Diesel 1.6 or 1.8 Ford Focus - What should I buy?

mullingar · 04-02-2013 11:35AM

corkgsxr wrote: »

I figure unless your quite lucky youll get bother with the 1.6hdi

I would put money on it that of the 2 engines, serviced at the correct interval, WITH the correct oil, the 1.8 will fail first with its troublesome DMF. (ignoring the DPF and EGR as they fail on all engines depending on driving style)

The good wife has a UK import 110hp 1.6 2006 focus, now with 120k miles on it (bought with 60k on her), the 3 thing that have gone wrong in 4 years of ownership is the DPF@80k (removed, deleted and dyno remapped to 130hp), EGR siezed @ 95k (A good strip down and clean out fixed this) and the alternator @ €105k. It is serviced ever 10k miles by myself with the correct synthetic "Ford Spec" oil.

Of the 2 engines, I would highly recommend the 1.6 but only WITH a full service history

Stallingrad · 04-02-2013 12:02PM

mullingar wrote: »

(removed, deleted and dyno remapped to 130hp),

You know that your DMF is tuned for use with the power output of the engine, in ditching the DFP and remaping you could well be advancing your next DMF failure. There's no such thing as a free lunch.

mullingar · 04-02-2013 12:46PM

Stallingrad wrote: »

You know that your DMF is tuned for use with the power output of the engine, in ditching the DFP and remaping you could well be advancing your next DMF failure. There's no such thing as a free lunch.

No, DMF's are tuned to the harmonic balancing requirements of the crankshaft/pistons/conrods etc , not the engine load. No engine load is passed onto the DMF, all engine load is passed through to the gearbox.

DMF, dual mass flywheels have 2x metal masses and a few big springs and is mounted onto the crankshaft between the engine and gearbox to "neutralise" the normal crankshaft pulses on low revs. What kills DMF is stop start traffic and engine starts/stops.

JohnBoy26 · 04-02-2013 02:36PM

mullingar wrote: »

I would put money on it that of the 2 engines, serviced at the correct interval, WITH the correct oil, the 1.8 will fail first with its troublesome DMF. (ignoring the DPF and EGR as they fail on all engines depending on driving style)

The good wife has a UK import 110hp 1.6 2006 focus, now with 120k miles on it (bought with 60k on her), the 3 thing that have gone wrong in 4 years of ownership is the DPF@80k (removed, deleted and dyno remapped to 130hp), EGR siezed @ 95k (A good strip down and clean out fixed this) and the alternator @ €105k. It is serviced ever 10k miles by myself with the correct synthetic "Ford Spec" oil.

Of the 2 engines, I would highly recommend the 1.6 but only WITH a full service history

Even properly maintained 1.6s gives turbo trouble. The DMF also gives trouble in the 1.6 among other issuea. As for the power band, apart from the 1.6 being slightly smoother it's not as lively or as nice to drive as the 1.8 imo.

Imo the 1.6 is an awful engine and id never reccomend on to anyone over the 1.8. Yes the 1.8 gives DMF trouble but after that they are fairly reliable unlike the 1.6.

JohnBoy26 · 04-02-2013 02:49PM

olewy wrote: »

Looking to buy a 2nd diesel myself & currently having a similar dilemna.

I've also read that the kia/hyundai 1.6 crdi is more reliable but they're rarer, pricier & less roomy (bootwise anyway) compared to the Focus.

How does the Focus 2.0 Tdci compare to the 1.6 & 1.8 Tdci in terms of reliability? Obviously its more to tax & less efficient than either. I've test driven all 3 of them & while I liked the 1.6 (smooth, relatively quiet, flexible power delivery) it seemed under powered compared to the rougher older 1.8 (noticeably more torque).
I think the 2.0 i tested may have been a lemon so I think I need to test another one but just curious on their reliability.

I'd go for a Mondeo 2.0 tdci titanium if they weren't so big (v. wide & long = awkward moving in & out of tight spots & parking). If the 2.0 is reasonably reliable & if the same unit is in the Volvo S40 i'd be veering towards an s40 2.0d SE but then again they have owner reports of poor consumption. Argh decisions. As someone said earlier & which I've found through research myself; there are no perfect modern diesels available these days.

I Can't comment on the 2.0 as I have no experience on them. Out of the other two engines though id pick the 1.8 hands down.

As for the Hyundai and kia being more expensive and rare, I would say they aren't that much more expensive than a focus if it is at all.

Yes they are rarer than a focus as the focus was the best selling car in the country while the Hyundai were a bit of an unknown for making quality vehicles until recently.

The focus is a nicer car inside imo and is better looking but a bit common. Can't comment on the boot space I can't imagine there'd be much in it between the two.

For reliability though the Hyundai and Kia are one of the best modern diesels imo.

corkgsxr · 04-02-2013 03:43PM

i have a berlingo with the 1.6hdi and i wouldnt go near another one.

perky round town but abit lacking on dualers and motorways.

the newer twinscroll turbo model is alot faster low down and up high. much more useable engine.

if it was me doing alot of miles id but a 2 litre diesel. much better. gets slightly less mpg but its worth it for the reliability. eg herslefs 2l d4d 2002 avensis with 204k miles i can still get 56mpg on a run

Stallingrad · 04-02-2013 03:57PM

olewy wrote: »

How does the Focus 2.0 Tdci compare to the 1.6 & 1.8 Tdci in terms of reliability?

I had a UK 2.0TDci for 4 years with no issues. Very quick, very smooth, very reliable, really liked it. The bhp of the Irish 2.0 was strangled I think, the UK one is full fat. A UK Titanium 2.0TDCi is the best Focus there is. Cheap too.

Essien · 04-04-2013 05:37PM

I'm in the market for one of these at the moment and I'll be going to look at a 06, 1.6 (110bhp) with circa 75k miles. Am I right in saying that my main concerns with this model are regarding the engine (DPF, EGR and maybe turbo) and not so much the DMF?

Should a good service history be enough to put my mind at rest re the engine?

Also, am I right in saying that if the DPF gives trouble, it can be removed and have the engine remapped without failing the DOE? If so, does anyone know a ball park figure for doing this?

One or two posters raised concerns regarding the turbo - is turbo trouble common?

Is there anything specific I should be looking out for in order to spot these issues? I assume a judder when taking off / idling will indicate a bad flywheel, but what about the rest?

Cheers

bazz26 · 04-04-2013 06:03PM

75k miles is very low mileage for a 2006 diesel car, I'd be wanting to see proof of a full service history of that mileage.

louby · 03-04-2015 10:54PM

Myself and my partner had 2 X 2009 1.8 tdci Focus'. Mine had engine failure in 2013 at only 61k miles. After previously having all injectors changed under warranty.
My partners died in October at 80,000 miles. Both used predominantly for motorway driving.
Whenever I mention the engines failed - people automatically ask if it was the 1.8 as renowned. But try finding info online is impossible

George Dalton · 04-04-2015 12:10AM

What exactly happened to the engines?

Saying an engine "failed" or "died" is pretty vague....

dr.fuzzenstein · 04-04-2015 01:37AM

louby wrote: »

Myself and my partner had 2 X 2009 1.8 tdci Focus'. Mine had engine failure in 2013 at only 61k miles. After previously having all injectors changed under warranty.
My partners died in October at 80,000 miles. Both used predominantly for motorway driving.
Whenever I mention the engines failed - people automatically ask if it was the 1.8 as renowned. But try finding info online is impossible

Had an 04 TDDI Focus, put near 200k km on it, no problems. An 09 1.8 TDCI Transit Connect, 130k km, a 99 1.8 TD Focus with galactic mileage, no engine problems (the rest was wrecked though

) and now currently drive an 06 1.8 TDCI Cmax. Bought with 112k km on it and now has 325k km on it. Died on me once with an electrical fault (quick fix by mechanic) and with an airleak in the fuel line (fixed by Ford).
All the above cars with a combined total of around 550 thousand kilometers driving (and not all of it like Miss Daisy) and not a single engine failure. Neither did any injectors fail, no EGR packed up, no turbo trouble, in fact that engine is as bombproof as they come.
It goes back to an 80's design. I once had an Escort with the granddad of that engine, it was a 1.6 na diesel that was slower than a wet week. Also put a load of km on that (can't remember how much) and then crashed the car into a motorway barrier. Car a total write-off, but the engine still ran.

Poulgorm · 04-04-2015 08:58AM

captainspeed wrote: »

Although I think the 1.8 is more reliable, most of the problems with the 1.6 are down to owners who don't understand the concept of servicing a car. The 1.6 TDCi has been used in everything from a Mini to a Volvo S80 and obviously you hear more stories about these engines developing problems than other engines simply due to the sheer volume of them sold. Service it on time and you're unlikely to have problems with them.

That, I can vouch for, is simply not correct.

Had a Volvo S40 (07, bought new) with that 1.6 engine. Did about 25,000 km per annum. Mostly long trips. Serviced at the specified intervals, by the main Volvo dealer,

At about 75,000 km, it became a very expensive machine, due to the cost of repairs.

Wouldn't touch them again.

The OP should buy a petrol: the fuel and tax he will save on diesel, will be dwarfed by the cost of repairs.

Henry Ford III · 04-04-2015 10:38AM

I've owned 6 x 1.6TDCI engined Foci from new. They've all been 100%.

dr.fuzzenstein · 04-04-2015 12:43PM

Poulgorm wrote: »

That, I can vouch for, is simply not correct.

Had a Volvo S40 (07, bought new) with that 1.6 engine. Did about 25,000 km per annum. Mostly long trips. Serviced at the specified intervals, by the main Volvo dealer,

At about 75,000 km, it became a very expensive machine, due to the cost of repairs.

Wouldn't touch them again.

The OP should buy a petrol: the fuel and tax he will save on diesel, will be dwarfed by the cost of repairs.

If he does 25k km, maybe. It all depends on the mileage.
The bit in bold, pubtalk. Over the last 5 years I did 200k km (40k a year) and I simply could not have afforded to do that in a petrol.
200k km @ 6 liters/100km=12000 liters of diesel
and
200k km @ 8 liters/100km=16000 liters of petrol
let's just crudely say petrol at 1.50 and diesel at 1.40 to even out the fluctuations over the last 5 years.
Diesel=€16800
Petrol=€24000
Difference: €7200
I would have to go through a hell of a lot of turbos, injectors and EGRs to make a loss on that. My car did need a timing belt, regular services, shocks and springs and a lot of other things. Oh wait, petrols need them too!
So for me it's definitely been worth it. And this is just for 5 years, I am not counting the 10 years before that, because those where company vehicles, so my employer made the saving. You can take a rough guess at the difference over 15 years.
Petrols are great, but if you do proper mileage, they work out very expensive. Unless I bought a Smart and I don't fancy spending two hours a day in one.

bazz26 · 04-04-2015 02:18PM

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I've owned 6 x 1.6TDCI engined Foci from new. They've all been 100%.

Didn't you sell them on roughly 12 or 18 months later though Henry? Not undermining your ownership experience of them but I'd expect such cars during that time frame to have a higher level of reliability than say 4+ year second hand examples.

I myself owned two cars with this engine, both bought second hand at 2 or 3 years old. Kept them both for about 2 years, the Focus never had any issues but the Volvo was far less reliable. I guess my point is that if you are buying second hand you really are at the mercy of how this engine was maintained by it's previous owners.

166man · 04-04-2015 05:32PM

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I've owned 6 x 1.6TDCI engined Foci from new. They've all been 100%.

To be fair, owned from new gives you the chance to look after them. If you're moving them on after a year then reliability is difficult to determine....

What else could you expect after a year or so? People buying these cars 4/5 years old with minimal service history are asking for trouble.

Slates · 04-04-2015 10:18PM

I have a 05 Focus 1.6 tdci from new, it now has 325,000km on it. I have always serviced it at the right interval, in a Ford garage at the start but now I do it myself.

I love the car, have got the alternator rewound about 2.5 years ago, new washers on the injectors last January and have had to change front shocks, tie rod ends etc but that is to be expected with the high mileage.

I could not recommend the 1.6 tdci engine or the Focus car enough, the family car in a 06 2.0 tdci mondeo and it is not half the car the Focus is (262,000 km on the clock).

I would buy another one in a heart beat once the service history was kosher, I hope to get another 150km as I will drive it until it dies.

louby · 05-04-2015 06:10PM

George Dalton wrote: »

What exactly happened to the engines?

Saying an engine "failed" or "died" is pretty vague....

The bottom end blew on both. I was told with mine there was an electrical wiring fault but I'm still waiting for the return of the vehicle and the engineers report for it.

My partners - we managed to get it yo the garage. They ran their diagnostics, I reminded them of the issue if mine but they decided to take it for a test drive anyway. When they blew the bottom end.

So we ended up with losing both vehicles with no deposit to buy others :0 (

Both had had oil and filter changes within 6 weeks of failure.

I managed to get a sample of the second lot. But the first one - it dumped all the oil on the road - plus assumed at that point more likely an issue with injector failures seeing as Ford were aware that there was a known fault.

I heard talk that they were powered by wet belt engines which were bound to fail.

The 1.8 seems reknowned - even the other day I was looking at a Toyota and I explained mine was in the garage. He asked what it was. I said a Ford focus. He asked if it was a 1.8 by any chance.

I can't say how many times mechanics have said this but it's difficult to find something on the net - I suspect it's known by Ford and they blame it on timing belts - but neither of ours were due

Special Circumstances · 05-04-2015 06:29PM

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Diesel=€16800
Petrol=€24000
Difference: €7200
I would have to go through a hell of a lot of turbos, injectors and EGR...

Petrols are great, but if you do proper mileage, they work out very expensive. Unless I bought a Smart and I don't fancy spending two hours a day in one.

Sorry doc- I did a hatchet job on quoting your post. 100% right. Drives me bonkers listening to diesel moaners making out their car cost them shed loads of money. Unless the alternative was walking cycling bus or thumbing, it didn't. Moaner just had to replace some pretty costly consumables but it should still be a saving v petrol unless the moaner really messed up the sums first day.

Now, a complete engine failure not due to complete negligence is a different matter.

dr.fuzzenstein · 05-04-2015 09:37PM

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Sorry doc- I did a hatchet job on quoting your post. 100% right. Drives me bonkers listening to diesel moaners making out their car cost them shed loads of money. Unless the alternative was walking cycling bus or thumbing, it didn't. Moaner just had to replace some pretty costly consumables but it should still be a saving v petrol unless the moaner really messed up the sums first day.

Now, a complete engine failure not due to complete negligence is a different matter.

Yeah, the newer 1.8's have a wet belt instead of a chain. The belt should really be changed at 100k km, so there's a potential problem for anyone who buys the newer 1.8. Ford I think quote a longer interval, so if you adhere to the official one, you will end up with problems.
I don't know if Ford rectified that in the meantime.

Chilli2222 · 25-11-2015 04:41PM

I'm looking into buying a 2009 focus zetec 1.8 at the moment. I'm wondering if there is any difference between the 1.6 and 1.8 also. What years of the 1.8 have the new wet belt's been fitted to? I have read that a chain cannot be fitted into 1.6 engine. However the 1.8 can remove half the belt for a chain. How long do people get out of their 1.8 engines with a belt and chain? At what mileage should belt/chain both be changed safely in reality if you do about 14,000 per year?

Jesus. · 25-11-2015 05:15PM

Chillie you're best off opening a new thread. They'll close this one down

Diesel 1.6 or 1.8 Ford Focus - What should I buy?

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