Another Barbaric Execution in Saudi

Zebra3 · 17-01-2013 07:09PM

Killer Wench wrote: »

Eh not quite Many Americans realize that the Iranian people in fact like Americans. It is their unstable leadership that concerns us.

Why does it concern you? Do you think Iran is going attack the US?

How do you think Iranian people feel about the nutjobs who have been running America?

How do you think Iranian people felt when the US backed Saddam while he was gassing Iranian civilians?

How many countries have Iran attacked since 1979?

And in the same time how many have the US attacked?

It doesn't take an expert to work which of the two countries is the more dangerous one.

Show Time · 17-01-2013 07:10PM

WileyCoyote (Accelleratii Incredibus!) wrote: »

Only you could pervert the thread so it meets your virulent anti traveller agenda!:mad:

Read the rest of my posts instead of just pulling out what suits your OWN agenda. I am far from anti traveller but i am anti any scumbag behaviour be it from the settled of traveller community.

I demand an apology from you.

Celly Smunt · 17-01-2013 07:20PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMh-vlQwrmU

I know this is Dubai.But after working in saudi i can assure you it is the same if not worse.

a posse ad esse · 17-01-2013 07:29PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Funny I've heard similar about Iran many times from many folks who had experience of the place. That it was one of the most welcoming places and culture in the region. The western(usually American) slant that they're all a bunch of mad mullahs is apparently quite wrong. Then again they have their own issues with executions and women's rights, but from what I gathered otherwise it was a nice place.

Standman wrote: »

I think the issue is that people often assume the citizens of Iran are as backward as their government and laws. In reality they are very "western" like people held hostage by a minority of nutcases in government.

-

I agree with both your comments very much.

I will recommend anyone who wants to take a trip to Iran. I was indeed pleasantly surprised when I was there. Their history is fascinating, their museums made my jaw drop along with the historical landscapes. The country does have it all, great skiing, the Caspian Sea, the dessert landscapes. They are very diverse ethnically, religiously and they are among the nicest and most hospitable people I ever met and I am well travelled and have lots to compare to. Also their cuisine is delicious.

The only thing Saudi Arabia and Iran have in common is that they are governed by strict Islamic laws. But they are very different when it comes to mentality and how they live. I have come to realise that the Saudis are ingrained to believe this way and think that it's right. whereas the Iranians generally don't. Although Saudi Arabia is supposed to be the centre of Islam, I find the Iranians are closer to the true principles of Islam (tolerance and treating others with respect) You can see how different they are by the way their people interact, how men treat women and how religious minorities are treated. I am not allowed to bring a Bible or wear my crucifix and "la madonna" in Saudi. These items would be confiscated at the airport. If you are caught wearing anything religious that is not Islamic in Saudi Arabia, a "fatwa" is issued with an automatic death sentence. I took a major risk going to a Greek Embassy that held clandestine masses and accepting communion. On the other hand, Iran respect other faiths and people can practise openly. Religious minorities are not discriminated and are represented in the government! Even though Ahmadinejad is anti-Israeli, the Jews living in Iran are not threatened and are well respected there. Christians too can practise freely and openly. In fact the Armenians were welcomed with open arms to Iran when they had to flee from Turkey to escape the genocide. Armenians have been residing in Iran for many generations. The Muslims even helped with the construction of their churches and cathedrals. People are free to worship their religion but are expected to abide by the local (strict Islamic) laws. I don't see anything wrong with that as they are free to worship as they choose which to me shows that they are more tolerant and accepting. I did not even find the religious police in Iran intimidating like Saudi Arabia. They are not aggressive and more forgiving. I thought I was going to get whipped in Saudi Arabia for wearing tinted chapstick :eek: Despite Iran being governed by strict Islamic law and tend to have more traditional gender roles, from my personal experiences, I found the men to be more respectful of women in general. I did not experience or witness any level of misogyny. I noticed that my local female colleagues were treated respectfully by their male counterparts. I unfortunately cannot say the same with the other nations I worked in the region.

My parents raised me to be an open-minded person and accept all people regardless of creed, nationality and not to paint everyone with the same brush. It's hard not to when you see a MAJORITY act this way. My experiences over there opened my eyes to how intolerant a society can be. Ireland is far from perfect and now living in Canada I have seen how Natives are treated over here but compared to Saudi Arabia it's Utopia! The people I really feel bad for in Saudi Arabia is 50% of its population; the women. They are either completely brainwashed to believe this way of living is acceptable or merely terrified to speak out. If I were to be born and raised in that society, I personally think it's better to be working class background not privileged. Nothing would be more depressing that to have the opportunity to study aborad then have to go back to that hell hole. I have met some women from similar nations studying with me at QUB in tears that they had to go back to that sh*thole. Where they are forced to get married and have a husband that does not want them to work and stay home all day. Not have the freedom to go grocery shopping ffs! At least not having this luxury would make it somewhat more tolerable asyou "didn't know any better". I can see why the suicide rate for women is very high there (and something the government does not want to admit to).

I cannot imagine a nation that is supposed to be the centre of Islam literally the opposite of what Islam is supposed to be about.

SafeSurfer · 17-01-2013 08:04PM

A large part of the containment strategy concerning Iran is to ensure that Saudi Arabia emerge as the dominant regional power in the middle east and not Iran. Iran could have been a bastion of peace and democracy in the ME now but for the US propping the corrupt, repressive Shah, driving people into the arms of fundamentalists.
Saudi Arabia will never be earmarked for regime change by the west a la Libya or Syria and will never be permitted to have an Arab Spring. A quick google of their military expenditure and the countries which profit from supplying these weapons is informative.

17-01-2013 09:36PM

FTA69 wrote: »

While we're on the subject of domestic workers it's also worth mentioning that here in Europe, many of them also face appalling conditions indeed. As a trade union organiser I work with a project currently trying to organise domestic workers in London; we also put on free classes in English, IT and Art which are all taught and run by volunteer tutors from the university and community sector. When I first started tutoring these people I knew I would encounter stories of abuse but nothing could have prepared me for some of the experiences related to me, you honestly would forget that they were working in 21st Century Britain as opposed to some feudal fiefdom. The most worrying thing was that this abuse often came at the hands of British employers (barristers, company directors etc) who were deemed pillars of society outside of the home but were abusive tyrants within in. Our classes are run on a Saturday afternoon as many of the women have to lie and say they are attending religious devotions, they would be sacked if their employer knew they were attending a trade union course.

Some of the problems that they face are:

-confiscation of passports
-bullying
-assault
-sexual assault
-rape
-underpayment
-no time off
-threats
-16 hour days
-inadequate food
-inadequate lodgings

Some of these women have had to flee with nothing but a handful of clothes such was the abuse they were put under, finding themselves in the middle of a city they knew nothing about, with no English, no money, no friends and no family.

http://www.j4dw.org/about

The above link is a bit about an organisation associated with our union that advocates on behalf of domestic workers. While rightly criticising the plight of domestic workers abroad, also bear in mind that much of the same is also happening on our own doorstep.

Do they have anything you can donate to or help out somehow

JupiterKid · 27-01-2013 10:55AM

Sri Lanka, home country of the maid that was beheaded in Saudi Arabia earlier this month, has announced a ban on female nationals under the age of 25 from working as domestic workers abroad.

The move is widely believed to have been prompted by the barbaric execution.

Wibbs · 27-01-2013 11:24AM

Killer Wench wrote: »

Eh not quite Many Americans realize that the Iranian people in fact like Americans. It is their unstable leadership that concerns us.

How many Americans also believe the widely reported "wipe Israel from the map" speech given by Ahmadinejad when it's not what he said? Never mind the phrase can't be translated into Persian.

To be fair Zebra makes a good point;

Zebra3 wrote: »

Why does it concern you? Do you think Iran is going attack the US?

How do you think Iranian people feel about the nutjobs who have been running America?

How do you think Iranian people felt when the US backed Saddam while he was gassing Iranian civilians?

How many countries have Iran attacked since 1979?

And in the same time how many have the US attacked?

It doesn't take an expert to work which of the two countries is the more dangerous one.

I dunno about "dangerous", but I would suspect if Aliens were watching they would likely come to the conclusion that one country was interfering far more with other countries, both in backdoor and more overt ways(often in crazily self destructive ways) and that country wouldn't be Iran. I think the problem America has is that for most of the 20th century they had the big enemy, those blasted Commies(tm) and when they went away the huge anti Red apparatus and "we may be under attack circle the wagons" psyche* was scrabbling around looking for the new enemy, the new guys in black hats and too often in order to find it they ramped up threats, even indirectly(and directly) caused threats for their apparatus to fight. Shít we even saw that in Hollywood. Rambo was fighting commies, then helping Muslim warriors to fight commies cos they're the good guys... oh wait... If Rambo came out today chances are high he'd be fighting them.

To be fair that 20th century boogyman fight gave the world some real innovation in science and tech. It even got humans on the moon. Hell it had a big part to play in what was to become the internet we're chatting on now. The real bloody tragic thing is how many mothers sons and fathers daughters on all sides have ended up dead and continue to die because of it.

*you hear people say that this "paranoia" is an American thing, but it's really not. All empires have had their own "barbarians at the gates". It seems to go with the territory.

Wibbs · 27-01-2013 11:25AM

JupiterKid wrote: »

Sri Lanka, home country of the maid that was beheaded in Saudi Arabia earlier thus month, has announced a ban on female nationals under the age of 25 from working as domestic workers abroad.

That's a good idea. Would be good if other nations that supplied this trade and not just for SA did the same.

the purple tin · 27-01-2013 11:45AM

If the US gov says anything about this it will be 'everyone has the right to a fair trial-then you can execute them'.

Pottler · 27-01-2013 11:54AM

the purple tin wrote: »

If the US gov says anything about this it will be 'everyone has the right to a fair trial-then you can execute them'.

Which is quite funny, because if it's a fair trial you are after, the U.S is really not the place to go looking for one. At least not if you are poor. If you are rich, nothings guaranteed, (take Conrad Blacks experience for example) but chances are you'll fare better.

pablomakaveli · 27-01-2013 12:09PM

Wibbs wrote: »

I dunno, they have religion on their side, descendants of someone close to Muhammed IIRC? Plus they control most of the holiest sites of Islam which is another bargaining tool. I read somewhere they're ruffling feathers even there as they bulldozed some historically important structures.

Thats true. Idolatry is reviled in wahhabism so they've no problem building over sites of historical importance.

I absolutely despise Saudi Arabia. The sooner the oil drys up there the better.

Zebra3 · 27-01-2013 12:43PM

Wibbs wrote: »

To be fair that 20th century boogyman fight gave the world some real innovation in science and tech. It even got humans on the moon.

It was Nazi technology and leading former Nazi war criminals that got the Americans to the moon.

For some reason that piece of history is always brushed aside.

GalwayGuy2 · 27-01-2013 12:56PM

It was Nazi technology and leading former Nazi war criminals that got the Americans to the moon.

For some reason that piece of history is always brushed aside.

It's common knowledge that Nazi scientists were allowed to enter America for their skills. Although, they weren't, could be wrong here, the concentration camp psychopaths. Do you have any names of the leading former Nazi war criminals that helped Nasa?

1ZRed · 27-01-2013 01:20PM

As much as I might like to see some parts of the Middle East, I've no business going there in it's current state considering it's not exactly the safest place for someone like me either.

enfant terrible · 27-01-2013 01:32PM

Biggins wrote: »

As long as the oil is there, they will be allowed to do what the hell they want basically.

Yes its the Americans fault, those primitive Saudi's can not be held responsible for their own actions.

Wibbs · 27-01-2013 01:48PM

GalwayGuy2 wrote: »

It's common knowledge that Nazi scientists were allowed to enter America for their skills. Although, they weren't, could be wrong here, the concentration camp psychopaths. Do you have any names of the leading former Nazi war criminals that helped Nasa?

Well Von Braun had some murky history. A few witnesses who survived the work camps for the V projects said he was there in the thick of it supervising. Generally though while many were Nazi's/members of the Nazi party(inc Braun) the vast majority weren't war criminals. Membership of the party was held by a lot of people, not having it would usually sideline someone and many of the German scientists went along with that. Morally dubious hell yes, but criminal not so much IMHO.

Plus in the prewar days many US businesses were only too happy to get into bed with reich companies and it was obvious even then the regime was well dodgy and those businesses didn't get any official stick for it. Indeed after the war very very few of the German business heads, men whose money had supported hitler, were ever brought to task. The conglomerate businesses themselves were broken up, but otherwise survived, usually with the same management. Very murky and dirty period of history that.

Doc Ruby · 27-01-2013 01:56PM

a posse ad esse wrote: »

As far as that region is concerned the country where I was suprised to see the people that were the most tolerant of foreign nationals was Iran. For the six months I was there, I did not see one Iranian being disrespectful to any south east Asian labourer or other foreign national for that matter.

Yeah the Iranians are sound, in my experience. The only people they haven't time for are the Arabs.

Grayson · 27-01-2013 03:33PM

Gulf arabs in general are the most racist people I've known. Don't get me wrong, there are some very understanding people, but by and large they tend to look down on everyone whilst thinking themselves civilised and modern.

Another Barbaric Execution in Saudi

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