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Why dont Irish Rail recognise Bagnalstown?

  • 08-02-2013 01:37PM
    #1
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,069 ✭✭✭✭


    Was watching an episode of the very enjoyable "Great Railway journeys" series the other night on BBC Four.
    In this series Michael Portillo retraces railway journeys in Britain & Ireland as bescribed by Bradshaws 1863 railway guide.

    One of the places mentioned is Bagnasltown and Michael sets out to find Bagnalstown and see if its changed much since 1863, he then discovers that it no longer exists on the Irish Rail map, so he gets off at the closest destination which is Muine Bheag, he then meets a local councillor and asks "So where is Bagnalstown" to which the councillor replies "this is it" you're here Michael! this is the town of Bagnalstown as recognised by everybody (except Irish Rail) who decided to ignore a recent public vote on the name of the town, and name the train station in Irish as 'Muine Bheag' instead of Bagnalstown.

    Quite confusing for Irish and foreign tourists, I would have thought.


«1

Comments

  • #2
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,233 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    LordSutch wrote: »
    Bradshaws 1863 railway guide. Quite confusing for Irish and foreign tourists, I would have thought.

    Anybody relying on a colonial era guidebook that is 150 years old and includes towns named after thieving plantation era landgrabbers deserves to be left confused. :D

    Did Portillo get to Parsonstown, the site of the first stolen British railway yet??? :p


  • #3
    goingnowhere
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,652 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    Its not unique, Dun Laoghaire is known only by its Irish name.

    Don't fancy the english name, Kingstown...


  • #4
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,069 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    If you read post#1 again you will see that the locals recently had a vote on the name of the town, re whether to retain the towns name as Bagnalstown, or to rename the town with an Irish equivalent - So the votes were cast, and the modern day locals voted overwhelmingly to keep the name as Bagnalstown.

    ... and yet Irish Rail ignored this recent vote (according to the coulcillor) and created an Irish name for the station 'Muine Bheag' anyway which the locals disagree with. Irish Rail seem to be a law onto themselves on this one.

    Echoes of the Dingle fiasco if you ask me.


  • #5
    im invisible
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,372 ✭✭✭im invisible


    What does Muine Bheag even mean?


  • #6
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,069 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    exactly.


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  • #7
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    LordSutch wrote: »
    If you read post#1 again you will see that the locals recently had a vote on the name of the town, re whether to retain the towns name as Bagnalstown, or to rename the town with an Irish equivalent - So the votes were cast, and the modern day locals voted overwhelmingly to keep the name as Bagnalstown.

    ... and yet Irish Rail ignored this recent vote (according to the coulcillor) and created an Irish name for the station 'Muine Bheag' anyway which the locals disagree with.

    Irish Rail seem to be a law onto themselves on this one.
    It was only recently that they changed station names from Irish to English, Dúrlas springs to mind, and then for years Edgesworthstown was named Mostrim after the townland/crossroads where the station is located.


  • #8
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,069 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    The gist of my point is that Bagnalstown is known as Bagenalstown by everybody except Irish Rail,
    who recently renamed the station Muine Bheag against the wishes of the Townspeople.


  • #9
    gobnaitolunacy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,073 ✭✭✭gobnaitolunacy


    im invisible wrote: »
    What does Muine Bheag even mean?

    'Small thicket' ....hardly the most inspiring thing for a town to be named after!

    CIE tried to popularise Rath Luirc/An Rath to the exclusion of Charleville and that didn't catch on, likewise Mostrim/Edgeworthstown.
    Oddly enough, other placesnames like Maryborough are pretty much extinct now.


  • #10
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,069 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Bagenalstown is a town on the western fringe of County Carlow. Built in the 1700s on the River Barrow by Lord Walter Bagenal, the town was originally based on Versailles in France. Today, with a population of 3,000 people, it offers a growing number of services and facilities, boosted by the easy access from its location just off the main Dublin - Waterford road and rail routes.

    By train

    Bagenalstown is served by the Dublin - Waterford rail route. It is about 90 minutes from these cities and 15 minutes from Carlow town.
    Iarnrod Eireann (Ireland's rail operator) use "Muine Bheag" as the station name. http://wikitravel.org/en/Bagenalstown


  • #11
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,233 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    I just call it Muine Bheag or translate that to "Small Hedgefund" if required. How complicated is that??
    I honestly don't know which is the more edifying, Small Hedgefund Carlow or Carlow Small Hedgefund.....mmmmm thinks.??!!??

    But relying on a 150 year old guidebook toted around by a failed Thatcher era conservative politician to anchor a thread giving out about CIE.....not my style. Even Foggy wouldn't go off one one over that and we ALL know Foggy can fair manage them. :)


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  • #12
    schemingbohemia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,606 ✭✭✭schemingbohemia


    It's been Muine Bheag for ages though hasn't it? Not a recent development as you're claiming.


  • #13
    Emme
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,051 ✭✭✭Emme


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    Anybody relying on a colonial era guidebook that is 150 years old and includes towns named after thieving plantation era landgrabbers deserves to be left confused. :D

    I thought Bagenalstown was named after Lord Bagenal Harvey, who fought with the Irish rebels :confused:


  • #14
    gobnaitolunacy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,073 ✭✭✭gobnaitolunacy


    Emme wrote: »
    I thought Bagenalstown was named after Lord Bagenal Harvey, who fought with the Irish rebels :confused:

    Founded by his cousin, Walter, who changed from Catholic to Protestant to hold onto his estates.


  • #15
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,069 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    schemingbohemia wrote: »
    It's been Muine Bheag for ages though hasn't it? Not a recent development as you're claiming.

    Well this is what others had to say about it from a 2009 thread . . . .

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61630838&postcount=5

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61623661&postcount=1


  • #16
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,233 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Bring back Queenstown , named after Queen Viictoria and Maryborough....named after Queen Mary....while we are at it, along with Queens County what Maryborough was capital of for 100s of years.

    And what is the Proper English name for that Pesky "Portlaoise" anyway???? , I mean how dare Iarnród Éireann not show it. :p


  • #17
    noelfirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 660 ✭✭✭noelfirl


    There's an episode of this on BBC2 now, apparently last in series. Gricers need not apply, shots of 22k's only so far.


  • #18
    Adyx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,997 ✭✭✭Adyx


    LordSutch wrote: »
    Well this is what others had to say about it from a 2009 thread . . . .

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61630838&postcount=5

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61623661&postcount=1
    That doesn't suggest the station was recently renamed though. It's been announced as Muine Bheag on the train for as long as I can remember. And it's really not worth the hassle and expense of changing it now.


  • #19
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,233 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    This week, the Callander and_Oban Railway in Scotland and not Portillo.


  • #20
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,069 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Adyx wrote: »
    That doesn't suggest the station was recently renamed though. It's been announced as Muine Bheag on the train for as long as I can remember.

    Yeah, early or late 90s?

    Can't remember when the town voted to stay with Bagenalstown, but it was fairly recently, which is when Irish Rail decided to do their own thing!

    I will try and get the episode and post it here in due course, then you can see the farcical situation wherby (from a tourist point of view) all the
    guide books point to Bagenalstown, but then when you're on the train there is no mention of Bagenalstown, but just Muine Bheag :cool:

    As I said before, this really does have echoes of the Dingle/An Daingean fiasco > http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2f/Dingle-An_Daingean_graffiti.jpg


  • #21
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,055 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    If it was called Bagenalstown for years then there would be a campaign to use the irish name instead. Does the station signs have both names?


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  • #22
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,055 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    Bring back Queenstown , named after Queen Viictoria and Maryborough....named after Queen Mary....while we are at it, along with Queens County what Maryborough was capital of for 100s of years.

    And what is the Proper English name for that Pesky "Portlaoise" anyway???? , I mean how dare Iarnród Éireann not show it. :p

    Have you seen the station signs in Portlaoise? They are supposed to be bi-lingual but they are spelt the same :).


  • #23
    ThreeLineWhip
    Closed Accounts Posts: 473 ✭✭ThreeLineWhip


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    If it was called Bagenalstown for years then there would be a campaign to use the irish name instead. Does the station signs have both names?
    No. Irish only.


  • #24
    Julius Seizure
    Closed Accounts Posts: 459 ✭✭Julius Seizure


    What really grinds my gears is how it says it twice..


  • #25
    ThreeLineWhip
    Closed Accounts Posts: 473 ✭✭ThreeLineWhip


    Irish rail does have a fetish for Irish language names. Until the start of Arrow services Newbridge was only acknowledged by the railway as Droichead Nua.

    Also Maryborough survived until 1946 on the railways despite the name being dropped immediately on independence from Britain.


  • #26
    MrJoeSoap
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,117 ✭✭✭✭MrJoeSoap


    Never understood the whole Muine Bheag thing myself. One of the few stations I've ever seen without the English town name on the signs.
    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    Have you seen the station signs in Portlaoise? They are supposed to be bi-lingual but they are spelt the same :).

    And up until recently, Broombridge was quite literally referred to ás Gaeilge as Droichead na Scuab. It has since changed to Droichead Broome, since it was named after William Brougham and not an actual broom.

    You'd think that when they were renaming it, they would have spelled it as Brougham.


  • #27
    RevBlueJeans
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 672 ✭✭✭RevBlueJeans


    goingnowhere wrote: »
    Its not unique, Dun Laoghaire is known only by its Irish name.

    Don't fancy the english name, Kingstown...

    I allways call it Dunleary (Done-Leery) and thats the way 99% of people living there call it! Only RTÉ and a handful of language activists pronounce it Dún Laoghaire!

    Birr was known as Parsonstown and Dangean was known as Phillipstown (the river through it is still called the Phillipstown River).

    At least Dingle Co Kerry has had its rightfull name restored.


  • #28
    parsi
    Site Banned Posts: 5,904 ✭✭✭parsi


    MrJoeSoap wrote: »
    Never understood the whole Muine Bheag thing myself. One of the few stations I've ever seen without the English town name on the signs.



    And up until recently, Broombridge was quite literally referred to ás Gaeilge as Droichead na Scuab. It has since changed to Droichead Broome, since it was named after William Brougham and not an actual broom.

    You'd think that when they were renaming it, they would have spelled it as Brougham.

    Charleville used have:

    " An Rath / Rath Luirc "


  • #29
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,320 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    ThreeLineWhip wrote: »
    Irish rail does have a fetish for Irish language names. Until the start of Arrow services Newbridge was only acknowledged by the railway as Droichead Nua.

    Also Maryborough survived until 1946 on the railways despite the name being dropped immediately on independence from Britain.

    The Irish name probably takes precedence to be a constitutional pedant so perhaps they are right all along :)


  • #30
    ThreeLineWhip
    Closed Accounts Posts: 473 ✭✭ThreeLineWhip


    Droichead Nua is still the legal name of the town, but no one calls it that.


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  • #31
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,320 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    ThreeLineWhip wrote: »
    Droichead Nua is still the legal name of the town, but no one calls it that.

    Say way eveybody says Brayruit, Derry or Stab City? :D


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