Another mass shooting in the U.S

clairefontaine · 11-01-2013 06:36PM

Blay wrote: »

You must be joking? What would stop criminals looking at it and going 'yeah I'l take this guy's firearms, then this guy's' and so on? The firearms you own are nobody else's business..the only people that know I have them is the Gardai and my close family...neither I nor any other firearms owner in Ireland would want a database of our firearms so sure as fcuk nobody in the US will accept it.

Why not? Marriage and property records are public. You may not want people to know you have them, but with power comes a demand for transparency right? We always demand that nations disclose what weapons they have so why shouldn't private citizens?

Sorry, but I have a right to know who among my neighbours, lovers, parents with my kids share playdates keep weapons in the home.

yoyo · 11-01-2013 06:37PM

Blay wrote: »

You can get S/A rifles here and put a 100rnd drum mag on them..no restriction on mag size for centrefire rifles here and there's little control over the purchase of ammunition, you could go to 10 different dealers and each time buy whatever your licence limit is and then do the cycle again and stock up to your hearts content.

But it is clearly not an issue here as it is over there. How to solve the problem? Ban guns capable of using "extended mags", drum mags etc. Restrict ammo based on the ID card system (as it would be difficult to remove the current guns that are currently owned, restricting ammo will solve this issue) they have in place over there in all States. They have no problem tracking you for warrants/other stuff via their systems, can't see why ammo purchasing should be any different. Who knows, it could stop another (soon to come upsettingly..) massacre taking place.

I mean face it even full auto in the US is banned so that tells you something about its lethality right?

True that is, but if you want the AR 15 can be just as "quick" and lethal as a full auto when it comes to rapid firing: here.
I really don't think it is appropriate that civilians should have such firearms. Yes you can rapid fire with any semi auto rifle, the difference is if its only 5 or 10 rounds, and requires manually reloading of each round, it isn't as "easy" to inflict as much damage as these firearms can out of the box. If you wern't able to buy more than 80/100 rounds at a time (and have weekly/monthly restrictions) it would also make it more difficult for people who want to go on a rampage (did the say the shooter at sandy hook used nearly that amount of rounds to get into the school alone?).

Nick

old hippy · 11-01-2013 06:38PM

Blay wrote: »

You must be joking? What would stop criminals looking at it and going 'yeah I'l take this guy's firearms, then this guy's' and so on? The firearms you own are nobody else's business..the only people that know I have them is the Gardai and my close family...neither I nor any other firearms owner in Ireland would want a database of our firearms so sure as fcuk nobody in the US will accept it.

Out of curiosity, why do you bear arms?

Witcher · 11-01-2013 06:38PM

clairefontaine wrote: »

Why not? Marriage and property records are public. You may not want people to know you have them, but with power comes a demand for transparency right? We always demand that nations disclose what weapons they have so why shouldn't private citizens?

Sorry, but I have a right to know who among my neighbours, lovers, parents with my kids share playdates keep weapons in the home.

People can't steal your marriage or your house. My firearms ownership is transparent to the State and that's the only authority I would allow access to. There's a reason you don't tell everyone you own firearms..because people have mouths and who they use talk to about your firearms when you're not there is out of your control.

No, you don't.

Conmaicne Mara · 11-01-2013 06:40PM

clairefontaine wrote: »

I have a right to know who among my neighbours, lovers, parents with my kids share playdates keep weapons in the home.

No, you don't.

clairefontaine · 11-01-2013 06:43PM

Blay wrote: »

People can't steal your marriage or your house. My firearms ownership is transparent to the State and that's the only authority I would allow access to. There's a reason you don't tell everyone you own firearms..because people have mouths and who they use talk to about your firearms when you're not there is out of your control.

No, you don't.

So what?

People steal spouses all the time unbeknowst to themselves. People commit bigamy too. People find out where you live and find out how much property you have and sue the pants off you.

Yes people have mouths. Big wow. But with a population where so many people have guns, yes I want to know if whomever I am involved with or my kids are involved with have access to guns, and yes that should be public information just like marriage, divorce and property.

Witcher · 11-01-2013 06:43PM

old hippy wrote: »

Out of curiosity, why do you bear arms?

I don't 'bear arms', I hold them at the Gardai's pleasure for my sport.

Witcher · 11-01-2013 06:46PM

clairefontaine wrote: »

So what?

People steal spouses all the time unbeknowst to themselves. People commit bigamy too. People find out where you live and find out how much property you have and sue the pants off you.

Yes people have mouths. Big wow. But with a population where so many people have guns, yes I want to know if whomever I am involved with or my kids are involved with have access to guns, and yes that should be public information just like marriage, divorce and property.

Would you want a database of cars and where they're kept so criminals could look through it and pick cars out to steal at will?

Well then you ask whoever you're involved with. What your neighbour across the street or any other people have is none of your business.

clairefontaine · 11-01-2013 06:51PM

Blay wrote: »

Would you want a database of cars and where they're kept so criminals could look through it and pick cars out to steal at will?

Well then you ask whoever you're involved with. What your neighbour across the street or any other people have is none of your business.

I can see my neighbours cars. So can the criminals. Some get stolen. Some don't. Hardly the same spectrum of comparison.

Anyone can get your credit score yet you want no transparency for weapons?

If they have guns, yes it is my business. If I'm dating someone or hiring someone, presuming I have correct ID of them, easy to find if they are married, divorced, and what property they have [in US public records] but I wouldn't be able to know what guns they own.

pabloh999 · 11-01-2013 06:54PM

Blay wrote: »

The naivety:pac:

Elaborate?
Not foolproof, but it's something

Witcher · 11-01-2013 06:55PM

clairefontaine wrote: »

I can see my neighbours cars. So can the criminals. Some get stolen. Some don't. Hardly the same spectrum of comparison.

Anyone can get your credit score yet you want no transparency for weapons?

If they have guns, yes it is my business. If I'm dating someone or hiring someone, presuming I have correct ID of them, easy to find if they are married, divorced, and what property they have [in US public records] but I wouldn't be able to know what guns they own.

I'm not going to go around in circles with ya, that system will never see the light of day so it's pointless even talking about it. It's none of your business...0. The government don't want criminals knowing where firearms are and neither do the people who hold the firearms.

clairefontaine · 11-01-2013 06:57PM

Blay wrote: »

I'm not going to go around in circles with ya, that system will never see the light of day so it's pointless even talking about it. It's none of your business...0. The government don't want criminals knowing where firearms are and neither do the people who hold the firearms.

Wait and see. Privacy is gone as we all know.

InTheTrees · 11-01-2013 07:38PM

pabloh999 wrote: »

Not a month. You get a small amount for home protection
If you need to use them, i.e someone breaks into your home and you have shot them, then you walk into the local police station fill out a report explaining where your bullets went and apply for a new supply

Highly regulated, policed and enforced with harsh penalties for missing bullets.

Shotguns dont use bullets.

Bullets can be reloaded.

Not all guns are used for self protection.

It would be a lot easier in Ireland certainly. Its a lot easier to ban something thats not widely available already. Except for some yahoo's shooting pheasants, there isnt much hunting in ireland is there? And farmers dont have to deal with any predators larger than a fox.

InTheTrees · 11-01-2013 07:43PM

I'm suprised more of the anti gun folks dont suggest education, testing and licencing.

Surely that would help right? And its something most people can understand.

And its one of the major differences between the USA and other gun owning countries.

You realize in the USA you can buy a high powered rifle without any kind of safety training or licence. Once you walk out of the shop with it, there's no trace of where that gun goes. The background checks are for handguns only.

Even a rudimentary trace on these items would be a good start. Just knowing who buys bullets rather than some arbitary limit.

Just a thought.

InTheTrees · 11-01-2013 07:57PM

clairefontaine wrote: »

Sorry, but I have a right to know who among my neighbours, lovers, parents with my kids share playdates keep weapons in the home.

No, You dont.

Are you suggesting we publish the names of people who are/could be mentally unfit? They're more likely to harm kids arent they? What about those on long term medications that can have dodgy side effects?

Hey, how about a handy identifier? Like a scarlet letter perhaps?

wordsmithi · 11-01-2013 08:01PM

It is really scary seeing so many of these shootings hitting the headlines almost on a weekly basis now. Very disturbing.

pabloh999 · 11-01-2013 08:19PM

InTheTrees wrote: »

Shotguns dont use bullets.

Bullets can be reloaded.

Not all guns are used for self protection.

It would be a lot easier in Ireland certainly. Its a lot easier to ban something thats not widely available already. Except for some yahoo's shooting pheasants, there isnt much hunting in ireland is there? And farmers dont have to deal with any predators larger than a fox.

Ok 30 rounds.
This is not about Ireland ,this is about America.

Guns specificaly for home protection should have serious limits on the number of rounds kept at home.
Guns for sport, target practice etc should have ALL ammo stored in whatever shooting facility you attend

MadsL · 11-01-2013 08:22PM

wordsmithi wrote: »

It is really scary seeing so many of these shootings hitting the headlines almost on a weekly basis now. Very disturbing.

You mean the fact that the media picks up on every incident mentioning the word 'gun' over about a six week period and runs hysterical headlines about it.

I agree.

Ireland has a press embargo on suicides, a out-of-state press embargo on school shootings would be an appropriate way to stop the instant fame phenomena.

We urgently need to stop the amount of media attention being given to school shooters.

StinkyMunkey · 11-01-2013 08:29PM

MadsL wrote: »

You mean the fact that the media picks up on every incident mentioning the word 'gun' over about a six week period and runs hysterical headlines about it.

I agree.

Ireland has a press embargo on suicides, a out-of-state press embargo on school shootings would be an appropriate way to stop the instant fame phenomena.

We urgently need to stop the amount of media attention being given to school shooters.

But sky news get weeks out of those sort of headlines. A lot of the madness that goes on in the world go's unreported.

In one incident in Pakistan 2 suicide bombers blew up a snooker hall killing scores of people. It wasn't on sky news the following day.

Fact is a lot of these news corps use the headlines for the own political agenda.

Anyone who think the papers or news program's report news unbiased is away with the fairys.

Witcher · 11-01-2013 08:31PM

pabloh999 wrote: »

Guns for sport, target practice etc should have ALL ammo stored in whatever shooting facility you attend

Where do hunters keep theirs? In a field?

A lot of ranges don't have the facilities to store ammuntion, some are no more than a shed and the actual range, same with may clay grounds.

What about people travelling to compete in other clubs? Do they have to go to their club, collect ammo, go to the other club and then go back with any surplus?

MadsL · 11-01-2013 08:36PM

pabloh999 wrote: »

Ok 30 rounds.
This is not about Ireland ,this is about America.

Guns specificaly for home protection should have serious limits on the number of rounds kept at home.
Guns for sport, target practice etc should have ALL ammo stored in whatever shooting facility you attend

So if I shoot vermin around my property, or shoot quail with my shotgun I should have to go to the cops and account for my bad aim or produce carcasses. You can surely see how that is an utter waste of police time.

Restricting ammo just makes people worse shots when it comes to using the weapon defensively.

Most of the ranges around me are outdoor, desert style ranges, with little to protect them from burglary.

Seriously, think about the country you are talking about and how it actually works.

Sparks · 11-01-2013 08:40PM

pabloh999 wrote: »

Elaborate?
Not foolproof, but it's something

It's preventing people practicing with their firearms to maintain proficiency is what it is. If you can't practice, you can't hit the target, and the firearm is useless to you.

Guns for sport, target practice etc should have ALL ammo stored in whatever shooting facility you attend

The gardai disagree, they believe that that approach would be a threat to public safety because ranges are generally in isolated areas with long response times from the gardai; so any burglar would have a lot of time to use whatever power tools they want to get at any firearms or ammunition stored on the range.

StinkyMunkey · 11-01-2013 08:42PM

MadsL wrote: »

So if I shoot vermin around my property, or shoot quail with my shotgun I should have to go to the cops and account for my bad aim or produce carcasses. You can surely see how that is an utter waste of police time.

Restricting ammo just makes people worse shots when it comes to using the weapon defensively.

Most of the ranges around me are outdoor, desert style ranges, with little to protect them from burglary.

Seriously, think about the country you are talking about and how it actually works.

So you need an assault rifle with large clips to defend your home 0.o

In Ireland the law changed recently where you are actually allowed to defend yourself in your home.

If some guy comes into your house to rob you, a shotgun or handgun will suffice, unless ofc you live in a mansion and have huge open spaces in your house.

StinkyMunkey · 11-01-2013 08:43PM

Anyway, lets face it, it's hard to miss with a shotgun in close quarters.

Sparks · 11-01-2013 08:45PM

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

So you need an assault rifle with large clips to defend your home 0.o
In Ireland the law changed recently where you are actually allowed to defend yourself in your home.

Two sentences, two major factual errors.
1) You can't get an assault rifle here or in the US.
2) The law did not change, we've had castle doctrine since the days of the actual castles the doctrine is named for. All FG did was move it from case to statute law, it was mostly a political sham for PR purposes.

Witcher · 11-01-2013 08:45PM

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

So you need an assault rifle with large clips to defend your home 0.o

In Ireland the law changed recently where you are actually allowed to defend yourself in your home.

If some guy comes into your house to rob you, a shotgun or handgun will suffice, unless ofc you live in a mansion and have huge open spaces in your house.

An AR15 is not an assault rifle and it doesn't use 'clips'...a Lee Enfield uses a clip, an M1 Garand uses a clip..an AR15 uses a magazine. You can tell who has picked up their knowledge from TV...'clips, assault rifle'..buzzwords.

It's difficult to be accurate with a pistol, it has a short sight radius..imagine doing it while you're half asleep.

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

Anyway, lets face it, it's hard to miss with a shotgun in close quarters.

Shotguns don't spread shot out like the movies lead you to believe, even with a cylinder bore..as open a choke as you can get..it still makes a tight pattern at close range so it is possible to miss.

MadsL · 11-01-2013 08:56PM

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

So you need an assault rifle with large clips to defend your home 0.o

And so it begins again.

Why can't we do X
Because of Y

Well here's something you never said.

How about you a. Understand what an assault rifle actually is, and b. stop putting words in my mouth that I never said.

Then maybe we could have, y'know, a discussion.

StinkyMunkey · 11-01-2013 09:04PM

Sparks wrote: »

Two sentences, two major factual errors.
1) You can't get an assault rifle here or in the US.
2) The law did not change, we've had castle doctrine since the days of the actual castles the doctrine is named for. All FG did was move it from case to statute law, it was mostly a political sham for PR purposes.

I know you can't buy an assault rifle in Ireland. As far as I'm aware, you can only buy a .22 rifle, .22 handgun or shotgun in Ireland since the brought firearm restrictions regarding handguns back into affect.

My choice of words might have been inaccurate regarding assault rifle, I meant:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15

My statement regarding defending yourself in your home, was being able to defend yourself by other means, I didn't mention a gun, which I probably should have stated.

Witcher · 11-01-2013 09:07PM

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

I know you can't buy an assault rifle in Ireland. As far as I'm aware, you can only buy a .22 rifle, .22 handgun or shotgun in Ireland since the brought firearm restrictions regarding handguns back into affect.

You can have any calibre rifle, even a .50 if you had a reason for it.

StinkyMunkey · 11-01-2013 09:09PM

Blay wrote: »

An AR15 is not an assault rifle and it doesn't use 'clips'...a Lee Enfield uses a clip, an M1 Garand uses a clip..an AR15 uses a magazine. You can tell who has picked up their knowledge from TV...'clips, assault rifle'..buzzwords.

It's difficult to be accurate with a pistol, it has a short sight radius..imagine doing it while you're half asleep.

Shotguns don't spread shot out like the movies lead you to believe, even with a cylinder bore..as open a choke as you can get..it still makes a tight pattern at close range so it is possible to miss.

My choice of words was a little off, but people got the gist. Thanks for being pedantic.

I don't know wear you live, but unless the guy is the flash I'd have a hard time missing him anywhere in my house, especially with a shotgun.

Another mass shooting in the U.S

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