Why do the Nazis always come up in debates?

Ranicand · 03-02-2013 11:28PM #1

Who was worse, Hitler or Stalin?

In the second half of the twentieth century, Americans were taught to see both Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union as the greatest of evils. Hitler was worse, because his regime propagated the unprecedented horror of the Holocaust, the attempt to eradicate an entire people on racial grounds. Yet Stalin was also worse, because his regime killed far, far more people, tens of millions it was often claimed, in the endless wastes of the Gulag. For decades, and even today, this confidence about the difference between the two regimes—quality versus quantity—has set the ground rules for the politics of memory. Even historians of the Holocaust generally take for granted that Stalin killed more people than Hitler, thus placing themselves under greater pressure to stress the special character of the Holocaust, since this is what made the Nazi regime worse than the Stalinist one.

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2011/mar/10/hitler-vs-stalin-who-killed-more/?pagination=false

The above debate is a mute point anyway.

Chairman Mao Zedong killed between 20 to 80 million people depending on who you believe.

Hitler was the excess of the right wing.

The other two were the excess of the left wing.

Hitler was evil no doubt what the left wing never is mention Stalin and Mao.

Now some will say but Hitler was racist however Stalin went after and killed countless Christians.

My point in the 20th century the left wing and the likes of Stalin who crated the ideas of hate speech and Political correctness killed far more then the Nazis.

I think the real lesson to be learned is to avoid following like sheep.

All 3 shut down free speech and had gun control.

Biggins · 03-02-2013 11:29PM

What about Pol Pot?
He was also a right wacko responsible for possibly hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of deaths.

Ranicand · 03-02-2013 11:30PM

Biggins wrote: »

What about Pol Pot?
He was also a right wacko responsible for possibly hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of deaths.

Yes forgot about him.

jam_mac_jam · 03-02-2013 11:30PM

Stalin created political correctness? Gun control? Would you ever go and find out what you are talking about. Yes it could be argued that Stalin was worse than Hitler but he had little to do with political correctness.

Lionel Messy · 03-02-2013 11:31PM

Ok

TeddyTedson · 03-02-2013 11:31PM

They were kind of a big deal and it was very recent.
World War 2 shaped the world you live in today. Pre world war 2 was very different and a very tender place.

o1s1n · 03-02-2013 11:31PM

What has gun control got to do with it?

Frankie Lee · 03-02-2013 11:32PM

What about the Brits? They invented concentration camps. Never mind clearing a few million Irish of our land and don't forget arming the Khmer Rouge. Countless other example but I suppose not having a single dictator probably makes them harder to vilify.

brummytom · 03-02-2013 11:33PM

This is the strangest anti-left thread I've seen.

Ranicand · 03-02-2013 11:33PM

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Stalin created political correctness? Gun control? Would you ever go and find out what you are talking about. Yes it could be argued that Stalin was worse than Hitler but he had little to do with political correctness.

Going around calling everybody comrade.

Sending Russians into the other Republics to steal and make collectives out of farms anybody who disagreed was a racist.

Loads of people were sent to re education champs or metal hospitals if they did not agree with Soviet propaganda.

Biggins · 03-02-2013 11:34PM

Frankie Lee wrote: »

What about the Brits? They invented concentration camps.

Was that before or after WW2?
(Genuine question)
I know Leon Uris, the writer, wrote about them in his book Exodus (later made into a film).

Edit: upon reflection, it must of course have been before - since Germany then used such camps.
I had a "DOH!!!" moment!

TheUsual · 03-02-2013 11:34PM

He was a vegetarian.

/end debate

Ranicand · 03-02-2013 11:35PM

o1s1n wrote: »

What has gun control got to do with it?

If a population can not have guns they are sitting ducks.

Stinicker · 03-02-2013 11:35PM

The Nazi's did alot of good things also but these have been airbrushed from History. The Autobahn for example. Nazi's were actually left wing because they were National Socialists, i.e. Socialism for Germans but not other races. Hitler never massacred his own people either compared to Stalin and Chairman Mao. Hitlers big mistake was to attack the Russians before having defeated the UK; the rest is history really; but Communism also whilst flawed had its own good merits and ask any old normal non rich person in Eastern Europe today and most would tell you they had an easier less stressful life with guarantees before the Berlin Wall fell.

mikemac1 · 03-02-2013 11:36PM

Biggins, the Brits used concentration camps during the Boer War

Madam_X · 03-02-2013 11:37PM

Stinicker wrote: »

The Nazi's did alot of good things also but these have been airbrushed from History. The Autobahn for example.

No that has not been airbrushed from history. I mean, you just mentioned it.

Nazi's were actually left wing because they were National Socialists, i.e. Socialism for Germans but not other races. Hitler never massacred his own people either compared to Stalin and Chairman Mao.

Unless they were Jewish/gay Germans. No they weren't left-wing, national socialism is not socialism.

This thread is f'ucking hilarious.

jam_mac_jam · 03-02-2013 11:38PM

Ranicand wrote: »

Going around calling everybody comrade.

Sending Russians into the other Republics to steal and make collectives out of farms anybody who disagreed was a racist.

Loads of people were sent to re education champs or metal hospitals if they did not agree with Soviet propaganda.

Anybody who disagreed was a racist? Do you seriously think that? All of the above are nothing to do with political correctness. Have you been reading right wing web sites for your history?

Yes they sent you to the gulag but it was not for anything to do with racisim. If anything they were very hard on certain groups like the Poles and the jews.

brummytom · 03-02-2013 11:38PM

Biggins wrote: »

Was that before or after WW2?
(Genuine question)

It was during the Boer War.

The young Churchill charged through imperial atrocities, defending each in turn. When concentration camps were built in South Africa, for white Boers, he said they produced "the minimum of suffering". The death toll was almost 28,000, and when at least 115,000 black Africans were likewise swept into British camps, where 14,000 died, he wrote only of his "irritation that Kaffirs should be allowed to fire on white men". Later, he boasted of his experiences there: "That was before war degenerated. It was great fun galloping about."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/not-his-finest-hour-the-dark-side-of-winston-churchill-2118317.html

Duckworth_Luas · 03-02-2013 11:38PM

Always surprised in these debates that John Matrix's body count is ignored.

Probably the greatest killing machine ever!

Ranicand · 03-02-2013 11:38PM

mikemac1 wrote: »

Biggins, the Brits used concentration camps during the Boer War

I would have included the Roman Empire but.:D

Stained Class · 03-02-2013 11:39PM

Adolf Hitler; Not just there for the Nazi things in life.:)

Biggins · 03-02-2013 11:39PM

brummytom wrote: »

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/not-his-finest-hour-the-dark-side-of-winston-churchill-2118317.html

Cheers - I had a "DOH!" moment.

Biggins · 03-02-2013 11:40PM

Stained Class wrote: »

Adolf Hitler; Not just there for the Nazi things in life.:)

How did Hitler get home?
He drove in his folks wagon.

Lapin · 03-02-2013 11:40PM

Because Mr Godwin says so.

My name is URL · 03-02-2013 11:41PM

Isn't there a restaurant in Duberlin named after Chairman Mao?*

You even see idiots walking around in t-shirts with his face plastered on the front of it! People are stupid

*

There are pictures of Chairman Mao done in a Warhol pastiche in primary colours that add to the freshness of Café Mao.

http://www.dublinks.com/index.cfm/loc/17/pt/0/spid/E7993AA6-BE3E-42B1-AB9E440AA82A5117.htm

ffs!

Ranicand · 03-02-2013 11:41PM

Lapin wrote: »

Because Mr Godwin says so.

Best answer yet.

Ranicand · 03-02-2013 11:41PM

My name is URL wrote: »

Isn't there a restaurant in Duberlin named after Chairman Mao?

You even see idiots walking around in t-shirts with his face plastered on the front of it! People are stupid

Yes I was thinking that too.

Frankie Lee · 03-02-2013 11:42PM

Ranicand wrote: »

Loads of people were sent to re education champs or metal hospitals if they did not agree with Soviet propaganda.

Us Irish were worse.

Irish society was deeply complicit in the incarceration of women and girls in the laundries. In what has been described as a culture of containment, Ireland locked up more of its citizens per capita than anywhere else in the world – not in prisons, but in psychiatric hospitals, Magdalene laundries and industrial schools. Anyone who did not fit within the cruelly narrow definition of good behaviour was in danger.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jun/08/irealnd-magdalene-laundries-scandal-un

Stinicker · 03-02-2013 11:43PM

Madam_X wrote: »

No that has not been airbrushed from history. I mean, you just mentioned it.

Unless they were Jewish/gay Germans. No they weren't left-wing, national socialism is not socialism.

This thread is f'ucking hilarious.

Judaism is a religion but back then it was classified as a race because Jews kept to themselves and were thus their own group within Germany. Nazism was an extreme ideology and at at the heart of it was left wing ideals, National Socialism run on racial grounds, it was was not communistic in nature with collectivity etc. but it was socialism for white Aryan blonde Germans, the master race who should dominate all other "inferior" races. This was the ideals and the socialism for Germans has been overshadowed by the racial war and Nazi atrocities.

Madam_X · 03-02-2013 11:47PM

Frankie Lee wrote: »

Us Irish were worse.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jun/08/irealnd-magdalene-laundries-scandal-un

Fuk me, the blame-the-wrong-people brigade are out in full force tonight on AH.

No, "us" Irish were NOT worse than the Soviet regime.

Unless there was an equivalent genocide here... Oh yeh, there wasn't.

Dyr · 03-02-2013 11:49PM

Ranicand wrote: »

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2011/mar/10/hitler-vs-stalin-who-killed-more/?pagination=false

The above debate is a mute point anyway.

Chairman Mao Zedong killed between 20 to 80 million people depending on who you believe.

Hitler was the excess of the right wing.

The other two were the excess of the left wing.

Hitler was evil no doubt what the left wing never is mention Stalin and Mao.

Now some will say but Hitler was racist however Stalin went after and killed countless Christians.

My point in the 20th century the left wing and the likes of Stalin who crated the ideas of hate speech and Political correctness killed far more then the Nazis.

I think the real lesson to be learned is to avoid following like sheep.

All 3 shut down free speech and had gun control.

Its just because the nazi's were really good debaters, the master debate even.

Why do the Nazis always come up in debates?

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