Garda shot dead during robbery at Louth Credit Union(Mod warning, 1st post.)

Maysa07 · 29-01-2013 12:47PM

Dymo wrote: »

Can someone explain why there is a different story appearing each day of what actually happened, firstly the car was across the road the guard approached and then was shot.

Then the car was blocking the entrance with the gunmen inside when approached the guard was shot.

Now it appears the gunmen were behind a wall and only one man in the car and when the car was approached then the others jumped over the wall and shot.

I'm just wondering what was the actual true version of events or are we going to have to wait weeks for that to come out. Were proper protocols followed, was it as cold blooded as reported? It doesn't change the fact that the garda was killed but I just would like to hear the true version of events.

I guess we will never know the truth unless there where witnesses.

My guess is the guards where confronted and told not to do anything or else... and perhaps he went for the gun and got shot as a result? But yeah like you said it doesn't change the fact that a Gard was killed i would like to know true version of events.

repsol · 29-01-2013 12:55PM

Maysa07 wrote: »

I guess we will never know the truth unless there where witnesses.

My guess is the guards where confronted and told not to do anything or else... and perhaps he went for the gun and got shot as a result? But yeah like you said it doesn't change the fact that a Gard was killed i would like to know true version of events.

There was a witness.The Guard who was not injured should make a good witness.

Witcher · 29-01-2013 01:05PM

Maysa07 wrote: »

I guess we will never know the truth unless there where witnesses.

My guess is the guards where confronted and told not to do anything or else... and perhaps he went for the gun and got shot as a result? But yeah like you said it doesn't change the fact that a Gard was killed i would like to know true version of events.

Nobody is going to go attempt to draw a gun when they have a shotgun pointed at their head. This isn't a Dirty Harry film...it's real life ffs:rolleyes:

Unless you're Bob Munden and you can draw it faster than the other person can even perceive the movement of your hand...you keep your hands in the air. The consensus seems to be that Det. Donoghue was shot without any warning.

Maysa07 · 29-01-2013 01:14PM

repsol wrote: »

There was a witness.The Guard who was not injured should make a good witness.

Yeah that's a real good independent witness ?

Blay wrote: »

Nobody is going to go attempt to draw a gun when you have a shotgun pointed at their head. This isn't a Dirty Harry film...it's real life ffs:rolleyes:

Unless you're Bob Munden and you can draw it faster than the other person can even perceive the movement of your hand...you keep your hands in the air. The consensus seems to be that Det. Donoghue was shot without any warning.

I find it hard to believe that even these brain dead scumbags would walk up to a guard and shoot him dead for nothing other than being there?
Even the dogs on the street know you don't shoot a guard because that would obviously create a larger man hunt.

Maybe Det. Donoghue wanted to be a hero? who knows..

Death and Taxes · 29-01-2013 01:22PM

Maysa07 wrote: »

Yeah that's a real good independent witness ?
Are you inferring somthing? If so put up or shut up! I have no doubt Garda Ryan will make a good witness.

I find it hard to believe that even these brain dead scumbags would walk up to a guard and shoot him dead for nothing other than being there?
Even the dogs on the street know you don't shoot a guard because that would obviously create a larger man hunt.

Maybe Det. Donoghue wanted to be a hero? who knows..

You certainly dont anyway! Why dont you take your snide comments elsewhere?

tayto lover · 29-01-2013 01:24PM

Maysa07 wrote: »

Yeah that's a real good independent witness ?

I find it hard to believe that even these brain dead scumbags would walk up to a guard and shoot him dead for nothing other than being there?
Even the dogs on the street know you don't shoot a guard because that would obviously create a larger man hunt.

Maybe Det. Donoghue wanted to be a hero? who knows..

Your last line is pathetic to be honest.
At the moment Garda Donohoe left his car to check out the other car there was no threat.
If there were elderly people in that car waiting for someone to come from the Credit Union and Garda Donohue approached with a gun pointed at them there would possibly have been someone taking a heart attack. They did not obviously think that way as the other Garda didn't even get out of the car to go with his partner. I don't believe they felt threatened. There are often cars parked there. My reading of it is that it was in fact a cold-blooded murder. As Garda Donoghue had not drawn his gun there was no need to shoot him. They could have pointed their weapons at him and forced him to lie down. The others quickly jumped the wall and surrounded the car with Garda Ryan in it before he could act.

My guess is that there is a psychopath among that gang who was intent on bloodshed. Someone who has possibly murdered before.

MagicSean · 29-01-2013 01:30PM

Maysa07 wrote: »

brain dead

Yes, that's the word alright.

Witcher · 29-01-2013 01:31PM

Maysa07 wrote: »

I find it hard to believe that even these brain dead scumbags would walk up to a guard and shoot him dead for nothing other than being there?
Even the dogs on the street know you don't shoot a guard because that would obviously create a larger man hunt.

Maybe Det. Donoghue wanted to be a hero? who knows..

It's looking increasingly likely that they were involved in some way with dissidents in the North...I think we can all agree they don't give two sh1ts who you are and what you're doing if you're in their way they'll remove you. They shot two British soldiers just for collecting a pizza...consequences mean nothing to them.

I'm not saying Det. Donogue didn't approach the car with his hand on his gun but there's no way he surrendered and then went for the gun..that's just madness and would have gotten them both killed. They shot Det. Donoghue and made their point that they meant business so Det. Ryan surrendered.

The detective wanting to be a hero makes no sense, in most robberies they would have subdued everyone there, took the money and went so for him to have supposedly surrendered and then attempted to draw his gun to be a 'hero' is ridiculous..what was to be gained by doing it? Nothing. They were outnumbered 5-2 and the robbers supposedly had 2 firearms and the Gardai were escorting CU workers..a firefight probably wouldn't have gone their way in that situation. Given that choice I would think most armed Gardai would surrender and live to fight another day..but clearly Det. Donoghue was never given a chance.

Dymo · 29-01-2013 01:32PM

Maysa07 wrote: »

My guess is the guards where confronted and told not to do anything or else... and perhaps he went for the gun and got shot as a result? But yeah like you said it doesn't change the fact that a Gard was killed i would like to know true version of events.

Its just the way it's being reported, that's annoying me. A different story everyday. I've heard of the tactic used by police forces to give false information in the hope of the perpetrators coming out of the woodwork to give a more accurate account, possibly going on here. Either way it went down a lot different than some one walking over to a car and getting shot. But everyone is afraid to say that because then people accuse you of being on the side of the gun men.

repsol · 29-01-2013 01:33PM

Maysa07 wrote: »

Yeah that's a real good independent witness ?

What is better than someone trained to be observant as a witness?

I find it hard to believe that even these brain dead scumbags would walk up to a guard and shoot him dead for nothing other than being there?
Even the dogs on the street know you don't shoot a guard because that would obviously create a larger man hunt.

Maybe Det. Donoghue wanted to be a hero? who knows..

Any person who routinely puts themselves in harms way at work such as Guards ,firefighters ,prison officers,RNLI, coastguard helicopter crews etc is a hero in my opinion.They are heading towards a danger when everyone else is running away from it.I am sure Mr. Donoghue could have got a safer job.He chose not to.

Gee_G · 29-01-2013 01:37PM

This thread is going downhill rapidly.

Nobody knows what happened and nobody will until there is official information released by the Gardai. its ridiculous and disrespectful some of the stuff that is being posted here(obviously apart from the condolences and genuine discussions)

Witcher · 29-01-2013 01:37PM

Dymo wrote: »

Either way it went down a lot different than some one walking over to a car and getting shot.

Tell us all how exactly you know this. You seem to be in the know so help out the investigation; 1800 666 111.

MagicSean · 29-01-2013 01:41PM

Dymo wrote: »

Its just the way it's being reported, that's annoying me. A different story everyday. I've heard of the tactic used by police forces to give false information in the hope of the perpetrators coming out of the woodwork to give a more accurate account, possibly going on here. Either way it went down a lot different than some one walking over to a car and getting shot. But everyone is afraid to say that because then people accuse you of being on the side of the gun men.

I don't think people would accuse you of being on the side of the gunmen. They might accuse you of being an idiot, or maybe just incredibly naive. The reason you hear different accounts is because no two witnesses will describe a traumatic event the same way. They forget some stuff and fill in the blanks themselves. They tell their friends who do the same. The papers just report whatever they can get their hands on so you end up with loads of different versions.

I'm not exactly sure why you think he wasn't shot in cold blood. There are plenty of people out there who would have no problem killing a Garda if they thought he was in the way.

Biggins · 29-01-2013 01:44PM

Maysa07 wrote: »

...Maybe Det. Donoghue wanted to be a hero? who knows..

Thats a disguising remark. Absolutely disgusting.

Dymo · 29-01-2013 01:45PM

Blay wrote: »

Tell us all how exactly you know this. You seem to be in the know so help out the investigation; 1800 666 111.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/video-killers-lurked-behind-walls-to-spring-trap-on-detectives-3369055.html

Witcher · 29-01-2013 01:48PM

Dymo wrote: »

Either way it went down a lot different than some one walking over to a car and getting shot.

Dymo wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/video-killers-lurked-behind-walls-to-spring-trap-on-detectives-3369055.html

Did you even read that article? Specifically this section;

The armed gang who lay in wait deliberately murdered Det Gda Donohoe as another of their members blocked the exit from the credit union car park where the officers were trapped.

Det Gda Donohoe was blasted with a shotgun at close range after the men leapt out when he approached to investigate.

Biggins · 29-01-2013 01:50PM

Dymo wrote: »

Can someone explain why there is a different story appearing each day of what actually happened...

Its very simple and obvious to most.
The Gardi are giving nothing away (damn right!) so that the culprits don't know if and when they are going to be caught.
The Gardi are giving nothing away which might effect a successful prosecution later.

The press - at least the gutter ones - is coming up with all sorts of filler crap when they have feck all else to fill their pages besides big headlines.
Take all the media stories with a pinch of salt - they know bugger all at this stage or at least informing the public of such.
They are making some crap up as they go along - and if they are, its nothing new for them.
I suspect they are hearing of third-hand information and trying to pass it on as absolute events.
Most papers does not refuse ink - but too many fools buy too much into it!

Bergkamp 10 · 29-01-2013 01:57PM

Blay wrote: »

Tell us all how exactly you know this. You seem to be in the know so help out the investigation; 1800 666 111.

Coming from you, blaming dissident republicans with no information at all . You don't deal in irony do you? Pathetic.

My name is URL · 29-01-2013 01:59PM

Will you all stop bickering ffs

Mint Sauce · 29-01-2013 02:00PM

Condolences to all of Garda Adrian Donohoe family, friends and colleagues. Really hope that the the powers that be, use every single resource at their disposal to find those who did this.

Death and Taxes · 29-01-2013 02:02PM

irish-stew wrote: »

Condolences to all of Garda Adrian Donohoe family, friends and colleagues. Really hope that the the powers that be, use every single resource at their disposal to find those who did this.

FYP

Witcher · 29-01-2013 02:03PM

Bergkamp 10 wrote: »

Coming from you, blaming dissident republicans with no information at all . You don't deal in irony do you? Pathetic.

I said it looked likely that it was dissidents..I'm speculating based on a gap in the evidence, the poster I quoted by comparison is questioning something that is agreed upon in all the news sources and in fact linked an article which contradicted his own point. Cold blooded murder and a car burned out in Armagh is pointing the finger a certain direction here. As the Garda Commissioner said on the RTE News the other night..a Garda being shot dead as part of a robbery in unusual when you're dealing with 'ordinary criminals' as he put it and one has to agree with him.

Look back 17 years...who shot Jerry McCabe? Criminals here tend not to shoot Gardai and when it is done it's usually by a group of hardline criminals..robbery 5 miles from the border, Garda shot dead and a car burned out in Armagh..I don't know what that says to you but it says something to me.

My name is URL · 29-01-2013 02:10PM

Blay wrote: »

I said it looked likely that it was dissidents..I'm speculating based on a gap in the evidence, the poster I quoted by comparison is questioning something that is agreed upon in all the news sources and in fact linked an article which contradicted his own point. Cold blooded murder and a car burned out in Armagh is pointing the finger a certain direction here. As the Garda Commissioner said on the RTE News the other night..a Garda being shot dead as part of a robbery in unusual when you're dealing with 'ordinary criminals' as he put it and one has to agree with him.

Look back 17 years...who shot Jerry McCabe? Criminals here tend not to shoot Gardai and when it is done it's usually by a group of hardline criminals..robbery 5 miles from the border, Garda shot dead and a car burned out in Armagh..I don't know what that says to you but it says something to me.

Both PSNI and Garda intelligence units have said that dissident republican involvement is unlikely.

.jacksparrow. · 29-01-2013 02:11PM

Blay wrote: »

I said it looked likely that it was dissidents..I'm speculating based on a gap in the evidence, the poster I quoted by comparison is questioning something that is agreed upon in all the news sources and in fact linked an article which contradicted his own point. Cold blooded murder and a car burned out in Armagh is pointing the finger a certain direction here. As the Garda Commissioner said on the RTE News the other night..a Garda being shot dead as part of a robbery in unusual when you're dealing with 'ordinary criminals' as he put it and one has to agree with him.

Look back 17 years...who shot Jerry McCabe? Criminals here tend not to shoot Gardai and when it is done it's usually by a group of hardline criminals..robbery 5 miles from the border, Garda shot dead and a car burned out in Armagh..I don't know what that says to you but it says something to me.

Actually its looking like a gang from dublin who are based near the border.

Witcher · 29-01-2013 02:12PM

My name is URL wrote: »

Both PSNI and Garda intelligence units have said that dissident republican involvement is unlikely.

Unlikely but not impossible..I didn't say it was definitely dissidents but the Garda Comms. slant on it implied it was something more than the average group of criminals out for a quick score and a Garda being shot in the head without warning would back that up. Seems unusual to me that a group would attempt to steal money that they clearly knew was being moved by armed Gardai and shoot one of them dead with no warning...that's the kind of ruthlessness I would associate with people a bit more serious than the average armed robber.

Alan Shatter seems to be unsure too;

Speaking on RTÉ's Drivetime, the minister said it was not clear whether the group who carried out the killing and robbery "were engaged simply in organised crime" or were what he described as "criminal terrorists who fly the tri-colour as a flag of convenience for their own personal financial gain".

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0128/364816-gardai-liaise-with-psni-in-detective-murder-probe/

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Actually its looking like a gang from dublin who are based near the border.

That ditch their vehicles in Armagh? Seems a bit convoluted.

My name is URL · 29-01-2013 02:28PM

Well of course it's something more than your average group of criminals, but that doesn't mean that it's dissidents. There are a lot of unhinged and ruthless scumbags out there. The Gardai have been aware of criminal gang activity in the border area for some time, it's not the first time that gangs originating in Dublin have been tied to robberies in Louth/Armagh. Anyway, it looks like the Gardai are making good progress in the investigation.. apparently they are 'close' to identifying the 5 men.

Gardaí believe the car used by the killers of Detective Garda Adrian Donohoe was stolen in Clogherhead, Co Louth, and remained in the area days before the armed robbery.

The burnt-out Volkswagen Passat found in woods in south Armagh is being forensically examined by the PSNI, who are working closely with gardaí in the investigation.

Gardaí have issued an appeal for anyone who may have seen such a car either parked up or being driven around the area to contact the incident room in Dundalk.

It has also emerged that Garda Donohoe was not due to be on duty last Friday night, but was filling in for a colleague.

The killing and robbery took place at the Lordship Credit Union in Bellurgan, Jenkinstown in Co Louth on Friday night.

Detectives say the gunman did not hesitate before shooting the 41-year-old in the head and believe they are close to identifying the five members of the gang involved.

The investigation into the murder is focusing in on a cross-border gang.

Gardaí say they are grateful for the response they have received from the public to their appeal for information and they are checking every report.

They will make a national televised appeal this evening on Crimecall, which begins at 10.15pm on RTÉ One.

Detectives are examining CCTV footage taken from local businesses, petrol stations and the Lordship Credit Union.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0129/364994-detective-garda-adrian-donohoe/

dr.bollocko · 29-01-2013 02:29PM

Maysa07 wrote: »

Yeah that's a real good independent witness ?

I find it hard to believe that even these brain dead scumbags would walk up to a guard and shoot him dead for nothing other than being there?
Even the dogs on the street know you don't shoot a guard because that would obviously create a larger man hunt.

Maybe Det. Donoghue wanted to be a hero? who knows..

Mod:
Post in this thread again = get banned

pah wrote: »

1. is this a question or a statement? You seem to be coming across with a certain level of sarcasm.

2. Just piss the fcuk off.

Same for you.

Use the report post function. Bickering on thread is just ruining it for everyone.

Lets try and return from the shaky ground we are on. Assumptions will get us nowhere.

allthedoyles · 29-01-2013 02:39PM

I would think if there was an organised Republicans involved , that car would never be found .

Name Changed · 29-01-2013 02:43PM

Blay wrote: »

That ditch their vehicles in Armagh? Seems a bit convoluted.

If a group of southern based criminals did do it, ditching the car up north would be a much better idea than going south. I would presume every available Garda resource at that time would have been looking for these people. With all due respect to the PSNI, obviously they wouldn't have everyone they have looking for the culprits. If they were even stopped in the north, could they be arrested for an offence in the south? I don't know. Assuming the car was stolen, if they went north it would make much more sense for them to take it from the south.

Name Changed · 29-01-2013 02:45PM

allthedoyles wrote: »

I would think if there was an organised Republicans involved , that car would never be found .

Not necessarily. I can think of a couple republican murders where the car was recovered.

Garda shot dead during robbery at Louth Credit Union(Mod warning, 1st post.)

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