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Cyclists, rules of the road, a bit of cop on!

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Comments

  • #542
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,892 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    Canis Lupus wrote: »
    Weird... From a personal perspective when driving and cycling I always see cyclists check their blindspots before making a manoeuvre... I know you like trolling cyclists but there wouldn't be many cyclists on the road if we didn't check our blindspots before manoeurving. Cars would be running us over left right and centre. I think maybe you're forgetting that the human eye doesn't face in one direction like a camera therefore we don't actually have to turn our heads 180 degrees like some kind of freakish owl in order to see our blindspot.

    But hey, sorry for presenting a reasonable argument. I won't interupt again if you like, I need to cycle home soon and I need to focus on all the lights I'll break and old grannies I'll mow down whilst hurling abuse and maybe rocks at mothers with young children in the car. You know, the stuff us cyclists do :)


    Well the 5.00 am grannies are the worst. But according to some of your compatriots
    Cars would be running us over left right and centre
    they are.

    Seriously though check out the videos from helmet cams and see just how many don't turn their heads and you aren't going to see behind you without turning your head unless your eyes are on stalks like a snail.


    Edit...

    BTW here's a test for you, sit in a chair and just take a note of how much behind you that you can't see even when you turn your head, one humoungous blind spot right behind you :P


  • #543
    Canis Lupus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,880 ✭✭✭Canis Lupus


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    Well the 5.00 am grannies are the worst. But according to some of your compatriots they are.

    Seriously though check out the videos from helmet cams and see just how many don't turn their heads and you aren't going to see behind you without turning your head unless your eyes are on stalks like a snail.

    I'm in Australia. Get this. I can legally cycle on the footpath over here. Everytime I do from now on I'll think of you as I cycle along the footpath lashing out with my dlock at random people.

    Seriously, re the vids... I can't be arsed because I know it's not necessary to move your head as much as you think. If cyclists honestly didn't check their blindspots before manoeuvring there'd be scores dead every day. You simply CANNOT manoeurve in fast flowing traffic on a bike without checking first. If you like (and you're in Dublin) wait for rush hour to pick up a bit, hop on the bike and see how long you last making lane changes without looking. (health insurance is advisable before trying this experiment).


  • #544
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,892 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    Canis Lupus wrote: »
    I'm in Australia. Get this. I can legally cycle on the footpath over here. Everytime I do from now on I'll think of you as I cycle along the footpath lashing out with my dlock at random people.

    Seriously, re the vids... I can't be arsed because I know it's not necessary to move your head as much as you think. If cyclists honestly didn't check their blindspots before manoeuvring there'd be scores dead every day. You simply CANNOT manoeurve in fast flowing traffic on a bike without checking first. If you like (and you're in Dublin) wait for rush hour to pick up a bit, hop on the bike and see how long you last making lane changes without looking. (health insurance is advisable before trying this experiment).


    Makes me wonder that if you are cycling in Australia why you are concerned about the way people ride here, illegally on the footpaths

    Why would you want to be lashing out at random people? To make up for the fact that you aren't breaking an Aussie law by riding on the footpath, strange indeed you southern hemisphere types, probably something to do with all those convicts from way back in Aussie history.

    Blind spots yeah well if you reckon you don't need to turn your head and sometime a portion of your upper torso to check all blind spots, better hope your luck holds, and you never star in a pantomime because the villains are always behind you.


  • #545
    MrCreosote
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,320 ✭✭✭MrCreosote


    Canis Lupus wrote: »
    as I cycle along the footpath lashing out with my dlock at random people.

    I know you love wearing the old budgie smugglers there in Oz, but there are still some laws about public exposure...

    What's that? A bike immobilisation device? Oh.


  • #546
    Canis Lupus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,880 ✭✭✭Canis Lupus


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    Makes me wonder that if you are cycling in Australia why you are concerned about the way people ride here, illegally on the footpaths

    Why would you want to be lashing out at random people? To make up for the fact that you aren't breaking an Aussie law by riding on the footpath, strange indeed you southern hemisphere types, probably something to do with all those convicts from way back in Aussie history.

    Blind spots yeah well if you reckon you don't need to turn your head and sometime a portion of your upper torso to check all blind spots, better hope your luck holds, and you never star in a pantomime because the villains are always behind you.

    I'm Irish :). Spent quite a few years in Dublin on a bike. I reckon I'm allowed to comment.

    Anyway, I imagine you'd die of self loathing if you ever touched a bike so perhaps you'll just have to take my word as a cyclist regarding blind spots rather than relying on YouTube videos.


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  • #547
    Canis Lupus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,880 ✭✭✭Canis Lupus


    MrCreosote wrote: »
    I know you love wearing the old budgie smugglers there in Oz, but there are still some laws about public exposure...

    What's that? A bike immobilisation device? Oh.

    It's so big it's forever catching in the spokes.... The lock that is...


  • #548
    opti0nal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 892 ✭✭✭opti0nal


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    no one has ever said that drivers don't sometimes speed
    Now, this is what is called 'minimising', when denial does not work, this is the fallback. It's far more than just 'sometimes' that motorists speed.

    And you miss the most important point that the consequences of motorist offending behaviour is far greater than that of cyclists. This is another behaviour of offenders - evasion of responsibility.


  • #549
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,282 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Car blind spot is a myth. If you have a blind spot in yor car you don't know how to set your mirrors.
    As for following lights the collisions with the Luas show us that cars break lights. If cyclists were as bad the Luas would hit more bikes than cars


  • #550
    MrCreosote
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,320 ✭✭✭MrCreosote


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    Car blind spot is a myth. If you have a blind spot in yor car you don't know how to set your mirrors.

    I can assure you there are big f***-off blind spots in front of my car's A pillars, and no jigging with the mirrors is going to cover them.


  • #551
    opti0nal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 892 ✭✭✭opti0nal


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    Car blind spot is a myth. If you have a blind spot in yor car you don't know how to set your mirrors.
    Some drivers don't look in their mirrors at all, or if they do, simply ignore what they see.


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  • #552
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,153 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    Ohhh I'm gonna be so rich, I just invented a cure for blind spots...
    Re read my post, it refers to the blind spots created by your front pillars. Unless you rock back and forth, they are there and your neck, no matter how big, won't change that :p If your overtaking safely you move into a cars blindspot during the overtake briefly. If someone is not looking regularly enough they will lose the other vehicle (happened to me twice where drivers pulled across me because they did not see me, without indicating). This is where they should have used their neck, moving from a stationary position, again as your told too in your driving test
    Now all I need do is get ALL traffic users to buy one, yes including cyclists, because a large portion of them have no idea about checking the blind spot behind them, proof, just check the myriad of helmet cam recordings and count the number that actually look behind themselves
    Myriad? I have only met one cyclist using one, he posts here actually (I had one for one commute. not worth the hassle) alot are fixed to the chest so won't show movement at all. Those connected to the helmets, everytime you see it dip down slightly and slightly to the left or right, that is a cyclist looking behind and covering all of that side and completely behind them. I can cover 360 degee with a 45degree turn each side while moving. Bikes that leave you in a more upright position require you to turn your neck about 85 degrees.
    Canis Lupus wrote: »
    Weird... From a personal perspective when driving and cycling I always see cyclists check their blindspots before making a manoeuvre... I know you like trolling cyclists but there wouldn't be many cyclists on the road if we didn't check our blindspots before manoeurving.
    Just like any vehicle users, there are some who don't, very few though for the obvious reasons you point out.


  • #553
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,127 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    The point being what? that motorists break the law there, what has that to do with the cyclists disregard of the law
    You seem to think that the vast majority of motorists are law abiding when the opposite can easily be demonstrated. One also has to wonder that, if motor vehicles were unregistered, how many more motorists would break the law.

    I obey the rules when cycling and I agree that many cyclists don't but it's no higher than the amount of motorists who don't. Most of us cyclists are also motorists so we see it from both sides, unlike those who only drive.

    I have a full, clean, unrestricted driving licence in all 14 categories and have driven all types of vehicles on public roads over the past 25 years. I don't recall any cyclist ever putting me in danger but motorists have lots of times. I've been involved in two motor accidents, neither of which I was responsible for.

    In the past year I have been hospitilised twice following cycling accidents, breaking 3 bones in the second accident. These accidents were totally caused by motorists acting illegally.

    You clearly have a different perspective but I suspect you don't cycle. Why not try it and see things differently. A fe years ago a motorist posted a thread on the cycling forum relating to cyclists and cycle lanes. He subsequently took up cycling and posted back recently to say that he cannot understand how cyclists have been so patient with motorists for so long.

    I see cyclists acting like morons every day but they tend to get noticed more than the law abiding cyclist.


  • #554
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,053 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    Stones, Glass houses tbh.

    In that survey of pedestrian accidents at red lights, 71% caused by drivers, 4% by cyclists.


  • #555
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    This nonsense might end today, thank god. Someone started a thread on taxi drivers this morning that might draw Spook away from this one.


  • #556
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,053 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    Car blind spot is a myth. If you have a blind spot in yor car you don't know how to set your mirrors.
    As for following lights the collisions with the Luas show us that cars break lights. If cyclists were as bad the Luas would hit more bikes than cars

    Everything as blind spots. Humans only have a limited field of vision, if you are looking in a mirror, you are not looking forward. You are looking right, you are not looking left. If you are looking in the distance you might not see something right in front of you.

    Also as there's vastly more cars than bikes, you take no account of that.


  • #557
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,053 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    This nonsense might end today, thank god. Someone started a thread on taxi drivers this morning that might draw Spook away from this one.

    Oh please link. I need to find out why the indicators don't work on taxi's, or normal lane changing doesn't apply.


  • #558
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    BostonB wrote: »
    Oh please link. I need to find out why the indicators don't work on taxi's, or normal lane changing doesn't apply.

    Don't you know, the yellow sign on the roof has the equivalent power of a light bar atop a garda car.


  • #559
    Stark
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 21,237 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    This nonsense might end today, thank god. Someone started a thread on taxi drivers this morning that might draw Spook away from this one.

    Deadly stuff. Let's see how he likes blatant generalisations and unsubstantiated soapboxing now.
    BostonB wrote:
    Oh please link. I need to find out why the indicators don't work on taxi's, or normal lane changing doesn't apply.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056877905

    It's about double jobbing at the moment but that doesn't mean the thread can't be successfully derailed with irrelevant stories of taxi drivers breaking laws.


  • #560
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,282 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    BostonB wrote: »

    Everything as blind spots. Humans only have a limited field of vision, if you are looking in a mirror, you are not looking forward. You are looking right, you are not looking left. If you are looking in the distance you might not see something right in front of you.

    Also as there's vastly more cars than bikes, you take no account of that.
    Looking one way and not another is not a blind spot. It is simply not looking.

    According to some every cyclist is breaking most if not all lights. Given that claim the luas would hit cyclists all the time. The amount of cyclists shouldn't make a difference if cyclists were as dangerous as some claim. They obviously aren't while cars obviously are and also breaking lights.
    The delays in traffic caused by such accidents is much more than any bicycle.


  • #561
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,053 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    Still your comparison about Luas accidents was invalid. There's easier ways to make the point about breaking lights. Not that most people baiting that trap are genuinely interested anything other than a rant.

    The point about a blind spot, is you are taking as given that a driver should be able to see you. That's a wrong and dangerous assumption. Its given as dogma by many on the cycling forum.


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  • #562
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,282 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    BostonB wrote: »
    Still your comparison about Luas accidents was invalid. There's easier ways to make the point about breaking lights. Not that most people baiting that trap are genuinely interested anything other than a rant.

    The point about a blind spot, is you are taking as given that a driver should be able to see you. That's a wrong and dangerous assumption. Its given as dogma by many on the cycling forum.
    No baited trap, clear indication to an exaggeration of cyclists death wish breaking lights.
    Cyclists don't take it as a given cars see them. We know they aren't looking for us it doesn't make it a blind spot. I never assume a driver can see me. My personal pet hate is drivers who don't stop fully and try to creep out on to the road. How can I be sure I am seen? I have to give a wide birth with traffic behind me. So I have to look behind me so I can check it is clear to avoid the obstacle in front. It is why I have mirrors on my bike.


  • #563
    derb12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 572 ✭✭✭derb12


    If we all had to cycle around across a city in rush hour traffic as part of getting our driving licences a lot of the non-sensical self-righteous anti-cyclist rhetoric would simply disappear.
    Could any poster who has criticised cyclists on this thread for going through red lights illegally honestly say that they always wait for the green man when they are crossing a road as a pedestrian?
    Why is such vitriol reserved for cyclists?


  • #564
    Mycroft H
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,306 ✭✭✭Mycroft H


    derb12 wrote: »
    Why is such vitriol reserved for cyclists?

    Because we don't sit in traffic like gimps.


  • #565
    Canis Lupus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,880 ✭✭✭Canis Lupus


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    No baited trap, clear indication to an exaggeration of cyclists death wish breaking lights.
    Cyclists don't take it as a given cars see them. We know they aren't looking for us it doesn't make it a blind spot. I never assume a driver can see me. My personal pet hate is drivers who don't stop fully and try to creep out on to the road. How can I be sure I am seen? I have to give a wide birth with traffic behind me. So I have to look behind me so I can check it is clear to avoid the obstacle in front. It is why I have mirrors on my bike.

    That's not Euro rules compliant.


  • #566
    Jester252
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,533 ✭✭✭Jester252


    BostonB wrote: »
    Stones, Glass houses tbh.

    In that survey of pedestrian accidents at red lights, 71% caused by drivers, 4% by cyclists.
    I guess the other 25% are the pedesrtian themselves?


  • #567
    Canis Lupus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,880 ✭✭✭Canis Lupus


    Jester252 wrote: »
    I guess the other 25% are the pedesrtian themselves?

    It's cats actually. Terrible on the road so they are.


  • #568
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,053 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    No baited trap, clear indication to an exaggeration of cyclists death wish breaking lights.
    Cyclists don't take it as a given cars see them. We know they aren't looking for us it doesn't make it a blind spot. I never assume a driver can see me. My personal pet hate is drivers who don't stop fully and try to creep out on to the road. How can I be sure I am seen? I have to give a wide birth with traffic behind me. So I have to look behind me so I can check it is clear to avoid the obstacle in front. It is why I have mirrors on my bike.

    If they are blind to you its a moot point.

    Like the cyclist in the first post. Flying down the inside of traffic, not looking for cars turning into a petrol station, and the OP, unable to see up the cycle lane due to queued traffic.


  • #569
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,053 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    Jester252 wrote: »
    I guess the other 25% are the pedesrtian themselves?

    I think 14% were motorcyclists. I assume the full breakdown is in the PDF.


  • #570
    kylith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,744 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    derb12 wrote: »
    If we all had to cycle around across a city in rush hour traffic as part of getting our driving licences a lot of the non-sensical self-righteous anti-cyclist rhetoric would simply disappear.
    Could any poster who has criticised cyclists on this thread for going through red lights illegally honestly say that they always wait for the green man when they are crossing a road as a pedestrian?
    Why is such vitriol reserved for cyclists?

    I've often thought that it should be a prerequestite of a driving licence to have to cycle for a period of time beforehand, to make you aware of cyclists, how they're likely to behave, and how fragile they are.


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  • #571
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,282 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    BostonB wrote: »

    If they are blind to you its a moot point.

    Like the cyclist in the first post. Flying down the inside of traffic, not looking for cars turning into a petrol station, and the OP, unable to see up the cycle lane due to queued traffic.
    The drive has already admitted he was at fault. If you can't see the way you aren't meant to go on. You also added your own version of events.
    Drivers should be looking is the point. Generally you will find cyclist assume drives can't see them. You effectively have cyclists having to second guess cars a lot.


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