Self employed

Pottler · 17-01-2013 12:15AM

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

I am also self employed, very early days tho so I'm not supporting any staff yet and I commend you.

My comment was a joke (apparently a bad one), I assumed my comment was so preposterous that people would pick up that it was a joke. They didn't so I removed it so as not to cause any further offense to people like yourself.

I was making fun of the fact that Irish people have a tendency to demonise successful entrepreneurs in this country and blame them for the recession we are in now.

I took your post as a joke and thanked it, I reckoned you were ripping the pi55. I'm a very mentally tough person, pretty much case hardened at this stage, but the last two years have been very tough and pressured - an awful lot of other small-scale self employed people I knew well have fallen by the wayside, some succomed to suicide, some emigrated and others turned to drink etc. I'm a workhorse, always was, and a total survivor, but really, lately, I ask myself why the hell I accept the level of pressure and grief I accept as normal as being normal. It isn't, really. I've a PRSI bill for 17k sitting here next to me, and I'll pay it, but if I needed a safety net of welfare, I've none. Hardly fair or just, IMO.

galwayrush · 17-01-2013 12:17AM

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

I dont know how some of those fcukers sleep at night

Her guarenteed monthly salary with increments and a pension plan and a host of other benefits probably help.

dj jarvis · 17-01-2013 12:18AM

i was told by a SW counter worker that becasue i am self employed, all i am entitled to is widowers benefit and maternity benefit - as a man i was delighted.
i had just handed her 10 years of tax clearance certs , totally paid up.

i had also just told her, i had to stop work due to the massive heart attack i had had 12 day earlier. 2 kids , wife and mortgage , and told to **** off

they really are heartless bastards , and the irony is , im surrounded by family's that have never worked or contributed anything ,
i really have to ask myself , whats the point ?
no wonder people that can, are leaving

TeddyTedson · 17-01-2013 12:19AM

We've screwed our own people to save the banks.

Many people have a lot of personal debt, high mortgages, ect.
Why should we also be the ones to inherit a gigantic bank debt?

Why do self employed people not receive job seekers benefit?

I really think they need to make another tax bracket for people on over 100k.
It happened in the 80s (I forget the actually cut off point, was it about 60K?), and we're a lot worse off now.

With all this happening and many self employed struggling we have unions refusing to give an inch.

Pottler · 17-01-2013 12:20AM

galwayrush wrote: »

Her guarenteed monthly salary with increments and a pension plan and a host of other benefits probably help.

My SIL works for the state, and his life is so much easier than mine, it's like another world. Utterly. I don't resent that, I just kick myself for not taking a state job when I was younger. It is a way smarter move, tbh.

Where To · 17-01-2013 12:23AM

Pottler wrote: »

My SIL works for the state, and his life is so much easier than mine, it's like another world. Utterly.

Would you swap though? I sure as hell wouldn't, I ****ing hate routines.

SEPT 23 1989 · 17-01-2013 12:31AM

Pottler wrote: »

My SIL works for the state, and his life is so much easier than mine, it's like another world. Utterly. I don't resent that, I just kick myself for not taking a state job when I was younger. It is a way smarter move, tbh.

People like us would go insane in that system

dj jarvis · 17-01-2013 12:31AM

in Finland , they have a union for self employed people
once you sign up and pay in for 25 weeks , you can avail of help from the union

this includes 80% of your av monthly PROFIT , and while getting this, avail of 2 years up skill program to gain more work , and in turn pay back into the system

this so progressive it hurts my head - it is the way to do things.
we have a similar population - GDP is very similar , why cant we do things like this? why are we so retarded , that we cant come up with socially progressive policy's ?

Pottler · 17-01-2013 12:33AM

Where To wrote: »

Would you swap though? I sure as hell wouldn't, I ****ing hate routines.

There's the rub, I do too, but he has about the coolest job going, little/zero pressure and a great wage and lifestyle. I'm so knackered when I finally get home, there's nothing left. It used to be fun, but it got out of hand! The best joke of all is I'm really busy, really really busy, so I get to listen to every second person telling me how lucky I am and how great that is. Hmmm. I wonder how great they'd find it if they walked a mile in my shoes..

TeddyTedson · 17-01-2013 12:35AM

I often wonder when I see the likes of the front line (I try to avoid it because I'm bombarded by politics daily now it seems) do politicians actually give a **** about the people. I'd say a majority don't. Many have been involved for far too long and are rich, reluctant to take any cuts themselves and from what I gather deluded.

They're surrounded by puppets. When I see a party together celebrating or laughing and joking in the Dáil, it makes me want to puke.
I saw Pat Rabbit recently on the front line, "Very angry and upset".
He won't be winning an Oscar any time soon, that's for sure.

I'd also love to see Corporation tax go up by 1%. I'd love to know what sort of revenue that could take in. I can't envisage any companies pulling out of Ireland for such a small increase. Surely it would be bad PR on their behalf also if they were to blame it on a 1% increase. Then again I don't know the first thing about Business, I'm just giving my 2 cents worth, which is probably worth a whole lot less than I can imagine.

**** you FF, you've driven about half of my friends out of the country already with the mess you created.

tan11ie · 17-01-2013 12:38AM

dj jarvis wrote: »

i was told by a SW counter worker that becasue i am self employed, all i am entitled to is widowers benefit and maternity benefit - as a man i was delighted.
i had just handed her 10 years of tax clearance certs , totally paid up.

i had also just told her, i had to stop work due to the massive heart attack i had had 12 day earlier. 2 kids , wife and mortgage , and told to **** off
Absolute joke!

they really are heartless bastards , and the irony is , im surrounded by family's that have never worked or contributed anything ,
i really have to ask myself , whats the point ?
no wonder people that can, are leaving

I've been asking myself the same question of late, If I'd have left school at 18 and had a kid I'd have better support...and maybe a stress free life to boot.:pac:

dj jarvis · 17-01-2013 12:38AM

TeddyTedson wrote: »

I often wonder when I see the likes of the front line (I try to avoid it because I'm bombarded by politics daily now it seems) do politicians actually give a **** about the people. I'd say a majority don't. Many have been involved for far too long and are rich, reluctant to take any cuts themselves and from what I gather deluded.

They're surrounded by puppets. When I see a party together celebrating or laughing and joking in the Dáil, it makes me want to puke.
I saw Pat Rabbit recently on the front line, "Very angry and upset".
He won't be winning an Oscar any time soon, that's for sure.

I'd also love to see Corporation tax go up by 1%. I'd love to know what sort of revenue that could take in. I can't envisage any companies pulling out of Ireland for such a small increase. Surely it would be bad PR on their behalf also if they were to blame it on a 1% increase. Then again I don't know the first thing about Business, I'm just giving my 2 cents worth, which is probably worth a whole lot less than I can imagine.

**** you FF, you've driven about half of my friends out of the country already with the mess you created.

+1

how in gods name are those gangsters going up in the polls ?
that is why we cant get ahead , we have a electorate, that in fairness a good lot of them should not be allowed drive , let alone vote

uberalles · 17-01-2013 12:40AM

Does Ireland treat its self employed the worst in Europe?
How do other countries compare ?

Doc Ruby · 17-01-2013 12:41AM

Pottler wrote: »

- an awful lot of other small-scale self employed people I knew well have fallen by the wayside, some succomed to suicide, some emigrated and others turned to drink etc.

I've seen all of these recently among the self employed.

dj jarvis · 17-01-2013 12:43AM

[QUOTE=Doc Ruby;82728745]I've seen all of these recently among the self employed.[/QUOTE]

apparently , we are living the dream

Tiddlypeeps · 17-01-2013 12:48AM

TeddyTedson wrote: »

I often wonder when I see the likes of the front line (I try to avoid it because I'm bombarded by politics daily now it seems) do politicians actually give a **** about the people. I'd say a majority don't. Many have been involved for far too long and are rich, reluctant to take any cuts themselves and from what I gather deluded.

They're surrounded by puppets. When I see a party together celebrating or laughing and joking in the Dáil, it makes me want to puke.
I saw Pat Rabbit recently on the front line, "Very angry and upset".
He won't be winning an Oscar any time soon, that's for sure.

I'd also love to see Corporation tax go up by 1%. I'd love to know what sort of revenue that could take in. I can't envisage any companies pulling out of Ireland for such a small increase. Surely it would be bad PR on their behalf also if they were to blame it on a 1% increase. Then again I don't know the first thing about Business, I'm just giving my 2 cents worth, which is probably worth a whole lot less than I can imagine.

**** you FF, you've driven about half of my friends out of the country already with the mess you created.

Our corporation tax is the ONLY reason a lot of big multinational companies are here. We would lose more than we stand to gain from increasing corporation tax.

With just a 1% increase it would still leave our corporation tax at a very attractive number but it sends a bad message to multinational companies that are here and ones that are looking at Ireland and considering setting up shop here. The fact we haven't touched it so far despite the economic downturn sends a strong message that we aren't going to anytime soon. So it makes the decisions for multinationals to investment in employment and infrastructure over here so much easier, because there is little fear that tax will increase and they will have to pull out any time soon.

dj jarvis · 17-01-2013 12:52AM

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

Our corporation tax is the ONLY reason a lot of big multinational companies are here. We would lose more than we stand to gain from increasing corporation tax.

With just a 1% increase it would still leave our corporation tax at a very attractive number but it sends a bad message to multinational companies that are here and ones that are looking at Ireland and considering setting up shop here. The fact we haven't touched it so far despite the economic downturn sends a strong message that we aren't going to anytime soon. So it makes the decisions for multinationals to investment in employment and infrastructure over here so much easier, because there is little fear that tax will increase and they will have to pull out any time soon.

i see the propaganda is working well on you - France has a true rate of 6% , they dont get anywhere near our FDI , we speak English , in the euro and can work without striking ever ten minutes , that is it

they are going nowhere anytime soon - its the home grown that are being slaughtered

Pottler · 17-01-2013 12:54AM

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

Our corporation tax is the ONLY reason a lot of big multinational companies are here. We would lose more than we stand to gain from increasing corporation tax.

With just a 1% increase it would still leave our corporation tax at a very attractive number but it sends a bad message to multinational companies that are here and ones that are looking at Ireland and considering setting up shop here. The fact we haven't touched it so far despite the economic downturn sends a strong message that we aren't going to anytime soon. So it makes the decisions for multinationals to investment in employment and infrastructure over here so much easier, because there is little fear that tax will increase and they will have to pull out any time soon.

Ok, so your first post, I took as a joke.

mickdw · 17-01-2013 01:06AM

If a self employed person takes up paye job, how long until they are considered to qualify for welfare?
Im self employed and work is pretty slow for last couple of years.

Tiddlypeeps · 17-01-2013 01:08AM

dj jarvis wrote: »

i see the propaganda is working well on you - France has a true rate of 6% , they dont get anywhere near our FDI , we speak English , in the euro and can work without striking ever ten minutes , that is it

they are going nowhere anytime soon - its the home grown that are being slaughtered

I have no idea what you mean by true rate? Frances corporation tax rate is 33%. If it's actually 6% then they should do a better job of advertising that.

I'm not basing my opinion on propaganda. My business is in the games sector where the IDA are very active in trying to encourage companies to come over here to set up. I try to keep an eye on the companies that do make the move and their motives. EA in galway for example are a call center for their star wars MMO, the main skills they need from their workforce are foreign languages. They could get that in most European countries and probably better than here to boot. The only reason they are here is the tax rate. No other reason makes sense.

For games companies that do actual development work we have a skilled workforce, but the UK is much more suited to actual development. The only reason to choose Ireland over the UK for that type of work is the tax rate.

Homegrown companies benefit from corporation tax too so I'm not entirely sure what relevance that last comment has to it. Unless it was unrelated.

Tasden · 17-01-2013 01:10AM

dj jarvis wrote: »

they really are heartless bastards , and the irony is , im surrounded by family's that have never worked or contributed anything ,
i really have to ask myself , whats the point ?
no wonder people that can, are leaving

They're doing their job. Its not like they personally pick and choose who gets what, they tick the boxes and follow rules they are given. And you may think you'd have to be heartless to choose to do a job like that but 1) someone has to do it 2) they have a family to feed just like you and 3) for every genuine person they turn away they will award a payment to genuine families that deserve it too and they actually do want to help people in that way. And you might say "not everyone they give it to is genuine" but that just proves why they have to be so stringent in assessing people regardless of how unfair it can be at times, especially if you personally don't fit the criteria.

Also, yes sometimes the people at the desk can be defensive and abrupt from the get go but when they hear personal comments like that from members of the public day in day out when they are only going their job is it any wonder really.

And no i don't work there.

Tiddlypeeps · 17-01-2013 01:14AM

Pottler wrote: »

If you are Irish, politically unconnected, and you go to the Irish Dicks Association for support, you'll get a polite bums rush, no matter how real or good your idea. I toddled in with an idea that would turn over 12 million a year and employ 30 people, solid, real and simple, written out in black and white, every figure verified. I got a polite thanks and a coffee, followed by the door and silence. Fcuk em, I'll do it myself anyway, but if you're ordinary Irish, you're dirt to them, IMO. Same goes when you fail, you're only dirt.

The IDA don't deal with Irish companies. It's in the name International Development Association, so I'm not surprised they were unable to help you.

Enterprise Ireland are what you are looking for if you are export driven. CEB's if you are not.

Also if you could genuinely verify that you can turn over 12 million a year then and venture capitalist in the country would jump at the opportunity. If they weren't biting then your idea might not have been as great as you thought it was.

Pottler · 17-01-2013 01:26AM

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

The IDA don't deal with Irish companies. It's in the name International Development Association, so I'm not surprised they were unable to help you.

Enterprise Ireland are what you are looking for if you are export driven. CEB's if you are not.

Also if you could genuinely verify that you can turn over 12 million a year then and venture capitalist in the country would jump at the opportunity. If they weren't biting then your idea might not have been as great as you thought it was.

I've sat in every posh hotel in Ireland with un-solicited Venture capatalists offering me funding for 60%. If i wanted a job, I'd get one. 40% is to me, a job. Idea is happening anyway, regardless of funding, so maybe it is every bit as great as I thought. I am anything but a dreamer, that bit got knocked out of me years ago. probably why I'm still self-employed and busy.

Greyian · 17-01-2013 01:32AM

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

The IDA don't deal with Irish companies. It's in the name International Development Association, so I'm not surprised they were unable to help you.

Enterprise Ireland are what you are looking for if you are export driven. CEB's if you are not.

Also if you could genuinely verify that you can turn over 12 million a year then and venture capitalist in the country would jump at the opportunity. If they weren't biting then your idea might not have been as great as you thought it was.

Assuming you're talking about IDA Ireland
"Ireland’s inward investment promotion agency, IDA Ireland (Industrial Development Agency)" (http://www.idaireland.com/ida-ireland/)

It's a bit rich to suggest its clear from the name that it wasn't the correct organisation to approach. Also, if you're that far off on the name, can you really be totally sure that you know what it is that they do?

Tiddlypeeps · 17-01-2013 01:34AM

Pottler wrote: »

I've sat in every posh hotel in Ireland with un-solicited Venture capatalists offering me funding for 60%. If i wanted a job, I'd get one. 40% is to me, a job. Idea is happening anyway, regardless of funding, so maybe it is every bit as great as I thought. I am anything but a dreamer, that bit got knocked out of me years ago. probably why I'm still self-employed and busy.

60% equity on 12 million a year turn over?! How much were you looking to raise?!

I assume that 12 million was estimated to be in year 5 of your financials, based on that you must have been looking for about 2 million to be quoted 60% equity.

Tiddlypeeps · 17-01-2013 01:41AM

Greyian wrote: »

Assuming you're talking about IDA Ireland
"Ireland’s inward investment promotion agency, IDA Ireland (Industrial Development Agency)" (http://www.idaireland.com/ida-ireland/)

It's a bit rich to suggest its clear from the name that it wasn't the correct organisation to approach. Also, if you're that far off on the name, can you really be totally sure that you know what it is that they do?

Whoops, my bad >_<

They don't typically deal with Irish clients tho. They might make exceptions if there is some link to an international company, I don't know if there are any loop holes that might be there, but typically anyway they deal with international clients.

imnothim · 17-01-2013 09:46AM

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

LOL! It was a joke ffs. Just making light of the fact that Irish people have this lovely view of up and coming entrepreneurs, but anybody that has made their wealth is seen as the source of all that is wrong with this country.

"it was meant as a joke" - oldest trick in the book

Death and Taxes · 17-01-2013 10:00AM

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

The IDA don't deal with Irish companies. It's in the name International Development Association, so I'm not surprised they were unable to help you.

Enterprise Ireland are what you are looking for if you are export driven. CEB's if you are not.

Also if you could genuinely verify that you can turn over 12 million a year then and venture capitalist in the country would jump at the opportunity. If they weren't biting then your idea might not have been as great as you thought it was.

Actually AFIK IDA stands for Industrial Development Authority!

fasttalkerchat · 17-01-2013 10:08AM

****! Lads, I just realised. I've been doing some work as a self employed contractor... basically a consultant to retail. Decent money but no guaranteed work. €50 per hour but maybe 5 hours a month. I'm a student so it suits me.
I was about to register as self employed... if I do that does it mean I can't get benefits later should I need it?

Tazz T · 17-01-2013 10:08AM

And the government doubles PRSI for the self-employed in the recent budget:

Earn just €5000 and you have to hand €500 of it over, for which you get no benefits.

Unreal!

I wish I'd never become self-employed. When I ran into severe financial difficulties a few years back I couldn't get any help. And when things have gone well and I've needed help, I'd never consider hiring staff. Just isn't worth the extra hassle and costs. Just subcontract to another sole trader.

Plenty of incentive and government support for starting your own business and creating jobs there. :cool:

Self employed

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