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David McKittrick; These protests are NOT over the flag.

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Comments

  • #332
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    Dubhlinner wrote: »
    Most certainly in economic terms. Alliance would be far more pro free market than state services than those two

    Not true. David Vance is best friends with American Libertarians ffs!


  • #333
    Dubhlinner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 456 ✭✭Dubhlinner


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    No I dont its a fact. Take a look at your TV screen sometime.

    Of course its a fact, just nothing to do with the question I posed. Early 90s loyalists were killing 50 catholics a year +, don't know how that's being kept out of the news


  • #334
    Dubhlinner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 456 ✭✭Dubhlinner


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    Dubhlinner do accept that the Provos are a lot more progressive than PUP and the UVF?

    Could you clarify what you mean by that? Who do you mean by provos? If you mean IRA I am unsure why you phrased that in present tense? If you mean provisional Sinn Fein I think PUP have more progressive policies on education and sectarianism.


  • #335
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    Dubhlinner wrote: »
    Could you clarify what you mean by that? Who do you mean by provos? If you mean IRA I am unsure why you phrased that in present tense? If you mean provisional Sinn Fein I think PUP have more progressive policies on education and sectarianism.

    WOW.

    PUP are more progressive than PSF on sectarianism?


  • #336
    Dubhlinner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 456 ✭✭Dubhlinner


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    WOW.

    PUP are more progressive than PSF on sectarianism?

    Yes they actually have a policy.
    Education

    - Financial incentives for parents to enrol their children into integrated schools. Integrated education is vital to removing fear and suspicion between the two communities in Northern Ireland. It is unacceptable that our children are educated separately for the first sixteen years of their lives because of their parents’ religious beliefs. The PUP will work to increase participation in integrated education across NI.
    Community Relations

    The Progressive Unionist Party have led the way in forging improved relations between the Irish and British communities within Northern Ireland. We were the first Unionist party to understand that if we make NI’s Nationalist community feel like this is as much their country as ours then support for a United Ireland will drop to levels which will make it unlikely to ever occur. The PUP have developed constructive links with Nationalist leaders to create cross-community relationships, combat sectarianism and stamp out interface violence. We support:

    - Harsher penalties for anyone convicted of sectarian attacks in NI. Religiously motivated crimes are an ongoing problem for Northern Ireland society. Orange halls, Protestant churches, GAA clubs and homes on either side of interfaces are regular targets for sectarian attacks. The PUP calls for harsher punishment for those convicted of sectarian attacks to deter others who plan similar violence.

    - Joint Irish/British cultural events. Northern Ireland is lucky to have two rich cultures currently flourishing in the country. The PUP will continue to encourage current initiatives to bring the orange and green cultures together. The recent joint parade with the Orange Order and Catholic Ancient Order of Hibernians Group is testament to what can be achieved when forward thinking people cross the divide. Not only are these relationships good for the people of Northern Ireland – but events like these could also increase tourism revenue.


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  • #337
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    Dubhlinner wrote: »
    Yes they actually have a policy.

    The very fact that they talk about British and Irish shows just how sectarian they really are- either all of us Irish and all and all of us are British or neither of us are. There need to deny their connection to the rest of the island should raise alarm bells. Any Jamie Byrson was involved in so-called "anti-sectarian" activism before he rose to the front with the flag row, Willie Frazer claimed that FAIR was "non-sectarian". PR to keep the grant money flowing does not change the reactionary nature of Loyalism.


  • #338
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    Also the Orange Order and the Ancient Order of Hiberians are two utterly contemptible sectarian organizations. It would be best if both didnt exist. If they are your idea of culture than you have a serious problem.


  • #339
    Dubhlinner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 456 ✭✭Dubhlinner


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    The very fact that they talk about British and Irish shows just how sectarian they really are- either all of us Irish and all and all of us are British or neither of us are. There need to deny their connection to the rest of the island should raise alarm bells. Any Jamie Byrson was involved in so-called "anti-sectarian" activism before he rose to the front with the flag row, Willie Frazer claimed that FAIR was "non-sectarian". PR to keep the grant money flowing does not change the reactionary nature of Loyalism.

    I'm getting awfully tired of you sidestepping questions when it doesn't suit your argument. Have a good night, I'm away for a pint.


  • #340
    junder
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    SoulandForm wrote: »

    The very fact that they talk about British and Irish shows just how sectarian they really are- either all of us Irish and all and all of us are British or neither of us are. There need to deny their connection to the rest of the island should raise alarm bells. Any Jamie Byrson was involved in so-called "anti-sectarian" activism before he rose to the front with the flag row, Willie Frazer claimed that FAIR was "non-sectarian". PR to keep the grant money flowing does not change the reactionary nature of Loyalism.

    Very hard not to say something to you without earning an infraction, so nationality now equates to sectarianism, somebody defining themselves as either Irish or British is a sectarian statement, either your an idiot or you must be 14 years old


  • #341
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    junder wrote: »
    Very hard not to say something to you without earning an infraction, so nationality now equates to sectarianism, somebody defining themselves as either Irish or British is a sectarian statement, either your an idiot or you must be 14 years old

    British is not a nationality; English, Welsh, Scottish, etc is.

    Do you deny that people in Northern Ireland have more in common with each other than anyone else?

    So if Nationalists are Irish, how are you not? Unless you hate your neighbours so much that you want to pathetically claim that they are not your countrymen and women.

    Its not rocket science.


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  • #342
    junder
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    SoulandForm wrote: »

    British is not a nationality; English, Welsh, Scottish, etc is.

    Do you deny that people in Northern Ireland have more in common with each other than anyone else?

    So if Nationalists are Irish, how are you not? Unless you hate your neighbours so much that you want to pathetically claim that they are not your countrymen and women.

    Its not rocket science.

    I am not Irish, i am northern Irish and a British citizen, however other people define themselves is thier own buisness


  • #343
    ardmacha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    i am northern Irish and a British citizen

    I am eastern Irish and not British in the least.
    Why do British people come and try and colonise me?


  • #344
    junder
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    ardmacha wrote: »

    I am eastern Irish and not British in the least.
    Why do British people come and try and colonise me?

    Wow it's amazing to meet somebody who is near 300 years old


  • #345
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    junder wrote: »
    I am not Irish, i am northern Irish and a British citizen, however other people define themselves is thier own buisness

    LOL...No its not.

    Males dont have periods do they how ever much they may want to define themselves as women?

    So do you really believe that Nationalists in Northern Ireland belong to a different nationality than you do?

    Once you start thinking about it it becomes very, very silly; though in the actual context its pretty sinister.


  • #346
    glic71rods46t0
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,074 ✭✭✭glic71rods46t0


    I wonder how may people are protesting the flag tonight with the nice weather!
    Probably the same number of people as are protesting in Drumcree:rolleyes:


  • #347
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    LOL...No its not.

    Males dont have periods do they how ever much they may want to define themselves as women?

    So do you really believe that Nationalists in Northern Ireland belong to a different nationality than you do?

    Once you start thinking about it it becomes very, very silly; though in the actual context its pretty sinister.
    What to you defines a nationality?


  • #348
    junder
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    SoulandForm wrote: »

    LOL...No its not.

    Males dont have periods do they how ever much they may want to define themselves as women?

    So do you really believe that Nationalists in Northern Ireland belong to a different nationality than you do?

    Once you start thinking about it it becomes very, very silly; though in the actual context its pretty sinister.

    Many people born male now define themselves as women, so what's your point? And yes many Irish nationalists have a define themselves as a different nationality that's why they carry Irish passports, I carry a British passport so by definition I am a different nationality. An African can settle in either part of the island and go through the nationalisation process and become 'Irish' or 'British'


  • #349
    junder
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    twa0kimob95e4u wrote: »
    I wonder how may people are protesting the flag tonight with the nice weather!
    Probably the same number of people as are protesting in Drumcree:rolleyes:
    There was a protest where I live


  • #350
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    junder wrote: »
    There was a protest where I live

    There was an ice cream van where I live today, didn't do much.:D


    junder wrote: »
    These guys seem to disagree

    http://belfastmediagroup.com/a-century-on-tide-of-change-is-irresistible/

    At what point do you engage with what is actually being presented to you?


  • #351
    glic71rods46t0
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,074 ✭✭✭glic71rods46t0


    junder wrote: »
    There was a protest where I live
    Was there many out? Any riots??? Not much media coverage this evening - the snow seems to be more newsworthy for some reason!


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  • #352
    junder
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    Happyman42 wrote: »

    There was an ice cream van where I live today, didn't do much.:D





    At what point do you engage with what is actually being presented to you?


    "but sadly only one flag has dominated the skyline in the century-plus since that imposing building went up in 1906"
    seems even the andytown news believes the flag was flying all round on city hall ( you know the civic building not the government building) since 1906.


  • #353
    junder
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,706 ✭✭✭junder


    twa0kimob95e4u wrote: »
    Was there many out? Any riots??? Not much media coverage this evening - the snow seems to be more newsworthy for some reason!

    There was a few people out more then expected considering the weather, and no there was no violence, and nor has there been since the protests began


  • #354
    NIMAN
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,605 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Many of you may have heard about the Nolan Show debacle the other night, which frankly shows NI up in a very bad light.

    In case anyone wants to see the 50mins of mayhem, you can watch it here:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fc5L5p6aYyM


  • #355
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    junder wrote: »
    "but sadly only one flag has dominated the skyline in the century-plus since that imposing building went up in 1906"
    seems even the andytown news believes the flag was flying all round on city hall ( you know the civic building not the government building) since 1906.

    And?

    Unionists have been saying it was flying 365 days for over a 100 years, they are obviously mistaken too.
    Have a trawl around Google there are loads of vintage pics around the time of that cutting that show the building sans flag.

    Here's another one...maybe it's laundry day?
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/normko/322976656/in/pool-oldbelfast


  • #356
    glic71rods46t0
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,074 ✭✭✭glic71rods46t0


    junder wrote: »
    "but sadly only one flag has dominated the skyline in the century-plus since that imposing building went up in 1906"
    seems even the andytown news believes the flag was flying all round on city hall ( you know the civic building not the government building) since 1906.
    I sure hope that english is not your mother tongue! The literal interpretation of the quote says nothing of the flag being a permanent fixture since 1906, rather it correctly points out that it was the only flag allowed to be flown, thereby dominating the skyline is obviously referring to the days when actually flown as no alternative (such as the tricolour) has been flown on the days which the union flag was not flown.


  • #357
    Lingua Franca
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,800 ✭✭✭Lingua Franca


    NIMAN wrote: »
    Many of you may have heard about the Nolan Show debacle the other night, which frankly shows NI up in a very bad light.

    In case anyone wants to see the 50mins of mayhem, you can watch it here:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fc5L5p6aYyM

    Pure hearsay here, but a friend claims that there was a loyalist protest blocking the entrance to the studios and that when the ticket holding audience turned up they felt too intimidated to enter and so most of them left. That the Nolan show ended up inviting the protestors in to make up the audience, leading to a very angry and one sided show.


  • #358
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    junder wrote: »
    Many people born male now define themselves as women, so what's your point? And yes many Irish nationalists have a define themselves as a different nationality that's why they carry Irish passports, I carry a British passport so by definition I am a different nationality. An African can settle in either part of the island and go through the nationalisation process and become 'Irish' or 'British'

    Great I can decide that Im male and my periods will just go away. Catch yourself on.


  • #359
    ardmacha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    Unionists have been saying it was flying 365 days for over a 100 years, they are obviously mistaken too.

    Indeed. In the 1950s this was when it was flown. Back to the days of the Stormont government, anyone.
    486115_10151640871744951_841563668_n.jpg


  • #360
    SoulandForm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭SoulandForm


    ardmacha wrote: »
    Indeed. In the 1950s this was when it was flown. Back to the days of the Stormont government, anyone.

    Make it up as you go along seems part and parcel of Unionism.

    Maybe Junder can tell us when the decision was taken to fly the flag 24/7 and why it was taken?


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  • #361
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    SoulandForm wrote: »
    Make it up as you go along seems part and parcel of Unionism.

    Maybe Junder can tell us when the decision was taken to fly the flag 24/7 and why it was taken?

    And tell us how often the queen was in procession past the gates of 'Stormont' as per clause 3 in the cutting. :D


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