Homeopathy is 'rubbish', says UK chief medical officer

JazzyJ · 25-01-2013 04:09PM

OCorcrainn wrote: »

Homeopathy medicine has worked for the Chinese for thousands of years, so that fact alone would contradict this fellow.

Yes, and because aliens invented it 63,983,123 years ago also proves that fact.

Definitely.

IM0 · 25-01-2013 04:09PM

ah jesus there was a massive thread on this **** a few months ago, and now its off again

in 3, 2..

just delete this, dont merge it with the other one [and so giving it life]

dead horses and all that..

25-01-2013 04:09PM

OCorcrainn wrote: »

Homeopathy medicine has worked for the Chinese for thousands of years, so that fact alone would contradict this fellow.

Example of Poe's law. Assuming you're being serious, you're totally wrong, Homeopathy was invented in 1796 by a German

partyatmygaff · 25-01-2013 04:12PM

OCorcrainn wrote: »

Homeopathy medicine has worked for the Chinese for thousands of years, so that fact alone would contradict this fellow.

Traditional Chinese Medicine has little to nothing to do with homeopathy (Which is relatively recent European form of "therapy").

Homeopathic remedies are not "medicines", they're nothing more than bottles water dressed up as medicines.

Duggy747 · 25-01-2013 04:13PM

OCorcrainn wrote: »

Homeopathy medicine has worked for the Chinese for thousands of years, so that fact alone would contradict this fellow.

Except it's not fact, is it?

Zillah · 25-01-2013 04:14PM

ScumLord wrote: »

I have no problem with these treatments or other placebo treatments in general. If a person thinks the placebo treatment is working for them and relieving symptoms then that's all that matters to that individual. A placebo treatment like this is much cheaper and safer than using the fullness of modern medical treatments available today which may end up finding absolutely nothing.

I think the whole process of having someone care for you makes up the bulk of reasons why it works. Human contact and bonding is what people often crave.

Real medicine benefits from the placebo effect as well as its actual medical effect. Homeopath only gets the placebo. The placebo effect is often a false resolution and very temporary. They think they're better briefly but keep having to go back because, shockingly enough, drinking magic water doesn't cure real illness.

Honestly I think doctors should be trained to be more theatrical to maximise the placebo effect. Go into detail about what is in the medication and why it works and use fancy sciency words.

runawaybishop · 25-01-2013 04:18PM

fangee wrote: »

What a shame that so many people spend so much money on what is just water.

It really is criminal. Freaking buying snake oil in the 21st century. Who would have thunk it ?

The same people who buy this junk will laugh at witch doctors and shamans.

If they were actually using snake oil that would be something. Snake oil is high in omega 3 \:D/

endacl · 25-01-2013 04:20PM

enda1 wrote: »

Ironically the first person so high up with a pair of balls to stand up to this criminal nonsense is a woman.

Give the people what they want I suppose....

If there are enough dumb people demanding dumb stuff, then dumb stuff will be provided. Perhaps its an example of the nanny state simply giving in to the child's ridiculous demands. Pop them in front of the telly homeopath for a few hours. I know its not good for them, but I'm at my wits end....'

endacl · 25-01-2013 04:25PM

runawaybishop wrote: »

If they were actually using snake oil that would be something. Snake oil is high in omega 3 \:D/

And who's ever seen a squeaky snake? This sh1t works!

Akrasia · 25-01-2013 04:32PM

OCorcrainn wrote: »

Homeopathy medicine has worked for the Chinese for thousands of years, so that fact alone would contradict this fellow.

That's funny cause Homeopathy was invented by a german quack named Samuel Hahnemann only about 200 years ago

edit: sorry, i was well beaten to the race on this :P

Capt'n Midnight · 25-01-2013 04:34PM

ScumLord wrote: »

I have no problem with these treatments or other placebo treatments in general. If a person thinks the placebo treatment is working for them and relieving symptoms then that's all that matters to that individual. A placebo treatment like this is much cheaper and safer than using the fullness of modern medical treatments available today which may end up finding absolutely nothing.

fine in theory

but when people are dying because they choose alternative medicine over stuff that actually works then it's more than just fraud

Look at Steve Jobs

endacl · 25-01-2013 04:35PM

I think it may be time for this one again, just in case anybody missed it the last few times...

endacl · 25-01-2013 04:39PM

OCorcrainn wrote: »

Homeopathy medicine has worked for the Chinese for thousands of years, so that fact alone would contradict this fellow.

Not really. Chinese traditional medicine (which could be criticized on a whole other level, but that's fodder for another thread) actually contains 'active ingredients'. Even if those ingredients essentially to nothing but decimate wildlife populations. What distinguishes homeopathy is the fact that the 'active ingredient' in the solution has been reduced to a point such that it isn't in fact present at all.

My name is URL · 25-01-2013 04:39PM

Akrasia wrote: »

That's funny cause Homeopathy was invented by a german quack named Samuel Hahnemann only about 200 years ago

Bit harsh to call him a quack, when; at the time bloodletting and trephination etc were some the most common and accepted medical practices, which is what he was opposed to.

endacl · 25-01-2013 04:41PM

My name is URL wrote: »

Bit harsh to call him a quack, when; at the time bloodletting and trephination etc were some the most common and accepted medical practices, which is what he was opposed to.

Indeed. He did the best he could with the knowledge available to him at the time. It was an imaginative leap, if in a silly direction.

Knowledge has expanded since then. 'Pity the fool who follows the fool'.

HHobo · 25-01-2013 04:45PM

I sure either Randoi or someone else has already told this joke but on the off chance:

Did you hear about the guy who overdosed on his homeopathy remedy?

He forgot to take his pills!

Zillah · 25-01-2013 04:52PM

OCorcrainn wrote: »

Homeopathy medicine has worked for the Chinese for thousands of years, so that fact alone would contradict this fellow.

This is exactly the sort of fact-checking that I would expect from a homeopathy advocate.

OCorcrainn · 25-01-2013 05:44PM

I forget that many people have no sense of humour, or a sarcasm detector.

25-01-2013 05:58PM

OCorcrainn wrote: »

I forget that many people have no sense of humour, or a sarcasm detector.

Sadly, there have been too many serious posts of exactly that level in previous threads. Poe's law. Relieved to hear you weren't serious though

Bad Santa · 25-01-2013 06:04PM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Look at Steve Jobs

Is the tomb open to the public?

ScumLord · 25-01-2013 06:06PM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

fine in theory

but when people are dying because they choose alternative medicine over stuff that actually works then it's more than just fraud

Look at Steve Jobs

I would say in many cases the people who use these forms of therapy have nothing wrong with them though. I think many go to doctors, the doctors tell them they're fine outside of a bit of stress so they go to the quacks who go along with the idea there is something wrong with them. As long as there is nothing wrong it's no harm no foul, I'd treat the therapy as a form of hug. Feels good but ultimately useless.

If there is something actually seriously wrong the quack therapy won't work and if the person if foolish enough to keep doing what doesn't work then they've no one to blame but themselves.

endacl · 25-01-2013 06:34PM

ScumLord wrote: »

If there is something actually seriously wrong the quack therapy won't work and if the person if foolish enough to keep doing what doesn't work then they've no one to blame but themselves.

Abolutely. If only there wasn't public money being spent on this tripe (admittedly not in this jurisdiction), and some insurance companies happy to stump up to cover it. The foolishness of some empties the pockets of others.

ScumLord · 25-01-2013 06:42PM

endacl wrote: »

Abolutely. If only there wasn't public money being spent on this tripe (admittedly not in this jurisdiction), and some insurance companies happy to stump up to cover it. The foolishness of some empties the pockets of others.

I'm sure the insurance companies are making a profit out of it or they wouldn't be doing it. A few homoeopathic treatments are going to be a hell of a lot cheaper than a few rounds of chemo.

My name is URL · 25-01-2013 07:02PM

ScumLord wrote: »

If there is something actually seriously wrong the quack therapy won't work and if the person if foolish enough to keep doing what doesn't work then they've no one to blame but themselves.

In the UK, due to some loophole in the Medicines Act, certain preparations (if used 'traditionally') are allowed to make claims of efficacy on the packaging even in the absence of evidence that would be required if conventional medicines were to do the same. It makes a mockery of science based medicine.

There's controversy over Prince Charles' involvement with companies who sell alternative medicines. He himself is accused of lobbying for the use of homeopathic medicines on the NHS.

http://www.dcscience.net/?p=89

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tomchivers/100050334/prince-of-wales-endorsed-company-offers-homeopathic-vaccines-for-polio-this-could-cost-lives/

endacl · 25-01-2013 07:05PM

ScumLord wrote: »

I'm sure the insurance companies are making a profit out of it or they wouldn't be doing it. A few homoeopathic treatments are going to be a hell of a lot cheaper than a few rounds of chemo.

True. The point is though, that money comes from policy premiums. It's money being spent on nonsense that could be spent elsewhere.

Rezident · 25-01-2013 07:08PM

Michael Brooks while generally critical of homeopathy, in his book "13 things that don't make sense" suggests that one possible answer may lie in the structure of water.

Few years since I've read it so I can't remember all the specifics precisely but the gist was: structure is important as carbon in one structure is mere graphite but in another structure the same element (carbon) is diamond. Water is unusual in that it exists in many different structures anywhere from two molecules up to a staggering (approximately, I can't remember exactly what it was) 143 molecules (he even had a name for this something-something-hedron).

The theory was that if the original element could change the structure of the water, even after it was effectively diluted out of it, it could potentially have changed the properties of the water. Well, I thought it was interesting. Sometimes there's more to these things than meets the eye, water certainly does have some strange properties but we tend to take it for granted.

Custardpi · 25-01-2013 07:16PM

I've heard that at least one Irish insurance provider (VHI) provides cover for homeopathy under at least some of its' plans, not sure if its true though, can anyone confirm? Absolute disgrace if so.

ScumLord · 25-01-2013 07:22PM

endacl wrote: »

True. The point is though, that money comes from policy premiums. It's money being spent on nonsense that could be spent elsewhere.

I have no argument there. They should only be offering treatment that's proven to work on the majority of people. However you were on a waiting list it would be a bonus if the people in front of you kept dropping out to try other treatments. Darwin in operation.

partyatmygaff · 25-01-2013 07:24PM

Rezident wrote: »

Michael Brooks while generally critical of homeopathy, in his book "13 things that don't make sense" suggests that one possible answer may lie in the structure of water.

Few years since I've read it so I can't remember all the specifics precisely but the gist was: structure is important as carbon in one structure is mere graphite but in another structure the same element (carbon) is diamond. Water is unusual in that it exists in many different structures anywhere from two molecules up to a staggering (approximately, I can't remember exactly what it was) 143 molecules (he even had a name for this something-something-hedron).

The theory was that if the original element could change the structure of the water, even after it was effectively diluted out of it, it could potentially have changed the properties of the water. Well, I thought it was interesting. Sometimes there's more to these things than meets the eye, water certainly does have some strange properties but we tend to take it for granted.

That's not likely considering the huge variety of substances those water molecules have solvated since they were created. Then there's the presence of high concentrations of sugar which will form hydrogen bonds both with itself and with water molecules. That will have a far greater effect than the remnant effects of any previous solutes. That and the fact that heat changes and a great list of other factors could interfere with the hydrogen bonding and structure of the molecules makes the whole notion completely ridiculous.

Your body consists of mostly water. It consists of water molecules that have almost certainly been in contact with every single naturally occurring and synthetic compound on the planet. Considering we all know that water doesn't cure a whole lot more than dehydration, we can safely say that homeopathy is as good as plain water as far as therapy is considered.

wonderfulname · 25-01-2013 07:40PM

Custardpi wrote: »

I've heard that at least one Irish insurance provider (VHI) provides cover for homeopathy under at least some of its' plans, not sure if its true though, can anyone confirm? Absolute disgrace if so.

Were I an insurer I would definitely cover sugar pills in addition to real medicines, I'm sure it would be great for the aul profit margins.

Homeopathy is 'rubbish', says UK chief medical officer

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