Why are Degree courses in Ireland 4 years?

asphalt_jungle · 21-12-2012 06:33PM #1

In England, a Degree lasts 3 years and costs more money to weed out the non serious students. Does this mean they are worth more to employers? Have you encountered any stick over this? A year is a big difference for the same qualification. It implies that Irish students on average, slower. My idea to save money for the Gubbermint - make ALL 4 year degree courses 3 years. This would save quite a bit of money for the taxpayer. A 4 year degree makes very little sense. Agreed?

Pawwed Rig · 21-12-2012 06:34PM

It depends what you're studying. Some degrees are 3 years some are 4 years

jaffa20 · 21-12-2012 06:35PM

Some are 3 and some are 4 afaik. Same as in uk.

Redhairedguy · 21-12-2012 06:35PM

My B.A degree in Galway was only 3 years...

bleg · 21-12-2012 06:36PM

asphalt_jungle wrote: »

In England, a Degree lasts 3 years and costs more money to weed out the non serious students. Does this mean they are worth more to employers? Have you encountered any stick over this? A year is a big difference for the same qualification. It implies that Irish students on average, slower. My idea to save money for the Gubbermint - make ALL 4 year degree courses 3 years. This would save quite a bit of money for the taxpayer. A 4 year degree makes very little sense. Agreed?

My degree was 9-6 most days with an hour for lunch over most of the 4 years, 5 days a week. Can't really condense that.

Where To · 21-12-2012 06:36PM

My degree in Coleraine was three years.

Oh wait. . . . . . .

asphalt_jungle · 21-12-2012 06:36PM

Redhairedguy wrote: »

My B.A degree in Galway was only 3 years...

Arts appears to be the exception. The vast majority of courses in Ireland are 4 years. Besides, most Arts students do a postgrad afterwards.

srsly78 · 21-12-2012 06:37PM

The Bologna process standardised all of this.

In England a 4 year course usually gives a Masters. Our 4 year courses give Hons Degree. Internationally this is recognised to be the same thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bologna_Process

Redhairedguy · 21-12-2012 06:39PM

asphalt_jungle wrote: »

Arts appears to be the exception. The vast majority of courses in Ireland are 4 years. Besides, most Arts students do a postgrad afterwards.

There was nowhere in Galway for me to continue my education, and the majority of people who studied Film & TV in my Galway, stuck with their basic degree and are now working.

Lenin Skynard · 21-12-2012 06:41PM

Redhairedguy wrote: »

There was nowhere in Galway for me to continue my education, and the majority of people who studied Film & TV in my Galway, stuck with their basic degree and are now working.

What about the Huston Film School?

asphalt_jungle · 21-12-2012 06:42PM

srsly78 wrote: »

The Bologna process standardised all of this.

In England a 4 year course usually gives a Masters. Our 4 year courses give Hons Degree. Internationally this is recognised to be the same thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bologna_Process

Confusing as hell. Because under that "process" an Ordinary Degree(180 ECTS credits) is considered more than enough for a Masters. By that standards, only UK and Irish employers in Europe recognise the concept of an "Honours" degree. WTF? Besides, they most certainly are not the same qualification.

Redhairedguy · 21-12-2012 06:42PM

Lenin Skynard wrote: »

What about the Huston Film School?

They already require a higher degree for their Masters course, which people coming from Film & TV in Cluain Mhuire wouldn't have.

Overheal · 21-12-2012 06:42PM

If you want to grind through quicker, you can even do a bachelors in 2 years in some universities and tech institutes; most people just dont have that kind of time or money though, you basically have to already have the funds for cost of living up front. Having a PT job and doing 20+ credit hours/week ain't gonna work.

WhatNowForUs? · 21-12-2012 06:44PM

It is standardised international through the FETAC levels which are maintained through credits. Credits are given on the amount of time each module in given for completion.

srsly78 · 21-12-2012 06:48PM

asphalt_jungle wrote: »

Confusing as hell. Because under that "process" an Ordinary Degree(180 ECTS credits) is considered more than enough for a Masters. By that standards, only UK and Irish employers in Europe recognise the concept of an "Honours" degree. WTF? Besides, they most certainly are not the same qualification.

Ok, lets say you have a 4 year BA Hons from Trinity. Someone from England has a 4 year MA from Scunthorpe Uni. Internationally these are the same level qualification (same amount of time spent, same credits).

However you are right, the Irish degree is clearly better in this case and most employers know this.

asphalt_jungle · 21-12-2012 06:49PM

WhatNowForUs? wrote: »

It is standardised international through the FETAC levels which are maintained through credits. Credits are given on the amount of time each module in given for completion.

FETAC has no international recognition. It's domestic only. If the credits systems is as it is, why is 180 credit Ordinary Degree/Diploma enough to study a Master's at a top university like Helsinki University, whereas the same qualification would not earn you a place at a Master's in basket weaving at the worst college in Ireland? Because according to the Bologna process, this is the case. Not to mention you can achieve a higher class of degree in England for the same amount of study for a lower qualification in Ireland? Makes no sense.

steddyeddy · 21-12-2012 06:50PM

asphalt_jungle wrote: »

In England, a Degree lasts 3 years and costs more money to weed out the non serious students. Does this mean they are worth more to employers? Have you encountered any stick over this? A year is a big difference for the same qualification. It implies that Irish students on average, slower. My idea to save money for the Gubbermint - make ALL 4 year degree courses 3 years. This would save quite a bit of money for the taxpayer. A 4 year degree makes very little sense. Agreed?

No it doesn't make much sense. You say increased cost would weed out the less serious students. I think common sense would dictate that academic abilty does not have a corelate with wallet size.

There is a case to bw made for shortening degree course but we would nedd to completely rehaul the leaving cert for it to work. The first year of a lot of degree programs like science is very general. Eg general biology, the second year you pick three streams eg nueroscience, genetics and biochem and then in the third and fourth year you focus on one of those subjects. If they taught the relevent information in leaving cert biology or chemistry then we wouldn't need a first year in science.

asphalt_jungle · 21-12-2012 06:57PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

No it doesn't make much sense. You say increased cost would weed out the less serious students. I think common sense would dictate that academic abilty does not have a corelate with wallet size.

There is a case to bw made for shortening degree course but we would nedd to completely rehaul the leaving cert for it to work. The first year of a lot of degree programs like science is very general. Eg general biology, the second year you pick three streams eg nueroscience, genetics and biochem and then in the third and fourth year you focus on one of those subjects. If they taught the relevent information in leaving cert biology or chemistry then we wouldn't need a first year in science.

Why not? If they can manage it across the pond in 3 years, I can't see why it can't work here. In the UK, the Government won't even pay any amount in fees, let alone giving out grants to people who don't really deserve them(I am in no way implying this applies to everybody, just my own observation). Even with the increased capitation, an extra year for every student in the country at third level is an additional 2000+ euro wasted in direct costs, not including indirect costs. It's costing the taxpayer with little return on investment. Just saying.

steddyeddy · 21-12-2012 07:05PM

asphalt_jungle wrote: »

Why not? If they can manage it across the pond in 3 years, I can't see why it can't work here. In the UK, the Government won't even pay any amount in fees, let alone giving out grants to people who don't really deserve them(I am in no way implying this applies to everybody, just my own observation). Even with the increased capitation, an extra year for every student in the country at third level is an additional 2000+ euro wasted in direct costs, not including indirect costs. It's costing the taxpayer with little return on investment. Just saying.

And I'm agreeing with you on the three years point! I just dont think increasing fees will increase student quality. Theres no evidence that people of higher academic ability are also those with a certain level of income.

Ziphius · 21-12-2012 07:05PM

asphalt_jungle wrote: »

Why not? If they can manage it across the pond in 3 years, I can't see why it can't work here. In the UK, the Government won't even pay any amount in fees, let alone giving out grants to people who don't really deserve them(I am in no way implying this applies to everybody, just my own observation). Even with the increased capitation, an extra year for every student in the country at third level is an additional 2000+ euro wasted in direct costs, not including indirect costs. It's costing the taxpayer with little return on investment. Just saying.

As steddyeddy said, perhaps Irish students aren't as well prepared as their UK counterparts. A levels subjects are taught in much greater depth than their Leaving cert equivalents. So, perhaps, UK universities can start their programmes at a higher level whereas Irish universities must add an extra year to bring all students up to speed.

Bear in mind that the most arts and humanities degrees are already three years. Trinity degrees being the exception.

Mully_2011 · 21-12-2012 07:13PM

So if I have a ordinary degree (180 credits) I can go and do a masters in the UK or Europe ??

steddyeddy · 21-12-2012 07:24PM

Mully_2011 wrote: »

So if I have a ordinary degree (180 credits) I can go and do a masters in the UK or Europe ??

For science its a 2.1 minimum ro do a masters.

asphalt_jungle · 21-12-2012 07:29PM

Mully_2011 wrote: »

So if I have a ordinary degree (180 credits) I can go and do a masters in the UK or Europe ??

A Qualifying Degree for a Master's at the University of Helsinki for example(within top 100 worldwide) requires 180 ECTS(Ordinary Degree) credits for entry to a Master's. It's confusing. In general, they don't recognise studies over 3 years as Bachelors level study.

http://www.helsinki.fi/tutkinnonuudistus/english/structure_B_M_degrees.html

ZzubZzub · 21-12-2012 07:38PM

The nursing degree in the UK takes 3 years because students are either in uni or on placement for 11 months of the year.. And the NHS pays for the course. Good times.

steddyeddy · 21-12-2012 07:40PM

Cleeo wrote: »

The nursing degree in the UK takes 3 years because students are either in uni or on placement for 11 months of the year.. And the NHS pays for the course. Good times.

And UK nurses have a sexy english accent in my experience :-P. Good times!

ZzubZzub · 21-12-2012 07:43PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

And UK nurses have a sexy english accent in my experience :-P. Good times!

Not in Essex they don't...

Strawberry Fields · 21-12-2012 07:46PM

Commerce in UCD is 3 years. Depends on the course
Most UCD are 3 years

Magill · 21-12-2012 07:47PM

4 Year degrees in the north for a lot of courses too. Mine is a 4 year, mandatory placement in 3rd year. 5 years for a masters (BEng Hons Software Engineering is my course title) you need a 1st to have your costs covered by the university, but you can pay your own fees with a 2:1.

Same with all the Software Eng/Comp Sci/ICT/Engineering degrees here i think. Would imagine 4 years of study being a bit of a waste really (At least in my subject).

steddyeddy · 21-12-2012 07:48PM

Cleeo wrote: »

Not in Essex they don't...

Oh yes they do!!

steddyeddy · 21-12-2012 08:28PM

Ziphius wrote: »

As steddyeddy said, perhaps Irish students aren't as well prepared as their UK counterparts. A levels subjects are taught in much greater depth than their Leaving cert equivalents. So, perhaps, UK universities can start their programmes at a higher level whereas Irish universities must add an extra year to bring all students up to speed.

Bear in mind that the most arts and humanities degrees are already three years. Trinity degrees being the exception.

That's it in a nutshell! The A-level subjects explain some aspects of biology really well. Only when we get rid of our system can we get rid of our first "general" year.

sock puppet · 21-12-2012 08:59PM

srsly78 wrote: »

The Bologna process standardised all of this.

In England a 4 year course usually gives a Masters. Our 4 year courses give Hons Degree. Internationally this is recognised to be the same thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bologna_Process

That's a bit confusing no? I mean would most people who stay in academia not do go on to do a PHD after doing a masters (the 4th year of their course) in the UK. Whereas after a four year degree in Trinity most students would go on to a masters, even if they went to the UK?

Why are Degree courses in Ireland 4 years?

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