If there was a referendum tomorrow - how would you vote?

goochtrooper69 · 22-01-2013 05:34PM

We'd be bankrupt if we took them back.

robinph · 22-01-2013 05:34PM

Gunmonkey wrote: »

Plus the massive cost of switching everything in the north to €'s, plus issuing 1.5 million passports and PSRI numbers, and would public service workers just be transferred over or would England have to sack em all and we rehire them? Can we, with the Croke Park in effect? Or would we see doctors/nurses/Gardai/firefighters spread even further apart in our country.

Passports wouldn't be an issue as people already have them and a similar arrangement to what is in place at the moment would have to continue where they can have dual nationality. PRSI and the UK NI systems are already linked so credits can already be transferred. People would be pissed at having to pay for their health services as on top of the PRSI payments though.

jimmycrackcorm · 22-01-2013 05:36PM

Polls in AH usually reflect the opposite of real life.

Crooked Jack · 22-01-2013 05:36PM

abbeyrock wrote: »

Vote no to a united Ireland, all that will happen is the loyalists will start trouble similar to the IRA did in London in the 80's down the south. Plus why do the IRA want a united Ireland when it would put them out of business, who else is going to supply heroin and protection racketeering.

What's it like being able to just say whatever you want without any hang ups about facts, evidence, reality etc...
It must be very liberating. Like the way you just roll your eyes and let very old people say whatever racist/right wing guff they want because they're old.

Chips Lovell · 22-01-2013 05:38PM

I think a short referendum campaign would increase the odds of a yes vote. The longer the pros and cons get discussed, the likelier it is that people won't decide on a kneejerk basis and consider the economic and political implications of incorporating Northern Ireland into Ireland.

Seaneh · 22-01-2013 05:43PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

63% voting no? Interesting.

Boards.ie polls are generally no reflection of reality.

If they were, David Norris would have won the presidential election with a landslide, but we all know that didn't happen.

Thank f*ck.

Agricola · 22-01-2013 05:45PM

At some stage in the future, yes, but not now. The time isnt right.

I think there would have to be a long number of years of sustained prosperity on both sides of the border, a lot more work would need to be done in the North to bring both groups together (segregation of communities with walls, separate schooling arrangements would need to be much less prevalent) and also memories of the violence of the last few decades would have to be distant memories. You would need a generation of young people up there who are as disinterested in politics as most young people are in all comfortable, developed democracies.

Until all of this comes to pass, it will never happen.

Hazys · 22-01-2013 05:48PM

I not only vote for NI to become part of Ireland, but i also vote for England, Scotland and Wales to become part of Ireland.

One day the people of the UK are minding their own business then BAM!! all the pictures of the Queen over people's TVs are suddenly switched to pictures of the High King of Ireland Enda Kenny...How ya like that UK? Didn't see that coming did ye? tables are turned

awec · 22-01-2013 05:52PM

I'd vote no. Don't fancy having to pay for the north, I'm already paying out enough as it is to help fund 26 counties never mind 32.

It's a lose-lose situation, people down here get worse off and people in the north get worse off.

Iwasfrozen · 22-01-2013 05:54PM

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

I think a short referendum campaign would increase the odds of a yes vote. The longer the pros and cons get discussed, the likelier it is that people won't decide on a kneejerk basis and consider the economic and political implications of incorporating Northern Ireland into Ireland.

Surely a longer more informed debate is likely to increase the odds of a no vote. Northern Ireland is subsidised to the tune of £7 billion every year. Source. Irish people aren't stupid when the details of the Bernett formula are brought to light it will become clear that we can't afford them. A kneejerk poll is only likely to bring out votes for sentimentality and unrealistic nationalism.

end of the road · 22-01-2013 05:55PM

ah the usual "we can't afford it" "to expensive" "echanomics" bs, just an excuse from anti irish cowards to get out of saying they just don't want it because they can't be bothered to try and get the people up there on side to finally unite the country, we must have a united ireland no matter how long it takes, to many died for it and theirs been to much distruction to let it slip away, theirs an opportunity to try do it peacefully now so we must go ahead and eventually make the conditions which might cause those living up there to want to join the rest of ireland. i voted yes, and i'l vote yes always

Iwasfrozen · 22-01-2013 05:56PM

Seaneh wrote: »

Boards.ie polls are generally no reflection of reality.

If they were, David Norris would have won the presidential election with a landslide, but we all know that didn't happen.

Thank f*ck.

Boards isn't realistic of the population as a whole but it is representative of the young urban college educated mostly male class who are the policy makers of the future.

end of the road wrote: »

ah the usual "we can't afford it" "to expensive" "echanomics" bs, just an excuse from anti irish cowards to get out of saying they just don't want it because they can't be bothered to try and get the people up there on side to finally unite the country, we must have a united ireland no matter how long it takes, to many died for it and theirs been to much distruction to let it slip away, theirs an opportunity to try do it peacefully now so we must go ahead and eventually make the conditions which might cause those living up there to want to join the rest of ireland. i voted yes, and i'l vote yes always

Why does not wanting a United Ireland make one anti Irish? You should capitalise Ireland, very unpatriotic and anti Irish of you not to. Besides someone dying for something doesn't make them right.

robinph · 22-01-2013 05:58PM

end of the road wrote: »

ah the usual "we can't afford it" "to expensive" "echanomics" bs, just an excuse from anti irish cowards to get out of saying they just don't want it because they can't be bothered to try and get the people up there on side to finally unite the country, we must have a united ireland no matter how long it takes, to many died for it and theirs been to much distruction to let it slip away, theirs an opportunity to try do it peacefully now so we must go ahead and eventually make the conditions which might cause those living up there to want to join the rest of ireland. i voted yes, and i'l vote yes always

It must happen because you want it to is not a good enough reason.

Just because someone died does not count as a valid reason for doing it either.

gurramok · 22-01-2013 06:05PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Surely a longer more informed debate is likely to increase the odds of a no vote. Northern Ireland is subsidised to the tune of £7 billion every year. Source. Irish people aren't stupid when the details of the Bernett formula are brought to light it will become clear that we can't afford them. A kneejerk poll is only likely to bring out votes for sentimentality and unrealistic nationalism.

£7 billion, £10 billion figures being mentioned. Anyone got an official link to the actual subsidy?

end of the road · 22-01-2013 06:08PM

StudentDad wrote: »

If we are going to do stupid things we may as well rejoin the UK.

won't happen, the UK don't want us, the only people who would vote for to rejoin the UK are those who voted "yes for jobs" that didn't come and never will.

StudentDad wrote: »

the rest of us just trying to get on with life

oh yeah, the rest of those who voted "yes for jobs" ah yes, how did that work out? it didn't

StudentDad wrote: »

Get on with life and stop rabbiting on about stupid lines on a map.

no we won't, who do you think you are, those lines are not stupid, they represent the line between the republic and the occupied part of our country so put up with it, if you have a problem with people wanting a united ireland then pack up and leave or put up with it.

seamus · 22-01-2013 06:08PM

end of the road wrote: »

we must have a united ireland no matter how long it takes

Why?

There has never been a single, united, democratic Irish state with jurisdiction over the whole island. Why must we have one?

Crooked Jack · 22-01-2013 06:09PM

gurramok wrote: »

£7 billion, £10 billion figures being mentioned. Anyone got an official link to the actual subsidy?

If they could also include the amount the north raises in taxes every year as well as the value of its resources and businesses etc... so we could get a true picture of its financial state.
There is more to the economic argument than the block grant

Reoil · 22-01-2013 06:09PM

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Which means the outcomes don't have much value.

They do in a referendum.

Crooked Jack · 22-01-2013 06:10PM

seamus wrote: »

Why?

There has never been a single, united, democratic Irish state with jurisdiction over the whole island. Why must we have one?

well nothing else has worked. Perhaps it's time to try a single, united, democratic Irish state with jurisdiction over the whole island.

end of the road · 22-01-2013 06:11PM

goochtrooper69 wrote: »

We'd be bankrupt if we took them back.

rubbish

gurramok · 22-01-2013 06:13PM

seamus wrote: »

Why?

There has never been a single, united, democratic Irish state with jurisdiction over the whole island. Why must we have one?

Thats not fair Seamus and you know it. The country(Ireland) was ruled by another foreign state for the most part either from Dublin(pre 1801) or London with the foreign ruler having the say.

The country was united under that foreign ruler for many centuries.

Iwasfrozen · 22-01-2013 06:14PM

Crooked Jack wrote: »

well nothing else has worked. Perhaps it's time to try a single, united, democratic Irish state with jurisdiction over the whole island.

I disagree, Ireland is doing fine. Northern Ireland is a mess but that's not our problem.

gurramok · 22-01-2013 06:16PM

abbeyrock wrote: »

Vote no to a united Ireland, all that will happen is the loyalists will start trouble similar to the IRA did in London in the 80's down the south.

So you let your democratic view be overturned by the prospect of terror, a terrorists dream come true!

Chips Lovell · 22-01-2013 06:19PM

gurramok wrote: »

£7 billion, £10 billion figures being mentioned. Anyone got an official link to the actual subsidy?

Crooked Jack wrote: »

If they could also include the amount the north raises in taxes every year as well as the value of its resources and businesses etc... so we could get a true picture of its financial state.
There is more to the economic argument than the block grant

According to this:

Relative to its population, Northern Ireland gains the most from the unequal regional composition of the UK public finances, with a net balance of spending over receipts of more than £4,000 per person. This is followed by Wales, the North East and Scotland.

They put the balance of expenditure over income at over £7 billion in 2007.

seamus · 22-01-2013 06:23PM

gurramok wrote: »

Thats not fair Seamus and you know it. The country(Ireland) was ruled by another foreign state for the most part either from Dublin(pre 1801) or London with the foreign ruler having the say.

The country was united under that foreign ruler for many centuries.

But that's kind of my point. There seems to be this notion that Ireland deserves to be united as a free country because that freedom was stolen from us. But Ireland has never been a free united island.

It's a nice idea if only for the sake of neatness, but I see no reason why it's required. We never had it before, so why must we have it now?

Teyla Emmagan · 22-01-2013 06:23PM

Poisoned chalice IMHO.

Crooked Jack · 22-01-2013 06:29PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I disagree, Ireland is doing fine. Northern Ireland is a mess but that's not our problem.

Even if i were to subscribe to the ridiculous notion that Ireland is just the 26 counties, Ireland is most certainly not fine.
It faces the same problems as the north and in many cases has worse one.
For example, sectarian violence in the north is reprehensible but in terms of sheer numbers it doesn't come close to the body count from gangland killings.

Solair · 22-01-2013 06:32PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I was just saying things might have been different.

BTW the Romans didn't come here.

Yeah bur they probably made the English think more colonially

gurramok · 22-01-2013 06:33PM

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

According to this:

They put the balance of expenditure over income at over £7 billion in 2007.

Any up to date figures? Since Cameron came to power, he has set deep cutbacks to all parts of UK. NI is enduring £4bn in spending cuts from 2010 to 2014.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-11590420

Surely that £4bn reduction will reduce that £7bn deficit?

super_furry · 22-01-2013 06:35PM

Maybe in the future it could work but right now we can't afford it and there'd be too much trouble from the Unionists.

Northern Ireland costs the UK £4.5 billion a year in health and social care and we couldn't afford that. There remains far too much hostility towards the concept of a United Ireland and there would be a civil war in the North.

If there was a referendum tomorrow - how would you vote?

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