Feb 9th Protest - will you be joining?

WakeUp · 02-02-2013 05:06PM

jank wrote: »

The Irish public is like the boy who cried wolf. Moan about everything and then the serious stuff gets through unnoticed. What is the aim of the protest. What is the objective. If hey are just a means to be angry it's a waste of time. Better off organising at the polls.

Hows life treating you in Sydney? are you aware of the suffering of people back home? people keep asking what the objective is?? are you lot paying attention or just being obtuse on purpose? The Irish people dont moan about everything we are being wrongly screwed. This battle isnt just about out generations its about future generations why should they have to suffer too.

rolliepoley · 02-02-2013 05:11PM

They can march in this country till the cows come home and it still wont redeem anything and the simple answer is that there is no comradery, all for one and one for all, instead what we have is every man for himself whitch will never ever work.

jank · 02-02-2013 05:11PM

WakeUp wrote: »

Hows life treating you in Sydney? are you aware of the suffering of people back home? people keep asking what the objective is?? are you lot paying attention or just being obtuse on purpose? The Irish people dont moan about everything we are being wrongly screwed. This battle isnt just about out generations its about future generations why should they have to suffer too.

What suffering? I was back twice the last year. Plenty of eating and drinking never mind shopping to be had by all. That's what I saw anyway. People would swear that Ireland was like Germany in 1945. Ireland is still one of the richest countries in the world. What we can't afford anymore though ism one of the highest paid public sectors in the world. Unions have too much power in Ireland.

WakeUp · 02-02-2013 05:13PM

Stained Class wrote: »

This doesn't help much.

Nor does calling people like me lazy and apothetic.

People like me work hard, pay taxes & are too hard pressed to take a day off to run along side Shinners & Skangers.

I don't spend my days sitting by the fire eating crisps y'know.

Shame on you. People with your attitude is whats wrong with this country and is a barrier to us uniting as one cohesive unit and affecting change in my opinion of course. So anyone who protests is either a skanger or a shinner? yeah ok whatever what a stupid ill thought out comment to make.

WakeUp · 02-02-2013 05:18PM

jank wrote: »

What suffering? I was back twice the last year. Plenty of eating and drinking never mind shopping to be had by all. That's what I saw anyway. People would swear that Ireland was like Germany in 1945. Ireland is still one of the richest countries in the world. What we can't afford anymore though ism one of the highest paid public sectors in the world. Unions have too much power in Ireland.

Ah well youve been back twice, on holiday , what suffering?? is that a serious comment or do you live in a bubble. "Thats what I saw anyway" well thats that isnt it **** must be rosey and just grand. You talk of "we" yet live in Australia and are obviously oblivious to the hardships being foisted upon, wrongly, to the average man and woman on the street.

02-02-2013 05:19PM

WakeUp wrote: »

Shame on you. People with your attitude is whats wrong with this country.

Here I thought it was the bankers, jayz

Cancel the protest lads, we've found the culprit

WakeUp · 02-02-2013 05:20PM

WallyGUFC wrote: »

We're all economists in here it seems. I'd love to see people here try to run the country. Protesting won't make a blind bit of difference apart from wasting Garda man hours and inconveniencing people going about their daily business i.e. it will achieve nothing.

Nonsense. Go read a history book and I think you will find that people power and getting out on the streets as brought about change since the dawn of time.

franktheplank · 02-02-2013 05:21PM

homerjay2005 wrote: »

if a march was started to cut our spending on social welfare and invest the money in job creation instead, would you support it?

I think that if you look at the figures you'd see there's actually huge room for cutting spending in the Dept of Social Protection without cutting welfare payments.

Before I start, I'm currently unemployed (through no fault of my own), I'm doing a springboard course and am confident to be back to work soon (having spent many years paying taxes). I find the 158 euros I live on (after rent) to be very hard to get by on, especially when I have to meet the costs of attending college.

The total budget for the dept of social protection is approx 20 billion, which is rightly seen as a huge burden on public finances. What's often overlooked is that just 4 billion of this goes to unemployment payments (and this at a time of particularly high unemployment). A lot goes on pensions, a lot goes on disability/lone parents payments. But by my estimates about 6-8 billion goes in some form to 'public servants'.

Aside from the half a billion spent yearly directly administering welfare payments, what's often overlooked is that this dept funds an awful lot of quango like 'not-for-profit' organizations. FAS is the one that's most well known, but there are a huge amount of training, anti-discrimination, community, advocacy groups etc that are funded under the guise of our welfare budget.

Most of these groups will have well paid CEO's, mgmt, professional administrators, advocates, community workers etc. In essence we have a 'poverty industry' in this country. While a small amount of this might be necessary to retrain people etc an awful lot of it has no real justification or proof of worth, other than to provide employment for middle-class professionals.

Aside from my own experiences, I know a good few unemployed people and I've never heard anyone praise or speak positively of the work done by these groups. A lot of their work is considered interference or just a nuisance by the people their supposedly working to advocate for/re-integrate to the workplace, protect from disadvantage, or whatever other nonsense you're having

My two cent's if something has to be cut, cut this!

WakeUp · 02-02-2013 05:22PM

bluewolf wrote: »

Here I thought it was the bankers, jayz

Cancel the protest lads, we've found the culprit

Well if it was up to people like you we would continue to be walked all over with no end in sight. I believe its simmering under the surface and eventually people will stand up. The question people like you and others on their snidey horses need to ask yourself is are you gona stand with us or against us.

WakeUp · 02-02-2013 05:25PM

68 lost souls wrote: »

NO!

A protest of any sort is a waste of resources, we are in debt there is no way a protest of any sort will change that. If people organising the protests put that effort into organising startups or taking advantage of the budget benefits for research and design then we could maybe do something about the debt.

Guarda budgets are being cut and spending Money on policing these needless protests could have been spent to keep stations open.

Many many more reasons I disagree with protesting. Suck it up, get on with it and start getting ourselves out of debt rather than complaining about it.

How do you know a protest or standing up to the people raping our country and people wont change things. Do you have a crystal ball? consult it much?

jank · 02-02-2013 05:25PM

WakeUp wrote: »

Ah well youve been back twice, on holiday , what suffering?? is that a serious comment or do you live in a bubble. "Thats what I saw anyway" well thats that isnt it **** must be rosey and just grand. You talk of "we" yet live in Australia and are obviously oblivious to the hardships being foisted upon, wrongly, to the average man and woman on the street.

Again how do you define hardship? Want to see hardship? Go to Africa. Was there as well last year. I can tell you right now which place had the better standard of living for he average man/woman.

By all means have your protest, it's a free country and all but it's a general waste of time if there are no clear objectives or goals to be achieved. It's more of a " sure lets do something" , " it will make me feel better".

bnt · 02-02-2013 05:27PM

Debt is not a problem in itself. It's just a number. But debt has costs attached, and anyone who lends you money expects to get paid for doing so. If you can borrow cheaply - great! But if you don't pay off your debts in time, and try to borrow more, expect to pay a lot for the privilege.

Ireland is in the latter situation, and I have no idea what a protest will do to change the economic situation. It's not the same in the USA, where the Federal Govt. can still borrow at low rates.

hatrickpatrick · 02-02-2013 05:30PM

68 lost souls wrote: »

NO!

A protest of any sort is a waste of resources, we are in debt there is no way a protest of any sort will change that. If people organising the protests put that effort into organising startups or taking advantage of the budget benefits for research and design then we could maybe do something about the debt.

Guarda budgets are being cut and spending Money on policing these needless protests could have been spent to keep stations open.

Many many more reasons I disagree with protesting. Suck it up, get on with it and start getting ourselves out of debt rather than complaining about it.

Why SHOULD we put up with paying bank debt? National debt sure, but bank investors can go f*ck themselves if they think they'll be taking money out of my pocket to pay for their own mistakes made through their own mind boggling stupidity. Not my problem and not yours.
Just because a corrupt former government saddled us all with that debt in order to protect their golfing buddies doesn't make it morally justified. Why should we accept it without a fight? Can you give one genuine reason why I should just bend over instead of making it as hard for them as possible?

To paraphrase the general from Matrix Revolutions: "I'm going to say this as simply as I can. If it's our time to die, it's our time. All I ask is, IF we have to give these bastards our lives.... WE GIVE 'EM HELL BEFORE WE DO."

If they're going to take our money, their lives are going to be made an absolute f*cking misery while they're at it. I honestly don't see why anyone opposes that. They have no right to it and rolling over is not going to help ANYONE.

ilovesleep · 02-02-2013 05:31PM

I'm holding some mixed bags really.

I can see that we have a deficit. The country not taking in enough money & that deficit has to close because money & lending is dry & the markets where the government borrow from were/are closed off from us. So the government has gone the route of austerity for this. Which is counterproductive because it takes money out from local economies & this leads to unemployment which adds to the governments spending &a lower tax take & then deficit is slow to close if at all. So it leads us around in circles.

Then there's the governments method to close this deficit - ie raising taxes, &cutting spending as a whole has been limited. There's many problems in Ireland & 1 is the governments spending. Raising taxes might help at raising revenue but it will do fcuk all in relation to the deficit. Spending should be matched to GNP.

I could go on & on here but I think I'll leave it for now & come back to it later. But yeah I think I'll go protesting next week.

WakeUp · 02-02-2013 05:32PM

jank wrote: »

Again how do you define hardship? Want to see hardship? Go to Africa. Was there as well last year. I can tell you right now which place had the better standard of living for he average man/woman.

By all means have your protest, it's a free country and all but it's a general waste of time if there are no clear objectives or goals to be achieved. It's more of a " sure lets do something" , " it will make me feel better".

Well Im glad its ok with you from the comfort of Australia that we can get out and protest if we so choose. I know all about the hardships of Africa though not wanting to sound crass it isnt the issue. The issue is our people our country not Africa. The objective is quite clear. Reduce the debt we have been wrongly saddled with its all very simple really.

hatrickpatrick · 02-02-2013 05:33PM

ilovesleep wrote: »

I'm holding some mixed bags really.

I can see that we have a deficit. The country not taking in enough money and that deficit has to close because money and lending is dry and the markets where the government borrow from were/are closed off from us. So the government has gone the route of austerity for this. Which is counterproductive because it takes money out from local economies and this leads to unemployment which adds to the governments spending and a lower tax take and then deficit is slow to close if at all. So it leads us around in circles.

Then there's is the governments method to close this deficit - ie raising taxes, and cutting spending as a whole has been limited. The problem is spending and raising taxes might help at raising revenue but it will do fcuk all in relation to the deficit.

And I go on and on here but I think I'll leave it for now and come back to it later. But yeah I think I'll go protesting next week.

None of that is in any way related to this protest, this protest is specifically and solely directed against bank debt. It's not about the deficit, general debt levels, austerity etc.

It's about a guy walking into a bookie, backing the wrong horse, and then mugging everyone else in the shop to recover the money he lost on the horse. That's literally what this is all about. Nothing more.

dvpower · 02-02-2013 05:34PM

WakeUp wrote: »

What planet do you live on? [...]

WakeUp wrote: »

[...] What is it about that, that you and your ilk cant get through your head?...

WakeUp wrote: »

Shame on you. People with your attitude is whats wrong with this country [...]

WakeUp wrote: »

Well if it was up to people like you [...]

Are you always this angry?

WakeUp · 02-02-2013 05:37PM

dvpower wrote: »

Are you always this angry?

Dont confuse anger with wanting to see change. Weve dont the whole be good Europeans suck it up and do what we are told and all its done has got us nowhere and being thrown back in our faces. Are you always so indifferent to your country and people being raped wrongly by a foreign entity??

Madam_X · 02-02-2013 05:40PM

rolliepoley wrote: »

They can march in this country till the cows come home and it still wont redeem anything and the simple answer is that there is no comradery, all for one and one for all, instead what we have is every man for himself whitch will never ever work.

Do you not see the irony of that statement?

Yes Jank, it's true Ireland is overall a grand country to live in in terms of quality of life, but that's not all there is to it. The economy is still screwed. The future still looks bleak. Ordinary people are paying for their mistakes during the boom, now it's only fair the powerful elites do so too. It is indeed a two-way street, but only one group seems to be having to clean up the mess.

jank · 02-02-2013 05:43PM

WakeUp wrote: »

Well Im glad its ok with you from the comfort of Australia that we can get out and protest if we so choose. I know all about the hardships of Africa though not wanting to sound crass it isnt the issue. The issue is our people our country not Africa. The objective is quite clear. Reduce the debt we have been wrongly saddled with its all very simple really.

If the issue then is not Africa are you going to protest the foreign aid it gets every year? A few billion to be saved there! Or is it more of " we hate the banks" make the times boomer again, please"

Australia rewards those who want to work yet three are still the same type of lefty socialst looneys here complaining about this or that. Very amusing really. People would rather camp out in martins place protesting against the Australian federal reserve instead of making a living. Hey it's a free country but seriously stop kidding use that you have some altruistic higher cause.

dvpower · 02-02-2013 05:45PM

WakeUp wrote: »

Dont confuse anger with wanting to see change. Weve dont the whole be good Europeans suck it up and do what we are told and all its done has got us nowhere and being thrown back in our faces. Are you always so indifferent to your country and people being raped wrongly by a foreign entity??

We're not being raped by anyone.
Our Government provided a blanket guarantee - a stupid decision - and now we are paying for it.

Trying to put this all on some 'foreign entity' is just plain silly. You should just be thankful that the Government aren't taking the hysterical approach that you are.

My name is URL · 02-02-2013 05:47PM

bluewolf wrote: »

Here I thought it was the bankers, jayz

Cancel the protest lads, we've found the culprit

I thought you had leanings towards libertarianism? Surely libertarians are opposed to the continuing socialisation of private debt by government.. or is it only when private profits are interfered with by governments that libertarians speak up? :P

WakeUp · 02-02-2013 05:50PM

jank wrote: »

If the issue then is not Africa are you going to protest the foreign aid it gets every year? A few billion to be saved there! Or is it more of " we hate the banks" make the times boomer again, please"

Australia rewards those who want to work yet three are still the same type of lefty socialst looneys here complaining about this or that. Very amusing really. People would rather camp out in martins place protesting against the Australian federal reserve instead of making a living. Hey it's a free country but seriously stop kidding use that you have some altruistic higher cause.

What are you on about? Are you calling me a lefty socialist looney is that what you are resorting too?? I dont care what goes on in Australia. I care what happens here to my people and my country what has Australia got to do with anything? You dont even live here yet you seem to know it all.

02-02-2013 05:50PM

My name is URL wrote: »

I thought you had leanings towards libertarianism? Surely libertarians are opposed to the continuing socialisation of private debt by government.. or is it only when private profits are interfered with by governments that libertarians speak up? :P

I've already posted against it earlier in the thread

I have no objection to this protest, let them go protest all they like - but when it's not a coherent "we have this specific problem" and more of a general rant about things in general, then I'm not going to take part

WakeUp wrote: »

Hows life treating you in Sydney?.

WakeUp wrote: »

I dont care what goes on in Australia. I care what happens here to my people and my country what has Australia got to do with anything?

Why'd you ask about it so?

123 LC · 02-02-2013 05:51PM

protesting against bank debt? what does that even mean? :L

you'd swear it was something that could actually be changed like a law or something....it's not like the banks want to be in debt.

WakeUp · 02-02-2013 05:52PM

dvpower wrote: »

We're not being raped by anyone.
Our Government provided a blanket guarantee - a stupid decision - and now we are paying for it.

Trying to put this all on some 'foreign entity' is just plain silly. You should just be thankful that the Government aren't taking the hysterical approach that you are.

Im not being hysterical far from it. Why should I pay for the governments stupid decision why should any of us pay for it? why??..

ilovesleep · 02-02-2013 05:52PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

None of that is in any way related to this protest, this protest is specifically and solely directed against bank debt. It's not about the deficit, general debt levels, austerity etc.

It's about a guy walking into a bookie, backing the wrong horse, and then mugging everyone else in the shop to recover the money he lost on the horse. That's literally what this is all about. Nothing more.

Ah I see! I didn't read through the thread so I didn't know that the protest was solely for the banking debt but now that I know I'm definately going.

rolliepoley · 02-02-2013 05:52PM

Madam_X wrote: »

Do you not see the irony of that statement?

Yes Jank, it's true Ireland is overall a grand country to live in in terms of quality of life, but that's not all there is to it. The economy is still screwed. The future still looks bleak. Ordinary people are paying for their mistakes during the boom, now it's only fair the powerful elites do so too. It is indeed a two-way street, but only one group seems to be having to clean up the mess.

Err no i dont, please explain.

My name is URL · 02-02-2013 05:53PM

bluewolf wrote: »

I've already posted against it earlier in the thread

Fair enough, so if you're against it would you not support attempts to stop it.. even if they prove to be futile?

Why all the degradation of people that are actually demonstrating their opposition? (generally I mean... not aimed at you in particular)

Madam_X · 02-02-2013 05:53PM

Saying a march = no cameraderie.

Feb 9th Protest - will you be joining?

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