David McKittrick; These protests are NOT over the flag.

Jelle1880 · 13-01-2013 01:49AM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Rewind it to about 8 minutes. It's like it's snowing halfers.

I'm talking about Hutchinson and the people next to him, obviously.

blahfckingblah · 13-01-2013 01:51AM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

I'm talking about Hutchinson and the people next to him, obviously.

clearly just happened upon the social unrest did they? you are either really naive or sympathetic

Cavehill Red · 13-01-2013 01:52AM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

I'm talking about Hutchinson and the people next to him, obviously.

I didn't say they were throwing bricks. But clearly they were able to influence those who were to stop and start at will.

Cavehill Red · 13-01-2013 01:53AM

junder wrote: »

So you know who's who in the UVF?

I'm confident in stating that Billy was accompanied by senior UVF figures in that clip, yes.

maccored · 13-01-2013 01:56AM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

I'm talking about Hutchinson and the people next to him, obviously.

i think he's psychic as he just knew when the stones and bottles would stop flying.

junder · 13-01-2013 02:00AM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

I'm confident in stating that Billy was accompanied by senior UVF figures in that clip, yes.

If can identify UVF members then you should pass that sort of info to the police

Jelle1880 · 13-01-2013 02:01AM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

I didn't say they were throwing bricks. But clearly they were able to influence those who were to stop and start at will.

Possibly, but maybe because Hutchinson is no doubt a known face in the area.

Public faces turning up at these things do tend to calm things down (or worsen them in some cases).
To me this doesn't show some behind-the-scenes orchestration by the UVF.

Cavehill Red · 13-01-2013 02:01AM

junder wrote: »

If can identify UVF members then you should pass that sort of info to the police

The PSNI are well aware of the identities of the UVF leadership, as they are of the leadership of all paramilitary organisations.

Jelle1880 · 13-01-2013 02:06AM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

The PSNI are well aware of the identities of the UVF leadership, as they are of the leadership of all paramilitary organisations.

So if the people next to Hutchinson were UVF members, why not arrest them on the spot ?

karma_ · 13-01-2013 02:08AM

junder wrote: »

If can identify UVF members then you should pass that sort of info to the police

You can find pictures of them yourself every weekend in the Sunday World.

karma_ · 13-01-2013 02:08AM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

So if the people next to Hutchinson were UVF members, why not arrest them on the spot ?

It's like a dirty open secret here in the North. I guess you'd need to live here for a while.

Cavehill Red · 13-01-2013 02:20AM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Possibly, but maybe because Hutchinson is no doubt a known face in the area.

Public faces turning up at these things do tend to calm things down (or worsen them in some cases).
To me this doesn't show some behind-the-scenes orchestration by the UVF.

The UVF are all over this, albeit as you accurately stated not in every area. For Billy Hutchison and senior UVF personnel to interrupt rioting and go to request a parlay with the PSNI indicates that clearer than even a statement would.

blahfckingblah · 13-01-2013 02:28AM

junder wrote: »

If can identify UVF members then you should pass that sort of info to the police

they know after all they did release the statement saying the UVF were involved, it you who seems to struggle with the fact

junder · 13-01-2013 02:33AM

blahfckingblah wrote: »

they know after all they did release the statement saying the UVF were involved, it you who seems to struggle with the fact

I go by what mat baggot said, but I will bow to the obviously superior knowledge of boards.ie of who's who in the UVF

Cavehill Red · 13-01-2013 02:37AM

junder wrote: »

I go by what mat baggot said, but I will bow to the obviously superior knowledge of boards.ie of who's who in the UVF

Or you could go by what the PSNI said.

junder · 13-01-2013 02:55AM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Or you could go by what the PSNI said.

My bad, I thought matt baggot was in the Psni. And here was me thinking he was the Psni boss

Cavehill Red · 13-01-2013 02:57AM

junder wrote: »

My bad, I thought matt baggot was in the Psni. And here was me thinking he was the Psni boss

I'm embarrassed for you -

http://www.u.tv/News/UVF-members-behind-flag-trouble/88468242-4c5a-4e07-a3c4-3dba8ad46ed4

Cavehill Red · 13-01-2013 03:01AM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

So if the people next to Hutchinson were UVF members, why not arrest them on the spot ?

Why don't they arrest Martin McGuinness while they're at it? He's a confirmed PIRA member. The answer is because such people are engaged in the political process. With McGuinness, he's come in from the cold and it would destabilise the political structures to arrest him. With the UVF leadership, the PSNI are aware that to lift them off the streets would similarly destabilise those parts of the city which are held under their thrall.
From my perspective, I'd be happy to see the PSNI arrest them. I think they're dinosaurs who failed politically and have now reverted to their habitual barbarism, and that it would benefit the rest of us to see them all behind bars.
Perhaps the PSNI are waiting to see what the historical cases unit turns up so as to throw the book at them. One can always hope.

junder · 13-01-2013 03:02AM

Cavehill Red wrote: »

I'm embarrassed for you -

http://www.u.tv/News/UVF-members-behind-flag-trouble/88468242-4c5a-4e07-a3c4-3dba8ad46ed4

Perhaps you should read the articule in full, since he reiterates what he previously said in that there are elements of the UVF involved namely east Belfast. He still had not said that the UVF are involved and that what UVF is involved are local to east Belfast and not directed from the central UVF leadership, perhaps this is why the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland still believes THE UVF's ceasefire intact

Cavehill Red · 13-01-2013 03:05AM

junder wrote: »

Perhaps you should read the articule in full, since he reiterates what he previously said in that there are elements of the UVF involved namely east Belfast. He still had not said that the UVF are involved and that what UVF is involved are local to east Belfast and not directed from the central UVF leadership, perhaps this is why the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland still believes THE UVF's ceasefire intact

Are we reading the same article? Allow me to quote: Mr Baggott said: "Senior members of the UVF in east Belfast as individuals have been increasingly orchestrating some of this violence.
"That is utterly unacceptable and is being done for their own selfish motives."

blahfckingblah · 13-01-2013 05:47PM

what time is kickoff tonight?

SoulandForm · 13-01-2013 07:49PM

Junder is what you are hoping for re-partition along sectarian lines?

GRMA · 13-01-2013 08:30PM

Its amazing that a member of the security forces can be even ambivalent (I'm feeling generous today) about these protests given the large amount of injured PSNI officers and attempted murders of other officers

SoulandForm · 13-01-2013 08:39PM

GRMA wrote: »

Its amazing that a member of the security forces can be even ambivalent (I'm feeling generous today) about these protests given the large amount of injured PSNI officers and attempted murders of other officers

In fairness we are talking about a member of the Army and not the PSNI.

The British Army is a singular institution.

In the 1970s the hope was for a right wing coup ( which when you consider http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Column_88 which was tied into the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio which carried out massive terrorist attacks in Italy as part of a "strategy of tension was a possibility) that would "deal" with the problems of Northern Ireland with maximum force and minimum concern for human life, at least if it was fenian, among hardline Loyalists.

These days that happening is highly unlikely. What is it that Junder and his friend organizing these protests hopes for now?

junder · 13-01-2013 09:25PM

GRMA wrote: »

Its amazing that a member of the security forces can be even ambivalent (I'm feeling generous today) about these protests given the large amount of injured PSNI officers and attempted murders of other officers

I am TA solider which means part time, I am a full time civilian and while I have not personally taken part In anybprotests I still support my community's right to peaceful protest, which is exactly what has been happening in the community I live in. I do don't live, nor am I part of anything that is going on in east Belfast.

GRMA · 13-01-2013 09:28PM

junder wrote: »

I am TA solider which means part time, I am a full time civilian and while I have not personally taken part In anybprotests I still support my community's right to peaceful protest, which is exactly what has been happening in the community I live in. I do don't live, nor am I part of anything that is going on in east Belfast.

Since the loyalist community have proven themselves incapable of having peaceful protests over the course of the last month and longer on this topic all protests should be cancelled so things can calm down before someone gets killed

Dont you agree?

blahfckingblah · 13-01-2013 09:32PM

junder wrote: »

I am TA solider which means part time, I am a full time civilian and while I have not personally taken part In anybprotests I still support my community's right to peaceful protest, which is exactly what has been happening in the community I live in. I do don't live, nor am I part of anything that is going on in east Belfast.

i also support your communities right to peaceful protest, however...

junder · 13-01-2013 09:43PM

GRMA wrote: »

Since the loyalist community have proven themselves incapable of having peaceful protests over the course of the last month and longer on this topic all protests should be cancelled so things can calm down before someone gets killed

Dont you agree?

No I don't. I do however believe that other community's should follow my areas example and maintain good relations with the police facilitating the protests and keep the protest entirely peaceful.

sure joe · 13-01-2013 09:44PM

junder wrote: »

I am TA solider which means part time, I am a full time civilian and while I have not personally taken part In anybprotests I still support my community's right to peaceful protest, which is exactly what has been happening in the community I live in. I do don't live, nor am I part of anything that is going on in east Belfast.

so presumably you would support residents rights to block roads to prevent bigoted organisations like the orange order marching through nationalist areas

GRMA · 13-01-2013 09:45PM

junder wrote: »

No I don't. I do however believe that other community's should follow my areas example and maintain good relations with the police facilitating the protests and keep the protest entirely peaceful.

These are illegal protests.

You support illegal protests?

David McKittrick; These protests are NOT over the flag.

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