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Mother jailed for not sending her three daughters to school

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Comments

  • #32
    CruelCoin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,463 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    Bummppd wrote: »
    And why wasn't he sent to jail? Why was the Mother solely responsible?

    Most likely he was working, and she was at home.

    Hard to stop your kids mitching when you're not in the same location.


  • #33
    Show Time
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,637 ✭✭✭Show Time


    conorhal wrote: »
    Must there?
    The mother could have issues at home for one thing depression as example number one which could be possible if she is raising three teenage daughters on her own.


  • #34
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    Mum is jailed for failing to send her children to school

    The accused, who is in her 30s, said she was the one at home who got her children "up and going" and brought them to school


  • #35
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    Show Time wrote: »
    The mother could have issues at home for one thing depression as example number one which could be possible if she is raising three teenage daughters on her own.

    What gives you the impression she was doing it alone? Her husband is mentioned in the article. There is a warrant out for his arrest to face similar charges.


  • #36
    Show Time
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,637 ✭✭✭Show Time


    Boombastic wrote: »
    What gives you the impression she was doing it alone? Her husband is mentioned in the article. There is a warrant out for his arrest to face similar charges.
    I am only playing devil advocate on this one as i get the strange feeling there is more to this story.


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  • #37
    Crosby Deafening Pancake
    Posts: 81,308 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Crosby Deafening Pancake


    Is home schooling recognised in ireland


  • #38
    melekalikimaka
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 10,685 Mod ✭✭✭✭melekalikimaka


    bluewolf wrote: »
    Is home schooling recognised in ireland

    yes


  • #39
    Frank Black
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭Frank Black


    Boombastic wrote: »
    The accused, who is in her 30s, said she was the one at home who got her children "up and going" and brought them to school

    or not, as the case may be.


  • #40
    gbee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,384 ✭✭✭gbee


    bluewolf wrote: »
    Is home schooling recognised in ireland

    Yes, there should be a good thread in parenting on it.


  • #41
    hoodwinked
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,175 ✭✭✭hoodwinked


    at the end of the day its a good thing, too many parents out there while not being abusive can be so lazy they would give their child the week off school so they (the parents) can have a lie in! :rolleyes:


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  • #42
    ITS_A_BADGER
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,232 ✭✭✭ITS_A_BADGER


    Really no body knows what the reason is why the mother kept her kids at home, only the mother and possibly the father if he is on the scene (they seem to imply they are separeted)

    Solicitor Orla Farrell told the court the offences stemmed "not from wilful neglect in parenting terms, but she is sometimes overly indulgent with her children when they present with illness"

    Tells me that the kids could see mommy as a pushover and feigning illness will yeild the result of no school.
    I feel that 28 days in jail was a harsh sentence for her, they could have maybe sent some sort of social worker or something over to the house in the mornings to make sure the kids went to school or something like that. To give her a final chance to get them to school everyday. Denying kids education is wrong, but sending the mom to jail for 28 days is a bit much. When she gets out of jail and if she doesnt send her kids to school everyday after that there is some other reason to it


  • #43
    Death and Taxes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,775 ✭✭✭Death and Taxes


    Rasheed wrote: »
    Social welfare support? There was no mention of financial problems.

    As for counselling, I don't think it would help her 'liberal' ideas. She got her warning, she offended again, she was then punished.

    So were her kids!
    My point is that is locking up the parent in the best interests of the kids?
    If it is , how so?


  • #44
    hairyprincess
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,300 ✭✭✭hairyprincess


    I don't see how sending the mother to prison is going to aid the situation in any way. Proper assistance in the form of parenting classes, and counselling is what this woman and ultimately her children, needs. It serves absolutely no purpose to have her locked up. She needs to be shown how to parent her children properly.

    Have a read of this story, the balance between the two is way off, inmo.

    http://http://www.donegaldaily.com/2013/01/18/mum-drove-with-customs-officer-on-bonnet-of-car-and-child-in-backseat/

    A woman drove almost 20 metres with a customs officer clinging to the bonnet of her car with her child in the back after failing to stop at a checkpoint.

    He then sent Ms Duggan on a four week driving course.

    Fining her €350 for careless driving Judge Paul Kelly said: “This is the most extraordinary case. She has hopefully learned from this experience and she had better implement everything she has learned on this court or she will be put off the road.”


  • #45
    gbee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,384 ✭✭✭gbee


    ITS_A_BADGER wrote: »
    Tells me that the kids could see mommy as a pushover and feigning illness will yeild the result of no school.

    In that case an investigation into the school should be ordered immediately. It raises the question why the children would not want to go to school.


  • #46
    Death and Taxes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,775 ✭✭✭Death and Taxes


    token101 wrote: »
    Why aren't the kids in care? This person obviously isn't fit to be a parent so just remove the kids and break this circle of **** parents raising feral kids who become **** parents.

    Yeah, like putting kids into care has such a great rep in this country!


  • #47
    Squ
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭Squ


    gbee wrote: »
    Sadly: QED.
    What?


  • #48
    Czarcasm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    ITS_A_BADGER wrote: »
    Tells me that the kids could see mommy as a pushover and feigning illness will yeild the result of no school.
    I feel that 28 days in jail was a harsh sentence for her, they could have maybe sent some sort of social worker or something over to the house in the mornings to make sure the kids went to school or something like that. To give her a final chance to get them to school everyday. Denying kids education is wrong, but sending the mom to jail for 28 days is a bit much. When she gets out of jail and if she doesnt send her kids to school everyday after that there is some other reason to it


    Just speaking from my own experience of this phenomenon, where parents are lackadaisical about sending their kids to school, the most common underlying reason is that the parents just couldn't be bothered. In cases where I've seen this happen, the school would've made every effort to work with the parents to get the kids to school, social workers would've intervened and tried to help, but the response from a lot of parents in my experience is "yeah well I'm taking my kids out of that school anyway!".

    I attended a meeting before Christmas where the parents of a family were neglecting sending their children to school. It was the final straw in months of intervention from the school, social workers, and even the Gardai were represented at the meeting to try and help the parents. I felt after the meeting that they had defiantly thumbed their noses up at "the system", coming out with classics like "you won't take my children away from me", etc.

    Their children's attendance is being monitored now, but they're not far from where this case ended up. So for those that say "must be more to this story", there certainly is- the articles mention nothing about the behind the scenes efforts that would've been made by all concerned for the children's welfare, and those concerned having to listen to cliches like "I'm a good parent, don't question my parenting skills, you're interfering in something you know nothing about", ad nauseum.

    The parents are convinced "the system is against them", and "the system" is the problem. It could never be as simple surely as they're just too disinterested in their child's welfare to make the effort to see that they get a good education? Surely not?

    Actually, it is. And some people just need to grow up and take some responsibility for their children's behaviour.


  • #49
    Rasheed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,117 ✭✭✭Rasheed


    WileyCoyote (Accelleratii Incredibus!) wrote: »

    So were her kids!
    My point is that is locking up the parent in the best interests of the kids?
    If it is , how so?
    In the long run. She will, hopefully, learn her lesson and make a resolution to send her children to school every day. They will then have a better quality of an education and any problems of falling behind can be rectified now.


  • #50
    long range shooter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,493 ✭✭✭long range shooter


    Under UNs human rights,every child have the right to an education.

    http://www.un.org/cyberschoolbus/humanrights/resources/plainchild.asp

    But to put the Mother in jail,is a bit harsh if you ask me?
    I wonder if the mother ever did get a proper education???the apple usually don't fall far away from the tree.


  • #51
    Frank Black
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭Frank Black


    gbee wrote: »
    In that case an investigation into the school should be ordered immediately. It raises the question why the children would not want to go to school.


    So, just to clarify.
    Any child not wanting to go to school on a particular day should result in a formal investigation into that school?

    We better start hiring some more public servants to carry out these investigations so.


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  • #52
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,370 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    gbee wrote: »
    I'd could say the opposite in fact.

    Children need to be free to grow themselves. School should encourage and stimulate. IMO, most schools merely brainwash the innocence and I think this is a bigger crime.

    Or to put another way, educate in preparation for life ahead.


  • #53
    gbee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,384 ✭✭✭gbee


    black francis wrote: »
    So, just to clarify.
    Any child not wanting to go to school on a particular day should result in a formal investigation into that school?

    We better start hiring some more public servants to carry out these investigations so.

    I see reading skills are slacking in this thread too. Or is it interpretation skills are exaggerating unmade points.


  • #54
    ITS_A_BADGER
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,232 ✭✭✭ITS_A_BADGER


    Czarcasm wrote: »
    Just speaking from my own experience of this phenomenon, where parents are lackadaisical about sending their kids to school, the most common underlying reason is that the parents just couldn't be bothered. In cases where I've seen this happen, the school would've made every effort to work with the parents to get the kids to school, social workers would've intervened and tried to help, but the response from a lot of parents in my experience is "yeah well I'm taking my kids out of that school anyway!".

    I attended a meeting before Christmas where the parents of a family were neglecting sending their children to school. It was the final straw in months of intervention from the school, social workers, and even the Gardai were represented at the meeting to try and help the parents. I felt after the meeting that they had defiantly thumbed their noses up at "the system", coming out with classics like "you won't take my children away from me", etc.

    Their children's attendance is being monitored now, but they're not far from where this case ended up. So for those that say "must be more to this story", there certainly is- the articles mention nothing about the behind the scenes efforts that would've been made by all concerned for the children's welfare, and those concerned having to listen to cliches like "I'm a good parent, don't question my parenting skills, you're interfering in something you know nothing about", ad nauseum.

    The parents are convinced "the system is against them", and "the system" is the problem. It could never be as simple surely as they're just too disinterested in their child's welfare to make the effort to see that they get a good education? Surely not?

    Actually, it is. And some people just need to grow up and take some responsibility for their children's behaviour.

    You obviously have some backround in these situations and make some good points, But can you really take one instance and apply it to all cases thereafter? also do you agree with the jail sentance applied in this case? was there no other solution


  • #55
    Czarcasm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    ITS_A_BADGER wrote: »
    You obviously have some backround in these situations and make some good points, But can you really take one instance and apply it to all cases thereafter?


    Ah god no, but that's why I tried to keep my comments general as opposed to focussing on one particular case, I was trying to point to the common theme in these cases rather than the individual circumstances. Every case would be looked at on an individual basis and the children's home life would be investigated and that's when you come up against opposition from parents- you're trying to help them and put them in contact with resource organisations that are falling over themselves to help them, but the parents aren't interested as they see the more people that get involved, the more you're apparently insulting their parenting skills. They seem more interested in expending their energy "fighting the system" than putting that same energy and vigour into taking responsibility for their children's welfare.

    also do you agree with the jail sentance applied in this case? was there no other solution


    You're going to be disgusted at me for saying it but I actually do, and if you'll bear with me for a minute I'll explain why.

    The LAST thing anyone wants is for the children to be taken away from their parents. Nobody actually WANTS to take the step of having to prosecute the parents for their failure to have their children attend school. This would only have happened after ALL other avenues were exhausted, because cases like this are not taken lightly first of all, and secondly, they cost money, a lot of money, and time.

    Every effort would be made to motivate the parents and help them and help the children, but often times the parents put up a resistance to that help, and because the children are the primary concern, you have to effectively take the parents out of the equation, by taking the children into care, or in this case, jailing the parents for one month, in an effort to make them see that it would be so much easier all round and for everyone involved if they would just avail of the assistance being offered to them and be a parent to their kids and teach their kids responsibility while learning how to be responsible parents themselves. It can be very hard to motivate people when in their minds they don't see any reason to change, so hopefully this sentence will make this mother see that things really do need to change. It might be hard at the beginning, but that's what the supports are there for- to help them, whatever they need. And hopefully they'll see that with a little effort, it becomes easier over time to manage getting their children to school as opposed to looking for any excuse as to why they might not be attending school and looking to blame everyone else but themselves.


  • #56
    kylith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,745 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    My mammy used to tell me that if I didn't go to school they'd lock her up for being a bad mother. I'm kind of surprised to see that she was telling the truth.

    Czarcasm wrote: »
    Just speaking from my own experience of this phenomenon, where parents are lackadaisical about sending their kids to school, the most common underlying reason is that the parents just couldn't be bothered. In cases where I've seen this happen, the school would've made every effort to work with the parents to get the kids to school, social workers would've intervened and tried to help, but the response from a lot of parents in my experience is "yeah well I'm taking my kids out of that school anyway!".

    I attended a meeting before Christmas where the parents of a family were neglecting sending their children to school. It was the final straw in months of intervention from the school, social workers, and even the Gardai were represented at the meeting to try and help the parents. I felt after the meeting that they had defiantly thumbed their noses up at "the system", coming out with classics like "you won't take my children away from me", etc.

    Their children's attendance is being monitored now, but they're not far from where this case ended up. So for those that say "must be more to this story", there certainly is- the articles mention nothing about the behind the scenes efforts that would've been made by all concerned for the children's welfare, and those concerned having to listen to cliches like "I'm a good parent, don't question my parenting skills, you're interfering in something you know nothing about", ad nauseum.

    The parents are convinced "the system is against them", and "the system" is the problem. It could never be as simple surely as they're just too disinterested in their child's welfare to make the effort to see that they get a good education? Surely not?

    Actually, it is. And some people just need to grow up and take some responsibility for their children's behaviour.
    And, hopefully, this case will help to bring it home to those people the consequences of their lackadaisical attitude.


  • #57
    gbee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,384 ✭✭✭gbee


    kylith wrote: »
    And, hopefully, this case will help to bring it home to those people the consequences of their lackadaisical attitude.

    OH! The implications!

    So tell all, why did YOU not want to go to school?


  • #58
    Death and Taxes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,775 ✭✭✭Death and Taxes


    Czarcasm wrote: »
    Ah god no, but that's why I tried to keep my comments general as opposed to focussing on one particular case, I was trying to point to the common theme in these cases rather than the individual circumstances. Every case would be looked at on an individual basis and the children's home life would be investigated and that's when you come up against opposition from parents- you're trying to help them and put them in contact with resource organisations that are falling over themselves to help them, but the parents aren't interested as they see the more people that get involved, the more you're apparently insulting their parenting skills. They seem more interested in expending their energy "fighting the system" than putting that same energy and vigour into taking responsibility for their children's welfare.





    You're going to be disgusted at me for saying it but I actually do, and if you'll bear with me for a minute I'll explain why.

    The LAST thing anyone wants is for the children to be taken away from their parents. Nobody actually WANTS to take the step of having to prosecute the parents for their failure to have their children attend school. This would only have happened after ALL other avenues were exhausted, because cases like this are not taken lightly first of all, and secondly, they cost money, a lot of money, and time.

    Every effort would be made to motivate the parents and help them and help the children, but often times the parents put up a resistance to that help, and because the children are the primary concern, you have to effectively take the parents out of the equation, by taking the children into care, or in this case, jailing the parents for one month, in an effort to make them see that it would be so much easier all round and for everyone involved if they would just avail of the assistance being offered to them and be a parent to their kids and teach their kids responsibility while learning how to be responsible parents themselves. It can be very hard to motivate people when in their minds they don't see any reason to change, so hopefully this sentence will make this mother see that things really do need to change. It might be hard at the beginning, but that's what the supports are there for- to help them, whatever they need. And hopefully they'll see that with a little effort, it becomes easier over time to manage getting their children to school as opposed to looking for any excuse as to why they might not be attending school and looking to blame everyone else but themselves.

    Good points you make, but I would disagree that every effort had been made to motivate the parents. Surely a financial penalty being imposed on them (speaking generally here , not about any specific case) could be effective, or requiring the parents to do 100 hours community service so that they have to pay with their time for not sending their kids to school, or would compulsory parenting classes not be a more radical and cheaper step than imprisonment?
    Surely imprisonment for a non violent offence should be the absolute last resort, especially in a case like this.


  • #59
    kylith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,745 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    gbee wrote: »
    OH! The implications!

    So tell all, why did YOU not want to go to school?

    The same reason that most children don't want to go to school; it was boring.


  • #60
    gbee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,384 ✭✭✭gbee


    kylith wrote: »
    The same reason that most children don't to go to school; it was boring.

    A very good answer and thank you.

    But MOST children you say? Surely not?


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  • #61
    kylith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,745 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    I'd say that most children who don't want to go to school don't want to go because they find it boring.

    Or are you saying that I'm implying that the majority of children don't want to go to school? Honestly, they probably don't want to go. I don't think any of my nieces or nephews over the age of 6 want to go to school.


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