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Aircoach Dublin-Cork express

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    #662
    Vahevala
    Registered Users Posts: 1,681 ✭✭✭Vahevala


    33014 wrote: »
    Cork to Dublin airport service is not very good. Grumpy driver. Very old and dirty bus. Noisy and the seats are tighter than Ryanair's. I am not going to use aircoach again, there are better alternatives.

    Whenever I have travelled on this route, the coaches seemed quite new and pretty spacious for legroom. Also when I see the coaches around town, they all look in good shape!

    Out of interest, what better alternatives are there?


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    #663
    KCAccidental
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,492 ✭✭✭KCAccidental


    33014 wrote: »
    Cork to Dublin airport service is not very good. Grumpy driver. Very old and dirty bus. Noisy and the seats are tighter than Ryanair's. I am not going to use aircoach again, there are better alternatives.

    like?


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    #664
    Hogzy
    Registered Users Posts: 7,544 ✭✭✭Hogzy


    KCAccidental wrote: »
    like?

    goBus


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    #665
    KCAccidental
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,492 ✭✭✭KCAccidental


    Hogzy wrote: »
    goBus

    he said "a better alternative"


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    #666
    Hogzy
    Registered Users Posts: 7,544 ✭✭✭Hogzy


    KCAccidental wrote: »
    he said "a better alternative"

    Oh right. Well, whatever you think buddy.


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    #667
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,569 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Hogzy wrote: »
    Oh right. Well, whatever you think buddy.

    Given that this was his first post and he hasn't returned, I'm pretty certain that he was spamming for GoBus (the only alternative from the airport), which is completely against the rules of boards. Pretty sad really and desperate whichever company he was from.

    I've used both GoBE and Aircoach to Cork and they both have their pros and cons.

    However this posters accusations that Aircoach coach were old, dirty and lacked legroom and that the drivers were grumpy is an outrageous and frankly totally unbelievable accusation.

    Aircoach use a variety of coaches but non older then 2006 on the Cork route, which while not brand new, is far from old and pretty standard for the coach industry. I've never once been on a dirty Aircoach coach, they are always very clean and well maintained. They also are very comfortable and their 2009 Jockheeres, which make up half their fleet, have more legroom then any coach, train or plane I've ever used!!

    Also I've never meet a grumpy Aircoach driver, in my experience they have always been very helpful and nice (and the same for GoBE drivers in fairness).

    As for who has the better service from Dublin Airport, Aircoach or GoBE, well on balance Aircoach do IMO for the following reasons:

    - Cheaper, Aircoach is €25 return versus GoBE €27 return
    - Aircoach service is hourly, versus GoBE being every two hours
    - Aircoach pick up and drop off right outside the door of departures and arrivals at Dublin Airport, versus further away in the coach park for GoBE


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    #668
    dfx-
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,665 Mod ✭✭✭✭dfx-


    For wish of a non-toilet bus.

    9am non-stop service to Cork this morning, a Caetano, C48. Rattling loose overhead trim for the whole journey and uncomfortable with a strong scent of air freshener from the toilet.

    5pm service from Cork, a Jonckheere, 20667. Top notch travel. I'd rather a stop with this coach than non-stop on the morning journey.

    More Joncks, less Caetanos please.


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    #669
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,569 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Yes, the Caetanos aren't great, the Joncks are.

    Pity they don't retrofit toilets into the Joncks. Or buy more Setra S416GT-HD's which they currently have one of and which is a fantastic coach, pretty much a modern Jonck with toilet.


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    #670
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,593 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    That Setra 416GT-HD has gone back now, since it was only on short term evaluation. I'd say you won't see any more new vehicles until the lease is up on some of the current ones. Not sure when that is.

    Tip with the Caetanos are to get in the first few rows, they have much better legroom there. Unfortunately they do suffer from the rattling on the luggage racks above the ceilings, although this is a design flaw rather than bad maintenance since I've seen six month old 2012 models in the UK with the very same problem. As for the comments on the toilet, this is the problem with toilets on coaches!


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    #671
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,581 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    To be fair - better to smell of air freshener than something else!


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    #672
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,569 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    devnull wrote: »
    That Setra 416GT-HD has gone back now

    Has it?

    I know that the 2012 Caetano had been returned, but I thought the 2012 Setra was still around and would likely remain so as it got branding specific for the Cork route.

    Pity if it is gone.
    devnull wrote: »
    I'd say you won't see any more new vehicles until the lease is up on some of the current ones. Not sure when that is.

    I assume it mustn't be long left on the 2004 Setra and Scanias. I assumed this is why they got the 2012 Setra 416GT-HD, to evaluate a possible fleet replacement.

    Specially as Setras are rumoured to be selling off coaches cheap as they are pulling out of the RHD market next year.
    devnull wrote: »
    As for the comments on the toilet, this is the problem with toilets on coaches!

    I disagree, I think it is a problem specific to either the Levante/Caetano or with floor level toilets. I've certainly never experienced this issue on the GoBus Volvos to Cork and Galway or the Citylink Van Hools all of which have sunken toilets.


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    #673
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,593 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    bk wrote: »
    Has it? I know that the 2012 Caetano had been returned, but I thought the 2012 Setra was still around and would likely remain so as it got branding specific for the Cork route. Pity if it is gone.

    Everything was easy peel stickers on the coach, rather than painted or printed on the side of it, since it was only on short term evaluation. This is why they did not livery the side of it and just stuck a sticker with the legal address on it.
    I assume it mustn't be long left on the 2004 Setra and Scanias. I assumed this is why they got the 2012 Setra 416GT-HD, to evaluate a possible fleet replacement.

    All the three 2004 Scania's, The 2005 Setra 315 and the four 2006 Levante's are owned FirstGroup assets which they are not leasing. When they started the Dublin to Cork Express route they needed to expand the fleet to be able to run the timetable. The company at that time had just published figures saying they'd made a loss of over 500,000 euro. Leasing extra vehicles was not an option as it would just add extra liabilities to the bottom line. So they sent in six coaches from First in the UK to expand their fleet, since that would cost them nothing.

    If they replace the owned coaches with leased new coaches straight away you are vastly increasing the liabilities that the service would need to cover and any financially savvy business advisor would tell you that it is a risk, especially when the company is going through a tough time. You'd have to recoup the revenue somehow, which would be by rising prices, which would in this case be playing into the competitions hand. Of course if Aircoach was still largely profitable they'd be investing no matter what, but that is a big risk to take and really they are doing well on the Cork route so I'd be doubtful that they could generate enough extra custom with new coaches to cover a few 100k a year in leasing charges.

    That I believe is part of the reason they ended the Ballinteer route, since the PB's lease was up. Perhaps the Ballinteer route was not getting enough revenue at the end of last year to cover the cost of the Scania PB. With the Scania PB lease up around that time, if the Ballinteer route was bringing in less money than the Scania PB was costing them in lease costs, it was sensible to return it and cancel the service since it would reduce their costs by a greater amount than it decreases their revenue = net gain.

    Now is not the time to be taking too many risks, if you look at the accounts of any transport company up and down the country, 90% of them are loss making with the rest making small profits or barely breaking even. Just getting through the next few years is the main objective for most companies, without taking any expensive risks that may heavily punish them later. Fleet investment will still occur at most operators, just in a more considered and conservative timeframe.

    Note that GoBus, Citylink and Dublin Coach are all leasing the vast majority of their fleets, and whilst some of them have got new vehicles in the last couple of years, all of them have been replacements for leases that have came up, I would expect the same to happen with Aircoach. The parent group has donated six coaches in the last six months at no cost to Aircoach and whilst they may not be the best, leasing six new coaches would have really put Aircoach in a even more difficult position trading wise.


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    #674
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,569 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    devnull, I agree with most of what you say, however there is one opposing argument that you didn't mention.

    New coaches are far more fuel efficient and that is a very important factor when you are running the coach up and down the country all day long. Also newer coaches require less maintenance.

    Think of this as the Ryanair model, who have the youngest fleet in Europe due to lower fuel and maintenance costs. Megabus also do something similar in the UK.

    CityLink has gotten an entire new fleet of 2012/2013 Van Hools for the Galway route for exactly this reason, they are far more fuel efficient.

    GoBus seem to have done the same to Galway with 2011/2012 Volvos.

    Along with Dublin Coach, everyone but Aircoach now have very modern fleets, with heavy investments in 2012.

    Again I'm not disagreeing with you, Aircoach have proven to be very clever operators, quickly building up these new routes, while very successfully competing with GoBE it seems, I certainly don't underestimate them.

    I just think there maybe a tipping where it costs less to buy/lease new coaches then to operate older less fuel efficient coaches. I assume Aircoach will eventually buy new coaches in the next year or two with a specific focus on models more suited to intercity travel.


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    #675
    Koops80
    Registered Users Posts: 49 ✭Koops80


    bk wrote: »
    CityLink has gotten an entire new fleet of 2012/2013 Van Hools for the Galway route for exactly this reason, they are far more fuel efficient.
    .

    Thats not true.

    Callaghan coaches is in charge of all the coaches on citylinks route, he hires some coaches in from other coach operators hence strange regs like DL. Citylink couldn't give a dam about how fuel efficient one of their coaches are....


    There is flip all difference fuel usage wise between a 2012 coach and a 2008 coach.


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    #676
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,593 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    bk wrote: »
    New coaches are far more fuel efficient and that is a very important factor when you are running the coach up and down the country all day long. Also newer coaches require less maintenance.

    They are more fuel efficient yes and require far less maintenance, but the extra cost of leasing a coach is going to be far more than the saving from fuel and maintenance. This will result in prices needing to be increased to cover the costs of such things. The overwhelming majority of the Aircoach fleet is of high quality vehicles that unlike cheaper models, does not require a lot of the time off the road.
    Think of this as the Ryanair model, who have the youngest fleet in Europe due to lower fuel and maintenance costs. Megabus also do something similar in the UK.

    Huge difference. Both those businesses are making large profits and the very nature of the Aircoach business means that the recession has effected them more than many other transport business.
    CityLink has gotten an entire new fleet of 2012/2013 Van Hools

    Considering Citylink don't own or lease any coaches these days then I can't agree with that. They have no coaches anymore since the whole brand is now nothing more than a franchise in Ireland. The new coaches you will find were acquired because the previous vehicles leases ran out. Also unlike the last vehicles, those Vanhools are not leased to Citylink, they are leased to the contractor. Citylink have very little in the way of assets these days. The risk is transferred to the contractor.
    GoBus seem to have done the same to Galway with 2011/2012 Volvos. Along with Dublin Coach, everyone but Aircoach now have very modern fleets, with heavy investments in 2012.

    Gobus for the Galway route have a number of coaches on lease for a few years at a time. They keep them for four years and then they replace them every 3-4 years with newer coaches when the term is up. For example last year the 2012 GoBus Vehicles replaced the 2008 and early 2009 ones who had their lease up for renewal. Such lease terms for the oldest vehicles was more than likely signed after the economic boom.

    By the way on the subject of GoBE, they don't have any coaches for that. Again this is run by a contractor, Bernard Kavanagh, who leases the vast majority of his fleet. GoBE have two coaches in livery and the rest of them are random coaches from whatever is spare at the time at Bernard Kavanagh so ANYTHING can turn up at all.

    As for Dublin Coach, well similar story here. Full fleet is leased. Their new 2012 coaches were procured in 2011 to replace vehicles from 2005 which had come to the end of the lease. It was deemed too prohibitive to procure new coaches before this as it would have a negative impact on the bottom line, exactly the same situation Aircoach find themselves in now.
    I assume Aircoach will eventually buy new coaches in the next year or two with a specific focus on models more suited to intercity travel.

    You need to stop mentioning the buy word since it's simply not going to happen. It's a one way ticket to going out of business very quickly and financial suicide for any private operator to buy any vehicle upfront at the moment. Leasing is the only way to go and pretty much every private in Ireland is leasing.


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    #677
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,569 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Koops80 wrote: »
    Thats not true.

    Callaghan coaches is in charge of all the coaches on citylinks route, he hires some coaches in from other coach operators hence strange regs like DL. Citylink couldn't give a dam about how fuel efficient one of their coaches are....


    There is flip all difference fuel usage wise between a 2012 coach and a 2008 coach.

    Yes the coaches are operated by Callaghan, not CityLink, however Callaghan has bought in a large number of new Van Hool coaches as they are significantly more fuel efficient then the old coaches they were operating. This has been widely reported over on another forum.

    Why else would they have gotten rid of the otherwise perfectly fine 2008 coaches and replace them with 2012 models?


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    #678
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,593 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    bk wrote: »
    Yes the coaches are operated by Callaghan, not CityLink, however Callaghan has bought in a large number of new Van Hool coaches as they are significantly more fuel efficient then the old coaches they were operating. This has been widely reported over on another forum.

    Why else would they have gotten rid of the otherwise perfectly fine 2008 coaches and replace them with 2012 models?

    They were brought in since the previous coaches that dated from 2006-2008 had their leases up for renewal. So it was decided that with the leases up they may as well get the better performance out of the newer vehicles since it was not that much more to lease them per year.

    That is hugely different to the Aircoach situation that I've mentioned several times where the leases still have years to run, when they run out then Aircoach will do the same. If you replace a vehicle before it's lease is up it becomes an extra cost which has to be covered somewhere. It's a fixed cost that is there no matter what whether you are using it or not.


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    #679
    Koops80
    Registered Users Posts: 49 ✭Koops80


    bk wrote: »
    Yes the coaches are operated by Callaghan, not CityLink, however Callaghan has bought in a large number of new Van Hool coaches as they are significantly more fuel efficient then the old coaches they were operating. This has been widely reported over on another forum.

    Why else would they have gotten rid of the otherwise perfectly fine 2008 coaches and replace them with 2012 models?

    Callaghan did not get rid of his 2008 coaches, his 2008/2009 volvos are still operating away in citylink colours every day of the week. Callaghan does not own the van hools they are contracted in from coach operator.

    Stop presenting the contents of your posts as facts when in reality they are only rumors which you read on another forum


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    #680
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,569 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    devnull wrote: »
    That is hugely different to the Aircoach situation that I've mentioned several times where the leases still have years to run, when they run out then Aircoach will do the same. If you replace a vehicle before it's lease is up it becomes an extra cost which has to be covered somewhere.

    But how do you know that Aircoach have years more to run on their leases?

    From what you have said yourself, everyone else seems to have 4 year leases.

    At least half of Aircoach fleet is from 2004, 9 years old. So I would expect the lease on these at least is up soon? Maybe next year?

    They have 3 x 04 Scanias and 17 x 04 Setras.

    I really don't see these 20 Scanias and Setras going for more then 12 years with Aircoach, do you?

    So I expect they will eventually replace the 2004 coaches with new toilet equipped models that they would then use on the Cork and Belfast routes. 20 coaches would be more then enough to cover these two routes with coaches to spare. Then you transfer the 2008/9 Joncks to the airport runs.

    I'm not saying it will happen tomorrow, clearly the pressure is off on the Cork route now that GoBE have stumbled. But I assume it will happen in the next year or two.


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    #681
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,569 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Koops80 of course we are only speculating, no one can possibly know the inner working of all of these companies.

    However if you are affiliated with one of them, then I recommend you take a look at the conflicts of interest thread:
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=126578


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    #682
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,593 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    bk wrote: »
    But how do you know that Aircoach have years more to run on their leases?

    From what you have said yourself, everyone else seems to have 4 year leases.

    Most of the leases signed after the economic downturn started have been around 4-5 years with a few exceptions. The ones signed in 2004 and 2005 would have been much longer deals as was the normal then where we were in more prosperous times and long term leases were deemed as less of a risk. The Aircoach Jonck's were signed just before the economic downturn started as they took longer to build than average coaches since they were highly customised.
    At least half of Aircoach fleet is from 2004
    Nope, it's quite a bit less than that.
    19x 2004 Setra 415HD (Leased)
    3x 2004 Scania Century (owned)
    1x 2005 Setra 315GT-HD (owned)
    4x 2006 Caetano Levante (owned)
    2x 2006 Plaxton Panther (presumed owned)
    21x 2008/9 Jonckheere SHV (leased)
    I really don't see these 20 Scanias and Setras going for more then 12 years with Aircoach, do you?
    I'd say the Setra's will be gone by the end of the 2014. The Scania's it remains to be seen as they are owned they are not costing anything on a yearly basis to keep but I'd be surprised if they see 2016.
    So I expect they will eventually replace the 2004 coaches with new toilet equipped models that they would then use on the Cork and Belfast routes

    Anything that is coming in in the near future I would suspect would either be a demonstrator, a transfer from the UK (if current ownership stays the same) or a replacement for leases which are up.
    I'm not saying it will happen tomorrow, clearly the pressure is off on the Cork route now that GoBE have stumbled. But I assume it will happen in the next year or two.

    Believe me, the Cork route is the least they are worried with at the moment. The other routes are the ones which are the problems.


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    #683
    currins_02
    Registered Users Posts: 133 ✭✭currins_02


    Great discussion lads. A few points I'd like to add.

    Firstly, certainly the preference with larger operators at present is to lease but smaller operators prefer still to buy, although the once universal 5 year finance term is now normally being extended to 7 years due to the tightening up of availability of finance. Many accountants are advising smaller operators to opt for some form of purchase as it is on balance sheet rather than the off sheet option of leasing. There are pro's and con's both ways.

    Secondly, Callaghan's Coaches do not operate the Citylink contract, Callinan's Coaches do.

    Callinan's new fleet of VanHools (10-12 TX16 Alicrons and 2 TDX21 Altano - some delivered 2012 and balance 2013) are sourced via the local VanHool dealer Dermot Cronin Motors of Cork but leased with leasing arrangement being supplied via the UK VanHool Integral agent Arriva. For many years Cronin's have used Arriva as an intermediary when a customer requires a leased vehicle. Hence why Arriva had one of the Altano's at the UK show and it was then exhibited 2 weeks later by Cronin's in Dublin (but with Arriva's leasing man on the stand all weekend). This is all fact and has been widely published in trade press such as Bus & Coach Buyer and RouteOne.

    The widely beleived rumour is that the small number of sub let (or sub leased whatever the word would be) vehicles with Callinan's (2010 VanHool from Mangan, VanHool's from Kearney's etc) were due to a lack of available leasing or finance in 2012. The 2008 DL Jonckheere is Callinan's although original Mangan's and with Collins in between.


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    #684
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,308 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    bk wrote: »
    However if you are affiliated with one of them, then I recommend you take a look at the conflicts of interest thread:
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=126578
    I'd be grateful if you could leave moderating to the moderators.

    Moderator


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    #685
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,569 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Yes, apologies Victor.

    Yes this is a very interesting conversation. Thanks for the clarification currins_02, very interesting.

    Devnull, so 19 Setras will likely fall out of lease in the next year or two.

    So do you think they might just close routes when these coaches leave?

    Or will they lease new coaches to replace them?

    If they do lease new coaches, then it makes sense to lease one's with toilets, etc. and use them on the Cork and Belfast routes. 19 would be more then enough to cover those routes. The remaining Joncks and other coaches could then cover the Airport routes, which in themselves would be a nice upgrade for those routes. The Joncks are a superb coach and their lack of toilet doesn't matter on a shorter route like this.

    The Cork route might be one of the better performing one, but making it even more attractive will attract even more customers. Plus a toilet on the coaches to Belfast would give them an additional edge over Bus Eireann.

    I'm not sure what they can do about the Airport routes, either close them or wait out the recession. The coaches used on these routes won't make much of a difference. Unless they looked to switch to Midi Coaches in order to reduce fuel costs.


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    #686
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    One of the big improvements in this forum in the past year has been a lot of participation from Bus/Coach 'practitioners' ( SB now GLARES at BK for an instant) talking about their business generally (and without dissing whoever 'the competition' may be bar the occasional low post count muppet) . Long may it continue to my mind.

    A high frequency and modern express bus network is an essential part of the national transport mix now we have Motorways, such a service was long confined to the Galway - Dublin route (even pre motorway) .

    I'm glad that such services have now become the norm between major cities and I feel the time is near when major express bus interchanges ( sort of Motorway service stations where buses fly in and out) will have to be built to allow interchanges between services.

    It would not be fanciful, to my mind, were a group of Bus Operators to tender for the construction and operation of a Motorway Service area where this could be progressed. Somewhere around Naas or Kilcock would be a good place to think of starting. The network nowadays is largely radial from Dublin ( excepting Citylink from Galway-Cork and Feda north of Galway who is not quite express....yet.)

    Westtip ( mainly in the Roads forum in Infrastructure) has serially kicked out the idea of an Express bus interchange located near the planned Rathmorrissey junction where the M18 / M6 are to join. I think the Express bus market is sufficiently mature for a discussion on this and related matters to get going nationally.

    Sure I might even start a thread on it if Victor doesn't quiver at the thought, I promise to keep it out of the WRC thread anyway. :)


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    #687
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,569 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    One of the big improvements in this forum in the past year has been a lot of participation from Bus/Coach 'practitioners' ( SB now GLARES at BK for an instant) talking about their business generally (and without dissing whoever 'the competition' may be bar the occasional low post count muppet) . Long may it continue to my mind.

    I couldn't agree more, it is great to see so many well informed people here. Welcome all :)

    Sorry if I was a bit grumpy earlier!!
    A high frequency and modern express bus network is an essential part of the national transport mix now we have Motorways, such a service was long confined to the Galway - Dublin route (even pre motorway) .

    I'm glad that such services have now become the norm between major cities and I feel the time is near when major express bus interchanges ( sort of Motorway service stations where buses fly in and out) will have to be built to allow interchanges between services.

    +100 The last year has been a fantastic year for the Irish commuter. I have to give kudos too to the NTA for allowing this to finally happen.


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    #688
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,593 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Devnull, so 19 Setras will likely fall out of lease in the next year or two. So do you think they might just close routes when these coaches leave? Or will they lease new coaches to replace them?

    I would say that would be highly dependent on company finances, how each route is performing and if it is cost effective to keep them and in addition how much they would need to pay for the lease of newer vehicles. They may opt for a cheaper less premium brand than Setra which would save them money for example, as Setra are perhaps the most luxury brand out there with Vanhool and Neoplan not far behind, so they may be able to reduce their per vehicle leasing costs with a good quality but cheaper vehicle with still a comfortable interior.
    If they do lease new coaches, then it makes sense to lease one's with toilets, etc. and use them on the Cork and Belfast routes. 19 would be more then enough to cover those routes.

    Take into account however that the Dalkey route cannot operate with tri-axles due to some of the roads around the terminus of the route which would make it very hard for a tri-axle route to cope so you'll never see the Jonckheere's on there. Now it operates with the 2004 Scanias and the 2004 Setras.
    The remaining Joncks and other coaches could then cover the Airport routes, which in themselves would be a nice upgrade for those routes. The Joncks are a superb coach and their lack of toilet doesn't matter on a shorter route like this.

    Greystones is already operating with Joncks only. The Ballsbridge/Leopardstown routes are mostly Setra with a few Joncks with the Belfast route totally Setra. There is little to no difference between the Setra and the Joncks apart from the later being newer, but the former does have tables so I wouldn't consider it a nice upgrade, since there is little difference.
    The Cork route might be one of the better performing one, but making it even more attractive will attract even more customers. Plus a toilet on the coaches to Belfast would give them an additional edge over Bus Eireann.

    Now is not the time to be taking business risks when companies are loss making. If the service is making a decent profit then it's best to try and not take too many risks with the formula and instead focus on the loss making routes. Any additional daily leasing costs has to be covered by increased revenue relatively quickly else it eats up cash. They may attract additional revenue if they lease new coaches tomorrow, but it's doubtful it will be enough to cover the cost of an extra vehicle being leased on top of the original vehicle which then turns a well performing route into one which is barely doing better than break even.
    I'm not sure what they can do about the Airport routes, either close them or wait out the recession. The coaches used on these routes won't make much of a difference. Unless they looked to switch to Midi Coaches in order to reduce fuel costs.

    If you lease midi coaches you box yourself in when you sign a 5 year lease, the economy picks up, they're then too small for purpose but you end up paying for a coach for years which is no use to the business. Again you are bleeding money. Also Mini coaches tend not to be so durable as their larger counterparts.
    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    One of the big improvements in this forum in the past year has been a lot of participation from Bus/Coach 'practitioners' ( SB now GLARES at BK for an instant) talking about their business generally (and without dissing whoever 'the competition' may be bar the occasional low post count muppet) . Long may it continue to my mind.

    It's good that we can have a proper discussion bout it on here but it does annoy me when you get the shills and fake posters but least they are pretty few and far between. Personally I just say it as I see it, I have no involvement in the industry myself but know a few people in companies in and outside Ireland and take a little bit of an interest as you can guess!


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    #689
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,569 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    devnull wrote: »
    Now is not the time to be taking business risks when companies are loss making. If the service is making a decent profit then it's best to try and not take too many risks with the formula and instead focus on the loss making routes. Any additional daily leasing costs has to be covered by increased revenue relatively quickly else it eats up cash. They may attract additional revenue if they lease new coaches tomorrow, but it's doubtful it will be enough to cover the cost of an extra vehicle being leased on top of the original vehicle which then turns a well performing route into one which is barely doing better than break even.

    Again, I'm not suggesting that these lease new coaches on top of the existing coaches that they lease. Rather that when the lease for the 2004 Setras run out, it may well make sense to lease newer coaches to replace these Setras and shuffle the rest of the fleet around.

    When the lease on the 19 2004 Setras runs out, I see them having three options:

    1) Get rid of the 19 2004 Setra coaches, not replace them and thus close some routes.

    2) Continue to lease the 2004 Setras and use them.

    3) Replace the 19 2004 Setras with a lease for a newer coach. I assume with toilets onboard and speced for intercity travel. Use them on the Cork and Belfast routes and use the existing Joncks, Scanais, etc. on the Dublin Airport routes.

    The advantage of option 2, is that I assume leasing an older coach is cheaper then leasing newer coaches?

    The advantage of option 3 over option 2 is that newer coaches would be more reliable, cheaper to maintain and use less fuel, very important on heavily used intercity routes. These savings may or may not save you more money then continuing to lease the older Setras.

    I don't know really, but I'm guessing option 3 saves you more money, otherwise why didn't CityLink and GoBus continue to lease their older coaches, instead opting to lease brand new coaches?

    Of course option 3 also has the benefit of potentially attracting more customers with shiny, well equipped new coaches.

    As you say, if they lease newer coaches, they might opt for a cheaper brand then Setra, which might make option 3 even more attractive.


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    #690
    patrickbrophy18
    Registered Users Posts: 1,303 ✭✭✭patrickbrophy18


    bk wrote: »
    I know that the 2012 Caetano had been returned

    If this is the white one you're referring to, no wonder I haven't seen it in my neck of the woods (Dalkey) for a while. It's a petty as it was a smart addition to the fleet.


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    #691
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    There was 5 passengers on the 8.30pm gobe service tonight. Quite low numbers for a friday night.


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