Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

At Least 25,000 Attend Anti-Abortion Vigil

1…89111314…28

Comments

  • #302
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    leitrimjoe90 wrote: »
    neither was that so called recent "tragedy" on abortion about a citizen but everyone screamed from the rooftops then

    Nice - very nice. Savita was a woman who died in tragic circumstances but now you are dehumanising her and belittling what happened. I really didn't think pro lifers could go that low.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #303
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,808 ✭✭✭✭smash


    mango salsa wrote: »
    They were not in the original link

    They were. It's how I saw them!


  • #304
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    smash wrote: »
    They were. It's how I saw them!

    Yeah - when I clicked on the link it only showed the first 30 or so I didn't see the rest

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #305
    lazygal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    mango salsa wrote: »
    Nice - very nice. Savita was a woman who died in tragic circumstances but now you are dehumanising her and belittling what happened. I didn't think pro lifers could go that low.

    Prolifers will stoop to any depths. I recall Senator Ronan Mullen accuse Peter Boylan, a man who, unlike him, has spent his working life tending to the needs of pregnant women, of advocating for abortion in Ireland. Lying, smearing and ridiculing those who disagree with them is all part of how they operate. Look at Breda O'Brien, who used and abused a pro choice feminist's narrative to her own ends, and who whined on RTE news about being left out of the debate in the immediate aftermath of the death of Savita. They don't care about the born and will do whatever it takes to impose their will.


  • #306
    krudler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    nosedive wrote: »
    ....so when does it stop being HER uterus and start being the baby's environment to develop and grow?


    I've often found the 'it's my body' argument to be incredibly selfish. We're talking about.creating life, is it really your body or the child's? How come you didn't exercise proper control of your body by not getting pregnant avoiding pregnancy in the first place?

    Just playing devil's advocate.

    Contraception (which pro life groups also condemn btw) isn't 100%, other medication can interfere with it, stress can affect it, condoms can break, etc etc. Are you seriously saying that because of that a woman should be forced to change her life forever? And put her body through pregnancy?

    Are most pro-lifers just that ignorant of what pregnancy involves? they probably think a stork arrives and magics the baby into the mummy's tummy, and then 9 months later, poof! a unicorn arrives and the baaaaaby pops out with no stress or blood or any of that nasty stuff that "doctors" say happens, then after a few hours the mummy is sent home to start minding baby and of course, daddy, who was nearly late for work because mummy wasn't there to fetch his slippers or bake a cake!


  • Advertisement
  • #307
    nosedive
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 88 ✭✭nosedive


    krudler wrote: »

    Contraception (which pro life groups also condemn btw) isn't 100%, other medication can interfere with it, stress can affect it, condoms can break, etc etc. Are you seriously saying that because of that a woman should be forced to change her life forever? And put her body through pregnancy?

    Are most pro-lifers just that ignorant of what pregnancy involves? they probably think a stork arrives and magics the baby into the mummy's tummy, and then 9 months later, poof! a unicorn arrives and the baaaaaby pops out with no stress or blood or any of that nasty stuff that "doctors" say happens, then after a few hours the mummy is sent home to start minding baby and of course, daddy, who was nearly late for work because mummy wasn't there to fetch his slippers or bake a cake!



    Of course I realise contraception isn't entirely reliable and I would agree that there may be circumstances where abortion would be justified but I think the 'it's my body brigade' would abort for reasons of lifestyle or personal preference instead of taking responsibility for the pregnancy and protection of a new LIFE.


  • #308
    St.Spodo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,027 ✭✭✭St.Spodo


    nosedive wrote: »
    Of course I realise contraception isn't entirely reliable and I would agree that there may be circumstances where abortion would be justified but I think the 'it's my body brigade' would abort for reasons of lifestyle or personal preference instead of taking responsibility for the pregnancy and protection of a new LIFE.

    What about cases of rape and incest?


  • #309
    Pompey Magnus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,406 ✭✭✭Pompey Magnus


    nosedive wrote: »
    Of course I realise contraception isn't entirely reliable and I would agree that there may be circumstances where abortion would be justified but I think the 'it's my body brigade' would abort for reasons of lifestyle or personal preference instead of taking responsibility for the pregnancy and protection of a new LIFE.

    No need just to think it, they freely admit it.


  • #310
    lazygal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    nosedive wrote: »
    Of course I realise contraception isn't entirely reliable and I would agree that there may be circumstances where abortion would be justified but I think the 'it's my body brigade' would abort for reasons of lifestyle or personal preference instead of taking responsibility for the pregnancy and protection of a new LIFE.

    Surely its no business of anyone to force pregnancy on another? Do you know anything about the long term physical and mental side effects of pregnancy and birth? Are you going to support women, emotionally and financially, through pregnancy until the child is 18? What's the reasons for an abortion got to do with you? If you don't want one, you don't have one. But don't dare advocate that just because a woman is pregnant and doesn't have a 'good' enough reasons to not want to remain pregnant and give birth, she should have to endure all it involves. How many born children have you taken responsibility for? Do you even know what its like to care for a born child?


  • #311
    deise111
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10 ✭deise111


    Pompey Magnus wrote: »
    Can you give one example from modern Ireland of a child whose circumstances would have been better if it had been aborted? Just one example please.

    I think you are being a bit too black and white there pompey, but anway, what about the baby a couple of months old, that's been shaken/beaten to death by drug crazed parents. We all know it happens. How was that baby better off?


  • Advertisement
  • #312
    starlings
    Closed Accounts Posts: 683 ✭✭✭starlings


    Pompey Magnus wrote: »
    Can you give one example from modern Ireland of a child whose circumstances would have been better if it had been aborted? Just one example please.

    Don't really want to get into this ontological trap of yours - just to say that the foetus is aborted, not the child that may develop from it, so your question defies biological as well as logical order. We can never test both sides of each instance of this dilemma so here's an idea - ask a woman whose foetus will not survive outside her womb if she thinks its circumstances would be better being carried to term, delivered, and dying immediately. Then respect her decision.


  • #313
    Pompey Magnus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,406 ✭✭✭Pompey Magnus


    deise111 wrote: »
    I think you are being a bit too black and white there pompey, but anway, what about the baby a couple of months old, that's been shaken/beaten to death by drug crazed parents. We all know it happens. How was that baby better off?

    Well then that child will end up no more dead than had it gone through an abortion procedure, but at least it was given a chance, it had a chance that maybe it's parents wouldn't be animals to it, it had a chance that maybe if they were animals it would still survive the childhood and go on to live a productive life and it also had the chance that if it would not survive the abuse of it's parents then perhaps the State would intervene and provide it with a safe environment.

    I can understand the arguments of pro-choice people when it comes to the welfare of the mother, some points I agree with and some I disagree with, but I can never accept it when they bring in the argument that it is also ultimately beneficial to the child.


  • #314
    gingernut125
    Closed Accounts Posts: 425 ✭✭gingernut125


    St.Spodo wrote: »

    What about cases of rape and incest?


    They seem to be avoiding this one.


  • #315
    starlings
    Closed Accounts Posts: 683 ✭✭✭starlings


    Pompey Magnus wrote: »
    I can never accept it when they bring in the argument that it is also ultimately beneficial to the child.

    I've never heard that one, Pompey, and if I did I'd reject it as absurd and/or disingenuous.


  • #316
    Squeeonline
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,583 ✭✭✭Squeeonline


    There was an awful lot of expensively printed posters...


  • #317
    Pompey Magnus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,406 ✭✭✭Pompey Magnus


    starlings wrote: »
    I've never heard that one, Pompey, and if I did I'd reject it as absurd and/or disingenuous.

    Perhaps you haven't read all this thread or the other one running at the minute, it is a claim which has been raised at least twice by pro-choice posters.


  • #318
    starlings
    Closed Accounts Posts: 683 ✭✭✭starlings


    Pompey Magnus wrote: »
    Perhaps you haven't read all this thread or the other one running at the minute, it is a point which has been raised at least twice by pro-choice posters.

    I think you're confusing beneficial with "better off". Not the same.


  • #319
    Pompey Magnus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,406 ✭✭✭Pompey Magnus


    starlings wrote: »
    I think you're confusing beneficial with "better off". Not the same.

    Perhaps I am ignorant of the difference between something being beneficial and something causing one to be better off, to my mind if something is "beneficial" then it provides an advantage, if someone is "better off" then they have been in receipt of something which has been advantageous. Could you clarify where I am confusing things here?


  • #320
    Napper Hawkins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,903 ✭✭✭Napper Hawkins


    Lingua Franca wrote: »
    I'll just refer you to this photoset too: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.584801708212313.155515.132000150159140

    Priests, nuns, monks, rosaries, crucifixes, people carrying statues and portraits of the virgin Mary all in abundance.

    And here: https://twitter.com/CatholicBishops/status/292672514973380608/photo/1

    That's a whole lot of people who will never have to worry about getting pregnant themselves!


  • #321
    starlings
    Closed Accounts Posts: 683 ✭✭✭starlings


    Pompey Magnus wrote: »
    Perhaps I am ignorant of the difference between something being beneficial and something causing one to be better off, to my mind if something is "beneficial" then it provides an advantage, if someone is "better off" then they have been in receipt of something which has been advantageous. Could you clarify where I am confusing things here?

    It's to do with comparison. "Beneficial" is something that does good. "Better off" just means one situation is better, to some degree, than another. If you are stuck between a rock and a hard place, you have to figure out which one will be better. Neither will be beneficial, but one will be slightly better- or less bad - than the other.


  • Advertisement
  • #322
    Pompey Magnus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,406 ✭✭✭Pompey Magnus


    Napper Hawkins wrote: »
    That's a whole lot of people who will never have to worry about getting pregnant themselves!

    I see quite a few people at the counter protest of a similar disposition.


  • #323
    Leftist
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,230 ✭✭✭Leftist


    the lunatics are always well mobilised. They are lunatics afterall. Absolute mindless drones. Machines.

    look at the teaparty in the u.s. A small minority that can dictate national policy.


  • #324
    Napper Hawkins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,903 ✭✭✭Napper Hawkins


    Pompey Magnus wrote: »
    I see quite a few people at the counter protest of a similar disposition.


    Thank **** for that!


  • #325
    podgemonster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,228 ✭✭✭podgemonster


    Walked into town after this heading out for dinner and the crowd were still filtering away. Merrion square looked more like Mountjoy square on all ireland day,a lot of private buses.

    Anyway i dont think protest from either make any difference at this stage. Lets have a referendum, lets the country decide and have more entertaining threads like murderous housemates and sexy grinds teachers!


  • #326
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    There were at least 2 referenda. Both confirmed a majority agreed with the x case ruling. The pro-lifers lost this particular battle 20 years ago. What a waste of money that could have been used to buy food or shelter for people in need. Perhaps if the unborn babbies can't have it then no-one can.


  • #327
    Penn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,965 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Sarky wrote: »
    There were at least 2 referenda. Both confirmed a majority agreed with the x case ruling. The pro-lifers lost this particular battle 20 years ago. What a waste of money that could have been used to buy food or shelter for people in need. Perhaps if the unborn babbies can't have it then no-one can.

    Don't worry, it's not like Irish money is being used for it any more. It's mostly from America.


  • #328
    missyb
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 92 ✭✭missyb


    I think it is very hard to generalise entirely around the people who are pro choice and pro life but yet the debate has become a joke aorund stero types that remain unchallenged in an logical way just a load of name calling, we are an immature society and this is exposed time and time again around the most serious issues.
    It reminds me of my mother who I would describe as a "practical catholic" with regard to her views on things like contraception for example I also know of a family from where I am originally from that attended that march who aren't religious, they are confirmed atheists, as is my dad, he is friends with the family which is how I know. I know the parents are don't know about the kids (teenagers). I would be pro choice, my mother is pro choice overall and definitely religious, her friend wanted her to attend the march and my mother refused because her views are very complex on the issue and she still considers her self to be catholic though i'm sure she would be told a thing or two about that given some of her views. I have found the current debate on abortion in Ireland utterly depressing on both sides,throwing stero types at each other, doing nothing to distance themselves from fundamentalist elements that are threatening violence and making death threats. It has been childish, hate filled and vicious. On what moral ground does anyone of any opinion send a death threat to a person? The inability for intelligent and mature debate on this issue exposes to me many weaknesses in irish society and our mentality and our ability for rational debate. I really hope they legislate, I already know my partners priority would be to save my life should the situation arise where I am not in a position to make a decision (hopefully never). But the behavior from both sides of the argument really is depressing imo.


  • #329
    VinLieger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,065 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Penn wrote: »
    Don't worry, it's not like Irish money is being used for it any more. It's mostly from America.

    Shhh its meant to be a secret


  • #330
    Pompey Magnus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,406 ✭✭✭Pompey Magnus


    Penn wrote: »
    Don't worry, it's not like Irish money is being used for it any more. It's mostly from America.

    Is there more American money supporting the Pro Life campaign than is going to support the Pro Choice side? Abortion is very profitable business in the USA, there is money to be made in helping to spread the practice over here too. Just for one example the Pro-Choice Irish Council for Civil Liberties recieved €8,822 in donations from Irish people in 2009 (€45 of this was from public donation, the rest was from membership) but received €2 million from America.


  • Advertisement
  • #331
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭jank


    lazygal wrote: »
    Pregnancy is difficult and has lifelong health consequences, as does childbirth. The way some people go on, usually those who never have or will be pregnant, you'd think it had no physical or mental side effects whatsoever.

    Ah, so it is a disease? Thanks for clearing that up for me.


Advertisement