Diesel 1.6 or 1.8 Ford Focus - What should I buy?

MrWenger1982

I would like to buy 09/10 Ford Focus. I do a decent amount of mileage and motorway driving so I would prefer a Diesel with relatively low mileage.

I don't know too much about cars but I have tried to do some research online and talking to people. I have read that the 1.6 TCDI Diesel is a newer engine than the 1.8 TCDI Diesel and has better fuel efficiency and cheaper tax/insurance. I have test driven both cars and felt very little difference in the driving experience. I was leaning towards a 1.6 and have looked at quite a few of them but I "think" I am getting a very good deal on a 1.8 TCDI 2009 for €11,500 with 35K miles on it from what seems to be a reputable dealer. The 1.6s I like are all close to the 13K mark or well over it.

My main focus is on reliability and keeping a car for 6/7 years. My question is whether people feel it is is worth paying the extra €1.5K or more for a 1.6 TCDI over a 1.8 TCDI or whether the difference between the 1.6 and 1.8 is pretty negligible?

Mossess

Would you not be better off getting a VW Golf? If you intend on keeping it for a few years, it'd be nice to A) still have it in a few years, and get something for it when you sell it.

(Sorry if your a ford head, I don't mean to offend)

mullingar

Mossess wrote: »

..... get something for it when you sell it.

Are you saying you wont get something for the Ford? Thats silly.


Having driven the Focus & Golf, I prefer the Focus and the depreciations are very similar depending on spec.

Regarding a 1.6 or 1.8, there is a recent thread about the pros and cons.
1.6
Pros: newer engine, better driver, better power band,
Cons: needs to be serviced with the right oil or turbo will die due to oil starvation; EGR's and DPF (DPF are only on the 110hp version) start to go around 75k-100k miles (like most modern TD's)
1.8:
Pros: very reliable, well proven engine, no DPF as it would never meet new emissions
Cons: DMF is guaranteed to fail at around 100k

Mossess

mullingar wrote: »

Are you saying you wont get something for the Ford? Thats silly.

LOL, not at all, I have one of each. And I'm keeping them both for a few years too, and I expect to get a lot less for the ford compared to the VW. And I expect that I'll have the VW a lot longer then the ford too. Also my running costs seem to be a lot more on the ford.

Leonard Hofstadter

The power of the VW badge to make people delusional knows no bounds!

OP don't bother with a Golf, unless you absolutely have to have soft touch plastics (it's amazing how many people think soft touch plastics makes a car "well made" when the ironic thing is that most of the cars that give trouble are the ones with the said soft touch plastics) a Focus is better in every area that matters, especially for reliability.

Yes you'll get more for a Golf when you sell it on but you'll also pay more for it in the first place, so it's a zero sum game really.

MrWenger1982

Nope not a Ford head (my last car was a Toyota) but just prefer the look and feel of the Focus to the Golf.

Mullingar, I read that thread but to be honest, I didn't understand a lot of the lingo as I know very little about cars. Even when you say DMF is guaranteed to fail, I don't know what that means or if it is a big deal All things being equal, do you think it is worth paying 1.5K extra for a 1.6 over a 1.8 TCDI? I just want to know if it's a massive mistake to go for the 1.8.

mullingar

Mossess wrote: »

LOL, not at all, I have one of each. And I'm keeping them both for a few years too, and I expect to get a lot less for the ford compared to the VW. And I expect that I'll have the VW a lot longer then the ford too. Also my running costs seem to be a lot more on the ford.

As I said, it depends on spec.
A same year and similar spec'ed Focus vs Golf will have similar annual depreciation.

If yours are similar spec'ed, just look up what you paid for them and what they are worth now. Obviously you cant compare them if your Golf is a TDI highline vs a 1.4 Focus LX of different years

Mossess

Like I said I didn’t mean to offend any Ford heads. I was only speaking from experience.

But actually thinking about it even more, would you not be better off buying a 2006 ford mondeo? Bigger than the focus and great for high milers. Plus they (and this is a good thing) cost very little, the average price on cbg.ie at the moment is €6588 for a 2006

MrWenger1982

Mossess, I would prefer a diesel hatchback car so I have been debating on a Focus, Golf, Auris etc and the Focus is the one I prefer. Just trying to decide on a 1.6 or 1.8. I had choosen a 1.6 based on what I had read but the deal for €11,500 for 2009 1.8 TCDI style Focus with 35K miles is really making me consider a 1.8. Just trying to figure out whether 1.8s should be avoided or not really

mullingar

MrWenger1982 wrote: »

Nope not a Ford head (my last car was a Toyota) but just prefer the look and feel of the Focus to the Golf.

Mullingar, I read that thread but to be honest, I didn't understand a lot of the lingo as I know very little about cars. Even when you say DMF is guaranteed to fail, I don't know what that means or if it is a big deal All things being equal, do you think it is worth paying 1.5K extra for a 1.6 over a 1.8 TCDI? I just want to know if it's a massive mistake to go for the 1.8.

YES, get the 1.6TDCI.
My wife has a 2006 Focus 1.6TDCI 110hp that was recently de-DPF'd (Diesel particulate filter, ie a fancy expensive soot filter in the exhaust) and remapped to a very nice 130hp with better MPG too! A hoot to drive. :D

A dealer replaced DPF can be upto €1000!!!

A DMF is a dual mass flywheel, a flywheel is a big round cog between the engine and gearbox that balances an engine from MOST of the vibrations (its what the starter motor turns). To lighten the load and to improve economy, the most modern diesels use DMF's which have 2 masses with springs to balance the load which can wear badly. Its a an expensive fix as the clutch is usually changed too.

Leonard Hofstadter

The 1.6 is better IF you service it on time all the time. If you don't look after it you will pay the price (a new turbo or even a reconditioned one is not cheap).

Most of the problems with these engines are down to people not looking after them properly, something far too many Irish people do sadly. The 1.8 is more tolerant of neglect and abuse - it is a very simple engine so there is nothing to go wrong with them really. A DMF is a dual mass flywheel, something almost all modern diesels have (to make them feel smoother), and are quite expensive to replace. Some diesels are more prone to this problem than others though.

In general things like the EGR valve and DMF give trouble when a diesel is driven around town most of the time. If you're driving mostly on motorways then you are far less likely to have problems with these. Basically modern diesels have a load of things in them to get them through the emissions tests (because diesel is a dirty smelly fuel) that are not tolerant of town driving.

Personally I would go for the 1.8 if reliability is your number one priority - its design goes back to the 80s when the first Fiesta and Escort diesels were sold so it is very old fashioned by today's standards - but of course that is a good thing in terms of reliability as less technology means less to go wrong!

mailforkev

Father in law had a 1.8 Ghia Focus for a couple of years, think it was 08 (not sure when they moved to the 1.6 engine).

He never had any trouble with it in those 2 years. I drove it a couple of times and it seemed pretty nice to be honest. Drove well and had a good bit of pace.

Was quite well equiped too for what it was. Mind you, I'd say a paddy spec one would be a bit grim to live with.

MrWenger1982

Thanks Mullingar for the straight answer and also taking the time to explain the terms. That's what I needed to hear. I think I'll hold off on the 1.8 and just keep looking/waiting for a good 1.6 to come up. I figured that the 1.6 must be more expensive for a reason. Even a Ford dealer with nothing in stock told me to hold off for a 1.6 even though he had none for sale.

166man

OP I think the 1.8TDCI is quite an old engine but it is reliable apparently. Would you consider something like a Kia Ceed 1.6CRDI?

MrWenger1982

166man, I did look at them but found them to be in short supply compared to the Focus and a similar price range plus the Focus has a great reputation (at least that's what I have heard). I also prefer the cosmetic look of the Focus

Mossess

The other question to ask is how much mileage are you doing a year, and how many years will you be keeping it, then work out how long it will take you to make back the 1500 difference, factoring in the reduced tax etc. And of course if you’re taking a loan out, how much is that extra 1500 extra actually costing you, and would you be better off with it in your pocket.

George Dalton

If it was my money I would buy a 1.8 over a 1.6 every time. There is too much potential for big bills with the 1.6. Ok admittedly the DMF gives more trouble in the 1.8 but a 1.8 with a noisy DMF won't leave you stranded on the side of the road like a 1.6 with a blown turbo will.

MrWenger1982

I have kinda calculated that in my head. I reckon it will cost between €300 and €400 extra in tax if I keep it for 7/8 years. I am not really sure about fuel savings but I do around 15,000 miles per year. I have heard that the 1.6 is more fuel efficient but I don't know the details. I don't need a car loan for this but you could argue I am losing interest on the extra €1,500 I could have in my bank account

Mossess

I’d say go with the 1.8, well actually, you know I’d say go for a Mondeo at half the price or a VW Golf, but if your sticking with a focus then definitely the 1.8 (Or a Golf)

WestWing

mullingar

There are NO perfect diesel engines available.

Just to add, the same PSA 1.6 DV6 engine is also found in Volvo's, Citroens, Peugeots, Mini's, Mazda's and Suzuki's.

Get the 1.6 and service it right.

Leonard Hofstadter

mullingar wrote: »

There are NO perfect diesel engines available.

Just to add, the same PSA 1.6 DV6 engine is also found in Volvo's, Citroens, Peugeots, Mini's, Mazda's and Suzuki's.

Get the 1.6 and service it right.

Although I think the 1.8 is more reliable, most of the problems with the 1.6 are down to owners who don't understand the concept of servicing a car. The 1.6 TDCi has been used in everything from a Mini to a Volvo S80 and obviously you hear more stories about these engines developing problems than other engines simply due to the sheer volume of them sold. Service it on time and you're unlikely to have problems with them.

Tea 1000

Mossess wrote: »

I’d say go with the 1.8, well actually, you know I’d say go for a Mondeo at half the price or a VW Golf, but if your sticking with a focus then definitely the 1.8 (Or a Golf)

Golf's aren't the most reliable car out there. And they're expensive to buy. Combine that with feck all extras and a mediocre engine, and you have what is known as "poor value".
Leave him alone on the Golf, he told you he didn't want one, and I don't blame him!

Mossess

Tea 1000 at the end of the day you get what you pay for.

Leonard Hofstadter

Mossess wrote: »

Tea 1000 at the end of the day you get what you pay for.

Except when you buy a Volkswagen, in which case you don't.

The only thing a VW has over a Ford is the "badge" and soft touch plastics. I prefer a car that drives well and is reliable to be honest. I don't care about soft touch plastics and silicone damped grab handles really, cars are for driving, not for feeling plastics.

cs123

mullingar wrote: »

YES, get the 1.6TDCI.
My wife has a 2006 Focus 1.6TDCI 110hp that was recently de-DPF'd (Diesel particulate filter, ie a fancy expensive soot filter in the exhaust) and remapped to a very nice 130hp with better MPG too! A hoot to drive. :D

A dealer replaced DPF can be upto €1000!!!

A DMF is a dual mass flywheel, a flywheel is a big round cog between the engine and gearbox that balances an engine from MOST of the vibrations (its what the starter motor turns). To lighten the load and to improve economy, the most modern diesels use DMF's which have 2 masses with springs to balance the load which can wear badly. Its a an expensive fix as the clutch is usually changed too.

Hi Mullingar, if you don't mind me asking - where did you get the car's DPF removed? thinking of getting mine done. Opel 1.7cdti.

mullingar

cs123 wrote: »

Hi Mullingar, if you don't mind me asking - where did you get the car's DPF removed? thinking of getting mine done. Opel 1.7cdti.

I did the dirty job myself, removed the box, cut it open, hammer out the honeycomb material, weld it closed, reinstall. the most expensive job was the ECU work. There was 2 ecu jobs, deleting the DPF and the tuning. Contact gary_itr on here who will sort u out

alexlyons

Ok basically it's like this.

If you're prepared to get it serviced and look after it when it needs to be and not put off the expense for a month or two then get the 1.6. If you reckon you may end up delaying servicing (something you shouldn't do anyway but especially not the 1.6) then go for the 1.8.

All the other differences are relatively canceled by a saving on the other car. 1.8 may cost a bit more, but may be less fuel efficient so it very roughly evens out etc

Henry Ford III

alexlyons wrote: »

Ok basically it's like this.

If you're prepared to get it serviced and look after it when it needs to be and not put off the expense for a month or two then get the 1.6. If you reckon you may end up delaying servicing (something you shouldn't do anyway but especially not the 1.6) then go for the 1.8.

All the other differences are relatively canceled by a saving on the other car. 1.8 may cost a bit more, but may be less fuel efficient so it very roughly evens out etc

There is a big difference in power delivery and refinement too. The 1.6 is much more linear, and is also quieter and smoother imho.

mullingar

Henry Ford III wrote: »

There is a big difference in power delivery and refinement too. The 1.6 is much more linear, and is also quieter and smoother imho.

+1

I found the power band is too small on the 1.8.
The 1.6 has a very wide power band so you are not changing gear as often

bazz26

A DPF was fitted to the 110bhp version of the 1.6 TDCi only. The 90bhp version sold upto late 2010 didn't have one. I'd pick up a 09/10 Focus Style 1.6 TDCi which will have the 90bhp engine and they are come with air con, bluetooth and alloy wheels.

nicewine

mullingar wrote: »

+1
I found the power band is too small on the 1.8.
The 1.6 has a very wide power band so you are not changing gear as often

I have '08 Ghia, very happy with it, but I wonder what the differance in fuel economy between mine and a 1.6.

emmetmurphy

nicewine wrote: »

I have '08 Ghia, very happy with it, but I wonder what the differance in fuel economy between mine and a 1.6.

Hi niceswine, what mpg were you getting ?

maidhc

I much prefer the 1.6, much more drivable engine.

I had a 1.8 Mk1 TDCI, which is the exact same engine as in the Mk2 bar slightly less torque. It was good, but needed a flywheel at 85k, and EGR (I think) was gone when I let it go (due to a crash!).

MPG was between 45 and 50, maybe a little more on occasions, sometimes less. It struggled to make 500 miles until the fuel light came on with a tank of 52L or so.

The 1.6 will do 60mpg if you drive like a granny, or 54mpg if you act normal.

Lex Luthor

cant comment on the 1.8 but I ran a 1.6 TDCi as a rental for 2 weeks in Spain. Not sure what the bhp was but I was very impressed with the car. Quality was excellent and decent boot. Lots of motorway driving and it barely used any diesel. Power delivery was very smooth aswell so full of praise
Had a Golf then last yr as a rental, think it was a 1.4 or 1.6 diesel, cant be sure. Hated it from the first min I got into it. No power, bog standard spec. Swapped it after a day for a Galaxy Diesel which was much better to drive.

MrWenger1982

Thanks guys for all the input. I'm still leaning towards a 1.6 based on what I've read. I'm usually pretty good at keeping the car serviced and the cheaper tax and fuel efficiency along with the newer engine is winning me over

Mycroft H

1.6 is a grand engine. Once its serviced with the right spec oil its fine.

Go with the 1.6. Better MPG and lower Co2 emissions

rhonin

I have the 1.6 TDCi. Its a great car but I've run into problems with the DPF. Two months ago I had to get the fuel additive filled which cost €300. Yesterday the engine light came on. I got it cheeked out by my mechanic and he said I need to get the DPF replaced which is going to set me back about €800. I always get it serviced at the required intervals.
Beside all this it's a solid car but be prepared for the DPF!

MrWenger1982

Thanks guys. Opinion seems to be pretty consistent that the 1.6 is the way to go and good to hear from an actual owner of a 1.6 TCDI

Leonard Hofstadter

The DPF problem can be cured by removing it, the DPF is not required for the car to pass the emissions aspect of the NCT. I'd leave it in there until it fails, but as soon as it does I'd be getting the car remapped so it can run without one.

Tea 1000

Mossess wrote: »

Tea 1000 at the end of the day you get what you pay for.

You're deluded by the VW myth I see. What do you get in a Golf that you don't get in a Focus? Please give a detailed reply, not some generic "golf is better" type crap.

Mossess

Tea 1000 wrote: »

You're deluded by the VW myth I see. What do you get in a Golf that you don't get in a Focus? Please give a detailed reply, not some generic "golf is better" type crap.

okay. Honestly it's a few things. My father and brother both love Fords. I don't understand it. One of my brothers Focus's (he has 2) is now parked up, something wrong with the engine. My father’s last focus died of an engine problem too. Yes, he has another. I have one of each, both are 06, both are fully serviced. The Focus seems to cost more to run. The Golf seems to be of stronger build too. The focus seems a little like driving around in a sardine can.

mullingar

Mossess wrote: »

The Focus seems to cost more to run. The Golf seems to be of stronger build too. The focus seems a little like driving around in a sardine can.

Great evidence based arguments there.:pac:

Mossess

Lol, I'm not arguing, just telling you what I think.





But yes, the Golf is better. But seriously how can anyone answer which is better? Quality? Sure there are lots of cars with better quality records. Resale value? Sales? Customer reports? Surely whichever is better is whichever is better for you yourself.

mullingar

http://www.reliabilityindex.com/top-100

According to that link, the Ford Focus is a lot more reliable than a Golf.

Just looking at the results, there are a lot of Fords in the top half compared to VW's.

dr.fuzzenstein

I have an '06 Focus Cmax Zetec 1.8 TDCI.
Bought it with 130k km on it and now (year and a half later) has 205k km on it.
In that time I serviced it every 20k km (with correct spec oil), new filters, and that's about it.
It had a slight electrical fault which caused the engine light to come on at some stage last year (November or so) and another fault due to a chafed wire a few weeks later. Both faults could have been related. Was sorted for E180 by a very friendly Indy garage.
Other than that it has never gone wrong even in the slightest, I find the engine nice, it pulls willingly from low revs all the way to the red line (if I wanted to, but no need to).
The radio is very decent, the speakers loud enough to deafen you and drown out the wife and it can be fitted with an Aux cable very easily.
I really don't think it has a narrow power band.
Some of the old TDDI's would be completely gutless below 2000 rpm, explode above that and run out of steam at 4000, maybe that's what some people are referring to.
It burns almost zero oil and is very comfy, fuel economy can be had at around 50 mpg without having to drive like a Granny and it is quite torque-y. I.e. you can change gears like a taxi driver, i.e. never bother the revcounter above 2000 rpm.

As for "DMF guaranteed to fail at 100k"? Well, 205k km and counting.
It's a lot of scaremongering. I'm sure plenty of these will go forever without fallig apart every few km's.

Leonard Hofstadter

To be fair the 1.8 TDCi does have a reputation for failing DMFs:)! Doesn't mean they're all going to do it obviously. And if the car is mostly driven out of town then it will get a lot further before the DMF fails.

In relation to Fords and reliability, due to the sheer number of them sold you're going to hear of horror stories from time to time. For the most part they are as reliable as anything the Japs make. Usually when a Ford gives trouble it is down to a neglectful owner who doesn't treat the car with the mechanical sympathy it deserves. They rarely give trouble when they're looked after. They're a great car to drive and cost peanuts to run. Even when they do go wrong parts are dirt cheap for them as well.

The only thing against a Ford is that the interior is ever so slightly less classy feeling than a VW (but not by much, and they have a much better feelgood factor than any Toyota has) and snobbery by German car fans, who think a Ford is an inferior made car despite the fact that Fords are on the whole far more reliable than anything ze Germans make.

dr.fuzzenstein

captainspeed wrote: »

and snobbery by German car fans, who think a Ford is an inferior made car despite the fact that Fords are on the whole far more reliable than anything ze Germans make.

Oh man, you got that one right!
Was over in the Heimat and saw very few Fords, in fact in a whole week I saw ONE CMax, we just love home made cars over there.
And it's just misguided, a lot of Fords are made near Cologne.
And to make matters worse, they still think Opel is a German car, they're about as German as Ford, which is yes and no.

George Dalton

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I find the engine nice, it pulls willingly from low revs all the way to the red line (if I wanted to, but no need to).

I find the same. I actually prefer the power delivery of the 1.8 to the 1.6. The 1.8 in a Mondeo is a bit overwhelmed but it suits the Focus just fine IMO.

maidhc

captainspeed wrote: »

To be fair the 1.8 TDCi does have a reputation for failing DMFs:)! Doesn't mean they're all going to do it obviously. And if the car is mostly driven out of town then it will get a lot further before the DMF fails.

I think they improved the DMFs a lot by 06/07.

jimmad

I've had the 1.6 90ps forcus since June and love it, has plenty of poke and comfortable to drive.

On the remapping, would there be any benefit in putting one of the tuning boxes in or are they a placebo as apposed to a proper ecu remap, I assume both would effect your insurance?