now?

on the plus side you might get an intelligent conversation out of them:pac:

Czarcasm · 11-02-2013 11:40AM

Noel Kinsella wrote: »

In my experience Full Time drivers are more likely to go the long route to get that much needed extra buck. The new influx of taxi drivers is a good thing IMO I would rather be driven around by an off duty fireman or garda or teacher than the tow rags that ruled the industry for so long.

Personal experience, personal choice and all that, I think Where To put it best when he said the cream always rises to the top, which is why I have a taxi driver on account who I regularly use as opposed to the type that'll charge the €2 pick up fee from the hotel and then another €1 luggage charge for my laptop bag, making the fare €7.40 before they even leave the kerb.

Corkbah · 11-02-2013 11:41AM

bluewolf wrote: »

Well if that's all they want and there's a genuine market for it, I don't see the harm
Plenty of creative professions can't be done full time unless you're very successful

I dont see the harm either ...as long as its all above board and there's no undercutting, if someone wants to work two jobs thats fine, but dont undercut trying to get the work as it devalues the profession in the eyes of the public.

I've been a working photographer for over 25yrs and have seen the changes from film to digital and I've seen people take photos with their phones and send them around the world for publication in other countries.

the problem with all professions is regulation - if the industry is properly regulated then the creative survive, similarly with the taxi industry - if it was properly regulated (ie. no criminal previous history of any kind, a set standard car, a designated colour/design and/or regulated hours....meaning someone starting off in the industry or part-time with a fresh licence MUST only work weekdays for a minimum of 2yrs ...like an apprenticeship of sorts)

Turtyturd · 11-02-2013 11:43AM

Czarcasm wrote: »

Personal experience, personal choice and all that, I think Where To put it best when he said the cream always rises to the top, which is why I have a taxi driver on account who I regularly use as opposed to the type that'll charge the €2 pick up fee from the hotel and then another €1 luggage charge for my laptop bag, making the fare €7.40 before they even leave the kerb.

That's working on the assumption there is cream though....these are taxi drivers we are talking about.:pac:

hyperborean · 11-02-2013 11:44AM

Logical_Bear wrote: »

on the plus side you might get an intelligent conversation out of them:pac:

They are so used to teaching subjects they havent studied that I very much doubt it,

leggo · 11-02-2013 11:45AM

Clicked into the topic expecting to rip the OP. Nice switcharoo there.

tin79 · 11-02-2013 11:50AM

Juliana Wrong Self-satisfaction wrote: »

On the way into work today I was behind a taxi and noticed a sticker on his rear window "DOUBLE JOBBERS OUT!".

I guess he is protesting about taxi drivers working a second job.

Well done Sherlock

11-02-2013 11:50AM

Corkbah wrote: »

the problem with all professions is regulation

Well, external regulation might prevent a lot of genuine startups due to more and more unreasonable regulations being added, and the time and cost required to meet them.
Self-regulation might be a way to go, promoting a society of photographers and advertising that you're a recognised member etc!

Ush1 · 11-02-2013 11:50AM

There is probably easier second jobs to have I would think.

GavMan · 11-02-2013 12:03PM

Why aren't Taxis tachographed? That way there could be a matrix of hours where taxi drivers are required to work.

For example, you might have to do X amount of morning hours midweek, X amount of afternoon hours midweek and then whatever at the week.

This stops people working solely on the premium weekend hours.

But then, this would put a stop to running plates 24/7 so that might not suit our honest to goodness taxi men either...

Corkbah · 11-02-2013 12:08PM

bluewolf wrote: »

Well, external regulation might prevent a lot of genuine startups due to more and more unreasonable regulations being added, and the time and cost required to meet them.
Self-regulation might be a way to go, promoting a society of photographers and advertising that you're a recognised member etc!

but then you get a "boys club" scenario.

personally I think the best way to regulate the industry is to identify and remove the rogue element, educate the public on what a photographer should and shouldn't do, explain to them their rights and the rights of a photographer - many people do not understand copyright remains with the photographer unless prior agreement has been arranged, explain to the public the value of an image and highlight the many times someone gets ripped off because they chose the cheaper option.

Corkbah · 11-02-2013 12:09PM

Ush1 wrote: »

There is probably easier second jobs to have I would think.

like ??

Czarcasm · 11-02-2013 12:37PM

Corkbah wrote: »

but then you get a "boys club" scenario.

personally I think the best way to regulate the industry is to identify and remove the rogue element, educate the public on what a photographer should and shouldn't do, explain to them their rights and the rights of a photographer - many people do not understand copyright remains with the photographer unless prior agreement has been arranged, explain to the public the value of an image and highlight the many times someone gets ripped off because they chose the cheaper option.

I think too that there should be a professional bodies set up in the various services industries to create standards, that's the only way you'll root out the rogues, in much the same way as RECI has done for electricians and there are moves in the satellite installer services industry to create a professional body like they have in the UK. What I would consider the old boys club are the likes of the BNI that charge €500 for annual membership and pass the work around between themselves.

As regards the taxi services industry we should employ a standardised system like the black cabs in the UK where you have to pass an exam to get your PSV licence. They used have to do an exam over here to get a PSV licence but I'm not sure does that apply any more since deregulation, certainly doesn't seem so!

What I'm saying is there should be higher barriers to entry so that not every tom, dick and harry can set themselves up in the morning with a taxi licence or even the amateur hobbyist camera enthusiast couldn't set themselves up in business on a whim unless they had a proper portfolio of work and had reached the accredited standard of a professional body.

If you want to be able to advertise yourself as a Microsoft partner, Microsoft have requirements that have to be met before you can do so legally, the same if you want to advertise yourself as a Microsoft MVP.

The unfortunate thing again though is that these accreditations can mean very little to people outside the industry.

sbsquarepants · 11-02-2013 12:48PM

Fúcking whingers is all they are, stuck in a time warp. They still have the mentality that they deserve to be paid like surgeons for the high skilled work they do, ie driving a car! Deluded freaks.
No skill jobs pay minimum wage and are subject to a lot of competition as anybody can do them - suck it up and quit moaning.
Nobody has any sympathy for you!

Balmed Out · 11-02-2013 12:52PM

Well I do have sympathy for the ones who paid 80k for a taxi license only for the fee to drop to 5k. Thats the retirement plan up in smoke.

Where To · 11-02-2013 12:55PM

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Fúcking whingers is all they are, stuck in a time warp. They still have the mentality that they deserve to be paid like surgeons for the high skilled work they do, ie driving a car! Deluded freaks.
No skill jobs pay minimum wage and are subject to a lot of competition as anybody can do them - suck it up and quit moaning.
Nobody has any sympathy for you!

Wee bit harsh sb.

It requires very little skill to be a taxidriver, I'll agree with you there. But being good at it requires skills, talents and attitudes that can't be taught.

Cienciano · 11-02-2013 01:09PM

Taxi drivers are the best moaners in the country. If moaning and complaining was an olympic sport, Irish taxy drivers would take gold, silver and bronze every 4 years.
When taxi plates cost 60k they moaned. When there were feck all taxis in Dublin and the queue would be 100m long and 5 deep, and one taxi would come along every 10 minutes, they moaned. When deregulation came in they moaned. Before the boom they moaned, during the boom when everyone was getting taxis they moaned, after the boom they moan. Regulator puts taxi prices go up, they moan. Regulator puts taxi prices down, they moan. Regulator does absolutely anything, they moan. Regulator does nothing, they moan.
If the government awarded €100k cash payment to every taxi driver in the country, they'd moan. They'd say they should get €300k, the "fordeners" and part timers are getting an unfair cut of their money.

Rubber_Soul · 11-02-2013 01:23PM

There is a very real danger of driver fatigue if someone is working full time during the day and then pulling a shift driving a taxi about at night. Not that I think that's what the majority of taxi driver's issue is with double jobbing.

Cienciano · 11-02-2013 01:27PM

I'm not sure what double jobbing is, but if a taxi driver wants to suck off 2 men at the same time, what they do in the privacy of their own home is up to them.

Double Jobbers Out!

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