Garda shot dead during robbery at Louth Credit Union(Mod warning, 1st post.)

MagicSean · 29-01-2013 12:28AM

Stabshauptmann wrote: »

Any more bollix you want to talk?

This may seem counter intuitive to you, but an armed Garda is more likely to be killed than an unarmed Garda.

I think you mean an armed Garda is more likely to be shot at. But that is not the case in this country.

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

No, I'm not the one being shot at, but I am an ordinary civilian. I don't want to be afraid of the Guard walking down the street because I know he or she is carrying a firearm. I also think arming the Gardaí would only mean that criminals are going to arm themselves even better to counter it.

Why would you be afraid of him?

Criminals have already armed themselves.

Stabshauptmann wrote: »

If we really did know who these people were, we could prove it in court.

Stabshauptmann wrote: »

Any more bollix you want to talk?

There's plenty of crimes that have been solved but never got to court or through court. Courtrooms are there to err on the side of caution. They prove guilt beyond reasonable doubt in a legal sense. Knowing is pretty easy. Proving is pretty hard.

Jester252 · 29-01-2013 12:32AM

I don't what to see any change in how the guards work. I just what his family to get justice for this crime

CZ 453 · 29-01-2013 12:32AM

North Louth and South Armagh seems to be lawless since Elizabeth the First. I would love to see a more pro active approach taken by both the PSNI and Gardai to deal with criminality in that area. A special task force. Garda Donohoe may have made the ultimate sacrifice and given the gift of unity to this whole island to stand up, work together and stamp out the criminality that plagues this island. These maggots that operate in that area like to use this countries flag to justify their criminal acts for the "Greater Cause". They don't represent this country and the folk that harbour them believing they are in some way contributing to a united country need to wake up and smell the effing coffee.

marcsignal · 29-01-2013 12:44AM

Jester252 wrote: »

I don't what to see any change in how the guards work.

I have to say I don't agree. I feel the guards need to approach this in the same way as they did with the Gilligan gang. 24/7 harassment for anyone suspected of being involved. Every time one of them runs an amber light, bust him, every time one of them is caught in a pub after hours, bust him, any time one of them is caught in a car without the proper documentation, bust him, any time any of them are found in possession of a pack of dodgy cigarettes, bust him, any time one of them is caught wearing a loud shirt in a residential area during the hours of darkness bust him. Confiscate their passports. Give them continuous grief and hassle 24/7 and purge them out of society altogether. They are not wanted by any right thinking person anywhere.

They have waged war on society. The Govt and society should respond in kind.

Jester252 wrote: »

I just what his family to get justice for this crime

Fully with you on this, it's just method and expediency where we part company.

Jester252 · 29-01-2013 12:50AM

marcsignal wrote: »

I have to say I don't agree. I feel the guards need to approach this in the same way as they did with the Gilligan gang. 24/7 harassment for anyone suspected in being involved. Every time one of them runs an amber light, bust him, every time one of them is caught in a pub after hours, bust him, any time one of them is caught in a car without the proper documentation, bust him, any time any of them are found in possession of a pack of dodgy cigarettes, bust him, any time one of them is caught wearing a loud shirt in a residential area during the hours of darkness bust him. Confiscate their passports. Give them continuous grief and hassle 24/7 and purge them out of society altogether. They are not wanted by any right thinking person anywhere.

They have waged war on society. The Govt and society should respond in kind.

Fully with you on this, it's just method and expediency where we part company.

I agree with you on the hardline to me that should be a regular approach in dealing with gangs I was just making reference to the giving them all guns vs. no guns debate above.

marcsignal · 29-01-2013 12:56AM

Jester252 wrote: »

I agree with you on the hardline to me that should be a regular approach in dealing with gangs I was just making reference to the giving them all guns vs. no guns debate above.

Ah right, crossed wires on my part. I was away the weekend so haven't really heard the full story. However I understand the detective approached the car as it was causing an obstruction ? Is that right ?

If that's the case, it would seem the garda had let his guard down. I'd have thought there would have been a procedure in such circumstances following the Gda. Gerry Mc Cabe killing.

Just shows us the risks the Gardai have to take every day

Paddywiggum · 29-01-2013 12:59AM

marcsignal wrote: »

Ah right, crossed wires on my part. I was away the weekend so haven't really heard the full story. However I understand the detective approached the car as it was causing an obstruction ? Is that right ?

If that's the case, it would seem the garda had let his guard down. I'd have thought there would have been a procedure in such circumstances following the Gda. Gerry Mc Cabe killing.

Just shows us the risks the Gardai have to take every day

its a pity you didnt stay away instead of posting rubbish like this.

maybe read up on the incident before commenting on it.

marcsignal · 29-01-2013 01:19AM

Paddywiggum wrote: »

its a pity you didnt stay away instead of posting rubbish like this.

wtf is your problem exactly ??

Det Garda Donohoe, a father of three in his 40s, died as he approached the raiders in a car outside the premises, about seven miles from the border town of Dundalk, Co Louth.

Paddywiggum wrote: »

maybe read up on the incident before commenting on it.

Well, I have as it happens.. and, call me old fashioned, but under the circumstances, I would have thought any officer would err on the side of caution approaching an occupied car outside a post office, where the escort was destined.

Am I missing something ? Or perhaps you have a different take on it ?

bullets · 29-01-2013 01:21AM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I have said it before and I will say it again.....our Gardai need to be armed, they need to be able to protect themselves.

I'm not against the Gardai having armed support units but I'm not comfortable
with the idea of ALL members of the Gardai being armed. Already in Ireland there have been more Garda fatalities in the last few years caused by Garda issued guns than caused by Criminals. which is a very scary fact. If all the Gardai were to be armed Its my opinion that the Suicide Rate increase a lot.

Clare: A Garda 28years old at the time from Clare took his issued handgun home with him and shot himself.

Carrick-on-Shannon: A retired 53 year old Garda took an Uzi from a weapons locker and shot himself.

Harcourt Square Dublin: A 48 year old Garda took his own issued handgun and shot himself.

Enniscorthy: A 48 year old Garda shot himself in the office. He was receiving psychiatric care but somehow still managed to be able to get hold of a gun.

Source link:
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/ombudsman-probes-suicide-of-young-garda-2307264.html

~B

Witcher · 29-01-2013 01:33AM

bullets wrote: »

I'm not against the Gardai having armed support units but I'm not comfortable
with the idea of ALL members of the Gardai being armed. Already in Ireland there have been more Garda fatalities in the last few years caused by Garda issued guns than caused by Criminals. which is a very scary fact. If all the Gardai were to be armed Its my opinion that the Suicide Rate increase a lot.

Clare: A Garda 28years old at the time from Clare took his issued handgun home with him and shot himself.

Carrick-on-Shannon: A retired 53 year old Garda took an Uzi from a weapons locker and shot himself.

Harcourt Square Dublin: A 48 year old Garda took his own issued handgun and shot himself.

Enniscorthy: A 48 year old Garda shot himself in the office. He was receiving psychiatric care but somehow still managed to be able to get hold of a gun.

Source link:
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/ombudsman-probes-suicide-of-young-garda-2307264.html

~B

Says more about the stress of the job than them being a danger to the public if they were armed.

Da Shins Kelly · 29-01-2013 01:36AM

MagicSean wrote: »

Why would you be afraid of him?

Criminals have already armed themselves.

I said they'll arm themselves even better. If criminals think that law enforcers are going to be as well armed as they are, they're going to go about bettering it. It's escalation.

Arming Gardaí means making law enforcement about fear rather than respect and leaves the door open for an abuse of power.

This has been blown out of all proportion anyway. The death of this Garda should not be used as an example for why the Gardaí should be armed.

Paddywiggum · 29-01-2013 01:37AM

marcsignal wrote: »

wtf is your problem exactly ??

Well, I have as it happens.. and, call me old fashioned, but under the circumstances, I would have thought any officer would err on the side of caution approaching an occupied car outside a post office, where the escort was destined.

Am I missing something ? Or perhaps you have a different take on it ?

i think what your are missing is some decorum.

you are insinuating that the brave garda was in some way at fault, or could have done something to prevent this cold calculated murder. that disgusts me. i have no more to say to you on the matter.

Name Changed · 29-01-2013 01:42AM

shezer wrote: »

Lived to fight another day.They left a great witness and I hope to god that he is there to take these bar stewards in.

Paul Williams on frontline now letting us know about what these characters are like.

And what theory had Williams come up with? Who was he saying is responsible?

marcsignal · 29-01-2013 01:47AM

Paddywiggum wrote: »

i think what your are missing is some decorum.

you are insinuating that the brave garda was in some way at fault, or could have done something to prevent this cold calculated murder. that disgusts me. i have no more to say to you on the matter.

You are BANG OUT OF LINE. I was insinuating nothing of the kind.

I was suggesting the possibility that The Garda may have made a mistake. That is a million miles from what you're insinuating, that I meant the poor man somehow deserved it. Wtf are you on ???

If you don't want to discuss it further, I'm just fine with that.

MORON :mad:

K-9 · 29-01-2013 01:53AM

Pippa Middleton's Arse wrote: »

Simple. If you have no respectful of law enforcers you are particularly dangerous. A wife killing their husband in a moment of rage is a million miles from killing a police person doing their job.

No life is worth more than any other. It's all about intent.

That's it, has anybody learned anything from Reservoir Dogs and Heat?

Seriously yep, if you are prepared to shoot armed Gardai while robbing a Credit Union you deserve a life sentence. You can always retreat when you see the Garda presence, they do have options, they don't have to shoot the Guard.

mickydoomsux · 29-01-2013 02:01AM

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

I said they'll arm themselves even better. If criminals think that law enforcers are going to be as well armed as they are, they're going to go about bettering it. It's escalation.

I've heard this nonsense trotted out numerous times but I'm pretty sure there is zero evidence to support it.

Criminals arm themselves better to deal with other criminals, not with the police.

CZ 453 · 29-01-2013 02:01AM

Name Changed wrote: »

And what theory had Williams come up with? Who was he saying is responsible?

http://www.rte.ie/player/ie/show/10106056/

About 5 min 15 secs in.

(North Dublin criminals living in warrenpoint)

Name Changed · 29-01-2013 02:06AM

shezer wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/player/ie/show/10106056/

About 5 min 15 secs in.

(North Dublin criminals living in warrenpoint)

Cheers.

Jester252 · 29-01-2013 02:07AM

mickydoomsux wrote: »

I've heard this nonsense trotted out numerous times but I'm pretty sure there is zero evidence to support it.

Criminals arm themselves better to deal with other criminals, not with the police.

Also most have pretty heavy equipment right now such as AKs

Lightbulb Sun · 29-01-2013 02:18AM

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

No, I'm not the one being shot at, but I am an ordinary civilian. I don't want to be afraid of the Guard walking down the street because I know he or she is carrying a firearm. I also think arming the Gardaí would only mean that criminals are going to arm themselves even better to counter it.

If you are a law abiding citizen you have nothing to be afraid about. Its not like they would pull the gun out at a drop of a hat, only in exceptional circumstances. I disagree with the last point too. Little scumbags will most likely be scared ****-less if the gardai have guns.

ardle1 · 29-01-2013 03:14AM

E money to exit the building,and head on the

marcsignal wrote: »

You are BANG OUT OF LINE. I was insinuating nothing of the kind.

I was suggesting the possibility that The Garda may have made a mistake. That is a million miles from what you're insinuating, that I meant the poor man somehow deserved it. Wtf are you on ???

If you don't want to discuss it further, I'm just fine with that.

MORON :mad:

I can see where your both coming from,, but in all fairness it looks like someone was gonna die that night,,and as the raiders had the upper hand (element of surprise)it was basically to be an execution,,as I said in an earlier post,,,unless they had come down in the last shower,,the raiders new that the money would be escorted to Dundalk,they also new the 2 Gardai where sitting outside waiting for the money to be moved the short distance to Dundalk town centre,, so baring all that in mind,, now apparently the raiders pulled up across the exit in a very suspicious and menacing way, knowing the Gardai would approach,, the local priest who attended the scene was quoted as saying "it looks like he had just got out of the car" ,,in other words he was executed as soon as he got out of his car,,,,,, Rip

goodgolfer64 · 29-01-2013 03:34AM

i think its time to close this

ardle1 · 29-01-2013 03:59AM

goodgolfer64 wrote: »

i think its time to close this

????what,,, the biggest story in Ireland in years! And you think it's time to 'close' your wrong on this one goodgolfer.......... this is HUGE and it's gonna change Irish 'gangland' whoever's involved FOREVER.......

Name Changed · 29-01-2013 10:47AM

I just saw Shatter last night on tv. He really hasn't a clue at all.

HeidiHeidi · 29-01-2013 10:59AM

marcsignal wrote: »

I have to say I don't agree. I feel the guards need to approach this in the same way as they did with the Gilligan gang. 24/7 harassment for anyone suspected of being involved. Every time one of them runs an amber light, bust him, every time one of them is caught in a pub after hours, bust him, any time one of them is caught in a car without the proper documentation, bust him, any time any of them are found in possession of a pack of dodgy cigarettes, bust him, any time one of them is caught wearing a loud shirt in a residential area during the hours of darkness bust him. Confiscate their passports. Give them continuous grief and hassle 24/7 and purge them out of society altogether. They are not wanted by any right thinking person anywhere.

They have waged war on society. The Govt and society should respond in kind.

Fully with you on this, it's just method and expediency where we part company.

I am very reluctant to drag politics into this thread (please delete if this crosses a line, mods), but this I think sums up a lot.

The above is indeed a very successful tactic in making life very difficult for gangs/lowlifes (the General springs to mind). But it's also hugely "expensive" (can't think of a better word) in resources, and very very time consuming.

The Minister has declared that all resources will be / are available to the Gardai that are necessary. I haven't seen the Frontline programme from last night yet, but I presume he repeated that line at least once.

Well, I beg to differ. I don't think for one minute that the Minister would make the money/resources avaiable to carry out this type of action.

Sunnyisland · 29-01-2013 11:04AM

ardle1 wrote: »

????what,,, the biggest story in Ireland in years! And you think it's time to 'close' your wrong on this one good golfer.......... this is HUGE and it's gonna change Irish 'gangland' whoever's involved FOREVER.......

How will it change anything ? Veronica guerin's murder changed nothing in gangland,Det garda Gerry mcCabe murder changed nothing,The only thing that will change here is that for most people this will blow over and something else more terrifying or newsworthy will come by,The only people who will be still effected will be Detective Garda Adrian donohue,s family,friends and comrades, Nothing changes if nothing changes.

Ps I have all the confidence that the people responsible for this will be caught and serverly punished but in the bigger picture it will be everything as normal untill the next time ;-(

tayto lover · 29-01-2013 11:07AM

marcsignal wrote: »

wtf is your problem exactly ??

Well, I have as it happens.. and, call me old fashioned, but under the circumstances, I would have thought any officer would err on the side of caution approaching an occupied car outside a post office, where the escort was destined.

Am I missing something ? Or perhaps you have a different take on it ?

That carpark is used by lots of people.
That night you could have had family members parked there waiting for staff to emerge, customers families waiting for someone to come out, courting couples, there is a football club across the road, etc etc.
Garda Donohoe was not causing anyone to panic by taking out a gun nor was he posing a serious threat to the people who murdered him at that time.
He was just checking out the place as was his job.

tayto lover · 29-01-2013 11:14AM

Name Changed wrote: »

I just saw Shatter last night on tv. He really hasn't a clue at all.

Shatter is insulated from the reality of this type of thing. He lives in a cozy place with armed gardai. If he spent a week living near the border and visited the streets and roads around the likes of Dundalk late at night he might have a different view. I am not saying that Dundalk is worse than any other border town either but it can be very rough at times.

Or if he spent a week living in a remote area of Donegal where the elderly are scared out of their wits by the amount of attacks they are experiencing his views might change also.

Dangerous people exist in other places besides Dublin but the police presence is very poor outside Dublin.

Dymo · 29-01-2013 11:58AM

ardle1 wrote: »

so baring all that in mind,, now apparently the raiders pulled up across the exit in a very suspicious and menacing way, knowing the Gardai would approach,, the local priest who attended the scene was quoted as saying "it looks like he had just got out of the car" ,,in other words he was executed as soon as he got out of his car,,,,,, Rip

Can someone explain why there is a different story appearing each day of what actually happened, firstly the car was across the road the guard approached and then was shot.

Then the car was blocking the entrance with the gunmen inside when approached the guard was shot.

Now it appears the gunmen were behind a wall and only one man in the car and when the car was approached then the others jumped over the wall and shot.

I'm just wondering what was the actual true version of events or are we going to have to wait weeks for that to come out. Were proper protocols followed, was it as cold blooded as reported? It doesn't change the fact that the garda was killed but I just would like to hear the true version of events.

MagicSean · 29-01-2013 12:00PM

marcsignal wrote: »

wtf is your problem exactly ??

Well, I have as it happens.. and, call me old fashioned, but under the circumstances, I would have thought any officer would err on the side of caution approaching an occupied car outside a post office, where the escort was destined.

Am I missing something ? Or perhaps you have a different take on it ?

What reason would he have to draw his gun? Just because there was people in a car outside a credit union?

bullets wrote: »

I'm not against the Gardai having armed support units but I'm not comfortable
with the idea of ALL members of the Gardai being armed. Already in Ireland there have been more Garda fatalities in the last few years caused by Garda issued guns than caused by Criminals. which is a very scary fact. If all the Gardai were to be armed Its my opinion that the Suicide Rate increase a lot.

Clare: A Garda 28years old at the time from Clare took his issued handgun home with him and shot himself.

Carrick-on-Shannon: A retired 53 year old Garda took an Uzi from a weapons locker and shot himself.

Harcourt Square Dublin: A 48 year old Garda took his own issued handgun and shot himself.

Enniscorthy: A 48 year old Garda shot himself in the office. He was receiving psychiatric care but somehow still managed to be able to get hold of a gun.

Source link:
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/ombudsman-probes-suicide-of-young-garda-2307264.html

~B

That's nothing to do with arming the Gardaí. There's plenty of people who have done that with their own firearm too. If someone is determined to take their life they will. Disarming a police force because a member might use a gun on themselves is ridiculous.

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

I said they'll arm themselves even better. If criminals think that law enforcers are going to be as well armed as they are, they're going to go about bettering it. It's escalation.

Arming Gardaí means making law enforcement about fear rather than respect and leaves the door open for an abuse of power.

This has been blown out of all proportion anyway. The death of this Garda should not be used as an example for why the Gardaí should be armed.

I think you've been watching too much tv. That's an issue in the States and Mexico. Most countries with armed police forces don't have an arms race.

marcsignal wrote: »

You are BANG OUT OF LINE. I was insinuating nothing of the kind.

I was suggesting the possibility that The Garda may have made a mistake. That is a million miles from what you're insinuating, that I meant the poor man somehow deserved it. Wtf are you on ???

If you don't want to discuss it further, I'm just fine with that.

MORON :mad:

Right and you backed that up with nothing. You thought a Garda should draw his weapon because he saw something that could be deemed suspicious. I don't think that would be considered a valid reason for a Garda to draw his weapon.

realies wrote: »

How will it change anything ? Veronica guerin's murder changed nothing in gangland,Det garda Gerry mcCabe murder changed nothing,The only thing that will change here is that for most people this will blow over and something else more terrifying or newsworthy will come by,The only people who will be still effected will be Detective Garda Adrian donohue,s family,friends and comrades, Nothing changes if nothing changes.

Ps I have all the confidence that the people responsible for this will be caught and serverly punished but in the bigger picture it will be everything as normal untill the next time ;-(

Veronica Guerins murder brought about the introduction of CAB, a unique and effective department which attacked organised crime.

Garda shot dead during robbery at Louth Credit Union(Mod warning, 1st post.)

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