What good is an Arts Degree?

Ruudi_Mentari · 06-02-2013 12:30AM

I like to see renegades, mavericks with a real desire > self learned ability and a disdain for a system that might corral their vision but I understand some aspects may need tutoring / sectors need certification. I just fear we may be overly reliant on this method now

Boombastic · 06-02-2013 12:30AM

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

My point wasn't that it was only of value if it could/couldn't get you job, my point was... you're a philistine.

I rest my case.

A philistine :eek:

Can I borrow you arts degree to wipe my tears? I believe they are good for that.......and no, I don't want fries with it

April O Neill · 06-02-2013 12:30AM

I think Arts degrees are great if you are passionate about the subjects, or know where you want to go with yours. I think the reason Arts degrees are much maligned is because for some reason they also seem to attract the highest percentages of "I'm not arsed about college, I just want to go for the craic" kinda students.

Mardy Bum · 06-02-2013 12:31AM

This joke is generally the last refuge of those unhappy with their own situation brought about by their own college choices. There is a massive misconception out there that an education and a qualification must be mutually inclusive. Really it is a sad indictment of the person as it is a sign that learning is only worthwhile if it is of immediate monetary benefit.

Lifelong learning should be sought by all but few partake in it.

smash · 06-02-2013 12:32AM

somefeen wrote: »

Artists are just as necessary as scientists and engineers.
Be pretty **** society if there was no one making visualisations of abstract thoughts or beautiful stuff.
Some people just don't get it it though.

Psst... An arts degree is not a degree in art!

EoghanIRL · 06-02-2013 12:33AM

Senna wrote: »

A person with a degree in business says, "How can I get paid when it works?"
A person with a degree in science says, "How does it work?"
A person with a degree in philosophy says, "Why does it work?"
A person with a degree in mathematics says, "How many ways will it work?"
A person with a degree in arts says, "Would you like fries with that?"

Haha , they say those who fail teach ...

April O Neill · 06-02-2013 12:33AM

Pherekydes wrote: »

A woman I used to work with asked me what I was doing in college. "Arts", said I. She asked me was I always good at art in school. :eek: :rolleyes:

TBH, I only found out what an Arts degree was in fifth year, and thought the exact same thing as her!

Celly Smunt · 06-02-2013 12:35AM

Mardy Bum wrote: »

This joke is generally the last refuge of those unhappy with their own situation brought about by their own college choices. There is a massive misconception out there that an education and a qualification must be mutually inclusive. Really it is a sad indictment of the person as it is a sign that learning is only worthwhile if it is of immediate monetary benefit.

Lifelong learning should be sought by all but few partake in it.

I think it's more about interest.For example,I have an M.Eng.Why?,because i love knowing how things work and why they work and with this comes it's monetary value which is a major plus.However now with my monetary value aspect sorted,if i want i can anything as much as I want and still fall back on a useful degree.

starlit · 06-02-2013 12:35AM

Not every arts course is like that some can be tough going - like teaching, business/IT/e-commerce/IS/Multimedia related ones. Anything in the humanities and social work/sciences/childcare aren't so straight forward and straight cut.

Some courses miss out on work placement as part of a course which I think work placement is vital as part of a course and its a plus if you work part time or done summer work or something in your spare time related to work/work skills when attending college. For those that didn't work while in college even if working in the summer I feel they have a disadvantage over those that had a part time job or had work placement while attending their course. Unless you got a job as soon as you left college could finding yourself on the job ladder be of any help.

Bipolar Joe · 06-02-2013 12:37AM

ITT: Bitter people who studied something boring.

Scruffles · 06-02-2013 12:37AM

from what have heard,its very difficult to get jobs in art unless have studied in a profesional art college/institute but with an art degree and awesome portfolio laid out one of those art colleges may be more likely to take on,aparently there as hard as fck with choosing students.

unless were a big fan of computer games,coud do whatever courses needed in that area- theres one lad on deviant art from dublin [?] doing design at a irish located computer game developer,not sure how many developers there are in ireland.
people used to be able to get into the computer game design team some years ago via spending a few years as a lowly tester but not anymore,probably because theres so many of them.

Celly Smunt · 06-02-2013 12:38AM

Bipolar Joe wrote: »

ITT: Bitter people who studied something boring.

ITT: The definition of a depressing college.

smash · 06-02-2013 12:40AM

pmcmahon wrote: »

ITT: The definition of a depressing college.

They deffo should have called it TIT.

Celly Smunt · 06-02-2013 12:41AM

Scruffles wrote: »

from what have heard,its very difficult to get jobs in art unless have studied in a profesional art college/institute but with an art degree and awesome portfolio laid out one of those art colleges may be more likely to take on,aparently there as hard as fck with choosing students.

unless were a big fan of computer games,coud do whatever courses needed in that area- theres one lad on deviant art from dublin [?] doing design at a irish located computer game developer,not sure how many developers there are in ireland.
people used to be able to get into the computer game design team some years ago via spending a few years as a lowly tester but not anymore,probably because theres so many of them.

Game development has moved on so much that it's more heavily IT related than ever.I could see why a person with a degree in IT or design would be chosen over somebody with an arts degree.A solid art portfolio would never cut it for a job in game development unless the person had some kind of education in IT.

Corkfeen · 06-02-2013 12:42AM

Boombastic wrote: »

A philistine :eek:

Can I borrow you arts degree to wipe my tears? I believe they are good for that.......and no, I don't want fries with it

Your maturity is staggering.... Journalists, civil servants and teachers are extremely important for having a functional and informed society. Most historians started off with an arts degree, would you prefer that we no longer write or learn about the past? While many people who did arts degrees mightn't end up in a career relating to their subjects, you do learn skills in it.

I'm currently doing an arts degree and will be moving onward to post graduate studies next year, while you may think the degree itself is worthless. My critical faculties and research skills are constantly improving and that's an exceedingly useful skill that plenty lack. It's more useful than making jokes about working in McDonalds.

Admittedly, many waste their years in it, but if a person puts work into an arts degree, it is worth it.

fenris · 06-02-2013 12:42AM

Think of the degree in the same way as someone buying a house, the value of your investment you made (time / money) when you buy/study doesn't mean that it will be valued in the same way by a potential purchaser/employer.

It doesn't matter if you spent 15 years studying if it was not in an area that is viewed as being of value by the potential employer, just like an box of a one bedroom apartment bought for 500k during the boom is of no value to a typical present day house hunter.

When I interview people I want to find out if they will fit in as a functional net contributor to my organisation with a minimum of time spent in getting them up to speed. So when I interview someone I try to judge that from their work experience and look to their degree to let me know that they have the basic industry knowledge and network of peers needed to be successful in their role. Relevant experience & a relevant degree or just relevant experience trumps a general degree and no relevant experience every time.

You have to select people that look like they can do the job, it is not fair either to the person or organisation to put someone into a for which they role are not equipped, there is little to no tolerance in there modern workplace for mistakes.

A degree or other qualification needs to be relevant to the role you expect to fill, the choice of degree is a gamble as the world can change significantly within three or four years.

starlit · 06-02-2013 12:42AM

Some people wish they made better degree choices others don't regret it they just keep going.

Self learning can be good help too not just going to college.

Mine is a BA but I do wonder if I could have chosen differently transferred into another course or done a different degree or something similar but slightly better even with similar subjects. Every college is different even with similar courses, modules can vary and to the degree being taught and what is taught can vary too.

I didn't regret doing the BA but sometimes wonder, I didn't realise till half way that did I make a mistake but always had it in the head to do further study and branch off then but not a clue in. It was IT I really wanted to get into but thought my course having business and IT/IS and multimedia help but maybe been better off with a more specified degree in B of Business/Science. I've a postgrad in IT but its broad but not specified enough can't decide what area of IT to go into or go back to something in between Business/IT/IS/Multimedia.
Too much variety in my work experience might be hindering the fact i've not specified in any career path.

Arts...why? Thinking it a safe option to get a job...wrong!

Senna · 06-02-2013 12:43AM

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

I have a Bsc and a post-grad in IT.

One for each eye then:pac:

1ZRed · 06-02-2013 12:44AM

This is a stupid question that's brought up far too often, imo.

Arts, like so many other subjects, is not useless and can give a broad foundation to build more onto. People can go on to do many things with an arts degree and in many ways, it gives a back door into certain careers in psychology, teaching, etc. where the door would be firmly locked otherwise.

I'd say a degree in actual art, as in fine art, is much, much more niche in it's end result.

People only seem to look down on arts because so many have gone on to get a degree in it, the points are quite low for it atm, and many who do do it only do so because they are not sure what kind of degree they want.

There's nothing wrong with any of the above mentioned, though.

Celly Smunt · 06-02-2013 12:45AM

I guess it all comes down to,If I survived the apocalypse would i prefer to be with a historian and civil servant or a doctor and engineer.

Ruudi_Mentari · 06-02-2013 12:47AM

April O Neill wrote: »

TBH, I only found out what an Arts degree was in fifth year, and thought the exact same thing as her!

yeah well I didn't make it that far.

and I still don't know, Humanities maybe? Why do people need to be thought humanity

I'd have though that would be for people not yet fit for comprehensive school

starlit · 06-02-2013 12:50AM

fenris wrote: »

Think of the degree in the same way as someone buying a house, the value of your investment you made (time / money) when you buy/study doesn't mean that it will be valued in the same way by a potential purchaser/employer.

That's interesting way to look at it like you buy a house/car/an expensive item like a phone/technology gadget etc. Yet people keep saying they are crying out for people with certain skills....rubbish if you ask me.

It doesn't matter if you spent 15 years studying if it was not in an area that is viewed as being of value by the potential employer, just like an box of a one bedroom apartment bought for 500k during the boom is of no value to a typical present day house hunter.

True.

When I interview people I want to find out if they will fit in as a functional net contributor to my organisation with a minimum of time spent in getting them up to speed. So when I interview someone I try to judge that from their work experience and look to their degree to let me know that they have the basic industry knowledge and network of peers needed to be successful in their role. Relevant experience & a relevant degree or just relevant experience trumps a general degree and no relevant experience every time.

So basically trained up without having to train them up. some candidates still need to get some run of the mill of how things are done in an organisation though with or without hands on training.

You have to select people that look like they can do the job, it is not fair either to the person or organisation to put someone into a for which they role are not equipped, there is little to no tolerance in there modern workplace for mistakes.

A degree or other qualification needs to be relevant to the role you expect to fill, the choice of degree is a gamble as the world can change significantly within three or four years.

I suppose that is true the jobs market can vary from year to year.

starlit · 06-02-2013 12:51AM

Some people have no choice to do Arts based on their points others actually want to do Arts regardless of their points so everyone is different.

Senna · 06-02-2013 12:53AM

pmcmahon wrote: »

I guess it all comes down to,If I survived the apocalypse would i prefer to be with a historian and civil servant or a doctor and engineer.

In the kingdom of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

Mardy Bum · 06-02-2013 01:12AM

pmcmahon wrote: »

I think it's more about interest.For example,I have an M.Eng.Why?,because i love knowing how things work and why they work and with this comes it's monetary value which is a major plus.However now with my monetary value aspect sorted,if i want i can anything as much as I want and still fall back on a useful degree.

I'm was aiming that at people who denigrate arts degrees really rather than having a swipe at everyone other than BA graduates.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 06-02-2013 01:16AM

Boombastic wrote: »

A philistine :eek:

Can I borrow you arts degree to wipe my tears? I believe they are good for that.......and no, I don't want fries with it

I don't actually have one, but as an enthusiast, I think you may find the ambeince and power of my artwork just as absorbing (absorbant? Maybe....). Regarding the fries, well - if you can assume I have an art degree, can I assume you're a fat lazy idiot who shouldn't even be in McDonald's in the first place?

dlouth15 · 06-02-2013 01:19AM

Madam_X said they are better than no degree, but how much of this is due to the fact that a very high proportion of those entering the workforce have degrees? How much if it is due to the intrinsic value of the degree? In times gone by people happily did those same jobs with only leaving certs and in some cases less than that.

Of course it's great for people in their late teens and early twenties to be able to do something they are interested in for three or four years, but should the State subsidize subjects that are primarily of academic interest and not directly related to the needs of the workforce, particularly in the current economic climate? And how many are doing arts not because of any particular interest in those subjects but because they didn't get into some professional course yet feel the need for a degree (or are pressured into it) because they feel they will be discriminated against in the workforce?

My view: cut the numbers of places in arts drastically. Possibly other areas too. Is a degree in commerce, for example, really necessary for working at the lower levels of banks or insurance companies. What happened to learning on the job? Probably a lot of the real learning happens on the job itself anyway and the knowledge gained in college is forgotten over the years. It seems to me that the State is simply taking over the role that would have been done by employers themselves in the past.

So cut the numbers in arts and some other degrees generally. Put some of the savings into proper secondary and more importantly primary education - decent language learning in particular. Far better to have a large section of the population reasonably conversant in the a foreign language (and this is best done early on in education) than a small number with knowledge of French literature at 3rd level and the rest ignorant.

Reserve third level for subjects a) where there is a direct national priority and b) if it is for arts, it should be for those with a distinct talent for those subjects, not for those who just think they need some form of degree because everyone else is doing one.

fenris · 06-02-2013 01:20AM

doovdela wrote: »

So basically trained up without having to train them up. some candidates still need to get some run of the mill of how things are done in an organisation though with or without hands on training.

Yep, when you have a choice, you take the one that can get up to speed the fastest with the minimum of impact on the rest of the organisation.
There are always organisation specific processes that you can only learn within that organisation, but you should have all of the general organisational stuff down before you look for anything beyond an entry level graduate role.

A huge amount of work goes into getting a graduate up to speed and working independently, there is a definite drain on their workmates in the interim and a big hit on departmental effectiveness.

Headcount is precious, these days you only get headcount approved if you have a definite need and can demonstrate the benefit to the organisation.
This means that by the time headcount is approved you are already under pressure, add the time needed for the recruitment process and you have a very busy environment for any new employee to land in.

So from a business perspective you pick the one that will hit the ground running and be productive the soonest.

To boost you chances you need to tick as many of those boxes as possible before even applying for a job as there is nothing more annoying than being bombarded with C.V.s that don't meet the basic requirements, some recruitment agencies seem to just throw CV's about without any filtering whatsoever so I just set everything received from that sort of agency to one side and only look through their CV's if there is nothing suitable elsewhere.

Boombastic · 06-02-2013 01:21AM

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

I don't actually have one, but as an enthusiast, I think you may find the ambeince and power of my artwork just as absorbing (absorbant? Maybe....). Regarding the fries, well - if you can assume I have an art degree, can I assume you're a fat lazy idiot who shouldn't even be in McDonald's in the first place?

Why don't you have one?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 06-02-2013 01:22AM

dlouth15 wrote: »

Madam_X said they are better than no degree, but how much of this is due to the fact that a very high proportion of those entering the workforce have degrees? How much if it is due to the intrinsic value of the degree? In times gone by people happily did those same jobs with only leaving certs and in some cases less than that.

Of course it's great for people in their late teens and early twenties to be able to do something they are interested in for three or four years, but should the State subsidize subjects that are primarily of academic interest and not directly related to the needs of the workforce, particularly in the current economic climate? And how many are doing arts not because of any particular interest in those subjects but because they didn't get into some professional course yet feel the need for a degree (or are pressured into it) because they feel they will be discriminated against in the workforce?

My view: cut the numbers of places in arts drastically. Possibly other areas too. Is a degree in commerce, for example, really necessary for working at the lower levels of banks or insurance companies. What happened to learning on the job? Probably a lot of the real learning happens on the job itself anyway and the knowledge gained in college is forgotten over the years. It seems to me that the State is simply taking over the role that would have been done by employers themselves in the past.

So cut the numbers in arts and some other degrees generally. Put some of the savings into proper secondary and more importantly primary education - decent language learning in particular. Far better to have a large section of the population reasonably conversant in the a foreign language (and this is best done early on in education) than a small number with knowledge of French literature at 3rd level and the rest ignorant.

Reserve third level for subjects a) where there is a direct national priority and b) if it is for arts, it should be for those with a distinct talent for those subjects, not for those who just think they need some form of degree because everyone else is doing one.

And we'll be a very bland and uninteresting nation.

What good is an Arts Degree?

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