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why do people use 1m reasons to not protest instead of 1 decision to do it??

24

Comments

  • #32
    Pumpkinseeds
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,635 ✭✭✭Pumpkinseeds


    I think it's because people know that their protests, broadly speaking, won't make a damn bit of difference to the government.


  • #33
    G Power
    Closed Accounts Posts: 559 ✭✭✭G Power


    Pumpkinseeds wrote: »
    I think it's because people know that their protests, broadly speaking, won't make a damn bit of difference to the government.

    it wont if 4,450,000 people leave the rest to try change things on their own!!

    the government are pi$$in themselves right now and will continue to not need to know the price of a litre of milk or petrol, unlike us divided and conquered serfs


  • #34
    G Power
    Closed Accounts Posts: 559 ✭✭✭G Power


    Fr_Dougal wrote: »
    25,000 Trade Union members marched in Dublin today. Be janey it looks as if they aren't going to be a pushover in these Croke Park negotiations.

    according to boyd barret there were 100k up there :eek::eek:

    i dont believe him for one minute!!


  • #35
    G Power
    Closed Accounts Posts: 559 ✭✭✭G Power


    Adyx wrote: »
    Thanks a million for the time-wasting, hand-wringing, rhetoric and traffic disruption.

    so in my op and after i describe the level of denial in this country to be of alcoholic proportions you admit the only time you ever attended a protest with your mates, you actually thought ye were all going drinking!!

    my point personified :pac:


  • #36
    Banjo String
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,380 ✭✭✭✭Banjo String


    G Power wrote: »
    so there's not been one protest in ireland that you'd agree with??

    Afaik, she's German.

    (everything's going to plan so.)


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  • #37
    ballygowan1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 357 ✭✭ballygowan1


    People don't like marching for the unions. Any of these protests I have seen have been organised and promoted by the unions. People will not commit if they see this. The unions have the country the way it is. Simple as that


  • #38
    BBDBB
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,899 ✭✭✭✭BBDBB


    I disagree with you OP

    but


    meh


  • #39
    ballygowan1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 357 ✭✭ballygowan1


    I work in a large organisation and most people had the same question. "Who is organising the march?" When they heard the unions all of the said no way.

    Who wants to be seen marching with the unions and holding a banner with siptu etc written on it?


  • #40
    cml387
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,425 ✭✭✭cml387


    G Power wrote: »
    it wont if 4,450,000 people leave the rest to try change things on their own!!

    the government are pi$$in themselves right now and will continue to not need to know the price of a litre of milk or petrol, unlike us divided and conquered serfs

    You see, in the end we vote. Democracy is the worst system of government in the world, until you look at the alternatives.

    I notice that the "Arab Spring", people in the streets blah blah has achieved nothing other than anarchy.:

    Tunisia

    Egypt

    Syria


  • #41
    Czarcasm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    Because the majority of people believe protesting to be a pointless exercise when the government ignores the electorate in favor of being told what to do by Germany.

    If you want to change something, you don't start from the top down- you work from the ground up!


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  • #42
    Riddle101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,669 ✭✭✭Riddle101


    I don't know about 1 million excuses. But the reason I don't attend protests, is because I know nothing will happen. We can bash and scream all we like, but in reality we never do achieve anything from protesting. What did the the Occupy Dame street movement do? What did all the other protests that happened since the Recession started do? Nothing. I don't know, maybe Irish people are just not aggressive enough but generally when there is a protest it usually ends the same way. With everyone going home and moaning, but life will continue on with nothing changed.


  • #43
    BASHIR
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 554 ✭✭✭BASHIR


    I just don't feel that the Austerity measures are affecting me all that badly to be honest. I also believe the measures are a step in the right direction for Ireland. Of course I don't agree with some of the cuts mainly healthcare related but I may be a little selfish here as they are not affecting me or my family directly.

    That's my reason for not attending, take from it whatever you like. But stop generalising so much if want anyone to take you seriously.


  • #44
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,909 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    cml387 wrote: »
    You see, in the end we vote. Democracy is the worst system of government in the world, until you look at the alternatives.

    I notice that the "Arab Spring", people in the streets blah blah has achieved nothing other than anarchy.:

    Tunisia

    Egypt

    Syria
    Well what has it achieved? If you think what we're fed by English-speaking media tells half the story then you've your head in the clouds. Most of the Arab Spring wasn't about democracy, they were basically food riots, hence those "funny" pictures of baguettes as weapons and sliced-bread helmets. Thing haven't improved much since. When fundamentalists increase in popularity it's generally a fair assumption that things aren't great economically.


  • #45
    Fromthetrees
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,846 ✭✭✭Fromthetrees


    G Power wrote: »
    one analogy I've come up with from attending too many failed protests and hearing peoples excuses for not attending after is, it's a bit like the alcoholic who will use a multitude of reasons to keep drinking instead of making one decision to just do the right thing

    I think you're a little bit mixed up with what the point of a protest should be. You say you've been involved in so many 'failed protests'. The only protest that will ever have a chance of enacting any sort of real change is when the point of the protest has 1 reason.

    To me a broad anti austerity march feels akin to saying we're against balancing the books, that's the issue here, we simply have to get close to balancing our books. To me the march appears to be about raising taxes but not having water charges or a property tax, maintaining social welfare payments, maintaining public sector job numbers and pay, pro nationalising our oil and fisheries, burn the bondholders, borrow more money to fund services, keep open local hospitals, keep the household benefits package and free travel card for OAP's and it goes on and on until we're left with a few hundred people on over a million euro income to fund everything that everyone else wants.

    If there was a protest every Saturday for the rest of the year that was about maintaining children's allowance rates and raising back to school payments you truly could help influence government policy.
    Or if the Guards went out every week marching and protesting to maintain the forces pay and numbers then the government could very well look and listen. If these two protests went ahead I would support each one of them separately as best I can.

    Even if you had a pro business march that said if the government did x, y and z to help small and medium businesses create more jobs I could see the merits in having one.

    The only thing we have a real choice over is how we get to balancing the books.


  • #46
    Sinfonia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭Sinfonia


    G Power wrote: »
    so, how are every single one of your family, friends, neighbours etc doing?? be honest with yourself, write all their names down and really look at their situations. are you that selfish that you will watch so so many suffer and not give a **** simply because you yourself are one of the lucky ones??
    Here's where your logic is massively flawed.
    You can't scorn everyone/anyone else for being selfish without being accused of hypocrisy, for two reasons:
    1) Your position is selfish by definition, because you can't be satisfied by other people disagreeing with your position, or otherwise showing ambivalence or insouciance toward it.
    2) Unless you have attended every protest for every cause ever, you are cherry-picking your preferred causes, which is a matter of subjectivity, thus other people may not feel about it as you do.


  • #47
    cml387
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,425 ✭✭✭cml387


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Well what has it achieved? If you think what we're fed by English-speaking media tells half the story then you've your head in the clouds. Most of the Arab Spring wasn't about democracy, they were basically food riots, hence those "funny" pictures of baguettes as weapons and sliced-bread helmets. Thing haven't improved much since. When fundamentalists increase in popularity it's generally a fair assumption that things aren't great economically.


    I didn't make my point very well. What I meant to say was that the popular uprising that characterised the Arab spring has done nothing to improve conditions, in some cases made things far worse.


  • #48
    G Power
    Closed Accounts Posts: 559 ✭✭✭G Power


    ballygowan1 wrote: »
    People don't like marching for the unions. Any of these protests I have seen have been organised and promoted by the unions. People will not commit if they see this. The unions have the country the way it is. Simple as that

    us holding nobody to account is why the crazies know they can get away with daylight robbery


  • #49
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,909 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    cml387 wrote: »
    I didn't make my point very well. What I meant to say was that the popular uprising that characterised the Arab spring has done nothing to improve conditions, in some cases made things far worse.

    Sorry, I thought you were using "blah blah" to dismiss people in the street complaining.


  • #50
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,238 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    G Power wrote: »
    one analogy I've come up with from attending too many failed protests and hearing peoples excuses for not attending after is, it's a bit like the alcoholic who will use a multitude of reasons to keep drinking instead of making one decision to just do the right thing


    this is nonsense....

    this notion that people dont protest because of apathy.....

    I dont protest because I dont want to protest.......its nothing to do with apathy.

    I've got better things to do with my life thanks all the same.

    And to hear that union today pretending there were 100,000 people there when the guards were saying there were 20,000......pathetic.

    20,000 people.....out of 4000000 people in the country......thats 1 in every 2000 people decided to protest today......would the unions not take a message from that?


  • #51
    hmmm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,192 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    People don't join protests they don't agree with. It's a bit sad to call people apathetic just because they don't agree with you, you have a lot of growing up to do.


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  • #52
    G Power
    Closed Accounts Posts: 559 ✭✭✭G Power


    cml387 wrote: »
    I didn't make my point very well. What I meant to say was that the popular uprising that characterised the Arab spring has done nothing to improve conditions, in some cases made things far worse.

    far worse for whom? cos the people of egypt dont matter to the yanks who sent the cia in 1.5 years before the spring to stir things up

    things maybe horrible for those on the ground in Egypt but to those who're heavily involved in africa right are flipping delighted the way everything is playing out there and globally


  • #53
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,909 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    this is nonsense....

    this notion that people dont protest because of apathy.....

    I dont protest because I dont want to protest.......its nothing to do with apathy.

    I've got better things to do with my life thanks all the same.

    And to hear that union today pretending there were 100,000 people there when the guards were saying there were 20,000......pathetic.

    20,000 people.....out of 4000000 people in the country......thats 1 in every 2000 people decided to protest today......would the unions not take a message from that?
    I agree with you but I can't let bad maths go past :P


  • #54
    looksee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 31,696 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    I might feel quite strongly about an issue, but the protests that are organised do not necessarily reflect the angle that I would wish to support. In most cases it is organised by an association that I do not, overall, support, even though in a specific case I might agree with the particular argument.

    The op seems to be suggesting that if everyone agreed with him about the efficacy of protests, and joined each and every movement that supports his point of view, everything would be sorted! Sorry, OP, but not protesting can be just as much of an expression of political opinion as protesting.There are the totally apathetic on one side, and the rent-a-crowd rabble on the other, but apart from these, there is a body of opinion on either side and the opinions of the non-protesters are just as valid as those of the protestors.


  • #55
    G Power
    Closed Accounts Posts: 559 ✭✭✭G Power


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    And to hear that union today pretending there were 100,000 people there when the guards were saying there were 20,000......pathetic.

    20,000 people.....out of 4000000 people in the country......thats 1 in every 2000 people decided to protest today......would the unions not take a message from that?

    it worse than that, there's actually more than 4,500,000 here and it wasnt the flipping unions that needed to be sent any message today!!

    ah well that's your excuse for not going, highly original that is :eek:


  • #56
    tenton
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 87 ✭✭tenton


    it was the people marching today who f****d up the country in the first place - the public sector. They doubled the public service wage and pension bill in the space of ten years, and the top public servants caused the mess by bad regulation, poor government, poor management of the economy, poor work in the central bank, poor work in the dept of finance etc. And now they are all on big pensions. No way would i join those public sector people marching.


  • #57
    Death and Taxes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,775 ✭✭✭Death and Taxes


    G Power wrote: »
    it worse than that, there's actually more than 4,500,000 here and it wasnt the flipping unions that needed to be sent any message today!!

    ah well that's your excuse for not going, highly original that is :eek:
    Cop on and accept that ordinary people dont believe in or want to be associated with the extremist agenda of Siptu/Eirigi/ULA etc
    The marches are a joke and rightly treated as a joke by the overwheming majority of the population.
    The low turnout was a victory for common sense.


  • #58
    G Power
    Closed Accounts Posts: 559 ✭✭✭G Power


    WileyCoyote wrote: »
    Cop on and accept that ordinary people dont believe in or want to be associated with the extremist agenda of Siptu/Eirigi/ULA etc
    The marches are a joke and rightly treated as a joke by the overwheming majority of the population.
    The low turnout was a victory for common sense.

    so why don't people go and completely outnumber them then??


  • #59
    Death and Taxes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,775 ✭✭✭Death and Taxes


    G Power wrote: »
    so why don't people go and completely outnumber them then??

    They did by refusing to participate, duh!


  • #60
    G Power
    Closed Accounts Posts: 559 ✭✭✭G Power


    looksee wrote: »
    I might feel quite strongly about an issue, but the protests that are organised do not necessarily reflect the angle that I would wish to support. In most cases it is organised by an association that I do not, overall, support, even though in a specific case I might agree with the particular argument.

    The op seems to be suggesting that if everyone agreed with him about the efficacy of protests, and joined each and every movement that supports his point of view, everything would be sorted! Sorry, OP, but not protesting can be just as much of an expression of political opinion as protesting.There are the totally apathetic on one side, and the rent-a-crowd rabble on the other, but apart from these, there is a body of opinion on either side and the opinions of the non-protesters are just as valid as those of the protestors.

    so your excuse for not going today or to other protest is because of angles and you completely ignore the bigger issue!!

    jebus wept


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  • #61
    cml387
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,425 ✭✭✭cml387


    WileyCoyote wrote: »
    They did by refusing to participate, duh!


    And I think we can all agree it was a big success:D


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