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AGSI members to march at Sat anti-austerity march whoop!!

135

Comments

  • #62
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    G Power wrote: »
    ok right, read closely ok

    whatever gave you the impression that the garda were going to protest for the legalisation of cannabis medically and recreationally and also to the have the oil and gas giveaway renegotiated??

    as far as i know, nobody said that's why they're protesting

    I got the idea from these following posts mainly



    G Power wrote: »
    This is really a turn up for the books if ever i seen one. Suddenly Saturday march has taken on a whole new depth......................................

    G Power wrote: »
    ............. i will be out making lots of noise and seeing if we can't make this a regular thing until things really change in a positive way for us all in this country.
    G Power wrote: »
    an oil and gas deal renegotiation of even small proportions would wipe that 12bn off the chart immediately and along with a few more progressie initiatives like legalising cannabis for medical and recreational purposes and other no so provocative moves would put us back on track in a few months
    G Power wrote: »
    so you take 2 proven massive sources of income generators, cannabis and hemp being completely renewable, well suited to this countries environment and with an endless amount of uses, not limited to medical and recreational use either and the oil which has already been valued in reports as to be worth in excess of €500/600bn, .....



    Anyway, more importantly
    G Power wrote: »
    ;......................but i would beg of anyone who has a heart and cares for their family, friends and neighbours who have been burdened with this debt in one way or another to go on sat.


    If I don't like and share this post, does it mean I don't have a heart or care about my family, friends and neighbours
    :(


  • #63
    Pottler
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,073 ✭✭✭Pottler


    The AGSI is the Athlone Geriatric Studies Institute, right? What's their beef with austerity??


  • #64
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    G Power wrote: »
    This is really a turn up for the books if ever i seen one. Suddenly Saturday march has taken on a whole new depth and can only help the whole situation on the ground with regards treatment of protestors here in future i hope.

    Somehow I doubt the Gardaí involved in the march will be throwing missiles at those on duty.


  • #65
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    MagicSean wrote: »
    Somehow I doubt the Gardaí involved in the march will be throwing missiles at those on duty.

    They might if they're stoned:pac:


  • #66
    G Power
    Closed Accounts Posts: 559 ✭✭✭G Power


    Boombastic wrote: »
    I got the idea from these following posts mainly















    Anyway, more importantly



    If I don't like and share this post, does it mean I don't have a heart or care about my family, friends and neighbours
    :(

    is this an example of trolling??


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  • #67
    BlaasForRafa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    Boombastic wrote: »
    Is this what the AGSI are Marching for?:pac::pac:

    Unfortunately not. The AGSI are just another bunch of public servants looking to protect their privileged position while the rest of society suffers.


  • #68
    G Power
    Closed Accounts Posts: 559 ✭✭✭G Power


    BlaasForRafa wrote: »
    Unfortunately not. The AGSI are just another bunch of public servants looking to protect their privileged position while the rest of society suffers.

    I don't know man, the garda would still have plenty to do and could do a lot more of it if they weren't completely wasting their time going after a medical wonder/beneficial and also recreational plant

    prohibition is ending across the world and even closer to home in many countries in the EU, it's only a matter of time now before we see it's end here in Ireland.


  • #69
    KyussBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭KyussBishop


    For those asking what alternatives are, or where funding must come from:
    The EU is perfectly capable of drastically reducing the interest we pay on our debts, by centralizing the debts, and of wiping out a significant portion of our debts; the EU is also capable of issuing bonds to develop a centralized investment fund, to get our economy (and all other EU economies) back on track, which would allow increased expenditure; that has the knock-on effect of increased tax intake as the economy recovers (thus closing the deficit without cuts).

    Those are just a few things which can be done to resolve the crisis at an EU level, and that's not even getting into the usage of money creation (while staying within inflation targets), which can provide an even more powerful method of funding expenditure, again without increasing our debts.

    All the solutions already exist, and there are no fundamental economic obstacles, only political obstacles (and primarily at an EU level); this is why protests are needed, in order to create political pressure, to get our seriously underperforming government to seek these solutions (or to have a hard look at what role we want to have with the EU, if the EU continues along its current destructive path).


  • #70
    Son Of A Vidic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    Dean0088 wrote: »
    Meh.

    I'd protest but I'm not an idiot.

    Actually, I suspect the opposite.


  • #71
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,755 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Is there an anti anti-austerity protest on too? I'd much rather go to that and protest that the needed cuts are not and have not been made and all that's happened in the last 4 years is a load of can kicking...


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  • #72
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭jank


    G Power wrote: »
    and that matters how? What we have here is a deal that allows the extraction companies setting their costs off any possible corporation taxes and other small fees for decades before we get a hint at a trickle of money all because some of those involved in the negotiation didn't really have the best interest of the state and it's people in mind

    Em, cause thats how people make money, maybe we should fill the barrels with seawater, lots of money in that.
    G Power wrote: »
    the irish state need never extract even one barrel of oil and still enjoy a similar deal that other countries have with regards profits from their own resources!!

    Tell me, how can you not extract a commodity from the earth and make money from it? Because I am sure plenty of people would be interested in this. I have a lump of gold to sell you if you are interested.
    G Power wrote: »
    your attempt at derailing the thread is ridiculous

    THis is gas, you bring up a hair brained scheme of sorting out the deficit by the magical extraction of non-existant oil in a thread about the AGSI and you accuse me of derailing a thread?


  • #73
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,227 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    KyussBishop wrote: »
    For those asking what alternatives are, or where funding must come from:
    The EU is perfectly capable of drastically reducing the interest we pay on our debts, by centralizing the debts, and of wiping out a significant portion of our debts; the EU is also capable of issuing bonds to develop a centralized investment fund, to get our economy (and all other EU economies) back on track, which would allow increased expenditure; that has the knock-on effect of increased tax intake as the economy recovers (thus closing the deficit without cuts).

    Those are just a few things which can be done to resolve the crisis at an EU level, and that's not even getting into the usage of money creation (while staying within inflation targets), which can provide an even more powerful method of funding expenditure, again without increasing our debts.

    All the solutions already exist, and there are no fundamental economic obstacles, only political obstacles (and primarily at an EU level); this is why protests are needed, in order to create political pressure, to get our seriously underperforming government to seek these solutions (or to have a hard look at what role we want to have with the EU, if the EU continues along its current destructive path).
    How do you fix that it costs more to run the country on a day to day basis than it take in in income. Bearing in mind that no one wants their incomes cut.

    Interest on loans etc is a seperate issue . We are currently borrowing money to pay wages and social welfare etc.


  • #74
    Furious_George
    Closed Accounts Posts: 215 ✭✭Furious_George


    Why are they calling it an anti austerity march. I thought it was a march to highlight the publics opposition to the payment of the promissory notes. That is what it has been advertised as and not a general anti austerity protest. It is on the bank debt issue i plan to protest. I hope it isnt derailed on the day by other issues.


  • #75
    Furious_George
    Closed Accounts Posts: 215 ✭✭Furious_George


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    How do you fix that it costs more to run the country on a day to day basis than it take in in income. Bearing in mind that no one wants their incomes cut.

    Interest on loans etc is a seperate issue . We are currently borrowing money to pay wages and social welfare etc.

    I think what kryuss is suggesting is that we grow our tax revenus through investment in jobs. Remember the fiscal deficit occurred because our tax revenue collapsed with the property bubble. There are two ways to decrease the deficit; cutting spending or raising tax revenue.

    Tax revenue can be increased in two ways also; by increasing rates and introducing new taxes or by increasing the number of people paying tax and the amount of tax they pay. This can be done through investment in jobs and in companies. This could also have a positive feedback into the banks as more people in work means more people able to meet mortgage repayments and an improvement of banks balance sheets. This would help us return normal lending which will further boost SMEs and jobs.

    Another feedback loop is the reduction in the social welfare bill as increased employment means less money on social welfare. It means a decreased public health bill as more people can afford private health insurance.

    In reality we do need cuts and reforms to ensure value for out public spending. A broadening of the tax base was also required as the stupid policies of previous governments meant we were hugely reliant on property related tax. However, imagine the effect 3.1 billion a year invested in the domestic economy, instead of being removed from it, could have through the mechanisms i mentioned above. This is why i will be out on saturday.


  • #76
    CruelCoin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,463 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    G Power wrote: »
    well i won't be sitting on my arse on sat at 1.30pm like so many others, i will be out making lots of noise and seeing if we can't make this a regular thing until things really change in a positive way for us all in this country.

    the reasons why we need to protest have been debated over and over in the last 4 years so that's it, i'm logging out but i would beg of anyone who has a heart and cares for their family, friends and neighbours who have been burdened with this debt in one way or another to go on sat.

    Tommy has 2 apples. He was hungry enough to eat 3 apples.

    Tommy borrowed an apple from Jim because he was hungry last lunch.

    Jim wants his apple back.

    Tommy still only has 2 apples.

    How does Tommy pay Jim back his apples?



    I would love to hear a single credible suggestion from you on how to close the national deficit, without resorting to the "make dem richies pay" crap.

    One suggestion please.


  • #77
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,182 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Furious_George wrote: »
    Why are they calling it an anti austerity march. I thought it was a march to highlight the publics opposition to the payment of the promissory notes. That is what it has been advertised as and not a general anti austerity protest. It is on the bank debt issue i plan to protest. I hope it isnt derailed on the day by other issues.
    Can you link to an ICTU document advertising this protest as a call to default on the PN?


  • #78
    CruelCoin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,463 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    G Power wrote: »
    an oil and gas deal renegotiation of even small proportions would wipe that 12bn off the chart immediately

    You need to stop reading the sun/mirror/mail/insertragpaperhere.

    Seriously.

    You'd swear you think we're about to become the next ****ing Saudi Arabia.

    We have a few small oil and gas fields. Most of it unexploitable. The total value of these fields does not go over the 12bill mark. Long way off really.

    A company like shell will not work for free and sure as hell will not pay in advance........Oil exploration and exploitation takes decades. Its not a quick fix as you think so.


  • #79
    CruelCoin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,463 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    Furious_George wrote: »
    I think what kryuss is suggesting is that we grow our tax revenus through investment in jobs.

    If we were to close a 15bn income gap through growth, do you not think that would result in another massive boom followed by the inevitable massive bust?

    That is a hair of the dog solution, nothing more.


  • #80
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,755 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    CruelCoin wrote: »
    Tommy has 2 apples. He was hungry enough to eat 3 apples.

    Tommy borrowed an apple from Jim because he was hungry last lunch.

    Jim wants his apple back.

    Tommy still only has 2 apples.

    How does Tommy pay Jim back his apples?



    I would love to hear a single credible suggestion from you on how to close the national deficit, without resorting to the "make dem richies pay" crap.

    One suggestion please.

    Tommy gives Jim back his apple and rents himself out to lonely men in order to afford tomorrow apples


  • #81
    Furious_George
    Closed Accounts Posts: 215 ✭✭Furious_George


    CruelCoin wrote: »

    If we were to close a 15bn income gap through growth, do you not think that would result in another massive boom followed by the inevitable massive bust?

    That is a hair of the dog solution, nothing more.

    I dont suggest closing it solely through growth. I suggest a structured programme of growth and cuts. I agree the tax base needs to be broadened through hh taxes water charges etc., but investment in real industries and infrastructure will increase our productive capacity. This isnt about inflating another bubble its about increasing our potential output. I think that paying the 3.1 billion a year is ridiculous. We need to come to a substantive deal with europe and use the resulting money for investment.


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  • #82
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,227 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Furious_George wrote: »
    I think what kryuss is suggesting is that we grow our tax revenus through investment in jobs. Remember the fiscal deficit occurred because our tax revenue collapsed with the property bubble. There are two ways to decrease the deficit; cutting spending or raising tax revenue. .

    What do we do right now to stop spending €15b a year more than we take in? The more €15b's we borrow while we do other things , the more we have to pay back.


  • #83
    Furious_George
    Closed Accounts Posts: 215 ✭✭Furious_George


    dvpower wrote: »
    Can you link to an ICTU document advertising this protest as a call to default on the PN?

    Who said anything about a call to default. It is a protest to let Europe know we need a deal on the bank debt, the most immediate symptom of the bank debt is the payment of the promissory notes.

    Here is a link which describes what the protest is about

    http://www.ictu.ie/jobsnotdebt/

    They specifically state that the burden of the bank debt is the most pressing issue facing Ireland at the moment. This in itself differentiates the protest from an "austerity march".


  • #84
    Furious_George
    Closed Accounts Posts: 215 ✭✭Furious_George


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    What do we do right now to stop spending €15b a year more than we take in? The more €15b's we borrow while we do other things , the more we have to pay back.

    Read the rest of my post, not just the first line, and the subsequent posts I have written on this thread and you will have your answer.


  • #85
    monkeypants
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,385 ✭✭✭monkeypants


    CruelCoin wrote: »
    Tommy has 2 apples. He was hungry enough to eat 3 apples...Tommy still only has 2 apples.
    Tommy gets himself a job at the European Commission Court of Auditors. ;)


  • #86
    johnr1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 965 ✭✭✭johnr1


    So now we're going to have overpaid public servants marching alongside Eirigi, the Looney Left Alliance and a collected rabble. Interesting.

    Everyone is in favour of taxing someone else, because of course none of them benefitted from the boom. Utter bullsh1t.


  • #87
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,182 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Furious_George wrote: »
    Who said anything about a call to default. It is a protest to let Europe know we need a deal on the bank debt, the most immediate symptom of the bank debt is the payment of the promissory notes.

    Here is a link which describes what the protest is about

    http://www.ictu.ie/jobsnotdebt/

    They specifically state that the burden of the bank debt is the most pressing issue facing Ireland at the moment. This in itself differentiates the protest from an "austerity march".

    You said you thought it was a march to highlight the publics opposition to the payment of the promissory notes, but ICTU say only that its about 'lifting the burden'.

    What it is really is a pro government protest, designed to strengthen the government's position in the current negotiations - that doesn't seem at the moment to be about not paying the PN, but about changing the terms.


  • #88
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,801 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    CruelCoin wrote: »
    Tommy has 2 apples. He was hungry enough to eat 3 apples.

    Tommy borrowed an apple from Jim because he was hungry last lunch.

    Jim wants his apple back.

    Tommy still only has 2 apples.

    How does Tommy pay Jim back his apples?



    I would love to hear a single credible suggestion from you on how to close the national deficit, without resorting to the "make dem richies pay" crap.

    One suggestion please.
    is that you, bill cullen?


  • #89
    Phill Ewinn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,007 ✭✭✭Phill Ewinn


    CruelCoin wrote: »

    Tommy has 2 apples. He was hungry enough to eat 3 apples.

    Tommy borrowed an apple from Jim because he was hungry last lunch.

    Jim wants his apple back.

    Tommy still only has 2 apples.

    How does Tommy pay Jim back his apples?



    I would love to hear a single credible suggestion from you on how to close the national deficit, without resorting to the "make dem richies pay" crap.

    One suggestion please.


    Pay attention in class. This topic has been discussed over and over on these forums. The government aren't about to listen. The public servants certainly don't want to know.


  • #90
    KyussBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭KyussBishop


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    How do you fix that it costs more to run the country on a day to day basis than it take in in income. Bearing in mind that no one wants their incomes cut.

    Interest on loans etc is a seperate issue . We are currently borrowing money to pay wages and social welfare etc.
    Well, this was largely explained in my post (and Furious George rephrased it well in more detail too); with the increased spending in the country, through help from the EU, the deficit closes automatically through increased tax intake (due to an increase in people working and spending in the economy, bringing in more revenue).

    What people saying "close the deficit" often don't seem to realize, is that the deficit is due to a lack of jobs, and that trying to close the deficit with cuts leads to even more job losses (and thus worsens the crisis/deficit, in a repeated negative feedback loop); the solution is not cuts, it is providing additional funding for more jobs (which the EU is perfectly capable of doing).


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  • #91
    Furious_George
    Closed Accounts Posts: 215 ✭✭Furious_George


    dvpower wrote: »
    You said you thought it was a march to highlight the publics opposition to the payment of the promissory notes, but ICTU say only that its about 'lifting the burden'.

    What it is really is a pro government protest, designed to strengthen the government's position in the current negotiations - that doesn't seem at the moment to be about not paying the PN, but about changing the terms.

    Well I'm not sure I see the difference here. Its about getting the best possible deal without acting unilaterally and just saying FU we are not paying. It is a pro government stance because our government are the ones negotiating the deal on our behalf. The best possible change in terms is obviously not having to pay anything at all but this is unlikely. What it will show Europe and our own Government that this is an issue on which we will not be fobbed off with a token gesture. We expect a deal and a good one which will free up current funds to invest in the economy (while continuing to broaden the tax base and cut wastage).

    That's just my reading of the situation. I am not trying to argue with anyone, just point out the specifics of what I will be protesting for and why. The reason I posted in this thread originally is to highlight to others that this is not a general anti-austerity march where people just want the cuts and taxes to stop. It has a specific agenda which many feel strongly about and I hope people wont be put off protesting by the potential for the protest to be derailed onto other issues. I have to get back to work now.


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