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Another Barbaric Execution in Saudi

2

Comments

  • #32
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    a posse ad esse wrote: »
    As far as that region is concerned the country where I was suprised to see the people that were the most tolerant of foreign nationals was Iran. For the six months I was there, I did not see one Iranian being disrespectful to any south east Asian labourer or other foreign national for that matter.
    Funny I've heard similar about Iran many times from many folks who had experience of the place. That it was one of the most welcoming places and culture in the region. The western(usually American) slant that they're all a bunch of mad mullahs is apparently quite wrong. Then again they have their own issues with executions and women's rights, but from what I gathered otherwise it was a nice place.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #33
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    GalwayGuy2 wrote: »
    I don't like the term backward.
    Oh I'd call them backward no problem. I don't have the cultural relativism quite a number seem to have. IMHO while no culture is perfect, some cultures are simply and objectively better than others.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #34
    Leftist
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,230 ✭✭✭Leftist


    who cares, don't go there if you don't like it, everyone knows what saudi is.


  • #35
    conorhal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭conorhal


    Leftist wrote: »
    who cares, don't go there if you don't like it, everyone knows what saudi is.

    Few of those that work as domestics have a choice, they typically come from empoverished parts of the world and arrive on the promise of a good job that will allow them to support their families back home.
    You could just as easily ask of those eastern european girls who arrive in this country only to have their passport siezed and then end up imprisoned in brothels and moved around the country with no ability to communicate what's happening to them, 'if they don't like it they shouldn't come here'...


  • #36
    GalwayGuy2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,269 ✭✭✭GalwayGuy2


    Oh I'd call them backward no problem. I don't have the cultural relativism quite a number seem to have. IMHO while no culture is perfect, some cultures are simply and objectively better than others.

    Yes, but that seems to imply that there culture is just a less civilized/developed culture than ours and to fix it we just have to apply what happened in our culture. While in reality, their culture has just developed in a different (and in some ways worse) ways than ours and in a different environment.


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  • #37
    Show Time
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,637 ✭✭✭Show Time


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    Says who?
    Lead the charge against them so my man.

    Best of luck with it.


  • #38
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,541 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    Show Time wrote: »
    Lead the charge against them so my man.

    Best of luck with it.

    Who says we must accept other peoples cultures?


  • #39
    Madam_X
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,327 ✭✭✭Madam_X


    Of course we can criticise a country in which cruelty is practised happily - take no notice of people saying we can't, just for the sake of being different.

    This describes a less extreme incident, but I still found the contempt towards the woman absolutely chilling - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=82303624&postcount=25

    The "bomb them" comments are ironic to say the least - wouldn't that just kill all the people you claim to be concerned about?


  • #40
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    GalwayGuy2 wrote: »
    Yes, but that seems to imply that there culture is just a less civilized/developed culture than ours and to fix it we just have to apply what happened in our culture.
    Well a reformation and age of enlightenment wouldn't go amiss with a fair few cultures. The ME missed out on both of them, or if they too them on board they didn't seem to stick. Iran, Iraq, Afgahnistan and a few others were less crackpot a couple of generations ago*. And yes I would say that it's a less civilised and developed culture than many out there, including our own. I'd include quite a number of traditional cultures seen as less advanced than the west in that too, but way more civilised than Saudi Arabia.



    *I would agree however that western interference buggered up progress way more than it helped, so a return to "tradition" looked like the better bet.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #41
    Death and Taxes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,775 ✭✭✭Death and Taxes


    Show Time wrote: »
    We have to respect the Saudi culture the same way the traveller way of life has to be respected.

    Only you could pervert the thread so it meets your virulent anti traveller agenda!:mad:


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  • #42
    ted1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,495 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Pretty low crime rate over there, I wouldn't knock it.


  • #43
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    ted1 wrote: »
    Pretty low crime rate over there, I wouldn't knock it.

    ...Because most of it goes on behind closed doors and unreported?


  • #44
    krudler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    ted1 wrote: »
    Pretty low crime rate over there, I wouldn't knock it.


    Probably because criminals don't last long


  • #45
    FTA69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    While we're on the subject of domestic workers it's also worth mentioning that here in Europe, many of them also face appalling conditions indeed. As a trade union organiser I work with a project currently trying to organise domestic workers in London; we also put on free classes in English, IT and Art which are all taught and run by volunteer tutors from the university and community sector. When I first started tutoring these people I knew I would encounter stories of abuse but nothing could have prepared me for some of the experiences related to me, you honestly would forget that they were working in 21st Century Britain as opposed to some feudal fiefdom. The most worrying thing was that this abuse often came at the hands of British employers (barristers, company directors etc) who were deemed pillars of society outside of the home but were abusive tyrants within in. Our classes are run on a Saturday afternoon as many of the women have to lie and say they are attending religious devotions, they would be sacked if their employer knew they were attending a trade union course.

    Some of the problems that they face are:

    -confiscation of passports
    -bullying
    -assault
    -sexual assault
    -rape
    -underpayment
    -no time off
    -threats
    -16 hour days
    -inadequate food
    -inadequate lodgings

    Some of these women have had to flee with nothing but a handful of clothes such was the abuse they were put under, finding themselves in the middle of a city they knew nothing about, with no English, no money, no friends and no family.

    http://www.j4dw.org/about

    The above link is a bit about an organisation associated with our union that advocates on behalf of domestic workers. While rightly criticising the plight of domestic workers abroad, also bear in mind that much of the same is also happening on our own doorstep.


  • #46
    Standman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,681 ✭✭✭Standman


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Funny I've heard similar about Iran many times from many folks who had experience of the place. That it was one of the most welcoming places and culture in the region. The western(usually American) slant that they're all a bunch of mad mullahs is apparently quite wrong. Then again they have their own issues with executions and women's rights, but from what I gathered otherwise it was a nice place.

    I think the issue is that people often assume the citizens of Iran are as backward as their government and laws. In reality they are very "western" like people held hostage by a minority of nutcases in government.


  • #47
    The_Kew_Tour
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 36,033 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour


    a posse ad esse wrote: »
    I had the opportunity to work in a few Middle Eastern nations and Saudi Arabia was the worst country followed by Yemen. They treat their domestic workers like sh*te and there are so many suicides and murders being posted as accidents. This is common in most of the region. Lebanon which I thought would be more civilised do not treat them any better. They are just luckier as they have a judicial system that does not do public hangings or beheadings. However the authorities do not do much about the abuse of domestic workers.

    Rape and physical abuse are quite common towards foreign domestic workers there. Unfortunately these domestic labourers are not very literate and don't know their rights. Apparently they were taught to grin and bare it from their own countries as they do not want to have a reputation as being difficult. I have heard of employers who would confiscate passports (which is illegal) once their workers arrive at the airport to make sure they don't run away. I remembered reading local papers that had images of foreign domestic labourers who gone missing and these employers posting ads who were looking for them. What makes the situation even worse for some of these labourers is that many of these nations have exit visas and if you do not have one you cannot leave the country without one.

    On another note, one of my colleagues went to do his haj in Mecca. He told me of an incident where a Bangladeshi cleaner accidently bumped into a Saudi. This colleague could not believe his eyes when he saw the Saudi literally beating the sh*te out of him even though it was obvious to everyone it was an accident which the guy apologised profusely for. They were not able to intervene, even though he and others who witnessed this were either Arabs or Europeans they had no power as they were not Saudis. So being white or Arab of another nation you have no rights and respect in that nation.

    As far as that region is concerned the country where I was suprised to see the people that were the most tolerant of foreign nationals was Iran. For the six months I was there, I did not see one Iranian being disrespectful to any south east Asian labourer or other foreign national for that matter.

    From what I have witnessed and heard from others, I could write a book on domestic labourers in that sh*tehole.

    As long as we support Saudi Arabia because of their oil this is not going to stop. They are the biggest financiers and suppliers of fundamentalists.

    Sorry for the rant!

    Iran is a freaking great country. Maybe the most underrated country in the world(press wise).

    Glad to see somebody else agree with me.:)

    EVENFLOW



  • #48
    curlzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,708 ✭✭✭curlzy


    Oh christ what did I just read? Humans are scum, we really are, wish I was a bird or whale or something else instead.


  • #49
    Zebra3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,299 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    ted1 wrote: »
    Pretty low crime rate over there, I wouldn't knock it.

    What about the fact that the Saudi royal family treats the oil wells as their own personal property to spend as they see fit?

    Living sickening wealthy lifestyles with huge numbers of women while vast numbers of males live in poverty with no hope of finding a wife due to wealthier men taking more than one.

    But I suppose that's all right cos the crime rate is low. :rolleyes:

    It won't be long til the Saudi dictators get Ceaușescud.


  • #50
    J Cheever Loophole
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 982 ✭✭✭J Cheever Loophole


    JupiterKid wrote: »
    Sri Lankans are rightly outraged by this barbaric execution.

    I feel a lot of pity for this young girl and her family. However the outrage emanating from Sri Lanka somehow rings hollow for me when considered against the massacres of civilians as witnessed in Channel 4's documentary, Sri Lanka's Killing Fields.


  • #51
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,541 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    J Cheever Loophole wrote: »
    I feel a lot of pity for this young girl and her family. However the outrage emanating from Sri Lanka somehow rings hollow for me when considered against the massacres of civilians as witnessed in Channel 4's documentary, Sri Lanka's Killing Fields.

    So because of that they have no right to be pissed off?


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  • #52
    General Zod
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,661 ✭✭✭General Zod


    We don't need to look very far when it comes to mistreatment of domestic workers

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/1218/1224327961087.html


  • #53
    Death and Taxes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,775 ✭✭✭Death and Taxes


    General Zod wrote: »
    We don't need to look very far when it comes to mistreatment of domestic workers

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/1218/1224327961087.html

    While deplorable it is hardly comparable to being routinely beaten, raped, or, as dozens are now facing, decapiation!


  • #54
    General Zod
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,661 ✭✭✭General Zod


    WileyCoyote (Accelleratii Incredibus!) wrote: »
    While deplorable it is hardly comparable to being routinely beaten, raped, or, as dozens are now facing, decapiation!
    I'm not drawing an equivalency, just that it's worth being aware of here also.


  • #55
    FTA69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    WileyCoyote (Accelleratii Incredibus!) wrote: »
    While deplorable it is hardly comparable to being routinely beaten, raped, or, as dozens are now facing, decapiation!

    Bar the execution part, the above is very frequent in western Europe as well.


  • #56
    J Cheever Loophole
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 982 ✭✭✭J Cheever Loophole


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    So because of that they have no right to be pissed off?

    Yes, yes indeed your Grace - ta very much for clarifying my position much better than I ever could.

    I love AH!! :rolleyes:


  • #57
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,541 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    J Cheever Loophole wrote: »
    Yes, yes indeed your Grace - ta very much for clarifying my position much better than I ever could.

    I love AH!! :rolleyes:

    You must, that trollop is trotted out on a regular basis.


  • #58
    J Cheever Loophole
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 982 ✭✭✭J Cheever Loophole


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    You must, that trollop is trotted out on a regular basis.

    Aye, probably right. I've found that the volume of trollop is directly related to the number of bull**** posts that make erroneous assumptions about the viewpoints of other posters.

    Go figure, eh! ;)


  • #59
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,541 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    J Cheever Loophole wrote: »
    Aye, probably right. I've found that the volume of trollop is directly related to the number of bull**** posts that make erroneous assumptions about the viewpoints of other posters.

    Go figure, eh! ;)

    Someone else made a more annoying post that mine somewhere else, you have no right to be annoyed at mine until that other one is cleared up. rolleyes etc.


  • #60
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    It won't be long til the Saudi dictators get Ceaușescud.
    I dunno, they have religion on their side, descendants of someone close to Muhammed IIRC? Plus they control most of the holiest sites of Islam which is another bargaining tool. I read somewhere they're ruffling feathers even there as they bulldozed some historically important structures.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



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  • #61
    Killer Wench
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭Killer Wench


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Funny I've heard similar about Iran many times from many folks who had experience of the place. That it was one of the most welcoming places and culture in the region. The western(usually American) slant that they're all a bunch of mad mullahs is apparently quite wrong. Then again they have their own issues with executions and women's rights, but from what I gathered otherwise it was a nice place.

    Eh not quite Many Americans realize that the Iranian people in fact like Americans. It is their unstable leadership that concerns us.


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