Unemployed boardies would you actually work in aldi/lidi or factory for minimum wage

UCDVet · 12-01-2013 09:51PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

Cloud cuckoo land has a special happy place for people that think like you! :pac:

You're stopped in your tracks before you even begin because the social welfare will not pay for your education. You will get the back to education allowance at best.

When you start your business you would be getting a back to work enterprise allowance. Nothing to write home about either.

You will receive no rent allowance when you are on either of these payments.

There's no "probably" about it if you're already thinking about going into business with the idea of failure in mind.

If you go into an interview and tell them what you just put down there, don't be surprised if they bin your CV and tell you "GTFO, Chancer!".

In five years time if you're still on social welfare you'll have no money in the bank, and you'll be a mere shell of your former enthusiastic and dreamy self.

In short- Don't bother wasting your time trying to "beat the system", better wasters than you have tried, and they think they're so clever, but the only person they're fooling is themselves, and trust me- they really aren't "better people for it".

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree.

I wouldn't get the back to education allowance because I wouldn't mention my education; besides it's a non-Irish/non-EU university that I'm pretty sure wouldn't be eligible anyway.
My 'business' wouldn't start until I was done with the dole. I'd spend my free time developing the software I intend to sell.

As far as anyone is concerned, I'd be a job seeker trying to get back on his feet.

Czarcasm · 12-01-2013 10:00PM

UCDVet wrote: »

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree.

I wouldn't get the back to education allowance because I wouldn't mention my education; besides it's a non-Irish/non-EU university that I'm pretty sure wouldn't be eligible anyway.
My 'business' wouldn't start until I was done with the dole. I'd spend my free time developing the software I intend to sell.

As far as anyone is concerned, I'd be a job seeker trying to get back on his feet.

Eesh, OK UCDVet, when nobody else could, you seem to have cracked it.

If only the world was as clever as you.

Mince Pie · 12-01-2013 10:00PM

CommanderC wrote: »

I do it. Hours can be a bit strange but apart from that it's ok. We haven't had one Irish person hand in a CV in the last 6 months though.

I'd take any job I could get right now, Aldi, Lidl, Factory and Hotel. Any jobs going??

UCDVet · 12-01-2013 10:05PM

Czarcasm wrote: »

Eesh, OK UCDVet, when nobody else could, you seem to have cracked it.

If only the world was as clever as you.

I think you're drastically underestimating how clever people are....

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/burton-up-to-43000-suspected-of-dole-fraud-161514.html

NEARLY 43,000 dole recipients could be abusing the social welfare system

If 43,000 people can do it, I figure I've got a chance.

And, while I admit, I don't know all the details - there have been enough successful artists who created something while on the dole (exactly what I'm talking about doing) that people are calling it the other Arts Concil.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2012/0804/1224321418501.html

Generations of musicians, artists, film-makers, actors and writers – including this journalist, in a former life as a musician – have spent time working on their art unpaid and with the help of the Department of Social Protection

woodoo · 12-01-2013 10:22PM

What is it they say... minimum wage minimum effort.

Czarcasm · 12-01-2013 10:27PM

UCDVet wrote: »

I think you're drastically underestimating how clever people are....

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/burton-up-to-43000-suspected-of-dole-fraud-161514.html

If 43,000 people can do it, I figure I've got a chance.

Well you're off to a great start in your master plan by admitting on the internet that you plan to commit social welfare fraud. That's hardly very clever, is it?

I figure you've got every chance of being one of the 3% that commit social welfare fraud, but from your own link-

Under a tougher system rolled out in April, dole claimants who fail to take up work or training opportunities can have their pay cut. Figures show 55 people, mostly Irish, had claims cut up until July 8. More cuts in the coming months are expected.

I don't know how that's going to square with your plan for your overseas education, not to mention the numerous businesses you plan to start off the books that you won't be able to mention in an interview.

That's not to mention the fact you'll always be looking over your shoulder, unable to promote your business, and certainly unable to get funding for your business.

You haven't thought this plan through very clearly.

Holsten · 12-01-2013 10:28PM

Yeah I would. These type of jobs are soul destroying though I'd want to get out asap.

If they pay the bills I'd do it if I was stuck.

Call Me Jimmy · 12-01-2013 10:38PM

I am about to graduate from college (well if i don't **** it up) this summer and the I am very seriously considering taking a job on a farm of a guy we know, as in the lowest rung on the ladder of farm employment.

Pros
No commute (physically and no associated financial loss)
Outdoor work (so the passing of a day doesn't just happen without you realising it
Exercise (Essentially being payed to do activities that people pay for in the gym)
Lack of Responsibility (needs no explanation)
General lower mental stress (allowing my mind, if not my body, to be free to engage in other things)
Keeps me away from browsing boards (in my last office job that happened a bit)

Cons
Low pay (who the **** cares)
Physically demanding (very, but will not come without its benefits, and I don't think I'll have a problem sleeping. My mind also will NEVER be racing in anticipation of some crap in the office)
Lack of Opportunity (not much promotion opportunities, but I am actively avoiding those so that is a 'pro' in my book)

I wouldn't work in aldi or lidl because I don't like bright shop lights. I wouldn't work in a warehouse because it would be kind of like an office job with a bit more manual labour.

franktheplank · 12-01-2013 10:42PM

For what it's worth i've done my time in minimum wage jobs and on the dole. That said I think there are two important issues often forgotten in dole debates.

Firstly, no dole = massive social unrest. The most significant reason the dole came into existence in place of the previous poor house/mass poverty system was the curb the rise of political extremism. I think if you look at the history of 20th century European politics post, you'd have to agree it's been successful.

Secondly, no dole = poorer middle class. Rich people will get richer (to a point) but the middle class are now susceptible to far greater economic competition, with much less protection.

I would agree that the problem of long-term unemployment is significant for society and also for the long-term unemployed (Try driving into you're local ghetto estate and see what the living condition are like). I still think the welfare state is the best system we have at present.

Paddy Cow · 12-01-2013 10:42PM

UCDVet wrote: »

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree.

I wouldn't get the back to education allowance because I wouldn't mention my education; besides it's a non-Irish/non-EU university that I'm pretty sure wouldn't be eligible anyway.
My 'business' wouldn't start until I was done with the dole. I'd spend my free time developing the software I intend to sell.

As far as anyone is concerned, I'd be a job seeker trying to get back on his feet.

I honestly cannot make head nor tail of what you are talking about

In this post you say that your business wouldn't start until you are done with the dole but in your first post you say

I don't know the details of the dole or how long I could stay on it; but let's say I take 2-3 years. I'd have more freetime, be way happier, finish my education, and be able to go to a job interview and talk about my experience starting my own company and the skillset I've built. If they ask why I'm not continuing with my business, I'll say that 'While I absolutely believe in the long-term viability of my company, my wife and I are at a point in our lives where we want to have a family and the short-term ups and downs of a start-up aren't what we're looking for.'

What I got from that was by the time you had finished with the dole you would be doing interviews looking for paid employment.

What are you talking about? Are you going to spend your dole time finishing your education, finding yourself and mucking about with a business idea that in your own words "PROBABLY wouldn't really work out" and which you will jack in anyway to get a job?

ETA: If you tell any prospective employer that you gave up a viable business to start a family with your wife, they are probably going to think that you will want paternity leave, days off for the doctor, can't work flexible shifts and will generally be unreliable. Employers aren't supposed to ask if you have children or are planning a family but if they do, the correct answer is something along the lines of "yes I have X amount of children. My wife is a stay at home mother and we have a large support network of family and friends on hand to help out". This reassures your employer that you are looking for a job and not just a paycheck. The more I read your posts, the more hair brained they seem. Sorry.

fathead82 · 12-01-2013 10:43PM

I work in a factory & earn only €50 a week less than a friend who has a degree. The work can be hard but a 12 hour shift flies & we all have a good laugh. Its no picnic but I would'nt call it soul destroying

Paddy Cow · 12-01-2013 10:49PM

franktheplank wrote: »

For what it's worth i've done my time in minimum wage jobs and on the dole. That said I think there are two important issues often forgotten in dole debates.

Firstly, no dole = massive social unrest. The most significant reason the dole came into existence in place of the previous poor house/mass poverty system was the curb the rise of political extremism. I think if you look at the history of 20th century European politics post, you'd have to agree it's been successful.

Secondly, no dole = poorer middle class. Rich people will get richer (to a point) but the middle class are now susceptible to far greater economic competition, with much less protection.

I would agree that the problem of long-term unemployment is significant for society and also for the long-term unemployed (Try driving into you're local ghetto estate and see what the living condition are like). I still think the welfare state is the best system we have at present.

I agree 100%. Unless we start rebuilding work houses, what are we supposed to do with unemployed people? I know a small portion of society will spend their whole lives playing the system but that's a very sad ambition to have in life.

The two problems I have with the welfare system are that there isn't that much of a leap in earnings from someone on benefits to someone working minimum wage. I don't know where the money would come from but even giving minimum wage people a partial medical card would help not just them financially but also encourage those who are afraid of losing it to go and get a low paid job.

The other one is the university fees system. Probably gonna be a touchy subject but either it's free for all or no one. A loan type system where you pay it back after you graduate would be the fairest all round. This way everyone can still avail of a third level education but having to pay back the money would hopefully make people think really hard about whether they need this degree for their chosen career or if they are only do a degree to "experience college". I know the biggest argument against this is that third level institutes will increase their fees but they're gonna do that anyway.

UCDVet · 12-01-2013 11:17PM

Paddy Cow wrote: »

I honestly cannot make head nor tail of what you are talking about In this post you say that your business wouldn't start until you are done with the dole but in your first post you say

What I got from that was by the time you had finished with the dole you would be doing interviews looking for paid employment.

What are you talking about? Are you going to spend your dole time finishing your education, finding yourself and mucking about with a business idea that in your own words "PROBABLY wouldn't really work out" and which you will jack in anyway to get a job?

I'm a full-time Software Engineer.
I'm also a graduate student.

Between my 45 hours at the office each week, my commute, and my family - I manage to take *one* class per semester. I also have very little free time for other hobbies or activities. When class is in session, I work, I go to school, and I sleep. It's a bleak life. At my current rate, it'll be over another year to complete my degree.

If I were not working full-time; I could take many classes. I would be able to finish my education in ONE semester. And, still have time to spare to work on software-related things that would help advance my career and that could possibly translate into a viable business.

When I had more free-time, before I started working full-time; I'd written a series of different applications and websites. Each one was progressively better and more successful. Eventually, I tried selling an software online. My first go, netted me about 20 euro. Not a big deal.

The last attempt, before I started my job, is a free (ad supported) application. It's had just over 50k downloads and it generates about 40 euro for me each month. I spent two weekends writing it, a bunch of years ago, and it's more popular now than it was then.

40 euro per month isn't anything to speak of. But the experience I got, and the ability to speak intelligently about what I made, what it does, the technical challenges are what got me my first job.

When you work in software, for most developers, you get paid to produce things of value to the business. If you work with technology X, that's all you work with. You probably don't even work with the latest version of X - you use whatever the company started using when they started the project. After a while, you don't really get 'better' at using X, you spend more time working on the business side of things. The company specific domain.

If you want to learn more, you need to do it on your own time. If you want to get a new job doing Y - you need to show them you know a lot about Y and that you can make great things with Y. It's really hard to do when you spend all your time at work doing work with X.

If I were not working, I'd quickly finish school, spend time learning Y and Z and start on my list (I have a written list) of software projects I've always wanted to write, but haven't had the time. I believe they'd be more popular than my past work - but they will take more time.

A project that would take me six months to write while unemployed; would take me THREE YEARS to finish while employed - and I'd be miserable the entire time; spending every free minute working on some side project.

Arguably, in a year of doing 'my own thing' I'd gain 6 years of experience. That's probably a bit of stretch, but I'd be able to learn, build a portfolio of work, and possibly be able to sell my software online.

Most sites (at least Google Adsense and Google Checkout) will even let you accrue your money. I could spend 2-3 years letting Google 'owe' me until I request a payout, when I'm ready to go off the dole. Or I can simply not sell any of my software until I'm off the dole. Either way, if you have something that is popular, a website, a phone app, a game - it's worth month. If it's popular enough, it's worth a lot of money.

I truly think I'd be a better software engineer, happier, and more employable in three years if I quit my job now. But I don't think I can afford to do that. The dole would be enough of a safety net for me to say, 'What the hell'. If I could get it.

franktheplank · 12-01-2013 11:19PM

Paddy Cow wrote: »

The other one is the university fees system. Probably gonna be a touchy subject but either it's free for all or no one. A loan type system where you pay it back after you graduate would be the fairest all round. This way everyone can still avail of a third level education but having to pay back the money would hopefully make people think really hard about whether they need this degree for their chosen career or if they are only do a degree to "experience college". I know the biggest argument against this is that third level institutes will increase their fees but they're gonna do that anyway.

I think it's a tricky situation but one thing that shouldn't be overlooked is how expensive Irish universities are to run. Very high salaries and from what I can see an awful lot of unnecessary administration (like a lot of the public service I suppose!)

Yes it's no harm for people to contribute in some way towards the cost of their education and certainly bringing some competition mechanisms to the 3rd level market would do no harm. On the other hand, it's good for people to be able to reskill in a changing labour market. I'm currently doing a springboard course in Computer programming, which is one year long (none of the filler that was in my undergraduate degree!) and is meeting a market need.

The_Gatsby · 12-01-2013 11:49PM

KPMG pays €10 and it's supposed to be a great laugh

Eden3 · 12-01-2013 11:55PM

ThreeLineWhip wrote: »

The problem is that for many unemployed it is actually better financially to mooch off the state. €188 a week, rent allowance, medical card etc.

Not many will give that up for a min wage job that at the end of the week only has you €50 better off than welfare with the loss of benefits.

So true! My son is lucky to have a job - his boss asked him a few weeks ago if he had any friend who might want some work for a few days (maybe more). He called a pal who's been on social welfare for years - since he left school at 16 (Youth Reach Programme and then the "Dole").

This pal worked with my son for one day. After, the boss said he'd a few more days work for the guy and maybe more, but no surprise .... the opportunity didn't appeal to him (and hard work didn't agree with him) .... so he didn't take the opportunity handed to him (of maybe a full-time job)! And here lies the problem in Ireland at present:(

And the problem is complacency - people get used to living on a certain

Eden3 · 12-01-2013 11:56PM

... income handed to them by the State!

Czarcasm · 12-01-2013 11:57PM

UCDVet wrote: »

I'm a full-time Software Engineer.
I'm also a graduate student...

...I truly think I'd be a better software engineer, happier, and more employable in three years if I quit my job now. But I don't think I can afford to do that. The dole would be enough of a safety net for me to say, 'What the hell'. If I could get it.

I'm not going to quote the whole post UCD but I'm a software engineer myself with 25 years experience, now self-employed as a freelance IT Consultant. So I understand where you're coming from, and I understand where you want to go, but me personally I wouldn't concentrate solely on the apps market if I was you.

I'd also recommend you do a business degree course and an HRM degree course. This would give you a good starter foundation in running your own business SUCCESSFULLY.

There's lots more I couldn't possibly go into here in one post but you really, I mean REALLY do need to do your homework before you'd even begin to think seriously about leaving your current employment to become self employed.

Mickey H · 12-01-2013 11:58PM

sfwcork wrote: »

Reason i picked above is because aldi/lidi seemed to be depressing and a factory can be tough work

Work is work. Simple as. So to answer the original question, yes I would.

wardy2 · 13-01-2013 12:03AM

heard full time staff are on like 11 euro and older staff are 14 euro an hour ,but its hard work on the shop floor

ShadowHearth · 13-01-2013 12:26AM

I got job at the moment and I would gladly work for lidl or aldi.

FixdePitchmark · 13-01-2013 12:27AM

wardy2 wrote: »

heard full time staff are on like 11 euro and older staff are 14 euro an hour ,but its hard work on the shop floor

That is awful wages for a company of that size and reputation.

bodice ripper · 13-01-2013 12:32AM

UCDVet wrote: »

I truly think I'd be a better software engineer, happier, and more employable in three years if I quit my job now. But I don't think I can afford to do that. The dole would be enough of a safety net for me to say, 'What the hell'. If I could get it.

or, you could actually grain experience in the workplace build a portfolio based on actual experience rather that the musings of some unknown class, doubtless a major centre of excellence. build a network of working enginers and related business contacts, rather than one with a handful of foreign nationals who are taking a class hoping to get work. Start building your career now and make money, rather than lose 3 years of working to spend some time chilling, earning a bit of paper no one is interested in, Scamming the dole and futzing around with product design in your gaff.

Then, when you are ready, ireland will have that much needed entreupenier to set up his own business, based on three years of the dole and a class. there's a winning formula that has worked so well for so many. thank god you can you can collect dole, since the class is off the radar. those are always great, right.

Ireland needs more young, inexperienced people to claim the dole for three years and set up their own business rather than have to work for someone else. Those guys are the backbone of the irish country.

you have vison

monkeysnapper · 13-01-2013 12:46AM

Ok let's get over a myth here, I work for aldi and in all our local stores there's as much Irish people working there as any other nationality.

I've worked in a few different jobs and I feel aldi are a fair employer. There very consistent and treat their staff pretty well in my opinion.

Yes the work is hard but there's loads of jobs out there you could say the same. I've a few friends who work in petrol stations and centra,s and they get treated like muck .dont get breaks like they should. Find it hard to take holidays.

Also we found out this week the staff are getting bonus,s in feb . I can only talk about what life is like in the store I work but we have mighty craic and pretty much get on most of the time. When I started I thought it was going to be a dump of a place to work for but I'm happy enough .

GalwayGuy2 · 13-01-2013 12:47AM

Definitely.

FixdePitchmark · 13-01-2013 12:51AM

monkeysnapper wrote: »

Ok let's get over a myth here, I work for aldi and in all our local stores there's as much Irish people working there as any other nationality.

I've worked in a few different jobs and I feel aldi are a fair employer. There very consistent and treat their staff pretty well in my opinion.

Yes the work is hard but there's loads of jobs out there you could say the same. I've a few friends who work in petrol stations and centra,s and they get treated like muck .dont get breaks like they should. Find it hard to take holidays.

Also we found out this week the staff are getting bonus,s in feb . I can only talk about what life is like in the store I work but we have mighty craic and pretty much get on most of the time. When I started I thought it was going to be a dump of a place to work for but I'm happy enough .

Do you not think the wages are awful ?

Thwip! · 13-01-2013 12:53AM

Aldi/Lidl pay better than Superquinn or Dunnes so i hear

JackTheGrinder · 13-01-2013 12:54AM

Yes I would literally work anywhere for any duration of time for the 3 months of summer for any semi-acceptable wage. I am 18 yo and if I don't do something this summer, I will likely be drawn into the Magaluf - alcoholic culture that post-leaving cert life becomes.

Lucyfur · 13-01-2013 12:55AM

I'm not unemployed but if I was, of course I'd work in aldi/lidl. Or anywhere.

miss_shadow · 13-01-2013 12:56AM

Aldi lidl or a factory I would but I'd pass at a job in dunnes or Supervalu thanks!

I'm not unemployed though

Unemployed boardies would you actually work in aldi/lidi or factory for minimum wage

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