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Immigrants that come to Ireland then run the country down all the time

24

Comments

  • #32
    Gyalist
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,537 ✭✭✭Gyalist


    I've always seen this "immigrants should integrate" lark as a trap. I refuse to integrate or assimilate.


  • #33
    johnnycarrick
    Site Banned Posts: 49 ✭johnnycarrick


    Nodin wrote: »
    ....and again, what did he say?

    Nothing. He just sat and listened. Then he turned over what I had said and I think it sank in.


  • #34
    Sam Kade
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,297 ✭✭✭✭Sam Kade


    Bipolar Joe wrote: »
    Fair point, I think? People can say what they want regardless of where they're from and where they currently are. Disagreements are also allowed. Just telling someone to shut up isn't much of a rebuttal, more a lack of one.
    But he didn't tell him to shut up.


  • #35
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    johnnycarrick wrote: »
    Nothing. He just sat and listened. Then he turned over what I had said and I think it sank in.

    No, The "running down". What exactly did he say?


  • #36
    Airitech
    Closed Accounts Posts: 158 ✭✭Airitech


    Nodin wrote: »
    No, The "running down". What exactly did he say?

    McDonald's is better than Supermac's.


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  • #37
    risteard7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 879 ✭✭✭risteard7


    Wils110 wrote: »
    I agree with the op....you don't go to Eddie rockets moan About the food then keep going back everyday if your not happy go somewhere else...

    If Irish lads in Australia moaned to Australians about the Aussies and the country they be told to F:/€ off... Nothing wrong with having some pride

    no your not allowed have pride or question anything anymore. you just sit back and keep your mouth shut. at least england are starting to smartin up there immigration laws.


  • #38
    johnnycarrick
    Site Banned Posts: 49 ✭johnnycarrick


    Gyalist wrote: »
    I've always seen this "immigrants should integrate" lark as a trap. I refuse to integrate or assimilate.

    I don't think immigrants should integrate either. That's what enriches a country; being mixed and multi-cultural.
    Where you get a large population of any single ethnic group in a town or city it quickly becomes a ghetto. There has to be a balance between integration, and keeping your identity.
    All I am saying is that you shouldn't emigrate, and then run down the country and its people. If you do, then you have to be prepared to take the consequences, and that might mean being told to go home to where you come from.
    I think the Irish are one of the most tolerant of European countries when it comes to accepting immigrants. And most immigrants that have chosen to come here like it, and don't run down the country or its people. They have respect.
    But there are some immigrants here that run down Ireland and the Irish, even though the life they have here is much better than the life they left behind.
    If I didn't like it here myself I would emigrate. I wouldn't stay here and run teh country down. What does that achieve? It just upsets people. Maybe the truth hurts? But we don't need to hear it sometimes.


  • #39
    dotsman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,636 ✭✭✭dotsman


    Shams wrote: »
    Complaining about the Country and its people?

    Sounds like hes become more Irish than the Irish

    Exactly. Sounds like the immigrant has been living here too long and is merely assimilating! In no time at all, he'll be swearing on the magical healing abilities of flat 7up, the amazingness of taytos and agreeing that puking on the streets at 4 o'clock in the morning is "having the craic".

    OP - what's wrong with him pointing out and discussing the flaws in irish society? In many ways he is more qualified as he has the advantage of been an outsider looking in. Also, I've never met an irish person living abroad who hasn't something to complain/laugh about regarding their host country. Nowhere is perfect, regardless of where you are in the world, you should always be free to talk about the flaws in your society and trying to improve the situation. Just because you are not born somewhere does not mean you must just "put up and shut up".

    Regards wanting him to go home just because he didn't tell you that Ireland is perfect and every Irish person is amazing...
    johnnycarrick wrote: »
    I am no racist...
    ...I agree - you are definitely not racist in anyway :rolleyes:


  • #40
    Pottler
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,073 ✭✭✭Pottler


    johnnycarrick wrote: »
    True story. I swear on my Mother's life (RIP).
    Isn't it funny how the truth is less believable than fiction sometimes?
    For the record, I am no story teller. I just tell it how it is.
    You said it right there, tbf. Also, get a life, he said she said we said. who cares? What did he do, dint your Irish pride? The Wolfetones are crying out for you.


  • #41
    Zebra3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,299 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    johnnycarrick wrote: »
    I don't think immigrants should integrate either.

    Of course they should.

    Why should they remain aloof from society? :confused:


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  • #42
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    johnnycarrick wrote: »
    I don't think (..........)it sometimes.

    Recently I witnessed an immigrant who had come to Ireland running down the country to an Irish man. The Irish man took so much, and held his tongue. But it went on, and on, and then the immigrant started to run down the Irish.

    What exactly did the immigrant say to "run down the Irish".


  • #43
    johnnycarrick
    Site Banned Posts: 49 ✭johnnycarrick


    Nodin wrote: »
    No, The "running down". What exactly did he say?

    I am not going to repeat what he said. Suffice it to say that it was offensive enough to make a man snap.
    In fairness, what he said about Ireland was nothing more than the Irish have said.
    However running down Irish people was one step too far. Maybe he was right about the Irish, and the truth hurts; but he should have had respect and kept his opinions to himself.
    When you emigrate to another country, you have to remember you are a guest of that country, and respect their culture, religion, politics, social views etc. You may not agree with them, but you have to know when to keep that to yourself.
    By and large immigrants are welcomed to Ireland by the Irish, but that is because they have respect and don't run down Ireland and the Irish.
    What upsets me is that someone would come here and feel they can do that.


  • #44
    wolfpawnat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,124 ✭✭✭wolfpawnat


    I know one immigrant that is like this, but that said I know more than a few immigrants in general, as many people do these days. I think a moan is fine, I think even stating that other countries may have better goods and services is fine, because it is personal opinion and well we are all entitled to one, but this person does nothing but belittle Ireland and the Irish, and I do find myself wondering "If we and our country are that bad, then why are you still here, there are 194 other recognised states on this planet, why are you here if we are so bad?" But as I said this is ONE person I have experience with and as a result of her horrible litany of comments, I no longer interact with her. Every other immigrant I have spoken to may make a comment or two about one or two topics, but also compliments other things we have because well, that's normal of everyone.


  • #45
    Pottler
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,073 ✭✭✭Pottler


    Nodin wrote: »
    What exactly did the immigrant say to "run down the Irish".
    He probably said some Irish people didn't like immigrants. which then got used against him in a court of "if I say the word 'Irish' enough, everyone will start sweating and moshing and loving me"


  • #46
    Zebra3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,299 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    johnnycarrick wrote: »
    What upsets me is that someone would come here and feel they can do that.

    So you're against free speech then? :rolleyes:


  • #47
    Gyalist
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,537 ✭✭✭Gyalist


    risteard7 wrote: »
    no your not allowed have pride or question anything anymore. you just sit back and keep your mouth shut. at least england are starting to smartin up there immigration laws.

    I must have missed the memo where the UK forbade immigrants from saying anything derogatory about the country. I'm sure you can enlighten me.
    johnnycarrick wrote: »
    I don't think immigrants should integrate either. That's what enriches a country; being mixed and multi-cultural.
    Where you get a large population of any single ethnic group in a town or city it quickly becomes a ghetto. There has to be a balance between integration, and keeping your identity.
    All I am saying is that you shouldn't emigrate, and then run down the country and its people. If you do, then you have to be prepared to take the consequences, and that might mean being told to go home to where you come from.
    I think the Irish are one of the most tolerant of European countries when it comes to accepting immigrants. And most immigrants that have chosen to come here like it, and don't run down the country or its people. They have respect.
    But there are some immigrants here that run down Ireland and the Irish, even though the life they have here is much better than the life they left behind.
    If I didn't like it here myself I would emigrate. I wouldn't stay here and run teh country down. What does that achieve? It just upsets people. Maybe the truth hurts? But we don't need to hear it sometimes.

    I think we have completely different interpretations of what integrating means.

    Anyway, one man's "running down" is another man's constructive criticism.


  • #48
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,236 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    johnnycarrick wrote: »
    He took on board what I said, and I never heard him run down Ireland or the Irish again.

    I thought this thread was about immigrants who run the country down ALL THE TIME? Or did you make a mistake on the thread title? Should it have been "A story about this one immigrant who gave out about Ireland once"?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #49
    orestes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,972 ✭✭✭orestes


    johnnycarrick wrote: »
    I am not going to repeat what he said. Suffice it to say that it was offensive enough to make a man snap.

    Oh best not repeat it here old chap, you run the risk of making the ladyfolk swoon! Jolly good show for putting that heathen straight, Johnny Foreigner must learn his place what what?

    *puffs on pipe*


  • #50
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    johnnycarrick wrote: »
    I am not going to repeat what he said. Suffice it to say that it was offensive enough to make a man snap.
    In fairness, what he said about Ireland was nothing more than the Irish have said.
    However running down Irish people was one step too far. Maybe he was right about the Irish, and the truth hurts; but he should have had respect and kept his opinions to himself.
    When you emigrate to another country, you have to remember you are a guest of that country, and respect their culture, religion, politics, social views etc. You may not agree with them, but you have to know when to keep that to yourself.
    By and large immigrants are welcomed to Ireland by the Irish, but that is because they have respect and don't run down Ireland and the Irish.
    What upsets me is that someone would come here and feel they can do that.


    Ye want to know what I think?


  • #51
    johnnycarrick
    Site Banned Posts: 49 ✭johnnycarrick


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    Of course they should.

    Why should they remain aloof from society? :confused:

    Integration doesn't work.
    Multiculturalism works to a degree when there is a common language or religion that ethnic groups can share.
    Take France for example, Arabic Muslims are not integrating with the French.
    The problem is cultural. The French do not overtly express religious beliefs, they keep them private and reserved. However the Arabic people that come to France are trying to impose their overt Muslim faith on the French.
    This clash of culture is causing friction between the French and Arab immigrants.
    They are just too different culturally to integrate, it can never work.
    Its no different to the cultural apartheid that exists in the North between the Orange Order and Republicans. They will never be able to integrate with each others cultures.
    Palestinians and Jews in Israel is yet another example, and it goes on and on, the world over.
    Immigrants just need to respect the people of the country they are in, and likewise the people need to be tolerant of the immigrants beliefs.


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  • #52
    Aliana
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 47 ✭Aliana


    johnnycarrick wrote: »
    As bad as Ireland is, and its people; I don't think immigrants should come here and run it down.... I for one am sick of people doing this. I have pride in my people and my country.

    Sorta seems like you're 'running it down' there Johnny. How bad is it? Do you usually take pride in bad things you have no control over?
    johnnycarrick wrote: »
    I don't have a problem with immigrants coming to Ireland, they are welcome as far as I am concerned. I just have a problem listening to them running Ireland and the Irish down that's all.

    Has this happened to you a lot?
    johnnycarrick wrote: »
    I don't think immigrants should integrate either. That's what enriches a country; being mixed and multi-cultural.
    Where you get a large population of any single ethnic group in a town or city it quickly becomes a ghetto. There has to be a balance between integration, and keeping your identity.
    All I am saying is that you shouldn't emigrate, and then run down the country and its people. If you do, then you have to be prepared to take the consequences, and that might mean being told to go home to where you come from.
    I think the Irish are one of the most tolerant of European countries when it comes to accepting immigrants. And most immigrants that have chosen to come here like it, and don't run down the country or its people. They have respect.
    But there are some immigrants here that run down Ireland and the Irish, even though the life they have here is much better than the life they left behind.
    If I didn't like it here myself I would emigrate. I wouldn't stay here and run teh country down. What does that achieve? It just upsets people. Maybe the truth hurts? But we don't need to hear it sometimes.

    Wowza.
    johnnycarrick wrote: »
    Integration doesn't work.
    Multiculturalism works to a degree when there is a common language or religion that ethnic groups can share.
    Take France for example, Arabic Muslims are not integrating with the French.
    The problem is cultural. The French do not overtly express religious beliefs, they keep them private and reserved. However the Arabic people that come to France are trying to impose their overt Muslim faith on the French.
    This clash of culture is causing friction between the French and Arab immigrants.
    They are just too different culturally to integrate, it can never work.
    Its no different to the cultural apartheid that exists in the North between the Orange Order and Republicans. They will never be able to integrate with each others cultures.
    Palestinians and Jews in Israel is yet another example, and it goes on and on, the world over.
    Immigrants just need to respect the people of the country they are in, and likewise the people need to be tolerant of the immigrants beliefs.

    Can't really disagree with an argument as sophisticated as that. You know your stuff man.


  • #53
    Zebra3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,299 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    johnnycarrick wrote: »
    Integration doesn't work.

    :rolleyes:

    Of course it works.

    I know plenty of people who have moved to Ireland and integrated into society.

    Likewise I know plenty of Irish people who have moved abroad and one likewise.

    Are you actually saying that no foreign people have integrated into Irish society?


  • #54
    Fox_In_Socks
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,615 ✭✭✭Fox_In_Socks


    Nodin wrote: »
    Ye want to know what I think?

    Do we have to?:pac:


  • #55
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,236 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Nodin wrote: »
    Ye want to know what I think?

    Yep

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #56
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    mango salsa wrote: »
    Yep

    Yez may want to sit down for this..............

    He made the whole thing up so he could start a clusterfuck about immigrants.


  • #57
    johnnycarrick
    Site Banned Posts: 49 ✭johnnycarrick


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    :rolleyes:

    Of course it works.

    I know plenty of people who have moved to Ireland and integrated into society.

    Likewise I know plenty of Irish people who have moved abroad and one likewise.

    Are you actually saying that no foreign people have integrated into Irish society?

    Read my post above yours again for further clarification.
    I cannot explain it to you in a simpler way.
    If you still cannot understand, then I will agree we have different views and I accept that.


  • #58
    Zebra3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,299 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Nodin wrote: »
    Yez may want to sit down for this..............

    He made the whole thing up so he could start a clusterfuck about immigrants.

    Hmmm...I dunno. Somebody (a foreigner no less!) said something bad about Ireland in somebody's front room!!!

    This sort of stuff needs to be nipped in the bud.

    A good old kristallnacht on foreigners should get the ball rolling.


  • #59
    Airitech
    Closed Accounts Posts: 158 ✭✭Airitech


    Nodin wrote: »
    Yez may want to sit down for this..............

    fuck immigrants.

    Fcuking racist. :)

    I knew you'd show your true colours eventually.


  • #60
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    johnnycarrick wrote: »
    Read my post above yours again for further clarification...............


    Why should he? It's a bunch of simplistic nonsense and inaccurate tosh.


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  • #61
    Zebra3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,299 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    johnnycarrick wrote: »
    Read my post above yours again for further clarification.
    I cannot explain it to you in a simpler way.
    If you still cannot understand, then I will agree we have different views and I accept that.

    I did read it.

    You said integration doesn't work.

    It does!!!

    Immigration fails when immigrants don't integrate.

    You really need to stop digging.


This discussion has been closed.
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