Instead of arming Gardai

Arpa · 26-01-2013 02:57AM #1

Saw the thread on tough on scumbags was closed, for what reason I don't know, because it was an interesting debate on gun law in Ireland. So, if mods, this sparks something which you deem out of line, so be it...but.....what about this.....

I suggest we need an operation like they have in Brazil or Mexico. Have a tactical armed unit who pro-actively infiltrate, disrupt and eradicate all criminal gangs who they suspect to have firepower.

Not the regular Gardai but a more militarised force. We need to cut the b*stards down before they grow any bigger. This, accompanied with tighter border controls preventing smuggled weapons and drugs will have a significant effect. We are an island after all, the only method of smuggling weapons into this land is by air or sea. It should be attainable.

Over time the supply of illegal weapons will be reduced due to the difficulty over importing them.

A unit with this power will have it's drawbacks. Obviously in the beginning there will be collateral damage and the court cases will run for years, but it is favourable I believe to letting this grow any further than it has done so already.

Now I know we don't have a problem quite as severe as that in the slums of Brazil/Mexico but why wait till then? There is a unit in Brazil called BOPE who do exactly this. They are trained rigorously to engage drug gangs and suspected criminals with weapons. They do function primarily in the favellas of Rio which is a far sight different to our country's streets, but if we use an urban military force to put an end to it now then we can reap the rewards for future generations. Also what chance does Deco in Limerick, with his little pistol stand against a trained unit like this. If he's willing to carry a weapon and use it, then he is willing to die. Live by the sword, die by the sword and all that.

We already have the talent there in the guise of the Rangers, I just think it's time to start using it. And yes for a while it may be intimidating to see black clad tactical teams in our urban areas but once crime has been significantly reduced they could be recinded and put on standby leaving the streets safer for our Gardai to patrol.

Giving the Gardai guns is not the option as it prolongs it - Guards get guns - Criminals get bigger guns and then all is fair in war as both sides will see it. A short burst of agressive action will negate this and allow us to continue as a gun free society.

darced · 26-01-2013 03:03AM

This post has been deleted.

AlmightyCushion · 26-01-2013 03:06AM

So, you're saying we should create the ERU?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garda_Emergency_Response_Unit

BillyMitchel · 26-01-2013 03:06AM

Way to long to read at 2am bro any chance of one of them tdlr thingies??

0066ad · 26-01-2013 03:06AM

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I thought it was the imbd to a new Scorsese movie

JayEnnis · 26-01-2013 03:07AM

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Ah yes, here we have the uninformed boards commentator in it's natural habitat.

The Gardai need to be armed. The criminals in this country have a monopoly on firearms and it's gotten to the stage where it's quite ridiculous. Although the above post is a tad far fetched, we should be proactive instead of reactive in the case of gang violence. A deterrent is better than a solution.

Hootanany · 26-01-2013 03:08AM

Arpa wrote: »

Saw the thread on tough on scumbags was closed, for what reason I don't know, because it was an interesting debate on gun law in Ireland. So, if mods, this sparks something which you deem out of line, so be it...but.....what about this.....

I suggest we need an operation like they have in Brazil or Mexico. Have a tactical armed unit who pro-actively infiltrate, disrupt and eradicate all criminal gangs who they suspect to have firepower.

Not the regular Gardai but a more militarised force. We need to cut the b*stards down before they grow any bigger. This, accompanied with tighter border controls preventing smuggled weapons and drugs will have a significant effect. We are an island after all, the only method of smuggling weapons into this land is by air or sea. It should be attainable.

Over time the supply of illegal weapons will be reduced due to the difficulty over importing them.

A unit with this power will have it's drawbacks. Obviously in the beginning there will be collateral damage and the court cases will run for years, but it is favourable I believe to letting this grow any further than it has done so already.

Now I know we don't have a problem quite as severe as that in the slums of Brazil/Mexico but why wait till then? There is a unit in Brazil called BOPE who do exactly this. They are trained rigorously to engage drug gangs and suspected criminals with weapons. They do function primarily in the favellas of Rio which is a far sight different to our country's streets, but if we use an urban military force to put an end to it now then we can reap the rewards for future generations. Also what chance does Deco in Limerick, with his little pistol stand against a trained unit like this. If he's willing to carry a weapon and use it, then he is willing to die. Live by the sword, die by the sword and all that.

We already have the talent there in the guise of the Rangers, I just think it's time to start using it. And yes for a while it may be intimidating to see black clad tactical teams in our urban areas but once crime has been significantly reduced they could be recinded and put on standby leaving the streets safer for our Gardai to patrol.

Giving the Gardai guns is not the option as it prolongs it - Guards get guns - Criminals get bigger guns and then all is fair in war as both sides will see it. A short burst of agressive action will negate this and allow us to continue as a gun free society.

One word

Tasers

JayEnnis · 26-01-2013 03:10AM

Hootanany wrote: »

One word

Tasers

Because a taser is a realistic weapon against a firearm :rolleyes: I wonder where you people get these ideas from. For a start the range is limited and what if multiple targets are present?

Hootanany · 26-01-2013 03:12AM

JayEnnis wrote: »

Because a taser is a realistic weapon against a firearm :rolleyes: I wonder where you people get these ideas from. For a start the range is limited and what if multiple targets are present?

2 tasers

Clutchkick · 26-01-2013 03:14AM

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

So, you're saying we should create the ERU?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garda_Emergency_Response_Unit

Well **** you anyway, I was just about to be all smug and clever and say that! haha

seven_eleven · 26-01-2013 03:15AM

Has the ERU even been active as of late? I havent seen or heard of them in....forever.

I see the armed Regional Support Unit around quite a bit though. They have pretty distinct looking cars.

ITS_A_BADGER · 26-01-2013 03:16AM

I can see the adverts now.

The rangers fcuk yeah!, coming to save the motherfcuking day yea !

Arpa · 26-01-2013 03:16AM

Yeah was probably a bit long for 2am, sorry. Also was probably a bit far fetched in terms of BOPE etc, but a pro-active armed unit would definitely help. Not the ERU because they are reactive. They essentially show up at hostage situations were firearms are involved. What about just storming a known criminal/drug gang location and disrupting it?

I'm not au fait with legislation but surely some power could be given to a unit like this if it means saving lives.

Our regular Gardai should not be armed. I am proud to be in a society where our police force are keepers of the peace and not an intimditing entity.

But peace has gone with the gang violence, drugs, robberies. So send out a unit to clean it up and let the Guards continue as they are.

Hootanany · 26-01-2013 03:17AM

Overtime stopped just let out for PR

It wasn't me! · 26-01-2013 03:21AM

JayEnnis wrote: »

A deterrent is better than a solution.

I'm not sure you understand what those two words mean...

gammygils · 26-01-2013 03:22AM

Instead of arming Gardai we just leg it!!!

Unregistered. · 26-01-2013 03:23AM

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

So, you're saying we should create the ERU?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garda_Emergency_Response_Unit

What the OP described is NOT what the ERU do!

JayEnnis · 26-01-2013 03:24AM

It wasn't me! wrote: »

I'm not sure you understand what those two words mean...

I'm quite aware of what those words mean, a solution to a problem is not needed if the problem doesn't exist in the first place.

starviewadams · 26-01-2013 03:25AM

Garda numbers and resources have been cut to bits and will be cut further and further,they are doing well to be able to be reactive to crime at this stage,never mind proactive.

Best way to tackle the drugs problem is by legalising certain things to some degree,but that requires vision and a strong political will that never exist in this country,also requires the electorate to not be sheep,which again will never happen in this country.

It wasn't me! · 26-01-2013 03:28AM

JayEnnis wrote: »

I'm quite aware of what those words mean, a solution to a problem is not needed if the problem doesn't exist in the first place.

A deterrent is a disincentive. It will not stop the problem. It may reduce incidences, depending on effectiveness. The death penalty is a deterrent to committing a capital offence, just not an effective one. What you're looking for is a prophylaxis, which is some sort of magical silver bullet that stops all this in its tracks.

JayEnnis · 26-01-2013 03:33AM

It wasn't me! wrote: »

A deterrent is a disincentive. It will not stop the problem. It may reduce incidences, depending on effectiveness. The death penalty is a deterrent to committing a capital offence, just not an effective one. What you're looking for is a prophylaxis, which is some sort of magical silver bullet that stops all this in its tracks.

You're being pedantic, of course we aren't going to live in a perfect country with no crime whatsoever but something has to be done. As it stands now the criminal elements in this country can do whatever they please with no repercussions the majority of the time.

AlmightyCushion · 26-01-2013 03:38AM

Unregistered. wrote: »

What the OP described is NOT what the ERU do!

They're a less mental version of what he described.

ColeTrain · 26-01-2013 03:46AM

Arpa wrote: »

accompanied with tighter border controls preventing smuggled weapons and drugs will have a significant effect. We are an island after all, the only method of smuggling weapons into this land is by air or sea. It should be attainable.

The government simply do not have the resources to patrol what's smuggled into the country.

Arpa wrote: »

There is a unit in Brazil called BOPE who do exactly this. They are trained rigorously to engage drug gangs and suspected criminals with weapons. They do function primarily in the favellas of Rio which is a far sight different to our country's streets, but if we use an urban military force to put an end to it now then we can reap the rewards for future generations. Also what chance does Deco in Limerick, with his little pistol stand against a trained unit like this. If he's willing to carry a weapon and use it, then he is willing to die. Live by the sword, die by the sword and all that.

The slums in Rio don't compare to Limerick or Dublin. Maybe elite tactical squads will be needed when we see shootouts like the one in Heat occur on a regular basis but until then ERU will do.

68 lost souls · 26-01-2013 03:50AM

It reminds me of this.

Great TV show

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIVn4tnFTfY

tdv123 · 26-01-2013 03:53AM

Arpa wrote: »

Saw the thread on tough on scumbags was closed, for what reason I don't know, because it was an interesting debate on gun law in Ireland. So, if mods, this sparks something which you deem out of line, so be it...but.....what about this.....

I suggest we need an operation like they have in Brazil or Mexico. Have a tactical armed unit who pro-actively infiltrate, disrupt and eradicate all criminal gangs who they suspect to have firepower.

Not the regular Gardai but a more militarised force. We need to cut the b*stards down before they grow any bigger. This, accompanied with tighter border controls preventing smuggled weapons and drugs will have a significant effect. We are an island after all, the only method of smuggling weapons into this land is by air or sea. It should be attainable.

Over time the supply of illegal weapons will be reduced due to the difficulty over importing them.

A unit with this power will have it's drawbacks. Obviously in the beginning there will be collateral damage and the court cases will run for years, but it is favourable I believe to letting this grow any further than it has done so already.

Now I know we don't have a problem quite as severe as that in the slums of Brazil/Mexico but why wait till then? There is a unit in Brazil called BOPE who do exactly this. They are trained rigorously to engage drug gangs and suspected criminals with weapons. They do function primarily in the favellas of Rio which is a far sight different to our country's streets, but if we use an urban military force to put an end to it now then we can reap the rewards for future generations. Also what chance does Deco in Limerick, with his little pistol stand against a trained unit like this. If he's willing to carry a weapon and use it, then he is willing to die. Live by the sword, die by the sword and all that.

We already have the talent there in the guise of the Rangers, I just think it's time to start using it. And yes for a while it may be intimidating to see black clad tactical teams in our urban areas but once crime has been significantly reduced they could be recinded and put on standby leaving the streets safer for our Gardai to patrol.

Giving the Gardai guns is not the option as it prolongs it - Guards get guns - Criminals get bigger guns and then all is fair in war as both sides will see it. A short burst of agressive action will negate this and allow us to continue as a gun free society.

Yes, because that system has worked perfectly in Mexico. Hardly any crime in that country at all.

Arpa · 26-01-2013 03:54AM

ColeTrain wrote: »

The slums in Rio don't compare to Limerick or Dublin. Maybe elite tactical squads will be needed when we see shootouts like the one in Heat occur on a regular basis but until then ERU will do.

Okay, so we will wait till they compare with the slums? I'm not talking Hollywood here. I'm suggesting a dedicated force controlled by legislation to move in with force and cut off the supply.
Until the law has the upper hand nothing will do. Why wait any longer?

end of the road · 26-01-2013 03:58AM

Arpa wrote: »

I suggest we need an operation like they have in Brazil or Mexico. Have a tactical armed unit who pro-actively infiltrate, disrupt and eradicate all criminal gangs who they suspect to have firepower.

we have one, its called the ERU, and you fail to realise that in both Brazil and Mexico once one gang is gone another pops up straight away

Arpa wrote: »

We need to cut the b*stards down before they grow any bigger.

wouldn't achieve anything, once one goes another will pop up

Arpa wrote: »

This, accompanied with tighter border controls preventing smuggled weapons and drugs will have a significant effect.

yeah, it will, shur we only have miles of coastline which such things can get in, unless your going to get everyone to stand side by side at the edge of every cliff and beach? even then it wouldn't be enough people

Arpa wrote: »

We are an island after all, the only method of smuggling weapons into this land is by air or sea. It should be attainable.

exactly, were an island, if they want to get weapons in they will

Arpa wrote: »

Over time the supply of illegal weapons will be reduced due to the difficulty over importing them.

rubbish

Arpa wrote: »

A unit with this power will have it's drawbacks.

yeah, the cost for no benefit

Arpa wrote: »

Obviously in the beginning there will be collateral damage and the court cases will run for years

great, shur its only a bit of collateral damage, shur the court cases will run for years and cost 10 times the amount for the unit itself, never mind the fact were bankrupt

Arpa wrote: »

but it is favourable I believe to letting this grow any further than it has done so already.

it won't, not at this stage, maybe if we had them at the inception of our police force it would have worked once the problem started, however if you want this unit badly enough you and you alone fund it.

Arpa wrote: »

Now I know we don't have a problem quite as severe as that in the slums of Brazil/Mexico

nothing near it, its all media hype

Arpa wrote: »

but why wait till then?

wait till when? the likely hood of us ending up like the slums in these places is very slim

Arpa wrote: »

There is a unit in Brazil called BOPE who do exactly this. They are trained rigorously to engage drug gangs and suspected criminals with weapons.

just like the ERU

Arpa wrote: »

They do function primarily in the favellas of Rio which is a far sight different to our country's streets, but if we use an urban military force to put an end to it now then we can reap the rewards for future generations.

what rewards? massive amounts of money being spent on these armed units your proposing yet the weapons are still getting in?

Arpa wrote: »

Also what chance does Deco in Limerick, with his little pistol stand against a trained unit like this. If he's willing to carry a weapon and use it, then he is willing to die. Live by the sword, die by the sword and all that.

maybe decko in limerick will go for grenades instead?

Arpa wrote: »

once crime has been significantly reduced

it won't

Arpa wrote: »

A short burst of agressive action will negate this and allow us to continue as a gun free society.

no, it won't, absolute rubbish, all it will do is get rid of one for a week and then when their busy stopping one somewhere else another gang will have popped up in the place the unit was before

JayEnnis · 26-01-2013 03:58AM

tdv123 wrote: »

Yes, because that system has worked perfectly in Mexico. Hardly any crime in that country at all.

There's never going to be an end to drug violence until recreational drugs are legalised.

ColeTrain · 26-01-2013 04:03AM

Arpa wrote: »

Okay, so we will wait till they compare with the slums? I'm not talking Hollywood here. I'm suggesting a dedicated force controlled by legislation to move in with force and cut off the supply.
Until the law has the upper hand nothing will do. Why wait any longer?

I don't get what you want this dedicated force to do exactly?

At the moment Gardai gather evidence and try to arrest people. Do you want them kicking down doors and shooting people because they suspect they have a weapon or are in the drugs game?

spoonfed · 26-01-2013 04:04AM

tdv123 wrote: »

Yes, because that system has worked perfectly in Mexico. Hardly any crime in that country at all.

Just what this cuntry needs is chainsaw beheadings! :rolleyes:

tdv123 · 26-01-2013 04:05AM

JayEnnis wrote: »

There's never going to be an end to drug violence until recreational drugs are legalised.

Unless you take "bathsalts" & start eating homeless people's faces.

Instead of arming Gardai

Comments