The Gay Megathread (see mod note on post #2212)

Silvio.Dante · 06-02-2013 04:14PM

Gay 'marriage' is a very rare phenomenon. The vast majority of countries have no such concept in their legislative books.

I suggest we give it 50-75 year to see how it goes in countries where its been introduced and we see then if its for us or not...

Bannasidhe · 06-02-2013 04:16PM

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

Gay 'marriage' is a very rare phenomenon. The vast majority of countries have no such concept in their legislative books.

I suggest we give it 50-75 year to see how it goes in countries where its been introduced and we see then if its for us or not...

Like we waited to see if child protection was for 'us'?

Delirium · 06-02-2013 04:23PM

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

Gay 'marriage' is a very rare phenomenon. The vast majority of countries have no such concept in their legislative books.

I suggest we give it 50-75 year to see how it goes in countries where its been introduced and we see then if its for us or not...

What an awful idea for how to run a country.

JimiTime · 06-02-2013 06:51PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

So what exactly is your problem?

That children will be taught there are gay people, and that they are legally equal in every respect to straight people?

No. If gay marriage comes about, then telling students that gay marriage is there is not an issue. Trying to inculcate a child from kindergarten with an LGBT curriculum would be my issue in terms of education.

Homosexuality is not a disorder Jimi - no matter how much you want it to be. The fact that you see it in those terms speaks volumes about you, not homosexuality.

Just wondering, what do you think it says about me if I believe that a person who cannot reproduce with their desired partner, due to them being sexually attracted to people/things/beings that they are biologically incompatible with is some form of disorder?

Do you object to Sex Education?

Depends.

Do you think Sex Education should only discuss heterosexuality?

Again, it depends on the context.

and where do they learn that disgust?

No idea why I or those I mentioned were so repulsed as children. I understand efb's theory that due to it not being the norm in the vast, vast majority of peoples environments, that it is very out of the ordinary. I don't know if that explains the disgust though.

JimiTime · 06-02-2013 06:52PM

MrPudding wrote: »

It will be an actual marriage, why would there be a need to distinguish it?

MrP

Exactly.

06-02-2013 06:57PM

JimiTime wrote: »

No. If gay marriage comes about, then telling students that gay marriage is there is not an issue. Trying to inculcate a child from kindergarten with an LGBT curriculum would be my issue in terms of education.

Could you give us an example of a piece of educational material that would "inculcate" a child?

JimiTime wrote: »

Do you think Sex Education should only discuss heterosexuality?

Again, it depends on the context.

Say at the places in the curriculum where pupils are currently taught about sex. Should homosexuality be a part of that discussion? Should teachers acknowledge that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality?

JimiTime · 06-02-2013 06:57PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I thought their parents were pro-LGBT - yet they have 12 year olds who had never heard of homosexuality???

Why would you think they would know about such things at that age?

Bannasidhe · 06-02-2013 07:00PM

JimiTime wrote: »

Why would you think they would know about such things at that age?

'Such Things'? By that do you mean sex?

Bannasidhe · 06-02-2013 07:07PM

JimiTime wrote: »

No. If gay marriage comes about, then telling students that gay marriage is there is not an issue. Trying to inculcate a child from kindergarten with an LGBT curriculum would be my issue in terms of education.

In the interests of equality should all books that show any kind of family be removed from kindergardens (or even pre-schools since this is Ireland)? Or just the ones that depict family units you don't approve of?
Can we still have Heather has a Mommy? Or do you disapprove of single parent families too?

Just wondering, what do you think it says about me if I believe that a person who cannot reproduce with their desired partner, due to them being sexually attracted to people/things/beings that they are biologically incompatible with is some form of disorder?

I think it says you need to get a life and stop fretting about who consenting adults wish to have sex with.

Depends.

Again, it depends on the context.

Explain?

No idea why I or those I mentioned were so repulsed as children. I understand efb's theory that due to it not being the norm in the vast, vast majority of peoples environments, that it is very out of the ordinary. I don't know if that explains the disgust though.

Perhaps you have 'issues'. You do seem a bit obsessed tbh....

JimiTime · 06-02-2013 07:26PM

28064212 wrote: »

Could you give us an example of a piece of educational material that would "inculcate" a child?

I have already. Many times. It involves, from as young as kindergarten, books that imply how normal it is that kids have two 'daddies'. Cross-dressing and switching gender roles with a view to get them used to transvestitism, gender bending etc. Teachers being encouraged not to call students 'boys and girls' etc. Again, if you're interested, you should grab a copy of this

Say at the places in the curriculum where pupils are currently taught about sex.

When is it currently thought?

Should homosexuality be a part of that discussion?

I would have to see what it means for it to be 'part of the discussion'.

Should teachers acknowledge that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality?

No, I don't believe teachers should be telling students that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality.

Bannasidhe · 06-02-2013 07:29PM

JimiTime wrote: »

No, I don't believe teachers should be telling students that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality.

In that case do you want children to be taught there is something wrong with homosexuality?

JimiTime · 06-02-2013 07:29PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

'Such Things'? By that do you mean sex?

Partly, but mostly sexuality and all its intricacies.

Corkfeen · 06-02-2013 07:29PM

JimiTime wrote: »

Why would you think they would know about such things at that age?

I burst out laughing.

I finished primary school in 2003/2004 and there was not one child that didn't know what homosexuality was(from a rather young age). I don't understand why they shouldn't or wouldn't know 'such things', will their poor innocent minds be wrecked as a result?

JimiTime wrote: »

No, I don't believe teachers should be telling students that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality.

Bullying is an awful thing, you're reasoning would contribute to it within schools. You want to make it a taboo subject and that always ends badly with many victims as a result.

JimiTime · 06-02-2013 07:30PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

In that case do you want children to be taught there is something wrong with homosexuality?

No.

06-02-2013 07:37PM

JimiTime wrote: »

I have already. Many times. It involves, from as young as kindergarten, books that imply how normal it is that kids have two 'daddies'

That is normal

JimiTime wrote: »

When is it currently thought?

At various points. For example, in the CSPE syllabus

JimiTime wrote: »

No, I don't believe teachers should be telling students that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality.

So homosexual students should be thought nothing about their sexuality, while their heterosexual counterparts are learning vital information? In fact their sexuality should be totally ignored and not acknowledged?

aloyisious · 06-02-2013 07:47PM

JimiTime wrote: »

A very strong possibility. The fact that homosexuality only occurs in 3% of the population, and the amount of 2 'daddies' etc would be exceptionally rare, they will not see it in their lives, and so need the textbook to influence them into seeing these things as normal. The thing is, that I don't recall it being just, 'Oh thats unusual', when first seeing/hearing about it. It was a genuine revulsion, from ignorance I.E. I had never been told it was wrong, or told ANYTHING about it etc. Nor had my Nephews etc. In fact, I know many pro-LGBT folk who are still disgusted at it, but are simply, 'If thats what they're into, who am I.....etc'.

Do you think there is any chance that your nephews may have heard references from other people or sources about homosexuals (be it good or bad) outside school (let's say; not inculcation but casual reference). I'd in mind TV, Radio and print sources where there would be positive, negative and indifferent references to homosexuality.

Bannasidhe · 06-02-2013 07:50PM

JimiTime wrote: »

No.

Would you prefer teachers pretended it doesn't exist?

philologos · 06-02-2013 07:51PM

Bullying is awful. All one has to do is say stop bullying for any reason. Not just in LGBT issues. Schools need general anti-bullying policies which encompass sexuality but not only for sexuality.

JimiTime · 06-02-2013 07:53PM

Corkfeen wrote: »

I burst out laughing. I finished primary school in 2003/2004 and there was not one child that didn't know what homosexuality was(from a rather young age). I don't understand why they shouldn't or wouldn't know 'such things', will their poor innocent minds be wrecked as a result?

Sex is everywhere, so I'm not surprised. And yes, its an awful shame that their innocent minds are bombarded with sex and sexuality these days. Its certainly not a laughing matter to me. I certainly had an awareness of sex from a young age, but nothing like the nuances of sexuality etc.

Bannasidhe · 06-02-2013 07:53PM

philologos wrote: »

Bullying is awful. All one has to do is say stop bullying for any reason. Not just in LGBT issues. Schools need general anti-bullying policies which encompass sexuality but not only for sexuality.

Hard to stop bullying in schools when you have people insisting homosexuality is not 'normal' and teachers should not teach that it is 'normal'.

lazygal · 06-02-2013 07:57PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Hard to stop bullying in schools when you have people insisting homosexuality is not 'normal' and teachers should not teach that it is 'normal'.

And call books etc about it being normal propaganda.

JimiTime · 06-02-2013 08:00PM

aloyisious wrote: »

Do you think there is any chance that your nephews may have heard references from other people or sources about homosexuals (be it good or bad) outside school (let's say; not inculcation but casual reference). I'd in mind TV, Radio and print sources where there would be positive, negative and indifferent references to homosexuality.

Possibly, but their reaction suggested that it was something new to them. Even with myself, I would have seen movies that would have gay characters etc when I was younger, but it would have went over my head. I actually remember being very confused as a 4 year old, asking my dad why that girl on the telly was called Boy George

My dad just said it was actually a boy.

efb · 06-02-2013 08:04PM

Man I loved the A Team

JimiTime · 06-02-2013 08:05PM

28064212 wrote: »

That is normal

It is not normal. You may think that there is nothing wrong two gay men adopting kids, but it is far from normal.

At various points. For example, in the CSPE syllabus

Again, I'd have to see the specifics to give an opinion.

So homosexual students should be thought nothing about their sexuality, while their heterosexual counterparts are learning vital information? In fact their sexuality should be totally ignored and not acknowledged?

Could you tell me the vital things that students who are same sex attracted will be losing out on? Maybe I'm overlooking something.

Corkfeen · 06-02-2013 08:08PM

JimiTime wrote: »

Sex is everywhere, so I'm not surprised. And yes, its an awful shame that their innocent minds are bombarded with sex and sexuality these days. Its certainly not a laughing matter to me. I certainly had an awareness of sex from a young age, but nothing like the nuances of sexuality etc.

Knowing same sex relationships exist can hardly be classified as part of losing innocence as a result of being bombarded with sex....

JimiTime · 06-02-2013 08:10PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Hard to stop bullying in schools when you have people insisting homosexuality is not 'normal' and teachers should not teach that it is 'normal'.

Not at all. Firstly, teachers would simply not be getting into the politics of LGBT issues. Its not like they'll be telling students such things are not normal.

Second of all, you don't need to have a 'dont bully gingers', 'dont bully people with glasses', 'don't bully protestants', 'don't bully gays' etc policy. YOU SIMPLY NEED TO INSTILL THAT BULLYING IS WRONG!

06-02-2013 08:13PM

JimiTime wrote: »

It is not normal. You may think that there is nothing wrong two gay men adopting kids, but it is far from normal.

Same old semantic argument about "normal" ey? Very well, there is nothing wrong with it.

JimiTime wrote: »

Could you tell me the vital things that students who are same sex attracted will be losing out on? Maybe I'm overlooking something.

How about an acknowledgement that they exist? That there is nothing wrong with them? That it's ok for them to be who they are? For them to be told that, contrary to what bigots, bullies and homophobes of all stripes may tell them, they are just as human as anybody else, and that they are not some subspecies that can be treated differently?

JimiTime · 06-02-2013 08:14PM

Corkfeen wrote: »

Knowing same sex relationships exist can hardly be classified as part of losing innocence as a result of being bombarded with sex....

What did a same sex relationship mean to you as a child if you don't mind me asking? And do you remember finding out, and understanding what it meant, for the first time? It would be interesting to see what the generations that followed my owns experiences are.

Corkfeen · 06-02-2013 08:24PM

JimiTime wrote: »

What did a same sex relationship mean to you as a child if you don't mind me asking? And do you remember finding out, and understanding what it meant, for the first time? It would be interesting to see what the generations that followed my owns experiences are.

I was aware of them and didn't really think about them in any detail. I didn't find them to be abhorrent or abnormal, although I was naturally supposed to according to your self.

lazygal · 06-02-2013 08:31PM

JimiTime wrote: »

What did a same sex relationship mean to you as a child if you don't mind me asking? And do you remember finding out, and understanding what it meant, for the first time? It would be interesting to see what the generations that followed my owns experiences are.

My parents had several gay friends in long term relationships and as a child I was baffled as to why they couldn't get married like my parent's were. It meant two people who loved eachother and lived together and went on holidays and brought over yummy food when they came for dinner. You might even call it NORMAL.

The Gay Megathread (see mod note on post #2212)

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