Garda shot dead during robbery at Louth Credit Union(Mod warning, 1st post.)

johnnycarrick · 31-01-2013 03:48PM

I have been following this thread for some time. Some very thought provoking posts on it.
I would just like to give my sympathy to the wife and children of the Gard.
He sounds like a decent man by all accounts, and will be missed.
No man going out to earn an honest days pay to provide for his family, deserves not to come home at the end of the day.
I know that the killer will be caught in due course, if they had any sense they would have turned themself in by now.
I hope anyone helping to hide the killer does the right thing and gives them up.
This has made me think, there can be no God; if there was, then why would he allow this to happen to a good man?
I for one feel sad when I walk by my local Garda station and see the Tricolour flag at half mast.
Gards are ordinary people doing an extraordinary job.

mark renton · 31-01-2013 04:02PM

My name is URL wrote: »

I'm only repeating what I have read about it.. I've no idea about the specific details like where the car was when the Gardai arrived.

You seem intent on trying to convince others that it wasn't an ambush of sorts. Why is that? Maybe you don't know what the word ambush actually means, but when 5 men jump from behind a wall and shoot a person in the back of the head I think most folk would see that as an ambush.

From the dictionary -

Have no intention of convincing anyone of anything, and my education is thankfully sufficient to comprehend the word ambush - its just that the holes in your version of the events are big enough to push an elephant through.

MagicSean · 31-01-2013 04:12PM

mark renton wrote: »

Have no intention of convincing anyone of anything, and my education is thankfully sufficient to comprehend the word ambush - its just that the holes in your version of the events are big enough to push an elephant through.

Could you elaborate on that? It sounds like a pretty believable and probable account to me.

Witcher · 31-01-2013 04:19PM

Paulway wrote: »

I was in Galway last week and saw some army guys "strolling" down the town - side by side - with slung weapons - "having a chat".
They were providing armed security also.
Don't wish to tar with the same brush, but if you are "armed security" you are in a forward position and should behave as such.
And be trained to behave as such.
If this was a lack of training - SHAME ON THOSE WHO ARE RESPONCIBLE FOR GARDS TRAINING - AGAIN.

They don't need to have the rifle shouldered and at the ready. Nobody who wants to see tomorrow's dawn is going to fcuk with soldiers carrying assault rifles. The DF just turning up and standing there is deterrent enough.

The only reason the fcukers survived this time was that they shot one Garda without warning and the other was cornered in a car unable to draw his gun, if he had been in a position to draw it and fire they'd be on a slab as we speak.

mark renton · 31-01-2013 04:29PM

MagicSean wrote: »

Could you elaborate on that? It sounds like a pretty believable and probable account to me.

Well if nobody was in the car when the guards got there, and the car was blocking one exit (entry could also be considered as an exit). Then at what point did the guards consider this suspicious, then decide to get out of their own car and approach?

This would mean that the bad guys anticipated that the guards would leave their own car to investigate.

Usually the guards would remain in their own car to investigate.

Just doesnt make sense to me.

Witcher · 31-01-2013 04:35PM

mark renton wrote: »

Well if nobody was in the car when the guards got there, and the car was blocking one exit (entry could also be considered as an exit). Then at what point did the guards consider this suspicious, then decide to get out of their own car and approach?

This would mean that the bad guys anticipated that the guards would leave their own car to investigate.

Usually the guards would remain in their own car to investigate.

Just doesnt make sense to me.

The car park at Lordship CU is completely open to the public for their use, so for a car to be at the entrance wouldn't be unusual.

It's easy to say 'well he should have drawn his gun etc'...it could have just been a regular member of the public that stopped at the entrance. We don't know of someone was in it or not...if there was then Det. Donohoe probably thought it was someone having car trouble etc.

MagicSean · 31-01-2013 04:36PM

mark renton wrote: »

Well if nobody was in the car when the guards got there, and the car was blocking one exit (entry could also be considered as an exit). Then at what point did the guards consider this suspicious, then decide to get out of their own car and approach?

This would mean that the bad guys anticipated that the guards would leave their own car to investigate.

Usually the guards would remain in their own car to investigate.

Just doesnt make sense to me.

Usually? On what are you basing this claim that "usually" the guards investigate a suspicious car from their own car? Did you even read the account given above? The detective got out of his car to check out the car parked at the entrance and was shot in the head by someone who had been hiding. I mean what part of that is so hard to believe?

I know you like to troll threads with your devils advocate posts but you're making a fool of yourself here.

mark renton · 31-01-2013 04:41PM

Blay wrote: »

The car park at Lordship CU is completely open to the public for their use, so for a car to be at the entrance wouldn't be unusual.

It's easy to say 'well he should have drawn his gun etc'...it could have just been a regular member of the public that stopped at the entrance. We don't know of someone was in it or not...if there was then Det. Donohoe probably thought it was someone having car trouble etc.

Yes, if there was someone in the car, however I questioned Url's account given that the car was empty.

mark renton · 31-01-2013 04:43PM

MagicSean wrote: »

Usually? On what are you basing this claim that "usually" the guards investigate a suspicious car from their own car? Did you even read the account given above? The detective got out of his car to check out the car parked at the entrance and was shot in the head by someone who had been hiding. I mean what part of that is so hard to believe?

I know you like to troll threads with your devils advocate posts but you're making a fool of yourself here.

Your inability to communicate adequately is remarkable sean... Well done again.

Witcher · 31-01-2013 04:44PM

mark renton wrote: »

Yes, if there was someone in the car, however I questioned Url's account given that the car was empty.

Apologies, I picked you up wrong.

Potential-Monke · 31-01-2013 10:45PM

mark renton wrote: »

Your inability to communicate adequately is remarkable sean... Well done again.

Gardai come across thousands of "suspicious" vehicles every day. The majority of them are harmless, either broken down, looking for directions, on the phone, popped into somewhere for a few minutes, etc. Most "suspicious" vehicles are nothing more than that. The ones that turn out to actually be suspicious are never expected to contain people who are willing to shoot without question. Jesus, most genuinely suspicious vehicles are expected to drive off at speed when approached.

Getting shot when approaching a vehicle is not the norm, and i hope it never is. D/Garda Donohue done what i'm sure he had done thousands of times in his career. If every Detective, approached every suspicious car with their sidearm drawn, it wouldn't take too long for them to end up having their licence taken away and removed from Detective duties.

We are lucky in this country that we don't need every suspicious vehicle approached with firearms drawn. Regardless of the circumstances, unless it is known that there is someone armed and dangerous in the vehicle, it would be approached like every other vehicle.

Hopefully that answers your concerns, and stops you attempting (deliberate or not) putting part of the blame on a murdered Garda.

mark renton · 31-01-2013 11:05PM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Hopefully that answers your concerns, and stops you attempting (deliberate or not) putting part of the blame on a murdered Garda.

Actually your post raises many more questions - given the part of the country we are talking about surely extra caution would be taken approaching such a car?Anyways my curiosity was in regards to maybe it wasnt an ambush, maybe he surprised them.

You will have to forgive me here if it appears I am applying blame - I do believe this is still a discussion forum.

tayto lover · 31-01-2013 11:19PM

mark renton wrote: »

Actually your post raises many more questions - given the part of the country we are talking about surely extra caution would be taken approaching such a car?Anyways my curiosity was in regards to maybe it wasnt an ambush, maybe he surprised them.

You will have to forgive me here if it appears I am applying blame - I do believe this is still a discussion forum.

You are not going to be happy with whatever you are told so just drop it please and await the story in due course.

catallus · 31-01-2013 11:20PM

There's a lot of guessing going on here into how the actual event occurred. Why can't we just admit nobody has a clear picture of how this tragedy happened in full detail. It's sad to see some people second-guessing each other here.

mark renton · 31-01-2013 11:28PM

Sure just get the mods to close the thread now. No discussion or speculation permitted. Whats the point.

catallus · 31-01-2013 11:30PM

You are trying to figure out how a man got killed, seemingly using your knowledge of heist movies as a basis for groundless criticism about how the victim went about his job.

Stheno · 31-01-2013 11:30PM

Tabloids full of speculation, photos (blurred) and alleged details of the prime suspect in the attack.

brandon_flowers · 31-01-2013 11:33PM

There is only entrance/exit to the Credit Union in Belurgan and the car park is massive for the number of cars that are ever parked in there. A car blocking the entrance would be quiet unusual, I would say almost too unusual. Look it up on Google Maps if you don't believe me.

Also Dt Donohue would have known the place fairly well considering he lived a few km's away and did that escort on numerous occasions. I simply do not believe he did anything he shouldn't have done by going to investigate a car blocking the entrance/exit.

Death and Taxes · 31-01-2013 11:34PM

Amazing how certain posters who have never served in AGS can second guess the actions and judgement of a murdered dectective without actually having any evidence as to the details of what occured in the seconds before he was murdered so cold bloodedly.

repsol · 31-01-2013 11:36PM

Stheno wrote: »

Tabloids full of speculation, photos (blurred) and alleged details of the prime suspect in the attack.

Those blurred photos of "suspects" are pathetic.Probably a blurred photo of some other muppet working for the rag that printed it. A lot of these so called crime reporters are only relaying second or third hand information and rumours and pretend they cannot print proper photos or name people because of legal reasons when the real reason is they know nothing of substance.

Gee_G · 31-01-2013 11:36PM

brandon_flowers wrote: »

There is only entrance/exit to the Credit Union in Belurgan and the car park is massive for the number of cars that are ever parked in there. A car blocking the entrance would be quiet unusual, I would say almost too unusual. Look it up on Google Maps if you don't believe me.

Also Dt Donohue would have known the place fairly well considering he lived a few km's away and did that escort on numerous occasions. I simply do not believe he did anything he shouldn't have done by going to investigate a car blocking the entrance/exit.

Of course he didn't do anything he shouldn't have!
People here saying he should have approached gun in hand is madness! Me or you or any Joe soap could have been pulled in on the phone as one poster said above!

brandon_flowers · 31-01-2013 11:43PM

Gee_G wrote: »

Of course he didn't do anything he shouldn't have!
People here saying he should have approached gun in hand is madness! Me or you or any Joe soap could have been pulled in on the phone as one poster said above!

Of course but what I meant is that a car blocking the entrance with nobody in it is just too unusual for that place, hence he had to investigate it. He was guarding €40,000 he was hardly going to let a car block the way and endanger the cash in transit. He was doing his job, end of.

repsol · 31-01-2013 11:50PM

The people who are saying that the Guard should have drawn his weapon would be the first to want him sacked if he did and it was a false alarm. This is Ireland not Mexico. Policemen here do not draw their weapons without VERY good reason.I think some people have seen too many American police shows on TV. The man was murdered and the guys that did it are cowardly scumbags. End of story.

macadam · 31-01-2013 11:50PM

When the Gardaì draw there weapons they have to warn the perpetrators and the public in the immediate area, the perpetrators last Friday night gave Adrian no warning what so ever, two of them were hiding behind the piers when the car blocked the entrance if you look at the scene and it was black dark you will realise he had no chance, when he didnt see it coming.

tayto lover · 01-02-2013 12:07AM

repsol wrote: »

Those blurred photos of "suspects" are pathetic.Probably a blurred photo of some other muppet working for the rag that printed it. A lot of these so called crime reporters are only relaying second or third hand information and rumours and pretend they cannot print proper photos or name people because of legal reasons when the real reason is they know nothing of substance.

I'd say some of the gardai wind them up big-time too.

catallus · 01-02-2013 12:08AM

tayto lover wrote: »

I'd say some of the gardai wind them up big-time too.

I'd hope so!

K-9 · 01-02-2013 12:14AM

I don't see much point in speculating about his murder, especially without any links or reports to back it up, methinks we need a bit more than watching Heat as grounds for posting stuff.

I don't mind discussing what might have happened and lessons to learn, but let's not go into totally unfounded speculation based on watching too many Hollywood films and TV series.

repsol · 01-02-2013 12:14AM

tayto lover wrote: »

I'd say some of the gardai wind them up big-time too.

Yeah,I'm sure they do and a small few probably pass them info. I doubt any Guards are in the mood for wind ups at the moment though.

tayto lover · 01-02-2013 12:19AM

repsol wrote: »

Yeah,I'm sure they do and a small few probably pass them info. I doubt any Guards are in the mood for wind ups at the moment though.

I was speaking in general.

catallus · 01-02-2013 12:20AM

I know speculation is pointless but I'd be willing to wager that the culprit(s) in this case were well acquainted with handcuffs and Garda Stations and courts. It has been said previously that the responsibility for the death lies squarely with the criminals.

Can I ask if anyone here agrees that if it should be revealed that these dicks were on suspended sentences or have a long list of previous serious convictions that at least some of the blood lays on the hands of the Criminal Justice System?

Garda shot dead during robbery at Louth Credit Union(Mod warning, 1st post.)

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