Why are Degree courses in Ireland 4 years?

Ziphius · 21-12-2012 09:45PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

That's it in a nutshell! The A-level subjects explain some aspects of biology really well. Only when we get rid of our system can we get rid of our first "general" year.

Another point to consider is that science courses offered by Irish universities are generally much broader than those offered in the UK (and maybe the rest of Europe too).

Most of the science course in Ireland have a common entry allowing students to study a range of fields before specializing. Whereas courses in the UK tend to be specialized from the first year.

steddyeddy · 21-12-2012 09:48PM

Ziphius wrote: »

Another point to consider is that science courses offered by Irish universities are generally much broader than those offered in the UK (and maybe the rest of Europe too).

Most of the science course in Ireland have a common entry allowing students to study a range of fields before specializing. Whereas courses in the UK tend to be specialized from the first year.

True. Is that a good or bad thing though? I have no opinion on it really I'm just wondering what your's is.

Tom_Cruise · 21-12-2012 09:50PM

asphalt_jungle wrote: »

FETAC has no international recognition. It's domestic only. If the credits systems is as it is, why is 180 credit Ordinary Degree/Diploma enough to study a Master's at a top university like Helsinki University, whereas the same qualification would not earn you a place at a Master's in basket weaving at the worst college in Ireland? Because according to the Bologna process, this is the case. Not to mention you can achieve a higher class of degree in England for the same amount of study for a lower qualification in Ireland? Makes no sense.

I was always under the impression that FETAC was/is internationally recognised , i think its FETAC who issue apprentices with their papers when they complete their four years apprenticeship.

I hope this is true, no good being a qualified bricklayer in this country at the minute.

eire-kp · 21-12-2012 10:23PM

Tom_Cruise wrote: »

I was always under the impression that FETAC was/is internationally recognised , i think its FETAC who issue apprentices with their papers when they complete their four years apprenticeship.

I hope this is true, no good being a qualified bricklayer in this country at the minute.

Yep its Fectac who issue the certs. Generally most countries look at the standards of apprenticeships in the country you have your trade from and if its in line with their own standards your good to go.

Of course there usually is an exam on the specific rules and regulations of that country for the more technical trades.

Generally apprenticeships from here are looked on with good regards e.g 4 years in total with 40 weeks classroom time. In comparison to the UKs system which is a mess.

rannerap · 21-12-2012 11:03PM

I did a one year degree course through dcu, was unbelievably hard as you pack years worth of learning into one year. so not all courses here are 4 years

Odysseus · 21-12-2012 11:21PM

Sarannewrap wrote: »

I did a one year degree course through dcu, was unbelievably hard as you pack years worth of learning into one year. so not all courses here are 4 years

That is some amount of work in a year, fair play. Did it consist of two or three semesters?

Ziphius · 22-12-2012 12:00AM

steddyeddy wrote: »

True. Is that a good or bad thing though? I have no opinion on it really I'm just wondering what your's is.

I don't really have a strong opinion one way or the other. I can see there are advantages and disadvantages to both systems. Though,of course, it is good to question these things.

I imagine the difference is simply down to tradition rather than anything else.

rannerap · 22-12-2012 01:55AM

Odysseus wrote: »

That is some amount of work in a year, fair play. Did it consist of two or three semesters?

It started in September of last year and I had my exams in June and the thesis was due in August, Graduated there last month

srsly78 · 22-12-2012 07:42AM

sock puppet wrote: »

That's a bit confusing no? I mean would most people who stay in academia not do go on to do a PHD after doing a masters (the 4th year of their course) in the UK. Whereas after a four year degree in Trinity most students would go on to a masters, even if they went to the UK?

No. In the UK a Masters is just what you happen to get get from a good uni after 4 years. Equivalent to our Hons Degree if it's a course of similar duration (4 years).

People that actually did post-graduate study and got a master after 5 years will no doubt find this very annoying.

Northern Monkey · 22-12-2012 08:07AM

Where To wrote: »

My degree in Coleraine was three years.

Oh wait. . . . . . .

Went there myself, wish it was 4 years!

dfx- · 22-12-2012 08:14AM

steddyeddy wrote: »

That's it in a nutshell! The A-level subjects explain some aspects of biology really well. Only when we get rid of our system can we get rid of our first "general" year.

From a chemistry point of view, I wouldn't get rid of the first general year. I supervise first year labs and found a course that had higher level chemistry as a pre-requisite where students had never physically held the most basic lab equipment before third level.

That sort of cobweb has to be cleared out..

DEFTLEFTHAND · 22-12-2012 08:22AM

Always depends on the degree, a ships officer cadet does two years at the NMCI and one year at sea. Great job, even a 4th officer can make a great wage, remember you spend nothing on board and have generous shore leave.

At the top of the spectrum a Captain in the M.N can earn 6 figures and work half the year.

harney · 22-12-2012 12:51PM

Mully_2011 wrote: »

So if I have a ordinary degree (180 credits) I can go and do a masters in the UK or Europe ??

In fairness, if you have cash you can do a masters in the UK.

Rhyme · 22-12-2012 01:07PM

srsly78 wrote: »

The Bologna process standardised all of this.

In England a 4 year course usually gives a Masters. Our 4 year courses give Hons Degree. Internationally this is recognised to be the same thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bologna_Process

That both sounds delicious and makes for an interesting read.

looksee · 22-12-2012 01:14PM

Degree level is HETAC not FETAC, different scales, though they do overlap.

Ziphius · 22-12-2012 02:59PM

srsly78 wrote: »

No. In the UK a Masters is just what you happen to get get from a good uni after 4 years. Equivalent to our Hons Degree if it's a course of similar duration (4 years).

People that actually did post-graduate study and got a master after 5 years will no doubt find this very annoying.

In the UK Masters can be studied as a separte (one or two year) postgraduate course similar to the Irish system. See Imperials prospectus:http://www3.imperial.ac.uk/pgprospectus/whatcanyoustudy

Some courses will include an extra, optional, masters years. So three years undergraduate plus one year masters. This would be the same as an Irish masters.

The time taken to complete the degree isn't really the important thing it is the level of the degree, or at least its perceived level.

In certain Scottish universities, however, an MA is awarded after four years of studying arts. This is still consiered an undergraduate degree and equaivalent of a three or four year Irish BA. See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_of_Arts_%28Scotland%29

Odysseus · 22-12-2012 03:32PM

So where do you stand with the english system if you did a three year Hons degree? How does that translate?

Ziphius · 22-12-2012 03:55PM

A three or four year Irish honours degree is equivalent of a three year English bachelor degree.

This page from Aberystwyth University gives comparisions of UK and other EU qualifications. http://iota.wiserhosting.co.uk/~artcypr/comparability.html

Although it also includes "undergraduate Masters" such as MEng, MPhys, or MMath. So, contrary to what I said earlier A four year UK "Masters" degree may indeed be comparable to a four year Irish BA.

Wurly · 22-12-2012 04:30PM

Sarannewrap wrote: »

It started in September of last year and I had my exams in June and the thesis was due in August, Graduated there last month

Was that via distance learning? Or did you attend the degree? I've never heard of being able to do a degree in such a short space of time. More info if you dont mind please.....:)

GLaDOS · 22-12-2012 04:33PM

I think a lot of 4 year courses include time for work experience, while a lot of the 3 year ones don't, could be wrong though.

Tar.Aldarion · 22-12-2012 04:44PM

Yeah but a lot of that work experience is in the summer anyway.

So I did a 4 year degree and a 1 year masters, what does that translate to in other countries?

Steodonn · 22-12-2012 04:47PM

ScienceNerd wrote: »

I think a lot of 4 year courses include time for work experience, while a lot of the 3 year ones don't, could be wrong though.

In DCU most courses have work placement and are 4 years mine is one of the few that don't and is only 3 years

Although it also includes "undergraduate Masters" such as MEng, MPhys, or MMath. So, contrary to what I said earlier A four year UK "Masters" degree may indeed be comparable to a four year Irish BA.

That makes sense it has a masters here and one in the UK as equal to each other

Lawliet · 22-12-2012 08:04PM

dfx- wrote: »

From a chemistry point of view, I wouldn't get rid of the first general year. I supervise first year labs and found a course that had higher level chemistry as a pre-requisite where students had never physically held the most basic lab equipment before third level.

That sort of cobweb has to be cleared out..

I'm in third year of a four year science and I couldn't touch that first year either. I did biology and chemistry at leaving cert so I already knew most of what we did in lecturers, but the practical stuff was completely new. Our school just didn't have the space or equipment for students to do a lot of the experiments, I'm sure I wasn't the only one. If you cut first year you'd have students working with dangerous chemicals and expensive lab equipment with no training. Recipe for disaster.

Sugar Free · 22-12-2012 08:31PM

Wurly wrote: »

Was that via distance learning? Or did you attend the degree? I've never heard of being able to do a degree in such a short space of time. More info if you dont mind please.....:)

I'm assuming it was on top of another existing third level qualification like a national certificate or diploma?

So the full degree year would have in conjunction with the previous qualification given enough credits from the links given to award a degree...

Completely open to correction though, just speculating!

Grayson · 22-12-2012 09:32PM

Wurly wrote: »

Was that via distance learning? Or did you attend the degree? I've never heard of being able to do a degree in such a short space of time. More info if you dont mind please.....:)

I googled a bit and there's a 1 year nursing degree from DCU

http://www.dcu.ie/prospective/deginfo.php?classname=BNS&degree_description=Bachelor+of+Nursing+Studies+Online%2FBlended+Learning+(Honours)+Degree+-++1+year

rannerap · 24-12-2012 10:59AM

Wurly wrote: »

Was that via distance learning? Or did you attend the degree? I've never heard of being able to do a degree in such a short space of time. More info if you dont mind please.....:)

No it wasn't distance learning. I went to college full time. Here is the course below. I attended classes in Ballyfermot but my degree was through dcu and says dcu on it, not Ballyfermot college http://applications.bcfe.ie/course-MPM-BA_(Hons)_Degree_In_Media_Production__Management.html

rannerap · 24-12-2012 11:01AM

Sugar Free wrote: »

I'm assuming it was on top of another existing third level qualification like a national certificate or diploma?

So the full degree year would have in conjunction with the previous qualification given enough credits from the links given to award a degree...

Completely open to correction though, just speculating!

Only seen this after I posted, yeah I already had graduated with a higher national diploma in the same field.

summerskin · 24-12-2012 11:12AM

It's totally different in the UK, virtually ALL degrees are honours, and it's based on your average grade

"Degree classification

A degree may be awarded with or without honours, with the class of an honours degree based on a weighted average mark of the assessed work a candidate has completed. Below is a list of the possible classifications with common abbreviations. Honours degrees are in bold.

First class honours (1st)
Second class honours, upper division (2:1)
Second class honours, lower division (2:2)
Third class honours (3rd)
Ordinary degree (Pass)

At most institutions the system allows a small amount of discretion and a candidate may be elevated to the next degree class if their average marks are close to, or the median of their weighted marks achieves the higher class and they have submitted many pieces of work worthy of the higher class. However, they may be demoted a class if they fail to pass all parts of the course even if they have a high average."

I have a BA(hons) and could then have chosen to go on to study for my Masters, which i didn't.

To be honest, i have never heard of even a single person getting just a "Pass"(ordinary degree). A 2-2(lower second class honours) is the minimum requirement for you to go to Post-Grad study.

The reason degrees are usually done in 3 years in the UK is down to A-levels, plain and simple.

eyeroad yearowl one · 24-12-2012 11:27AM

Anyone with a Trinity BA can be awarded an MA three years or so after graduating. Same as the Oxbridge system

The Cool · 24-12-2012 12:08PM

As someone said 2 pages back, the nursing degree in the UK takes 3 years instead of the 4 it takes here because they don't have summer holidays, and are studying or on placement 11 months a year. Don't think I'd want that - I did a 4 year BA and a Masters and depended on having 3 months off each summer in order to work and save up for the next academic year. A mate of mine is studying nursing in Derry and has been flat broke for three years with feck all down time. It was great for her as she went in older than the others having done a diploma first, but it's been hardcore constantly stressing about the rent for 3 years.

Why are Degree courses in Ireland 4 years?

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