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named driver-how does it work??

135

Comments

  • #62
    oldyouth
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,754 ✭✭✭oldyouth


    areyawell wrote: »
    Link? Dont believe that for a second! Looks like you did that up yourself
    My sister was under the parents insurance in her own Micra. Her car got robbed and burned out in Limerick. Insurance company never asked them questions and was 100 miles away from home attending college
    Times have changed. Insurers may have guessed things were not right but let them slide for economic reasons. Now that there is no investment income for insurers, the ball game has changed. I'll let fellow insurance professionals back up my position


  • #63
    areyawell
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭areyawell


    oldyouth wrote: »
    Times have changed. Insurers may have guessed things were not right but let them slide for economic reasons. Now that there is no investment income for insurers, the ball game has changed. I'll let fellow insurance professionals back up my position
    That was only 2 years ago. Again I ask for a link? Do you work for an insurance company dealing with claims? They cannot ask for a look at who paid for the car or tax, its not a company who provide loans who have every right to ask , they are an Insurance company


  • #64
    ResearchWill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭ResearchWill


    areyawell wrote: »
    Wrong, if you are caught driving on your own its two penalty points. Two penalty points is not a big deal and won't affect your insurance. People get the same for using mobile phones and speeding. Its a 70 euro fine. Been driving a year now and never been caught




    Completely wrong. One of his parents can take out a second insurance and he can get insured on his own car as a named driver under his parents insurance. Everyone does and the insurance companies arn't stupid and know the named driver is the main driver. Who' to say who drives the car the most, it doesn't matter! Thousands of people are doing it and its not illegal.

    These days companies such as insurance take been a named driver for a year the same as having one year no claims discount.

    I know of a case where a child got parent to put the car in parents name, then insured in parents name and child as named driver. The child had a crash and passenger claimed, insurance company covered claim but found out about named driver thing, they said they would seek an indemnity from the parent, they decided not to but did say it.


  • #65
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,321 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    This post has been deleted.


  • #66
    AltAccount
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,056 ✭✭✭AltAccount


    areyawell wrote: »
    Wouldn't happen, What defines a main driver of the car? Insurance company wouldnt have any proof. I was obviously taking the mick with the stopwatch and log book

    If they want to wriggle out of it, faced with a 6-figure medical bill (but obviously this could apply for much smaller sums too), who's to say this wouldn't happen:

    InsCo - Mr Areyawell's dad, this policy is in your name, with Areyawell as a named driver. You stated in your insurance application that you would be the main driver, and that Areyawell would be an occasional driver. Correct?


    MrAD - Yep!


    InsCo - Can you provide us with the following information - your distance from work, how often you commute to work in your car, details of any driving holidays or large periods of driving you've undertaken, and any other significant distances you've covered in the last few years?

    Please note, this doesn't have to be exact, just your best memory - we're working under the of assumption of Utmost Good Faith.


    MrAD - Here ya go!


    InsCo - Can you supply us with the current mileage on your vehicle, as well as the mileage on your car when you bought it - you might find that information on the SIMI order form you completed with the selling dealer, if you can't find it please call the dealer and get this information from their records.

    Alternatively we would accept the mileage information you've supplied to your insurance company each year over the last few years, or potentially the mileage history from your service history, if you have a verifiable one.


    MrAD - Here ya go again!


    InsCo - Thanks. Now, we've also looked at the current mileage and the opening mileage (when the car was originally put on policy with us) of Areyawell's vehicle, so we've built up a mileage profile of both.

    Can you please explain to us, in detail, in the company of our solicitor (you may bring your own if you wish) why the distances covered by both vehicles don't match up with the information you've given us previously?

    We're struggling to understand how you're the main driver of both vehicles, and doing this amount of driving in both vehicles, and we're concerned that you are guilty of insurance fraud.


    MrAD - Erm...


    (note: this is an imaginary situation only. I'm sure you can provide loads of what-ifs and other blah blah, but hopefully you see what I'm getting at)


    Tl;dr - just because you think they don't know what they're doing, or that they're letting you away you a lower lower premium because they're nice guys and you've just found a deliberate loophole that they're perfectly happy for you to exploit, doesn't mean it's true

    areyawell wrote: »
    When I took out insurance I was discussing with the firm about my own insurance and under my parents. When they told me that their no claims bonus policy is the same for a named driver as it is for taking out your own policy I went under the parents insurance. They were glad for the money.

    What does any of this have to do with the discussion of cover?

    NCB policy, and accumulating an NCB while under your own policy vs being named on someone else's policy, is completely separate from insurance cover and the terms & conditions of same.


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  • #67
    Ted_YNWA
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 71,799 ✭✭✭✭Ted_YNWA


    Does the accompanied experienced driver for L drivers have to have insurance on the vehicle in question ?


  • #68
    areyawell
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭areyawell


    AltAccount wrote: »

    If they want to wriggle out of it, faced with a 6-figure medical bill (but obviously this could apply for much smaller sums too), who's to say this wouldn't happen:

    InsCo - Mr Areyawell's dad, this policy is in your name, with Areyawell as a named driver. You stated in your insurance application that you would be the main driver, and that Areyawell would be an occasional driver. Correct?


    MrAD - Yep!


    InsCo - Can you provide us with the following information - your distance from work, how often you commute to work in your car, details of any driving holidays or large periods of driving you've undertaken, and any other significant distances you've covered in the last few years?

    Please note, this doesn't have to be exact, just your best memory - we're working under the of assumption of Utmost Good Faith.


    MrAD - Here ya go!


    InsCo - Can you supply us with the current mileage on your vehicle, as well as the mileage on your car when you bought it - you might find that information on the SIMI order form you completed with the selling dealer, if you can't find it please call the dealer and get this information from their records.

    Alternatively we would accept the mileage information you've supplied to your insurance company each year over the last few years, or potentially the mileage history from your service history, if you have a verifiable one.


    MrAD - Here ya go again!


    InsCo - Thanks. Now, we've also looked at the current mileage and the opening mileage (when the car was originally put on policy with us) of Areyawell's vehicle, so we've built up a mileage profile of both.

    Can you please explain to us, in detail, in the company of our solicitor (you may bring your own if you wish) why the distances covered by both vehicles don't match up with the information you've given us previously?

    We're struggling to understand how you're the main driver of both vehicles, and doing this amount of driving in both vehicles, and we're concerned that you are guilty of insurance fraud.


    MrAD - Erm...


    [SIZE="1"](note: this is an imaginary situation only. I'm sure you can provide loads of what-ifs and other blah blah, but hopefully you see what I'm getting at)
    [/SIZE]

    Tl;dr - just because you think they don't know what they're doing, or that they're letting you away you a lower lower premium because they're nice guys and you've just found a deliberate loophole that they're perfectly happy for you to exploit, doesn't mean it's true




    What does any of this have to do with the discussion of cover?

    NCB policy, and accumulating an NCB while under your own policy vs being named on someone else's policy, is completely separate from insurance cover and the terms & conditions of same.

    I bought the car privatly not from a garage.
    Never asked me how far I travel, a quick estimate is all they wanted. None of their business if I work or not! Or where I travel to.
    I'm sorry buts just waffle above.Sure I drove to cork every weekend there visiting a hooker and that's why mileage is so high, I drove it 51 per cent of the time while the named driver drove it 49 per cent, can you prove this insurance company?


  • #69
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,321 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    This post has been deleted.


  • #70
    slimjimmc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭slimjimmc


    Stheno wrote: »
    What legislation covers that insurance companies have to cover 3rd party where the insured has chosen to invalidate their policy?

    I'm genuinely curious, I remember when I was on a provisional checking the policy to see if it had that clause years ago.

    I'm not a legal professional, just a lay person, but I can't find anything which supersedes this (there may well be):

    SI 14/1962 provides a list of conditions (including anything which has the same effect) which cannot be used to limit cover. *Not having a driving licence is one of the get-outs which can't be used to deny paying out.

    5.—(1) In this article " prohibited condition " means every condition, restriction or limitation on the liability of the insurer or guarantor under an approved policy of insurance or an approved guarantee which comes within any of the classes specified in the First Schedule to these Regulations or any other condition, restriction or limitation which has substantially the same effect as a condition, restriction or limitation which is so specified.

    (2) There shall not be inserted in an approved policy of insurance or an approved guarantee any condition, restriction or limitation on the liability of the insurer or guarantor which affects the right of any person, except the person to whom the policy or guarantee was issued or an excepted person, to recover by virtue of the policy or guarantee an amount under section 76 of the act or which could have the effect of reducing the amount which such a person could so recover, if such condition, restriction or limitation is a prohibited condition.

    One of the prohibited conditions is (amendment SI 58/1964)
    "(f) by limiting the cover to cases where the person driving a vehicle either holds a driving licence to drive the vehicle or holds a provisional licence to drive the vehicle or having held either such licence or a driving licence issued under Part III of the Road Traffic Act, 1933 to drive such a vehicle has not been disqualified for holding it under section 26, 27 or 28 of the Act or under a disqualification order which is deemed to be a consequential disqualification order, an ancillary disqualification order or a special disqualification order by virtue of section 43 of the Act


    [Edit]
    * To clarify, by this I mean cover cannot be denied to those who ever held the relevant class licence/permit and was not disqualified.
    [/Edit]


  • #71
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,685 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Ted_YNWA wrote: »
    Does the accompanied experienced driver for L drivers have to have insurance on the vehicle in question ?
    awec wrote: »
    I don't believe so. The license requirements are all you need I think.

    Yep same as awec said. Just need to hold a full licence for two years.


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  • #72
    oldyouth
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,754 ✭✭✭oldyouth


    areyawell wrote: »
    I bought the car privatly not from a garage.
    Never asked me how far I travel, a quick estimate is all they wanted. None of their business if I work or not! Or where I travel to.
    I'm sorry buts just waffle above.Sure I drove to cork every weekend there visiting a hooker and that's why mileage is so high, I drove it 51 per cent of the time while the named driver drove it 49 per cent, can you prove this insurance company?
    You're making the assumption that this will start and end with pen pushers in an office doing a bit of correspondence tennis until they get bored and give up. If there is a suspicion of insurance fraud (a criminal offence), insurers will ensure this gets to a court of law. Take you chances there if you feel up to it.


  • #73
    AltAccount
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,056 ✭✭✭AltAccount


    areyawell wrote: »
    I bought the car privatly not from a garage.
    Never asked me how far I travel, a quick estimate is all they wanted. None of their business if I work or not! Or where I travel to.
    I'm sorry buts just waffle above.Sure I drove to cork every weekend there visiting a hooker and that's why mileage is so high, I drove it 51 per cent of the time while the named driver drove it 49 per cent, can you prove this insurance company?

    And is it the only vehicle in use by your family? Does your parent own a car too that has usage details that are checkable, and that would contradict the claim that they're the main driver on your car?

    None of their business if you work or not? Have you ever even taken out insurance?? Profession is a main question they ask any time you get a quote, along with age, anticipated mileage etc. etc.
    They're key drivers of your risk profile!


    You're the waffler here mate, and unfortunately some poor sod is going to read your ramblings and follow your example, and potentially put themselves in a really sticky insurance situation!


  • #74
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,685 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    slimjimmc wrote: »
    I'm not a legal professional, just a lay person, but I can't find anything which supersedes this (there may well be):

    SI 14/1962 provides a list of conditions (including anything which has the same effect) which cannot be used to limit cover. Not having a driving licence is one of the get-outs which can't be used to deny paying out.

    One of the prohibited conditions is (amendment SI 58/1964)

    Thanks :) genuinely wasn't aware this was covered by legislation

    What you've posted looks to cover it, basically saying that no clause in a motor insurance policy can invalidate the requirement for the insurer to cover third party injury/damage once the policy is live.


  • #75
    areyawell
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭areyawell


    AltAccount wrote: »

    And is it the only vehicle in use by your family? Does your parent own a car too that has usage details that are checkable, and that would contradict the claim that they're the main driver on your car?

    None of their business if you work or not? Have you ever even taken out insurance?? Profession is a main question they ask any time you get a quote, along with age, anticipated mileage etc. etc.
    They're key drivers of your risk profile!


    You're the waffler here mate, and unfortunately some poor sod is going to read your ramblings and follow your example, and potentially put themselves in a really sticky insurance situation!
    Yes apologies I forgot they ask you your profession. But if you don't go over the estimate travelling on both insurances what can they do? Nothing! And they wouldn't even ask this question anyway!


  • #76
    ABajaninCork
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,411 ✭✭✭ABajaninCork


    areyawell wrote: »
    Yes apologies I forgot they ask you your profession. But if you don't go over the estimate travelling on both insurances what can they do? Nothing!

    Until they find a reason not to pay out. i.e. you might be driving unaccompanied and be unfortunate enough to have a prang.

    NEVER lie to the insurance. They already look for 101 reasons not to pay out. You may as well tell the truth and have done with it.

    As Judge Judy says: If you tell the truth, you don't have to have a good memory!

    Rather than argue the toss, why don't you put in for your test, pass it and then have the insurance in your own name? Simple!


  • #77
    AltAccount
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,056 ✭✭✭AltAccount


    areyawell wrote: »
    Yes apologies I forgot they ask you your profession. But if you don't go over the estimate travelling on both insurances what can they do? Nothing! And they wouldn't even ask this question anyway!

    They wouldn't ask what question?

    What do you mean "what can they do"?
    What do you think a company can do to someone who's entered a contract with them based on deliberately incorrect information, and who's guilty of Insurance Fraud?
    What would you do if you were that company (seriously, I'd like you to answer this question)?


  • #78
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,685 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    areyawell wrote: »
    Yes apologies I forgot they ask you your profession. But if you don't go over the estimate travelling on both insurances what can they do? Nothing! And they wouldn't even ask this question anyway!

    Every single insurance policy I have had has asked both of those questions, and as my mileage and occupation has varied it's affected the premium


  • #79
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,321 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    This post has been deleted.


  • #80
    areyawell
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭areyawell


    AltAccount wrote: »

    They wouldn't ask what question?

    What do you mean "what can they do"?
    What do you think a company can do to someone who's entered a contract with them based on deliberately incorrect information, and who's guilty of Insurance Fraud?
    What would you do if you were that company (seriously, I'd like you to answer this question)?
    How would they find out?


  • #81
    areyawell
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭areyawell


    awec wrote: »
    Insurers will ask your annual mileage when you take out the policy.
    Year they do, never said they didnt, forgot about the job ur in though


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  • #82
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,685 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    areyawell wrote: »
    How would they find out?

    NCT Certs for a start have mileage records recorded.
    They can ask for your home and work address


  • #83
    areyawell
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭areyawell


    Stheno wrote: »

    Every single insurance policy I have had has asked both of those questions, and as my mileage and occupation has varied it's affected the premium
    I mean in the case of an accident


  • #84
    areyawell
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭areyawell


    Stheno wrote: »

    NCT Certs for a start have mileage records recorded.
    They can ask for your home and work address
    And? What about travelling 100 or 200 extra miles outside your work a week. Is that not allowed? Always over exaggerate your travel on insurance, might be an extra 20 euro or so but worth it


  • #85
    AltAccount
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,056 ✭✭✭AltAccount


    areyawell wrote: »
    How would they find out?

    How would they find out what? That you were the main driver?

    I'll answer that when you answer my questions:
    They wouldn't ask what question?

    What do you mean "what can they do"?
    What do you think a company can do to someone who's entered a contract with them based on deliberately incorrect information, and who's guilty of Insurance Fraud?
    What would you do if you were that company (seriously, I'd like you to answer this question)?


  • #86
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,685 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    areyawell wrote: »
    And? What about travelling 100 or 200 extra miles outside your work. Is that not allowed?

    They'll factor that into your overall mileage.


  • #87
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,685 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    areyawell wrote: »
    I mean in the case of an accident

    They might ask.

    Well "Steno, you live and work in Dublin, what were you doing in Ballygobackwards at 5pm on a workday that caused you to have a crash"?

    I could lie and pretend I wasn't travelling there for work, or I could tell the truth.
    They could well investigate if they felt it was fraud.


  • #88
    oldyouth
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,754 ✭✭✭oldyouth


    areyawell wrote: »
    How would they find out?

    So you admit you don't know the various methods that insurers use to identify insurance fraud by way of misrepresentation, yet you advocate that people should risk it?


  • #89
    areyawell
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭areyawell


    Stheno wrote: »
    They might ask.

    Well "Steno, you live and work in Dublin, what were you doing in Ballygobackwards at 5pm on a workday that caused you to have a crash"?

    I could lie and pretend I wasn't travelling there for work, or I could tell the truth.
    They could well investigate if they felt it was fraud.

    My named driver had the car for the day. I decided to use the other car today? Whats wrong with that? Theres no law about not been able to take out two insurances!

    Is there a ratio of the mileage of the car that the named driver can only use yearly. You tell the insurance company that you do 10,000KM a year. You travel 10,000 in the year. What percentage of the 10,000 can the named driver use?


  • #90
    areyawell
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭areyawell


    oldyouth wrote: »
    So you admit you don't know the various methods that insurers use to identify insurance fraud by way of misrepresentation, yet you advocate that people should risk it?

    No cause your not technically lying. Wheres the law that one driver should drive the car more than another. Whats the percentage ratio 51% to main driver, 49% to learner driver? How will an insurance company know?


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  • #91
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,685 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    areyawell wrote: »
    No cause your not technically lying. Wheres the law that one driver should drive the car more than another. Whats the percentage ratio 51% to main driver, 49% to learner driver? How will an insurance company know?

    You're getting tiresome now.
    You have repeatedly advocated insurance fraud using fronting, and admit you yourself are doing so, in the knowledge that if the risk profile for you as the main driver you are having a parent front you on, was instead changed to you, there would be a significant difference in the premium.

    Then you resort to pedantic little points, don't bother answering valid questions you are asked, and don't seem to take anything you are repeatedly told onboard.


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