Poisoning/Shooting of Birds of Prey - Please read guidelines in first post

Mod Post: Folks let's all be clever enough to know not to tar all farmers or any other group with the one brush after this horrible new. This is not aimed at anyone who has posted since the news broke, and is fair warning to anyone who wants to stir a row from either side of the debate.

Regardless of who is doing this the IFA and hunting groups in Ireland are doing themselves no favours by refusing to cooperate in this issue!

steddyeddy wrote: »

Regardless of who is doing this the IFA and hunting groups in Ireland are doing themselves no favours by refusing to cooperate in this issue!

I'm not a member of any hunting group, but know many who are. They would dearly love to catch and report the culprits as these poisonings are tarring them all with the same brush.

Half-cocked wrote: »

I'm not a member of any hunting group, but know many who are. They would dearly love to catch and report the culprits as these poisonings are tarring them all with the same brush.

I agree but I think hunting groups and the IFA would eliminate the possibilty of being tarred by the one brush if they were more vocal against acts like this. This crap has gone on too long for us to accept anecdotal evidence that most hunters or farmers are against it. I dont find it credible that someone doesnt know who these people are.

recedite wrote: »

It was a common practice for many years to leave poisoned lamb carcasses out on hillsides at this time of year, to catch whatever predators/scavengers might be around. The practice became illegal in 2010 when John Gormley brought in a new law to say if any meat based poison is laid, it must be covered over. So foxes and rats would still get at it, but not birds.
A minority are choosing to ignore the law, sadly.

"A person shall not place, cause to be placed or permit to be placed or
have with him or her any poisoned or anaesthetic bait that is animal or contains animal substance or other animal derivative in any place to capture, kill, poison, stupefy, anaesthetise, harm or injure or where it is likely to capture, kill, poison, stupefy, anaesthetise, harm or injure:
(i) any species referred to in Article 1 of the Birds Directive, or
(ii) any species of wild fauna listed in Annexes IV(a) and V(a) to the
Habitats Directive,except in accordance with a licence."

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2010/en/si/0481.html

All meat based poisons have been banned. Only bait box and indoor rodenticides are legal now under this law and laws covering the licencing of pesticides. This means that Foxes,Crows etc. can only legally be controlled via shooting and trapping.

In any case both eagle projects look likely to fail thanx to the actions of handfull of muck savages who don't give a toss about wildlife or the reputation of Irish farming etc.

steddyeddy wrote: »

The thing about it aswell birdnuts is that you are the responsible voice of hunting and farming. There should be more voices like yours and voices like yours are not getting the support they deserve.

To be fair the NARGC etc. has always come out strongly condemning any incidents of BOP shootings etc. The problem here is that a tiny minority can do a massive amount of damage to fragile populations of certain raptors and the reputation of certain sectors. Its becoming clear that there are certain black spots in the country when it comes to poisoning in particular and I know that the people behind the eagle projects are looking to compile a countrywide map of all wildlife(and dog) poisoning incidents so as these areas can be targeted by the relevant agencies. Sadly its already clear that Kerry and many other parts of the west appear to be have more than their fair share of scumbags who engage in these type of disgusting practices.

Eithier way its makes the country out to be a pretty primitive place in terms of wildlife conservation given that we are still dealing with such issues in 2013:(

Did anyone hear the idiot on Gerorge Hook's program yesterday describing eagles as vermin? That's the calibre of people we are dealing with.

Birdnuts wrote: »

To be fair the NARGC etc. has always come out strongly condemning any incidents of BOP shootings etc. The problem here is that a tiny minority can do a massive amount of damage to fragile populations of certain raptors and the reputation of certain sectors. Its becoming clear that there are certain black spots in the country when it comes to poisoning in particular and I know that the people behind the eagle projects are looking to compile a countrywide map of all wildlife(and dog) poisoning incidents so as these areas can be targeted by the relevant agencies. Sadly its already clear that Kerry and many other parts of the west appear to be have more than their fair share of scumbags who engage in these type of disgusting practices.

Eithier way its makes the country out to be a pretty primitive place in terms of wildlife conservation given that we are still dealing with such issues in 2013:(

And do you have to have signs displayed "Land Poisoned" if you are trying to poison rats?
I was just watching Ear to the ground on RTE 1 there, and they were at a farm that had signs of "Poisoned Land" placed on it. I assumed that they were targeting foxes, and if they are I am hoping they are using the covering the poison bait technique.

snowstreams wrote: »

And do you have to have signs displayed "Land Poisoned" if you are trying to poison rats?
I was just watching Ear to the ground on RTE 1 there, and they were at a farm that had signs of "Poisoned Land" placed on it. I assumed that they were targeting foxes, and if they are I am hoping they are using the covering the poison bait technique.

Under the current law you can't target foxes with any poison bait as there is no product licenced for such purposes and all meat based poisons have banned. The new legislation I referred to earlier also makes it illegal to poison foxes The only poisons licensed/legal now are specifically for rodents and this bait must be placed eitheir indoors or in bait boxes as per the conditions of the license. The Pesticide Control Service or PCS is the government body that issues/controls such licenses.

As for the sign above, it looks pretty old and probably dates back to before the laws were changed in late 2010.

Those 'Land Poisoned' signs are often put up when there is no poison. They are to deter people letting their dogs wander onto land, also to discourage poachers using their gundogs. Kind of like those speed camera signs on the roads when there aren't any cameras, it still causes some motorists to slow down!

recedite wrote: »

What you have there is a link to the same legislation I already quoted.
Its signed off by John Gormley in Oct 2010, and I'm not aware of any other legislation on the subject since then. Show me where it says foxes cannot be legally poisoned with poisoned meat?
In fact, the only mammals protected are listed in Annexes IV(a) and V(a) to the Habitats Directive , which includes wolves and pine martens, but not foxes.
In practical terms, it would be difficult to devise a bait box that a fox could access, but a pine marten could not. But until someone actually kills say, an eagle or a pine marten, they are not acting illegally by poisoning lamb carcasses, so long as the bait is covered in some way.

In addition to all meat based poisons being illegal, all "poisons" ie. pesticides have to be licenced for use by the PCS as I outlined in a previous post. The conditions of this license specifies how this poison is to be used and what are the target species. Since 2010 no products have been licenced for use against foxes. Therefore it is illegal to poison foxes. In addition it is an offence to leave livestock carcasses on ones land under legislation that came into affect after the BSE and Scrapie outbreaks in sheep and cattle in the late 1990's. I have had both these facts confirmed to me by both my local NPWS ranger and my REPS planner who oversees my small holding in the West.

recedite wrote: »

You are adding 2+2 together and getting 5.
All that may or may not add up (indirectly) to the your conclusion, but it has nothing to do with the legislation you quoted. The practical difficulty of poisoning foxes without also poisoning pine martens is probably more of a legal ban, but its still very vague and indirect.

The legislation I quoted outlines how the use of poisoned meat is now banned in all circumstances, including the use of lamb carcasses , which you earlier claimed was not the case. I then outlined the system under which pesticides are licenced in this country to clear up any lingering doubt on the subject. I really don't see how any one could be under any doubt that the use of poison against foxes is now totally illegal.