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Fat acceptance?

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    #62
    davet82
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,753 ✭✭✭davet82


    jaffacakesyum wrote: »
    But you can't deny that it is more popular to bash the fatties than the skinny models :rolleyes:

    thats true but its more socailly acceptable to be obese, if you are to go under a certain weight people will more likely intervene, if you go over a certain weight, people will stand by and watch and take the píss take out of you...

    they both have ups and down side to the disorder but both are equally bad to your health


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    #63
    dark crystal
    Registered Users Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    Ihatecuddles wrote: »
    Bullsh*t....
    You often see magazines banging on about dangerously under weight certain celebrities are. Nicole Ritchie, Victoria Beckham, Mary Kate olsen, lindsey lohan, mischa barton...

    It's JUST as unacceptable in the publics eyes. We don't want to see size 0 runway models. Huge campaigns, 0 is not a size etc...

    Try reading Vogue instead of Now! and you might see where I'm coming from.


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    #64
    davet82
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,753 ✭✭✭davet82


    dark crystal wrote: »

    Also, I'm sure you're right that no-one would say anorexics were healthy either, but there'd be less of a jokey vibe about it for sure.

    It's a moot point anyway, as you'll never really see the same type of thread posted up about skinny people, 'cos they just ain't as 'funny'.

    thats because most people find them more disgusting and shocking I reckon.

    I think the artist has sent out a mixed message which may not have been his intention but i cant help feel these women in these pictures have been explioted somehow


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    #65
    Ihatecuddles-old
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,785 ✭✭✭Ihatecuddles-old


    davet82 wrote: »

    thats true but its more socailly acceptable to be obese, if you are to go under a certain weight people will more likely intervene, if you go over a certain weight, people will stand by and watch and take the píss take out of you...

    they both have ups and down side to the disorder but both are equally bad to your health

    I could be very wrong but I thought its far more dangerous to be under weight? Even when you Are a healthy weight again you've already done irreversible damage to your body. Teeth, bones, hair and nails even.

    I must be wrong, they are both as bad I'd say.


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    #66
    Ihatecuddles-old
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,785 ✭✭✭Ihatecuddles-old


    dark crystal wrote: »

    Try reading Vogue instead of Now! and you might see where I'm coming from.

    Do me a favour? Google vogue campaign against size 0...

    It's changing, whether you like to believe it or not. The world is just as disgusted by size 0 ....I don't keep my nose in runway magazines and I don't care about high fashion, so I see a lot less of the size 0 models, but I do know the world wants it to change and there's so many campaigns to get it done. ALso, campaigns for more plus size models. Ralph Lauren and vogue both using them instead of size 0 recently.


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    #67
    Cee-Jay-Cee
    Registered Users Posts: 12,235 ✭✭✭✭Cee-Jay-Cee


    Those women are morbidly obese and are at serious risk of heart/ major organ failure. They may have willingly posed for those photos in order to try and gain social acceptance but the sad thing is, no matter how content with their size they say they are, given a choice they'd all rather be a healthy weight. There are countless programs on tv about people that size and they're incapable of walking ore than a few steps, they are unable to use conventional furniture or travel by bus or plane without special arrangements being made for them and in a lot of cases because of their size they're incapable of doing simple every day things like washing themselves or showering without help. Nothing they could say would convince me otherwise.


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    #68
    mconigol
    Registered Users Posts: 1,583 ✭✭✭mconigol


    Sad.


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    #69
    Icyseanfitz
    Registered Users Posts: 7,409 ✭✭✭Icyseanfitz


    Ihatecuddles wrote: »
    I associate cuddles with feelings and I don't like people knowing I Have those...

    Why didn't my daddy love me Mr panda?!

    probably because you hated cuddles, tis a vicious circle


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    #70
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    The problem is, how exactly does one define "fat"? I have friends who've called girls we know "fat" when in fact that they mean is "You can't actually see her ribcage when she wears a bikini" - which is something that I actually find a massive turn off to begin with but some others think is "slim".

    One does not simply differentiate between being "fat" and actually having some flesh.
    So when we talk of "fat acceptance" what exactly are we talking about? Accepting genuine obesity or accepting that the vast multitudes of sexy women who look in the mirror and hate what they see are actually perfectly normal?

    If it's the latter, I'm all for it. I've been with so many genuinely sexy girls who call themselves fat that it's ridiculous at this stage, you don't have to look like a xylophone to be hot, dammit!


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    #71
    Shryke
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,199 ✭✭✭Shryke


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    The problem is, how exactly does one define "fat"? I have friends who've called girls we know "fat" when in fact that they mean is "You can't actually see her ribcage when she wears a bikini" - which is something that I actually find a massive turn off to begin with but some others think is "slim".

    One does not simply differentiate between being "fat" and actually having some flesh.
    So when we talk of "fat acceptance" what exactly are we talking about? Accepting genuine obesity or accepting that the vast multitudes of sexy women who look in the mirror and hate what they see are actually perfectly normal?

    If it's the latter, I'm all for it. I've been with so many genuinely sexy girls who call themselves fat that it's ridiculous at this stage, you don't have to look like a xylophone to be hot, dammit!

    This is an absolute muddle of a post.
    Click on the link in the OP will you. That's the kind of fat that we're talking about.


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    #72
    Ihatecuddles-old
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,785 ✭✭✭Ihatecuddles-old


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    The problem is, how exactly does one define "fat"? I have friends who've called girls we know "fat" when in fact that they mean is "You can't actually see her ribcage when she wears a bikini" - which is something that I actually find a massive turn off to begin with but some others think is "slim".

    One does not simply differentiate between being "fat" and actually having some flesh.
    So when we talk of "fat acceptance" what exactly are we talking about? Accepting genuine obesity or accepting that the vast multitudes of sexy women who look in the mirror and hate what they see are actually perfectly normal?

    If it's the latter, I'm all for it. I've been with so many genuinely sexy girls who call themselves fat that it's ridiculous at this stage, you don't have to look like a xylophone to be hot, dammit!

    That's what I was trying to say but couldn't. I know so many girls who are so self critical, when they have amazing figures and are very sexy. If you're seen to have confidence others sometimes see you as full of yourself...


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    #73
    blacklilly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,687 ✭✭✭blacklilly


    That's it exactly, I've plenty of friends whom I would consider underweight and my other friends (normal gorgeous figures) are envious of their figures , its as if they can't see their true body shape.
    There's underweight, normal, overweight, obese and morbidly obese.
    A lot of people fall into the normal to overweight range and I see nothing particularly wrong with this.
    Everyone knows obesity is not good but who is anyone to ridicule/judge anyone else for the way they look.
    We should all stop judging others and put more time and effort into making ourselves better people.


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    #74
    davet82
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,753 ✭✭✭davet82


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    The problem is, how exactly does one define "fat"? I have friends who've called girls we know "fat" when in fact that they mean is "You can't actually see her ribcage when she wears a bikini" - which is something that I actually find a massive turn off to begin with but some others think is "slim".

    One does not simply differentiate between being "fat" and actually having some flesh.
    So when we talk of "fat acceptance" what exactly are we talking about? Accepting genuine obesity or accepting that the vast multitudes of sexy women who look in the mirror and hate what they see are actually perfectly normal?

    If it's the latter, I'm all for it. I've been with so many genuinely sexy girls who call themselves fat that it's ridiculous at this stage, you don't have to look like a xylophone to be hot, dammit!

    that is all true but that post dosen't belong in this thread, like Shryke posted click on the link!


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    #75
    davet82
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,753 ✭✭✭davet82


    blacklilly wrote: »
    Everyone knows obesity is not good but who is anyone to ridicule/judge anyone else for the way they look.
    We should all stop judging others and put more time and effort into making ourselves better people.

    Thats all well and good but we should not accept it or encourage it?


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    #76
    Clarehobo
    Registered Users Posts: 420 ✭✭Clarehobo


    Shryke wrote: »
    This is an absolute muddle of a post.
    Click on the link in the OP will you. That's the kind of fat that we're talking about.

    I think their point was that different people find different levels of fat disgusting - some people think if you can't see someone's rib cage they are fat, so they would find those girls without visible ribs just as repulsive as you find the ones in the pictures...


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    #77
    roadrunner16
    Registered Users Posts: 1,006 ✭✭✭roadrunner16


    Shenshen wrote: »
    I know I'll be shouted out of this thread for saying it, but we should encourage people to like themselves.
    Once we've accomplished that, we should help those who want to change themselves.

    At the end of the day, people will always be different, and will always like different things.
    I'm at work and don't think I should click your link right now, but I am fat myself.
    I'm losing weight, I've lost 20 kg over the last year and am continuing on, but I do NOT want to become skinny either, just because the ITG mentality would not accept me otherwise.

    I like chubby people. I married a chubby man, and I plan on remaining chubby myself.
    I don't need "encouragement" for that from anyone, but I can do without the sanctimonious "I've only got your best interest at heart" condescension, thank you very much.

    I understand where you are coming from but there is nothing ok about saying that being over weight is acceptable , its sets a bad example for young children, how many times have I seen over weight parents with an overweight child. As soon as someone who is overweight is accepted then the external pressure for them to change is gone. Im not saying that people should all be the same and conform to notions of beauty but this lark about big beautiful women. I cant understand that at all.


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    #78
    davet82
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,753 ✭✭✭davet82


    roadrunner16 wrote: »
    I understand where you are coming from but there is nothing ok about saying that being over weight is acceptable , its sets a bad example for young children, how many times have I seen over weight parents with an overweight child. As soon as someone who is overweight is accepted then the external pressure for them to change is gone. Im not saying that people should all be the same and conform to notions of beauty but this lark about big beautiful women. I cant understand that at all.


    Funny thing is we see a parent with an overweight child we shake our heads, we see a parent with an under weight child we'd probably call social services, makes ye think...


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    #79
    roadrunner16
    Registered Users Posts: 1,006 ✭✭✭roadrunner16


    davet82 wrote: »
    Funny thing is we see a parent with an overweight child we shake our heads, we see a parent with an under weight child we'd probably call social services, makes ye think...

    I have never seen a parent with an under weight child. :confused: but I would agree that overweight people are bigger targets for abuse than underweight people. Pun intended


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    #80
    blacklilly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,687 ✭✭✭blacklilly


    davet82 wrote: »

    Thats all well and good but we should not accept it or encourage it?
    firstly at present obesity is not encouraged and nor do I think it should be.
    There will always be obese people and instead of treating them like second class citizens and telling them how awful, repulsive (not my words) we should instead treat them on a human level.
    For years and years I was so caught up with, my own body image. I've never been obese but I was so conscious of other peoples thoughts and did I fit in etc. It's all bulls*it, no one should live by anyone else's perceived ideals when it comes to body issues.

    You're either:
    Too tall
    Too small
    Too skinny
    Too fat
    Have big hips
    No hips
    Breasts are too big or too small
    Have crucket teeth
    Have a big arse/flat arse/small arse
    Body too toned/not toned enough
    The list goes on and on and on and although you'll be initially attracted to someone based on their looks I'd rather just judge people based on their person.


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    #81
    YFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    Any of the pictures photoshopped?


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    #82
    davet82
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,753 ✭✭✭davet82


    blacklilly wrote: »
    firstly at present obesity is not

    But thats what this artist is doing by calling it fat accpetance when its clearly obesity and sending out the message that its ok when its clearly not


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    #83
    davet82
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,753 ✭✭✭davet82


    YFlyer wrote: »
    Any of the pictures photoshopped?

    well if they've photoshopped them so they look better, god help them!


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    #84
    blacklilly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,687 ✭✭✭blacklilly


    davet82 wrote: »

    But thats what this artist is doing by calling it fat accpetance when its clearly obesity and sending out the message that its ok when its clearly not

    He is one artist, he obviously likes obese women. That's his choice


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    #85
    davet82
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,753 ✭✭✭davet82


    blacklilly wrote: »
    He is one artist, he obviously likes obese women. That's his choice

    Thats fine but you don't have to have an exhabition promoting an extremely unhealthy lifestyle


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    #86
    blacklilly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,687 ✭✭✭blacklilly


    davet82 wrote: »

    Thats fine but you don't have to have an exhabition promoting an extremely unhealthy lifestyle

    Well he has freedom to do this and the women have given consent. You don't have to look at it. Most people i.e the vast majority know obesity is bad, one artist's opinion is not going to change that


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    #87
    davet82
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,753 ✭✭✭davet82


    blacklilly wrote: »
    Well he has freedom to do this and the women have given consent. You don't have to look at it. Most people i.e the vast majority know obesity is bad, one artist's opinion is not going to change that

    Thats true but i think there would be more condemnation if he was promoting anorexics and photographing them like this and calling it 'thin women appreciation day'


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    #88
    dark crystal
    Registered Users Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    davet82 wrote: »
    Thats all well and good but we should not accept it or encourage it?

    Not encourage it, no. But I don't really think it helps people who are morbidly obese to be constantly denegrated and humiliated either. I'd say this only encourages their low self-esteem and perpetuates the eating cycle.

    I'd say many obese people never actually look at themselves naked and perhaps photographs like these might actually help them to accept they may need to lose some weight. Or perhaps it might help them to know there are other women in the same boat and make them feel less like the freaks they're often held up as.

    Either way, I don't really think it's anyone else's place to accept them or not. Ultimately, it's their body, their decision.


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    #89
    Sitec
    Registered Users Posts: 2,964 ✭✭✭Sitec


    To be honest who actually gives a ****? The only reason the photograph is in "The Sun" is to cause debate.


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    #90
    davet82
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,753 ✭✭✭davet82


    dark crystal wrote: »
    Not encourage it, no. But I don't really think it helps people who are morbidly obese to be constantly denegrated and humiliated either. I'd say this only encourages their low self-esteem and perpetuates the eating cycle.

    I'd say many obese people never actually look at themselves naked and perhaps photographs like these might actually help them to accept they may need to lose some weight. Or perhaps it might help them to know there are other women in the same boat and make them feel less like the freaks they're often held up as.

    Either way, I don't really think it's anyone else's place to accept them or not. Ultimately, it's their body, their decision.

    I would agree with the basics of what you are saying but I really do believe this artist and his fat appreciation day is doing these women no favours, i can only imagine him exploiting them by telling them how great they look and they should embrace who they are, despite it killing them in the end, a little melodramatic i know! :)


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    #91
    Czarcasm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    This "artist" (and I use the term loosely, because to me they come off as just an attention seeker moreso than an artist!) is doing nothing new, and you don't need to have studied art history to be able to say that rotund women in society and art is nothing new. It's a concept that has been around since the beginning of time, more recently in Victorian era art where being a rotund woman was seen not just as socially acceptable, but socially desirable!

    Also the popular media in the western world view takes no account of cultures in Africa and Asia where rotund women are revered for their appearance because in some cultures it symbolises wealth and fertility!

    I myself prefer a rotund woman, but the women in those particular photos represent a completely exaggerated distortion of the female form. They appeal to a very niche subset of society that are more commonly known as "fat feeders". The photos in my mind appear to be less about "fat acceptance" and more about just going for sheer shock factor.

    I could appreciate the intention if the "artist" truly had the intention of art for art's sake in mind, but taking advantage of these women to garner attention for themselves, disguised as social commentary, strikes me as nothing but reprehensible and irresponsible attention seeking.

    Freak shows were also a popular pastime in the Victorian era, and to my mind that's all this publicity stunt is- a freak show.


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