Garda shot dead during robbery at Louth Credit Union(Mod warning, 1st post.)

mike65 · 01-02-2013 11:49AM

The security correspondent of a national newspaper, talking on Pat Kennys radio programme. Forget which journalist/paper.

jmayo · 01-02-2013 12:06PM

Bambi wrote: »

Ah the good old days, generations of kids from certain areas who grew up hating coppers didn't exactly help the current situation did it?

Yes but at least they might have feared them and feared a justice system which could have stretched their necks if they had murdered one of them.

The current situation is down to fact that nobody fears reprecussions because there are shag all reprecussions.

A fine Garda, Robert McCallion, was killed by a piece of garbage from Donegal who drove with intent at the Gardaí.
What did he get ?
7 years with one year suspended and all his multiple sentences to run concurrent.
The killer of Garda Gary McLoughlin, also in Donegal, got 8 years with final year suspended for ramming the patrol car.
And he ended up escaping from the open prison Loughan House.
WTF was a killer like him doing in an open prison ?

What do these cases tell the Gardaí ?
Go out and risk your life to try protect us and our property and we will reward your killers with soft prison time ?

Stheno wrote: »

No, not if they have served their sentences. What do you suggest we do, lock up every career criminal for life?

I worked with someone who spent many years in prison for a serious bombing offence. They came out, and have since been a productive, working, tax paying member of society.

Far too often on here, we see the American system of incarceration for three strikes etc/youngsters tried as adults being villified.

People deserve a chance.

The victims deserve something too you know.
BTW most of these do not even serve their real sentences, however paltry they are in the first place, because they get remission and time off for good behaviour before they even start.

mark renton wrote: »

Actually your post raises many more questions - given the part of the country we are talking about surely extra caution would be taken approaching such a car?Anyways my curiosity was in regards to maybe it wasnt an ambush, maybe he surprised them.

You will have to forgive me here if it appears I am applying blame - I do believe this is still a discussion forum.

You are sh** stirring and actually it appears trying to allocate blame to someone who can't defend themselves.

John Mongo wrote: »

It's Galway, not downtown Baghdad. I suppose they probably should've had a GPMG with them, just to insure they had the ability to lay down a heavier volume of fire than any potential enemy.

Why was his partner still in the car? - Quite frankly because chances are upon seeing an empty car, the decision was made to go have a look and see what the craic with it was. The last thing going through your head, in Ireland, even on an escort, would be "I'm going to get ambushed here". Things haven't gotten so bad that you have to treat every empty car like it's a bloody VBIED. As has been pointed out, Garda come across suspicious looking cars everyday.

No need to be concerned when one Garda covers another - That's deadly... So who covers the cash, as part of a two man escort?

He didn't have his weapon out and didn't get a shot off - As has already been said, nobody is gonna treat every single empty car like they're gonna get ambushed, even on an escort. The reason he didn't get a shot off is because he was ambushed, simple as. The initiative was with the scum as they hid and they used it.

Det Garda Donohoe was not poorly trained. You do not become trusted with firearms in a primarily unarmed force, by being poorly trained. To imply anything of the sort, or that Det Garda Donohoe's death was somehow his own fault, as a result of bad drills, is just plain wrong.

From what I have heard through some connected people, blame cannot in any way be leveled at the Gardaí for the atrocious crime and that they were given no warning.

However I do think Garda training is not good enough in lots of areas just like I think the equipment they are given is substandard in this day and age.
Listening to Joe Duffy yesterday (sorry was in the car at the time) they had a US policeman on, who was actually able through computer in his car to pick up RTE Radio on the web.
(not sure he should have been doing that

)

Disregarding the firepower (side arms, tasors, shotgun and fully auto M16), the specially designed police cruisers have online access facilitates to run on the spot checks and some even have number plate recognition technology.

Meanwhile back here the Gardaí have good old Ford Fiestas, Mondeos, Avensis, etc.

Death and Taxes · 01-02-2013 12:10PM

jmayo wrote: »

Yes but at least they might have feared them and feared a justice system which could have stretched their necks if they had murdered one of them.

The current situation is down to fact that nobody fears reprecussions because there are shag all reprecussions.

A fine Garda, Robert McCallion, was killed by a piece of garbage from Donegal who drove with intent at the Gardaí.
What did he get ?
7 years with one year suspended and all his multiple sentences to run concurrent.
The killer of Garda Gary McLoughlin, also in Donegal, got 8 years with final year suspended for ramming the patrol car.
And he ended up escaping from the open prison Loughan House.
WTF was a killer like him doing in an open prison ?

What do these cases tell the Gardaí ?
Go out and risk your life to try protect us and our property and we will reward your killers with soft prison time ?

The victims deserve something too you know.
BTW most of these do not even serve their real sentences, however paltry they are in the first place, because they get remission and time off for good behaviour before they even start.

You are sh** stirring and actually it appears trying to allocate blame to someone who can't defend themselves.

From what I have heard through some connected people, blame cannot in any way be leveled at the Gardaí for the atrocious crime and that they were given no warning.

However I do think Garda training is not good enough in lots of areas just like I think the equipment they are given is substandard in this day and age.
Listening to Joe Duffy yesterday (sorry was in the car at the time) they had a US policeman on, who was actually able through computer in his car to pick up RTE Radio on the web.
(not sure he should have been doing that )

Disregarding the firepower (side arms, tasors, shotgun and fully auto M16), the specially designed police cruisers have online access facilitates to run on the spot checks and some even have number plate recognition technology.

Meanwhile back here the Gardaí have good old Ford Fiestas, Mondeos, Avensis, etc.

As have most garda cars

jmayo · 01-02-2013 12:20PM

WileyCoyote wrote: »

As have most garda cars

Do all Garda cars have full online access now ?
Do any of them have number plate recognition systems ?

Also aren't most of these cars just your basic off the shelf cars offering no added protection to the occupants ?

Death and Taxes · 01-02-2013 12:23PM

jmayo wrote: »

Do all Garda cars have full online access now ?
Do any of them have number plate recognition systems ?

Also aren't most of these cars just your basic off the shelf cars offering no added protection to the occupants ?

Almost all Garda cars have front and rear number plate recognition systems, and they use them. This has led to a reduced need to carry out tax/insurance checkpoints as any car meeting a garda car has its number plate read and a warning alerts the Gardi if it is untaxed,uninsured etc.
That has been the case for a while now.

HondaSami · 01-02-2013 12:25PM

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Almost all Garda cars have front and rear number plate recognition systems, and they use them. This has led to a reduced need to carry out tax/insurance checkpoints as any car meeting a garda car has its number plate read and a warning alerts the Gardi if it is untaxed,uninsured etc.
That has been the case for a while now.

Only the traffic cars have ANPR.

Death and Taxes · 01-02-2013 12:27PM

HondaSami wrote: »

Only the traffic cars have ANPR.

No , standard cars have now been fitted, and since the reduction in sizeof the Traffic Corps many of their cars are now being used for "routine policing".
164 cars including 49 unmarked cars had been fitted with it in June 2011(http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2011/06/09/00130.asp)
As I said the numbers in the Traffic Corps have been slashed dramatically and many of those cars, are now in general use within AGS.

HondaSami · 01-02-2013 12:29PM

WileyCoyote wrote: »

No , standard cars have now been fitted, and since the reduction in sizeof the Traffic Corps many of their cars are now being used for "routine policing".

Really, you have a link for this?

164 cars have ANPR, how many cars in the garda fleet, 3000 or there abouts, hardly correct to say almost all cars have ANPR

TheNog · 01-02-2013 12:42PM

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Almost all Garda cars have front and rear number plate recognition systems, and they use them. This has led to a reduced need to carry out tax/insurance checkpoints as any car meeting a garda car has its number plate read and a warning alerts the Gardi if it is untaxed,uninsured etc.
That has been the case for a while now.

That's not correct WC. ANPR was and still is only fitted to Traffic Corp vehicles. Regular patrol cars do not have ANPR.

It maybe that some Gardai on the regular might have use of an ANPR car but it is not the norm

TheNog · 01-02-2013 12:44PM

jmayo wrote: »

Do all Garda cars have full online access now ?
Do any of them have number plate recognition systems ?

Also aren't most of these cars just your basic off the shelf cars offering no added protection to the occupants ?

No in-car computer.
No ANPR on regular patrol cars
Yes the cars are bog standard cars

Death and Taxes · 01-02-2013 12:49PM

HondaSami wrote: »

Really, you have a link for this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garda_Traffic_Corps
There are 116 vehicles in the DMR Traffic Corps fleet (18th February 2011) as follows:

65 Motorcycles (22 Yamaha FJRs, 2 Pan European 1100, 41 Honda Deauvilles)
28 Marked (overt) patrol cars
10 Unmarked (covert) patrol cars
12 Jeeps
1 ' Robot' - Mobile Speed Detection Van

So the Traffic Corps at its height only had 28 Marked Cars and 12 marked Jeeps plus 38 unmarked cars/jeeps.
Yet as my earlier link to the Oireachtas question shows the number plate recognition system ANPR had been fitted to 164 cars of which 49 were unmarked, meaning that cars not in Traffic Corps service were and are fitted with it.
With regard to some Traffic Corps vehicles being reassigned it is anecdotal in that it was told to me by a serving member of AGS.

mark renton · 01-02-2013 12:49PM

Well done jmayo... Your ignorance toward subjective anslysis of events is impressive.

Death and Taxes · 01-02-2013 12:50PM

mark renton wrote: »

Well done jmayo... Your ignorance toward subjective anslysis of events is impressive.

Whats your problem? Why all the cheap personal digs?

HondaSami · 01-02-2013 12:52PM

WileyCoyote wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garda_Traffic_Corps
There are 116 vehicles in the DMR Traffic Corps fleet (18th February 2011) as follows:
65 Motorcycles (22 Yamaha FJRs, 2 Pan European 1100, 41 Honda Deauvilles)

28 Marked (overt) patrol cars

10 Unmarked (covert) patrol cars

12 Jeeps

1 ' Robot' - Mobile Speed Detection Van

So the Traffic Corps at its height only had 28 Marked Cars and 12 marked Jeeps plus 38 unmarked cars/jeeps.
Yet as my earlier link to the Oireachtas question shows the number plate recognition system ANPR had been fitted to 164 cars of which 49 were unmarked, meaning that cars not in Traffic Corps service were and are fitted with it.
With regard to some Traffic Corps vehicles being reassigned it is anecdotal in that it was told to me by a serving member of AGS.

You agree not all cars are fitted with ANPR ? There are 116 cars in the DMR.

mark renton · 01-02-2013 12:56PM

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Whats your problem? Why all the cheap personal digs?

It was a response to the accusations of sh1t stirring, which you didnt seem to question. Try keep up with the context wc

Death and Taxes · 01-02-2013 12:58PM

WileyCoyote wrote: »

As have most garda cars

TheNog wrote: »

That's not correct WC. ANPR was and still is only fitted to Traffic Corp vehicles. Regular patrol cars do not have ANPR.

It maybe that some Gardai on the regular might have use of an ANPR car but it is not the norm

That cant be the case since it has been fitted as of june 2011 to considerably more carrs than than the Traffic Corps (which has since been reduced) had at the time. See above links.

Death and Taxes · 01-02-2013 01:12PM

HondaSami wrote: »

You agree not all cars are fitted with ANPR ?

I agree not all, no probs

, but certainly not only Traffic Corps.
Have to say I no idea they had 3,000 cars.

jmayo · 01-02-2013 02:52PM

TheNog wrote: »

No in-car computer.
No ANPR on regular patrol cars
Yes the cars are bog standard cars

I would say one of the scary things must be for a Garda to be in the likes of a Fiesta or some such, to suddenly be tragetted for ramming by a much bigger heavier vehicle that is being used by joyriders or criminals.

I also recall seeing stupid things like at an agricultural event where a Fiesta patriol car was trying to negogiate a slippery muddy slope when a 4x4 patrol vehicle would have done it easily.
It was like the local Garda were just told to go and make do with whatever they had to hand.
And I know it is the fault of the ones who hold the purse strings.

mark renton wrote: »

Well done jmayo... Your ignorance toward subjective anslysis of events is impressive.

So far on this thread you have tried to all intents and purposes laid blame for the murder on both the Gardaí involved by claiming they should not have approached the car in the manner they did and at the Garda as a whole by claiming their procedures and training is lacking.

You have refused to acknowledge that it looks like it was planned ambush where the Garda had very little chance to react.
You have come up with such statements as that he surprised them when they were hiding and thus they shot him.
You do know he was shot from behind.

Even if he had his weapon drawn, he had no chance when someone hopped up from behind and shot first with no warning.

BTW don't expect the rest of us to either agree with or stand by whilst you engage in your subjective analysis which appears to be throwing unjust aspersions on a man who is no longer around to defend himself.

mark renton · 01-02-2013 03:05PM

Just to prove ur complete ignorance and closed mindedness mayo - go find the complete sentence I posted and add it here, rather than the selective part you conveniently added above - then conpare the 2 - when done, add here what you have missed. If you cannot achieve this then there is no point in your repetitive ignorant jibes.

Potential-Monke · 01-02-2013 03:36PM

In relation to the fleet, the majority (if not all) Garda cars are standard cars with lights added. That is all. Recently most new cars have the standard radios removed. That is about the only modification.

BMW had the tender in for the coming years, stating that they would provide job specific cars, that is built for the purpose of policing: proper suspension, proper brakes, basic interior to save weight, hardened chassis, etc, at a cheaper cost, but someone decided that no, they will stick with standard cars and stick lights on them. I don't have a link, because something like this would not make it to the media. You can take my word as a member for evidence. If that's not good enough, well there's nothing more i can do. Unfortunately, the powers that be do not want this kind of information, backed up with evidence, leaking as it wouldn't look good for them.

@mark_renton: Unfortunately, you're going to have to accept that this countries police force is one built upon trust between the members and the community. We do not approach every situation expecting trouble. We approach situations with the intent that there is minimal effect on the public. We are trained to diffuse situations without the need to resort to force (albeit, sometimes that's unavoidable, and there are always exceptions to the rule). An abandoned car would not trigger alarms. People in this country can't drive properly, so it's not uncommon to see an abandoned vehicle blocking something.

I think i get where you're going with this, but do you really want our police force turning into a aggressive force, approaching every situation like it could be our last? It wouldn't take long for people to start putting in claims of excessive force against them if we approached every "suspicious" situation with weapons drawn (including Pepper Spray and ASP). You see a Garda coming towards you with his ASP drawn, you think he is going to use it, and you'll react. If they approach you with nothing drawn, it can lead to a more civil conclusion.

Happyman42 · 01-02-2013 04:22PM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I think i get where you're going with this, but do you really want our police force turning into a aggressive force, approaching every situation like it could be our last? It wouldn't take long for people to start putting in claims of excessive force against them if we approached every "suspicious" situation with weapons drawn (including Pepper Spray and ASP). You see a Garda coming towards you with his ASP drawn, you think he is going to use it, and you'll react. If they approach you with nothing drawn, it can lead to a more civil conclusion.

I think you are spot on here, a week on and I think we need to calm down as a public and realise that an event like this is, fortunately, extremely rare. What is badly needed is a thorough evaluation of where we are at from a resources point of view. The solution lies in a modern efficient police force, properly equipped and resourced and linked to all the services of the state. We need our force interacting with youth at all levels of society so that they don't become the 'bad guys'.
What we don't need is a post 9-11 style, over reaction.

MagicSean · 01-02-2013 07:37PM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

In relation to the fleet, the majority (if not all) Garda cars are standard cars with lights added. That is all. Recently most new cars have the standard radios removed. That is about the only modification.

BMW had the tender in for the coming years, stating that they would provide job specific cars, that is built for the purpose of policing: proper suspension, proper brakes, basic interior to save weight, hardened chassis, etc, at a cheaper cost, but someone decided that no, they will stick with standard cars and stick lights on them. I don't have a link, because something like this would not make it to the media. You can take my word as a member for evidence. If that's not good enough, well there's nothing more i can do. Unfortunately, the powers that be do not want this kind of information, backed up with evidence, leaking as it wouldn't look good for them.

You couldn't have Gardai driving BMWs in a recession. What would Joe Duffy say?

Airitech · 01-02-2013 07:52PM

MagicSean wrote: »

You couldn't have Gardai driving BMWs in a recession. What would Joe Duffy say?

Ford Connects are all well and good until its Joe's house being robbed. It wouldn't do to show up late to that job.

Judgement Day · 01-02-2013 07:53PM

There was a 2003D Toyota Yaris Garda car outside Enniscorthy Garda Station today when we went to sign the condolence book - where would you get it.

CZ 453 · 01-02-2013 09:11PM

Ming has caused some controversy with the Gardai following his comments on the Vincent Browne show. A very bad time to call the cops corrupt following the death of their colleague.

http://www.facebook.com/Lukemingflanagan?fref=ts

MagicSean · 01-02-2013 09:37PM

shezer wrote: »

Ming has caused some controversy with the Gardai following his comments on the Vincent Browne show. A very bad time to call the cops corrupt following the death of their colleague.

http://www.facebook.com/Lukemingflanagan?fref=ts

Sure he wouldn't have gotten the same publicity if he'd waited.

Rusty_Mectum · 01-02-2013 10:21PM

MagicSean wrote: »

You couldn't have Gardai driving BMWs in a recession. What would Joe Duffy say?

I'd imagine he'd be happy enough

Www.joeduffybmw.ie

Voltex · 01-02-2013 10:26PM

Rusty_Mectum wrote: »

I'd imagine he'd be happy enough

Www.joeduffybmw.ie

Brilliant!!

bedirect · 02-02-2013 12:15AM

ming should realise that the guards dealt with corruption over the years, and tossed those involved out on their ear. Its a pity the clergy didnt do the same, instead of transferring sex abusers to other parishes.The guards themselves took guards to court over the years, seems like a dirty job, but thats why the ombudsman was introduced. Ming must have had too much Wacky-Backy that night. Typical politican, looking for cheap headlines, I wonder will people vote him in again

Run_to_da_hills · 02-02-2013 12:26AM

R.I.P to the Garda Adrian Donohoe and condolences to his family friends and his colleagues

Managed to sign a book of condolence at our local Garda Station.

(I was away from the forum for the last few weeks and thought I'd leave with this note.)

Garda shot dead during robbery at Louth Credit Union(Mod warning, 1st post.)

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