Immigrants that come to Ireland then run the country down all the time

johnnycarrick

Recently I witnessed an immigrant who had come to Ireland running down the country to an Irish man. The Irish man took so much, and held his tongue. But it went on, and on, and then the immigrant started to run down the Irish.
At this point the Irish man snapped, and said; how dare you come to my country and run down my people? Don't you ever dare run down the Irish or Ireland. If you don't like it here, then why did you come? Go home if you don't like us or our country.
This made me think. Would I emigrate to another country and start running down its people or the country? I think not.
As bad as Ireland is, and its people; I don't think immigrants should come here and run it down. The Irish run down their own people, and country enough as it is.
I for one am sick of people doing this. I have pride in my people and my country.
That is why I am not emigrating, I am living through the recession. Its hard enough to do that as it is, without listening to people running the country down.
After much thought, I thought the Irish man that put the immigrant down had a point. He stood up for what he believed in; Ireland and the Irish.
What do you think? Was he right or wrong to do that?

Hilly Bill

I see your point but anyone has he right to moan about this country if they wish regardless of where they are from.

Iwasfrozen

johnnycarrick wrote: »

Recently I witnessed an immigrant who had come to Ireland running down the country to an Irish man. The Irish man took so much, and held his tongue. But it went on, and on, and then the immigrant started to run down the Irish.
At this point the Irish man snapped, and said; how dare you come to my country and run down my people? Don't you ever dare run down the Irish or Ireland. If you don't like it here, then why did you come? Go home if you don't like us or our country.
This made me think. Would I emigrate to another country and start running down its people or the country? I think not.
As bad as Ireland is, and its people; I don't think immigrants should come here and run it down. The Irish run down their own people, and country enough as it is.
I for one am sick of people doing this. I have pride in my people and my country.
That is why I am not emigrating, I am living through the recession. Its hard enough to do that as it is, without listening to people running the country down.
After much thought, I thought the Irish man that put the immigrant down had a point. He stood up for what he believed in; Ireland and the Irish.
What do you think? Was he right or wrong to do that?

Everyone is entitled to voice an opinion immigrant or not. It might not be good manners but the man shouldn't have reacted in that way.

Bipolar Joe

Yeah, down with free speech!

magick

Complaining about the Country and its people?

Sounds like hes become more Irish than the Irish

Pottler

Where D'you read this O.P, in a Dick and Jane book? "He ran down the Irish". Did he. Really. Doubtful,,tbh.

Hate the phrase, but "thinly veiled - I'm a Taxi driver" thread. I employ a load of "foreidgners", and they all think they've died and gone to heaven here, never heard one of them run Ireland down, ever. Usually too busy running down the kips they came from.

risteard7

i agree op but the do gooders are going to shoot you down on this one

johnnycarrick

Pottler wrote: »

Where D'you read this O.P, in a Dick and Jane book? "He ran down the Irish". Did he. Really. Doubtful,,tbh.

Hate the phrase, but "thinly veiled - I'm a Taxi driver" thread.

I swear on my Mothers life (RIP) that I witnessed this conversation in my friends living room.
I am no racist if that's what you are implying by calling me a Taxi Driver.
That is why I did not state the nationality of the immigrant. It doesn't matter, the point is do you think its right for an immigrant to run down Ireland and the Irish?
I think its wrong to emigrate to a country and run down it, and its people. Its bad form.

duckysauce

depends was the immigrant getting the dole ?

Sam Kade

Bipolar Joe wrote: »

Yeah, down with free speech!

Is that the immigrants or the Irishman's free speech? It works both ways

johnnycarrick

duckysauce wrote: »

depends was the immigrant getting the dole ?

Both working men.

armchair fusilier

Turning a story about one immigrant into the "immigrants" that you put in your thread title is a bit of a leap op.

DrumSteve

Did he do this while eating a swan?

And I bet he wasnt a foreigner, he was probably from Leitrim.

Herb Powell

Is it just me, or do the people I see posting on here live in some sort of xenophobe's wet dream of a parallel universe? Because nothing I see posted here ever happens IRL, despite how widespread it's reported to be.

Pottler

johnnycarrick wrote: »

I swear on my Mothers life (RIP) that I witnessed this conversation in my friends living room.
I am no racist if that's what you are implying by calling me a Taxi Driver.
That is why I did not state the nationality of the immigrant. It doesn't matter, the point is do you think its right for an immigrant to run down Ireland and the Irish?
I think its wrong to emigrate to a country and run down it, and its people. Its bad form.

Will you ever go way and stop.

Chuck Stone

So one immigrant started running the country down.

Big deal.

When I saw the people being made Irish citizens on the tellybox a few weeks ago they all looked delighted with themselves.

Nodin

johnnycarrick wrote: »

Recently I witnessed an immigrant who had come to Ireland running down the country to an Irish man. The Irish man took so much, and held his tongue. But it went on, and on, and then the immigrant started to run down the Irish.
At this point the Irish man snapped, and said; how dare you come to my country and run down my people? Don't you ever dare run down the Irish or Ireland. If you don't like it here, then why did you come? Go home if you don't like us or our country.
This made me think. Would I emigrate to another country and start running down its people or the country? I think not.
As bad as Ireland is, and its people; I don't think immigrants should come here and run it down. The Irish run down their own people, and country enough as it is.
I for one am sick of people doing this. I have pride in my people and my country.
That is why I am not emigrating, I am living through the recession. Its hard enough to do that as it is, without listening to people running the country down.
After much thought, I thought the Irish man that put the immigrant down had a point. He stood up for what he believed in; Ireland and the Irish.
What do you think? Was he right or wrong to do that?

What did he say?

orestes

johnnycarrick wrote: »

Recently I witnessed an immigrant who had come to Ireland running down the country to an Irish man. The Irish man took so much, and held his tongue. But it went on, and on, and then the immigrant started to run down the Irish.
At this point the Irish man snapped, and said; how dare you come to my country and run down my people? Don't you ever dare run down the Irish or Ireland. If you don't like it here, then why did you come? Go home if you don't like us or our country.
This made me think. Would I emigrate to another country and start running down its people or the country? I think not.
As bad as Ireland is, and its people; I don't think immigrants should come here and run it down. The Irish run down their own people, and country enough as it is.
I for one am sick of people doing this. I have pride in my people and my country.
That is why I am not emigrating, I am living through the recession. Its hard enough to do that as it is, without listening to people running the country down.
After much thought, I thought the Irish man that put the immigrant down had a point. He stood up for what he believed in; Ireland and the Irish.
What do you think? Was he right or wrong to do that?

Ah c'mon, if you're gonna make shit up to get people riled up at least have some creativity!

Seriously, watch the news, everybody tuts about stuff like this but they have heard it all before, but when a woman throws a kitten in a wheelie bin or something then it's really pitchfork time. Think small, but something that people can relate to that really gets to them.

Try something about the neighbours leaving their rubbish in front of your kerb or something along those lines, everyday little things that make you want to stab someone in the face with a fork after a long day at the office.

2/10 for this effort, you can do better.

Airitech

In that situation if the Irish guy doesn't agree with the immigrant he should argue his own side, no point shouting go home at him.

If he does agree with the immigrant but doesn't like a non national expressing that view, well everyone is allowed their opinion, regardless of where they are from or how informed they are on the subject.

You might want to clarify do you mean all immigrants. Americans, English, French are all immigrants here as are the many professionals from India, Pakistan etc.

Or do you specifically mean people who have been granted refugee status here. If that's the case I can kind of see how someone would take the view that they shouldn't run down a country that has granted them asylum but they should still express grievances they have.

If you feel they are out of line call them out on it but anyone can do better than "go back where you came from". Challenge the points they make or just ignore them. No point making yourself look stupid with some ignorant comment.

downwithpeace

So many Irish b*tch and moan about this country now that it's probably seen as the norm, you want to fit in then complain.

johnnycarrick

DrumSteve wrote: »

Did he do this while eating a swan?

And I bet he wasnt a foreigner, he was probably from Leitrim.

I would prefer not to reveal the immigrants nationality as its irrelevant. (But he wasn't from the nation that eat swans).
The conversation took place in Dublin, and it was actually a Galway man that put the immigrant down. He took the fair criticism of Ireland, but when it came to criticising the Irish; that was too much for him to take.
I put it to the immigrant myself; I would not emigrate to your country then run it down or its people to you. I have respect. I might have my opinions on your country and your people, but I would keep them to myself.
He took on board what I said, and I never heard him run down Ireland or the Irish again.

Aliana

johnnycarrick wrote: »

He took on board what I said, and I never heard him run down Ireland or the Irish again.

Yet you still start a thread about it, hmmmm.

Pilotdude5

Lol I run the country down all the time to my friends! Patriotism in this country just means supporting the "boys in green" on various regulation pitches anyway.

Pottler

johnnycarrick wrote: »

I would prefer not to reveal the immigrants nationality as its irrelevant. (But he wasn't from the nation that eat swans).
The conversation took place in Dublin, and it was actually a Galway man that put the immigrant down. He took the fair criticism of Ireland, but when it came to criticising the Irish; that was too much for him to take.
I put it to the immigrant myself; I would not emigrate to your country then run it down or its people to you. I have respect. I might have my opinions on your country and your people, but I would keep them to myself.
He took on board what I said, and I never heard him run down Ireland or the Irish again.

Well done, your shamrock is in the post. Personally, I'd give a shyte, sure there's loads wrong here, and loads wrong there. You sound like a member of the Chieftans.

johnnycarrick

orestes wrote: »

Ah c'mon, if you're gonna make shit up to get people riled up at least have some creativity!

Seriously, watch the news, everybody tuts about stuff like this but they have heard it all before, but when a woman throws a kitten in a wheelie bin or something then it's really pitchfork time. Think small, but something that people can relate to that really gets to them.

Try something about the neighbours leaving their rubbish in front of your kerb or something along those lines, everyday little things that make you want to stab someone in the face with a fork after a long day at the office.

2/10 for this effort, you can do better.

True story. I swear on my Mother's life (RIP).
Isn't it funny how the truth is less believable than fiction sometimes?
For the record, I am no story teller. I just tell it how it is.

Fr D Maugire

johnnycarrick wrote: »

Recently I witnessed an immigrant who had come to Ireland running down the country to an Irish man. The Irish man took so much, and held his tongue. But it went on, and on, and then the immigrant started to run down the Irish.
At this point the Irish man snapped, and said; how dare you come to my country and run down my people? Don't you ever dare run down the Irish or Ireland. If you don't like it here, then why did you come? Go home if you don't like us or our country.
This made me think. Would I emigrate to another country and start running down its people or the country? I think not.
As bad as Ireland is, and its people; I don't think immigrants should come here and run it down. The Irish run down their own people, and country enough as it is.
I for one am sick of people doing this. I have pride in my people and my country.
That is why I am not emigrating, I am living through the recession. Its hard enough to do that as it is, without listening to people running the country down.
After much thought, I thought the Irish man that put the immigrant down had a point. He stood up for what he believed in; Ireland and the Irish.
What do you think? Was he right or wrong to do that?

Having met many other Irish people in various countries, they are just as bad at running down other countries and nationalities.

Wils110

I agree with the op....you don't go to Eddie rockets moan About the food then keep going back everyday if your not happy go somewhere else...

If Irish lads in Australia moaned to Australians about the Aussies and the country they be told to F:/€ off... Nothing wrong with having some pride

Bipolar Joe

Sam Kade wrote: »

Is that the immigrants or the Irishman's free speech? It works both ways

Fair point, I think? People can say what they want regardless of where they're from and where they currently are. Disagreements are also allowed. Just telling someone to shut up isn't much of a rebuttal, more a lack of one.

johnnycarrick

Fr D Maugire wrote: »

Having met many other Irish people in various countries, they are just as bad at running down other countries and nationalities.

Agreed, I have seen this myself sadly.
The Irish love to run down Ireland and the Irish when at home, and then whatever country or its people they are visiting. Its like a national pastime.
I actually think the Irish run down the Irish more than any immigrants, but I take exception to them doing it here. Sometimes you can have an opinion, but its best kept to yourself.
I can honestly say I have never visited a country and run down it, or its people.
I don't have a problem with immigrants coming to Ireland, they are welcome as far as I am concerned. I just have a problem listening to them running Ireland and the Irish down that's all.

duckysauce

johnnycarrick wrote: »

Both working men.

they can moan away so

Nodin

johnnycarrick wrote: »

I would prefer not to reveal the immigrants nationality as its irrelevant. (But he wasn't from the nation that eat swans).
The conversation took place in Dublin, and it was actually a Galway man that put the immigrant down. He took the fair criticism of Ireland, but when it came to criticising the Irish; that was too much for him to take.
I put it to the immigrant myself; I would not emigrate to your country then run it down or its people to you. I have respect. I might have my opinions on your country and your people, but I would keep them to myself.
He took on board what I said, and I never heard him run down Ireland or the Irish again.

....and again, what did he say?

Gyalist

I've always seen this "immigrants should integrate" lark as a trap. I refuse to integrate or assimilate.

johnnycarrick

Nodin wrote: »

....and again, what did he say?

Nothing. He just sat and listened. Then he turned over what I had said and I think it sank in.

Sam Kade

Bipolar Joe wrote: »

Fair point, I think? People can say what they want regardless of where they're from and where they currently are. Disagreements are also allowed. Just telling someone to shut up isn't much of a rebuttal, more a lack of one.

But he didn't tell him to shut up.

Nodin

johnnycarrick wrote: »

Nothing. He just sat and listened. Then he turned over what I had said and I think it sank in.

No, The "running down". What exactly did he say?

Airitech

Nodin wrote: »

No, The "running down". What exactly did he say?

McDonald's is better than Supermac's.

risteard7

Wils110 wrote: »

I agree with the op....you don't go to Eddie rockets moan About the food then keep going back everyday if your not happy go somewhere else...

If Irish lads in Australia moaned to Australians about the Aussies and the country they be told to F:/€ off... Nothing wrong with having some pride

no your not allowed have pride or question anything anymore. you just sit back and keep your mouth shut. at least england are starting to smartin up there immigration laws.

johnnycarrick

Gyalist wrote: »

I've always seen this "immigrants should integrate" lark as a trap. I refuse to integrate or assimilate.

I don't think immigrants should integrate either. That's what enriches a country; being mixed and multi-cultural.
Where you get a large population of any single ethnic group in a town or city it quickly becomes a ghetto. There has to be a balance between integration, and keeping your identity.
All I am saying is that you shouldn't emigrate, and then run down the country and its people. If you do, then you have to be prepared to take the consequences, and that might mean being told to go home to where you come from.
I think the Irish are one of the most tolerant of European countries when it comes to accepting immigrants. And most immigrants that have chosen to come here like it, and don't run down the country or its people. They have respect.
But there are some immigrants here that run down Ireland and the Irish, even though the life they have here is much better than the life they left behind.
If I didn't like it here myself I would emigrate. I wouldn't stay here and run teh country down. What does that achieve? It just upsets people. Maybe the truth hurts? But we don't need to hear it sometimes.

dotsman

Shams wrote: »

Complaining about the Country and its people?

Sounds like hes become more Irish than the Irish

Exactly. Sounds like the immigrant has been living here too long and is merely assimilating! In no time at all, he'll be swearing on the magical healing abilities of flat 7up, the amazingness of taytos and agreeing that puking on the streets at 4 o'clock in the morning is "having the craic".

OP - what's wrong with him pointing out and discussing the flaws in irish society? In many ways he is more qualified as he has the advantage of been an outsider looking in. Also, I've never met an irish person living abroad who hasn't something to complain/laugh about regarding their host country. Nowhere is perfect, regardless of where you are in the world, you should always be free to talk about the flaws in your society and trying to improve the situation. Just because you are not born somewhere does not mean you must just "put up and shut up".

Regards wanting him to go home just because he didn't tell you that Ireland is perfect and every Irish person is amazing...

johnnycarrick wrote: »

I am no racist...

...I agree - you are definitely not racist in anyway :rolleyes:

Pottler

johnnycarrick wrote: »

True story. I swear on my Mother's life (RIP).
Isn't it funny how the truth is less believable than fiction sometimes?
For the record, I am no story teller. I just tell it how it is.

You said it right there, tbf. Also, get a life, he said she said we said. who cares? What did he do, dint your Irish pride? The Wolfetones are crying out for you.

Zebra3

johnnycarrick wrote: »

I don't think immigrants should integrate either.

Of course they should.

Why should they remain aloof from society?

Nodin

johnnycarrick wrote: »

I don't think (..........)it sometimes.

Recently I witnessed an immigrant who had come to Ireland running down the country to an Irish man. The Irish man took so much, and held his tongue. But it went on, and on, and then the immigrant started to run down the Irish.

What exactly did the immigrant say to "run down the Irish".

johnnycarrick

Nodin wrote: »

No, The "running down". What exactly did he say?

I am not going to repeat what he said. Suffice it to say that it was offensive enough to make a man snap.
In fairness, what he said about Ireland was nothing more than the Irish have said.
However running down Irish people was one step too far. Maybe he was right about the Irish, and the truth hurts; but he should have had respect and kept his opinions to himself.
When you emigrate to another country, you have to remember you are a guest of that country, and respect their culture, religion, politics, social views etc. You may not agree with them, but you have to know when to keep that to yourself.
By and large immigrants are welcomed to Ireland by the Irish, but that is because they have respect and don't run down Ireland and the Irish.
What upsets me is that someone would come here and feel they can do that.

wolfpawnat

I know one immigrant that is like this, but that said I know more than a few immigrants in general, as many people do these days. I think a moan is fine, I think even stating that other countries may have better goods and services is fine, because it is personal opinion and well we are all entitled to one, but this person does nothing but belittle Ireland and the Irish, and I do find myself wondering "If we and our country are that bad, then why are you still here, there are 194 other recognised states on this planet, why are you here if we are so bad?" But as I said this is ONE person I have experience with and as a result of her horrible litany of comments, I no longer interact with her. Every other immigrant I have spoken to may make a comment or two about one or two topics, but also compliments other things we have because well, that's normal of everyone.

Pottler

Nodin wrote: »

What exactly did the immigrant say to "run down the Irish".

He probably said some Irish people didn't like immigrants. which then got used against him in a court of "if I say the word 'Irish' enough, everyone will start sweating and moshing and loving me"

Zebra3

johnnycarrick wrote: »

What upsets me is that someone would come here and feel they can do that.

So you're against free speech then? :rolleyes:

Gyalist

risteard7 wrote: »

no your not allowed have pride or question anything anymore. you just sit back and keep your mouth shut. at least england are starting to smartin up there immigration laws.

I must have missed the memo where the UK forbade immigrants from saying anything derogatory about the country. I'm sure you can enlighten me.

johnnycarrick wrote: »

I don't think immigrants should integrate either. That's what enriches a country; being mixed and multi-cultural.
Where you get a large population of any single ethnic group in a town or city it quickly becomes a ghetto. There has to be a balance between integration, and keeping your identity.
All I am saying is that you shouldn't emigrate, and then run down the country and its people. If you do, then you have to be prepared to take the consequences, and that might mean being told to go home to where you come from.
I think the Irish are one of the most tolerant of European countries when it comes to accepting immigrants. And most immigrants that have chosen to come here like it, and don't run down the country or its people. They have respect.
But there are some immigrants here that run down Ireland and the Irish, even though the life they have here is much better than the life they left behind.
If I didn't like it here myself I would emigrate. I wouldn't stay here and run teh country down. What does that achieve? It just upsets people. Maybe the truth hurts? But we don't need to hear it sometimes.

I think we have completely different interpretations of what integrating means.

Anyway, one man's "running down" is another man's constructive criticism.

Annasopra

johnnycarrick wrote: »

He took on board what I said, and I never heard him run down Ireland or the Irish again.

I thought this thread was about immigrants who run the country down ALL THE TIME? Or did you make a mistake on the thread title? Should it have been "A story about this one immigrant who gave out about Ireland once"?

orestes

johnnycarrick wrote: »

I am not going to repeat what he said. Suffice it to say that it was offensive enough to make a man snap.

Oh best not repeat it here old chap, you run the risk of making the ladyfolk swoon! Jolly good show for putting that heathen straight, Johnny Foreigner must learn his place what what?

*puffs on pipe*

Nodin

johnnycarrick wrote: »

I am not going to repeat what he said. Suffice it to say that it was offensive enough to make a man snap.
In fairness, what he said about Ireland was nothing more than the Irish have said.
However running down Irish people was one step too far. Maybe he was right about the Irish, and the truth hurts; but he should have had respect and kept his opinions to himself.
When you emigrate to another country, you have to remember you are a guest of that country, and respect their culture, religion, politics, social views etc. You may not agree with them, but you have to know when to keep that to yourself.
By and large immigrants are welcomed to Ireland by the Irish, but that is because they have respect and don't run down Ireland and the Irish.
What upsets me is that someone would come here and feel they can do that.

Ye want to know what I think?

johnnycarrick

Zebra3 wrote: »

Of course they should.

Why should they remain aloof from society?

Integration doesn't work.
Multiculturalism works to a degree when there is a common language or religion that ethnic groups can share.
Take France for example, Arabic Muslims are not integrating with the French.
The problem is cultural. The French do not overtly express religious beliefs, they keep them private and reserved. However the Arabic people that come to France are trying to impose their overt Muslim faith on the French.
This clash of culture is causing friction between the French and Arab immigrants.
They are just too different culturally to integrate, it can never work.
Its no different to the cultural apartheid that exists in the North between the Orange Order and Republicans. They will never be able to integrate with each others cultures.
Palestinians and Jews in Israel is yet another example, and it goes on and on, the world over.
Immigrants just need to respect the people of the country they are in, and likewise the people need to be tolerant of the immigrants beliefs.