Restaurant bans children...

Deleted User wrote: »

Another time in an actual 5 star restaurant myself and my girlfriend were enjoying a meal when a couple and their baby, who was asleep in its pram were seated close to us. Neither myself or my gf were the least bit put out by the family but as soon as the waitress has shown them to their table a couple close by called over their server and made a fuss about the restaurant allowing in children. The waiter explained that it was the restaurants policy that children were more than welcome and unless they were disturbing other diners then nothing would be done. The couple started into the whole when we go to an expensive restaurant we expect a certain clientele and that doesn't include children spiel and were extremely loud when doing so. it was obvious that the couple who had brought their sleeping child in were quite uncomfortable listening to all this. The dickish couple continued to complain to their waiter and the wife asked if they could be reseated. The waiter told them of course they could and with a smile on his face led them to the table closest the kitchen. For the rest of the evening every time I looked over at the couple I had to laugh as they looked completely miserable and it was obvious that their waiter was going out of his way to give them poor service. The same waiter after reseating the couple went over and apologised to the family for what was said and offered them a complimentary drink.

That's exactly the attitude I'm talking about, and you see it time and time again- in cafes, restaurants, on planes and trains, or even if you're struggling with a buggy on steps.

Onthe3rdDay wrote: »

I will say that anytime I've been on mainland Europe, there has never been a problem with children in restaurants.

And people always seem to be suprised by this. In mainland Europe kids and their parents are welcomed, and respected. When you compare the at best, indifference and, at worst, outright hostility they get in Ireland, it's no wonder they might behave differently.

I've never been disturbed by a child in a restaurant and I don't agree with a blanket ban on all kids being in a restaurant, especially during the day.

I have a one year old and we would often go out for lunch or an early dinner. How else is a child supposed to learn how to behave in a social setting if they are never exposed to it? She rarely makes a fuss and if she does start crying one of us takes her for a walk. I wouldn't take her out in the evening as I don't think it would be appropriate for a child of that age to be out at that time. A newborn though who would be sleeping most of the time I wouldn't see a problem with.

A few years ago myself and my partner went to an upmarket restaurant for a New Year's Eve meal which went on past midnight. There was a woman there with a newborn and, shock horror, she was also breastfeeding. We didn't have a problem with it and neither did any of the other patrons or staff. I suspect if this had happened in Ireland people would have a major problem with it!

Children are a part of society and should be treated as such, not excluded on the basis of a minority who are troublesome.

I think Popinjay and Onthe3rdDay are on the same page as myself.

Banning children from leaving the house until they are 18 isn't what we are suggesting.

We are simply suggesting that sometimes, people do wish to NOT be around children, in certain areas. The reason for this? Because if I go into a nice restaurant, hell, if I go in to the cinema, and see a child, the likelyhood is that the child is going to start acting up. And following that, the likelyhood is that the parents will do nothing to stop them. Why should I have to either put up with it, or stay at home?

We are not asking you to do the same.

I see it in work every week. I've asked children to behave. I've asked parents to keep an eye on their children. Do you know what I get whenever I do? At best, a :rolleyes: and they keep an eye on them for a few minutes, after which the child(ren) gets bored again, and off they go again. At worst, they take it as a person afront to their very existance. Which is seen on this thread. As I mentioned elsewhere, I've seen children seriously injured by the negligence of the parents, and do you know whose fault it is? Ours.

The reason there seems to be a hatred for children in this country? Not because it's a fun thing to do. It's because most of those people will have had a bad experience. And yes, bad experiences do live on in memory longer than what good ones will.

When I went to see Avatar, some fool brought their 3 children to see it. I'm guessing the kids were under the age of 7. Before the trailers finished, the kids were running up and down the steps. Did the ushers/management do anything? No. Why? Because it's not worth the hassle of dealing with the parents that think "Ah, shure, they're only being kids."

I like kids, I really do. And if I'm in a restaurant, and someones kids starts playing with me, or whatever, I'll make faces at them, I'll talk to them, I'll play with them. But if I'm in a restaurant, and the kid starts being a brat, I won't approach the parents, because it's not worth my while. I'll just finish up, pay what is due, and leave. I may or may not return to the restaurant. That restaurant may not have my custom again.

Why should the business suffer due to the fact that a lot of parents will simply not train/teach their children how to behave? It shouldn't be up to the business to be responsible for someones child. Is the legal guardian not responsible for the child?

Why should I not have the option, when deciding where to spend my money, to think "Oh, myself and Mrs. Sof want a nice lunch/dinner. Oh, XXX place is adult only, it'll be nice, lets go there." or "Lets go to YYY place, it's a nice family atmosphere."

People keep referencing Europe about children eating in restaurants. Great. They seem to be able to parent their children. But they also seem to know that some places aren't suitable for children, so they don't bring them.

Deleted User wrote: »

The topic is indeed about children but the comparison is no less valid. If it was any other section of society that a blanket ban was applied to then there would be hundreds of groups protesting. Imagine if you will the ban was toward women or gay people or non-whites or anyone over 65 or under 65 and the content of this thread would be quite different.

Any establishment is free to select who may patronise them but in the current economic climate I can this ban on kids back firing. While it may initially be a winner for them, the coverage if it certainly hasn't hurt over time it could cost them more customers than it attracts and if in 6 months time it were to close down then I doubt that many will have much sympathy for them.

A funny story just came to mind. About a year and a half ago my patents and you get brothers were going to England for a few days and the night before they left were staying in a Bewley's hotel in Dublin. Myself and my gf met them. when we were having dinner in the restaurant with my family I accidentally knocked over my drink. At the table across from us a women said "that's what happens when you bring kids out. They can't help but make a mess". My gf not missing a beat turned to her and said "and opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and its only the real asses that can't theirs to themselves". I bet that woman went and complained about how her evening was ruined by that rude family who had the audacity to take their young child to eat in the hotel restaurant when in fact the only one there that night who in any way intruded in any one else's meal was her.

I think kids get a bad rep in this country. Most kids, the cast majority are well behaved and mannerly when out in public and more so when in a restaurant other than McDonalds or the like.

While this has nothing to do with restaurants I've always found it funny that more often than not the most peaceful and quite cinema screens are the ones populated by children and their parents. I have never been at a screening of a kids film where noise has been an issue yet I have often tried to sit through a screening of a film aimed at adults where people have chatted to one another, laughed amongst themselves and even taken their phones out ruiningthe cinema going experience for everyone else there.

Why are people still obviously ignoring the fact that Curves, which I and others have brought up many times, caters exclusively for women.

I work in a hotel. Our hotel aims at the adult market. Our spa is exclusively over 16's, that includes the pool. No children allowed. None. At any time of the day. Yes, some people are put out. But the majority of our guests come here, BECAUSE there are no children allowed in it. We are doing a roaring trade. This will be the 4th year in a row we have turned quite a substantial profit.

Just lost a nice long post, but I'm willing to try again...

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't think I've ever experienced a situation in a restaurant where children have run riot or acted in a manner that took away from my enjoyment of my meal.

I don't think I've ever experienced a situation in which somebody has oggled my tits while I'm working out. I'm still ok with the existence of Curves where I can't go.

I think that there are people of a certain mind set that get annoyed at the very notion that there are children eating in the same vicinity as them

And none of those people seem to have posted in this thread.

A few months back my parents and my two little brothers were up to visit me and while my parents were shopping I took my brothers to McDonalds. While we were there my youngest brother who is 5 was making faces and playing with a child in the booth behind us. They were laughing and doing what kids do and it was in no way intrusive or distracting to anyone yet a couple sitting across from us repeatedly rolled their eyes and tutted loudly while repeated making loud remarks along the lines of "children really should be seen and not heard" and "there should be a special section for parents who must bring their kids out". my facorite comment was "you wouldn't get this at a Michilin starred restaurant". I had to laugh as did the parents of the other kids at the crap this couple were spouting. if it was a 5 star eating establishment and the kids had been running around the place screaming then their remarks may have been valid but this was in a McDonlds and the fact that the complaining couple were a whole lot louder than the kids. What really made the ocassion was when a group of lads sat at another table asked of the noise could be kept down. The couple triumphantly smiled and the female said "see we're not the only ones bothered by them" only got one of the lads to turn around and say "it's not the kids who are bothering us but the stuck up, loud mouth cows sat across from them".

It's McDonalds, if you can't put up with kids there, you should ****ing stay at home. But nobody is asking for McDonald's to be kid free. That couple were in the wrong and nobody looking for child free restaurants on this thread has suggested anytrhing other than that at any point.

Another time in an actual 5 star restaurant myself and my girlfriend were enjoying a meal when a couple and their baby, who was asleep in its pram were seated close to us. Neither myself or my gf were the least bit put out by the family but as soon as the waitress has shown them to their table a couple close by called over their server and made a fuss about the restaurant allowing in children. The waiter explained that it was the restaurants policy that children were more than welcome and unless they were disturbing other diners then nothing would be done. The couple started into the whole when we go to an expensive restaurant we expect a certain clientele and that doesn't include children spiel and were extremely loud when doing so. it was obvious that the couple who had brought their sleeping child in were quite uncomfortable listening to all this. The dickish couple continued to complain to their waiter and the wife asked if they could be reseated. The waiter told them of course they could and with a smile on his face led them to the table closest the kitchen. For the rest of the evening every time I looked over at the couple I had to laugh as they looked completely miserable and it was obvious that their waiter was going out of his way to give them poor service. The same waiter after reseating the couple went over and apologised to the family for what was said and offered them a complimentary drink.

Restaurant policy allows it and the child isn't being a bother. See the McD's response above for who I think was being a ****.

But restaurant policy shouldn't have to allow kids. Some restaurants allow stag parties, hen parties and the strippers associated with both. I don't think all restaurants should have to. And I wouldn't bring kids to one that does.

That doesn't mean I hate stag dos, hen dos or strippers.

MrCreosote wrote: »

And people always seem to be suprised by this. In mainland Europe kids and their parents are welcomed, and respected. When you compare the at best, indifference and, at worst, outright hostility they get in Ireland, it's no wonder they might behave differently.

They do behave differently. The kids behave better. And I can assure you that there are kid free restaurants in Europe too.

Deleted User wrote: »

I think luck has very little to do with it. I think it's more down to the fact that in the vast majority of situations involving children and restaurants the time passes without incident or wild scenes of children run amok. I always find it funny that people will be up in arms complaining about that family who brought their kids yet often have no issue with a drunken idiot who spends his meal talking very loudly and energetically.

I'd have issue with that idiot too. And I would, and do, avoid the places where I'd have to deal with him.

However, the law also prevents him from going places. Nobody is asking for a law preventing kids from going places.

ceadaoin. wrote: »

I've never been disturbed by a child in a restaurant and I don't agree with a blanket ban on all kids being in a restaurant, especially during the day.

I've never had problems with men staring at my tits while I work out. I'm still ok with Curves.

I have a one year old and we would often go out for lunch or an early dinner. How else is a child supposed to learn how to behave in a social setting if they are never exposed to it? She rarely makes a fuss and if she does start crying one of us takes her for a walk. I wouldn't take her out in the evening as I don't think it would be appropriate for a child of that age to be out at that time. A newborn though who would be sleeping most of the time I wouldn't see a problem with.

I get up before 6am for work 5 days a week. Are you telling me that I have to limit myself to late dinners, getting served my main course after 10pm, just so you can bring the kids wherever you want.

Why can't I have somewhere where I don't hae to deal with kids that aren't my own and still have an early dinner?

A few years ago myself and my partner went to an upmarket restaurant for a New Year's Eve meal which went on past midnight. There was a woman there with a newborn and, shock horror, she was also breastfeeding. We didn't have a problem with it and neither did any of the other patrons or staff. I suspect if this had happened in Ireland people would have a major problem with it!

I don't.

Children are a part of society and should be treated as such, not excluded on the basis of a minority who are troublesome.

I'm a part of society and I recognise and accept that there are places where I'm flat out not fucking welcome. Why is it different for kids? Nobody is saying don't bring them anywhere, just don't bring them everywhere.

Deleted User wrote: »

The topic is indeed about children but the comparison is no less valid. If it was any other section of society that a blanket ban was applied to then there would be hundreds of groups protesting. Imagine if you will the ban was toward women or gay people or non-whites or anyone over 65 or under 65 and the content of this thread would be quite different.

I've been turned away from The George for not being gay. I would be turned away from Curves for not being a woman. How am I able to get ****ing over myself and accept that I'm not welcome everywhere and some people can't?

Any establishment is free to select who may patronise them

Then what's the issue?

but in the current economic climate I can this ban on kids back firing. While it may initially be a winner for them, the coverage if it certainly hasn't hurt over time it could cost them more customers than it attracts and if in 6 months time it were to close down then I doubt that many will have much sympathy for them.

If the support in this one thread is anything to go by, a lot of people are happy to know they can go somewhere and not have to put up with Junior's noise.

If in 6 months time they're doing great will you be happy for them? Or still begrudging the fact that some people don't want to have to listen to kids all day?

A funny story just came to mind. About a year and a half ago my patents and you get brothers were going to England for a few days and the night before they left were staying in a Bewley's hotel in Dublin. Myself and my gf met them. when we were having dinner in the restaurant with my family I accidentally knocked over my drink. At the table across from us a women said "that's what happens when you bring kids out. They can't help but make a mess". My gf not missing a beat turned to her and said "and opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and its only the real asses that can't theirs to themselves". I bet that woman went and complained about how her evening was ruined by that rude family who had the audacity to take their young child to eat in the hotel restaurant when in fact the only one there that night who in any way intruded in any one else's meal was her.

Yep, she was in the wrong. Accidents happen and nobody looking for some child free spaces has yet said otherwise.

I think kids get a bad rep in this country. Most kids, the cast majority are well behaved and mannerly when out in public and more so when in a restaurant other than McDonalds or the like.

Most are. But I still shouldn't have to gamble on that every time I go out. Nothing wrong with a handful of places where kids can't go.

Market forces mean that noboy will ever have to experience a situation where kids aren't welcome anywhere and: NOBODY IS ASKING FOR THAT!

While this has nothing to do with restaurants I've always found it funny that more often than not the most peaceful and quite cinema screens are the ones populated by children and their parents. I have never been at a screening of a kids film where noise has been an issue yet I have often tried to sit through a screening of a film aimed at adults where people have chatted to one another, laughed amongst themselves and even taken their phones out ruiningthe cinema going experience for everyone else there.

I have. And in fact I was that kid, more than once. At Shakespeare in Love in the Classic in Harold's Cross where my friends and I all rightly got turfed out for disturbing everybody.

And at Jurrasic Park in the same cinema where there was nobody else around and we rolled up and down the aisles without bothering a soul.

So just because you've never experienced something doesn't mean it's not an issue.

I've never had my pocket picked but I'm not naive enough to think it's never happened to anybody.

Deleted User wrote: »

As I understand it Curves are generally franchised and franchises can let in men of they want. There are also plenty of male only gyms so its not like Curves started the whole discrimination of one gender in a gym setting.

As for an over 16s spa, well I doubt that many feel that left out. Sure a few families may have kids and want to make use of the pool but the rest of the spa is hardly a place for kids.

My point about all this is that any establishment is free to serve whomever they wish but in most cases where children are in a restaurant the time passes without incident. A lot of people just have a general dislike of kids and the mere presence of them is enough for some people to complain about them being there even if the kids are as quite and mannerly as church mice.

So, it's ok in one setting, but not in another? And to be honest, I can't think of one male only gym.

When people enquire about making a reservation, and bringing children, we inform them straight up about the over 16's policy. A lot of people bring their children away, and a swimming pool is a big draw for families with children. Not allowing them in the pool means we lose their business. We suggest alternatives to them. Ones that do allow children in their pool. It's a simple concept. Why can't the same work for a restaurant?

I just re-read the OP to Ma mère, and she said that it has been in the papers (that she reads) all week...
That the journalists seem to be all siding with the "poor girl/woman and child"..
Most of the posts i read in this thread seem to be on the side of the management/restaurant. I didn't read through them all, but it seems to be the general consensus. She agrees wholeheartedly, sayng they shouldn't be allowed with their prams/buggies and 5 friends with the same, blocking aisles all day sitting over one cup of tea and nearly grinding to a halt any business the restaurant may have. Especially at lunch. She also asked, why do they want to sit in, why not go to a park or something similar etc..? (Admittedly in winter, not as easy.)

So where are the journalists getting the view that the Lady in question is hard done by, or correct? Are all the newspapers pitying her?

And this thread shows exactly why management of premises such as restaurants find it difficult to approach parents of children causing disturbances.

Mention that children are behaving badly, and they immediately go on the defensive, and that you hate all children.

MrCreosote wrote: »

What's being said is that some people focus only on the very rare badly behaved children, and use that as a stick to beat parents everywhere with, and justification for discriminating against children and parents.

The comparisons with women-only gyms and gay bars don't stack up either. Both of those are specifically for a minority group. Young children and parents are already looked down on and you're saying that they should be further discriminated against by forcing them out of cafes and restaurants.

No, but saying that they could take their lunch at a different time, when the restaurants are less busy, rather than clog up the the place with buggies. They probably don't work/aren't working if they are bringing their kid to lunch, so why take it when the majority of people are going to be there, and it's busy.

FWIW, i never knew Young children and parents were already looked down on..

MrCreosote wrote: »

-Lack of space or areas to park or store buggies
-Overpriced and unhealthy kids' menus
-Lack of changing facilities in toilets- I've yet to see a baby changing table in the men's anywhere in Ireland. I've been given out to for changing the baby on my own sheet in the cafe- I won that argument when I angrily pointed out the fact that they'd provided nowhere else to change.
-Hostile attitude to women breastfeeding, despite the law being crystal clear.
-absence of any small play areas or children's books

That's just cafes and restaurants btw

Why should they provide these things? Because it makes for good business. They don't seem to have a problem doing it overseas.

What about businesses that discriminate against childless adults by offering discounts to children and families?

Childless people having to pay taxes that go towards children's allowance. Yeah, paying for other people to have sex. Wtf?

The fact is adults with kids are spoilt (priority parking spots in car parks for example) that they throw tantrums at every little thing they think is against them.

Helen F*cking Lovejoy Syndrome.