The Dark Knight Rises - seen thread SPOILERS WITHIN See Mod Warning in first post

jpm4 · 13-12-2012 07:31PM

krudler wrote: »

It only seems to be a recent thing, ripping every detail of movies apart, Die Hard probably has rakes of "plot holes" but who gives a ****, its 25 years old and still one of the best action movies ever made. sure look at Home Alone, christmas favourite that the entire premise could have been resolved with Culkin just ringing the cops himself or taking a wander to one of the neighbours houses and telling someone two guys are planning to break in, dont overthink things.

25 years ago people didn't have the internet.

In fairness I think you can make a point that blockbusters these days seem increasingly overlong and convoluted. Die Hard may well be full of plot holes but I guess it is also fairly straight forward plot wise, has a manageable number of main characters and most importantly a protagonist that seems like an average joe you can identify with or at least like. It gets the basics right in other words.

ancapailldorcha · 13-12-2012 08:07PM

It's only fairly recently that I've noticed this. You make a fair point about the lead protagonist being an average Joe. Every time I see a fair take on a film, I'll see piles more videos, blogs and the like moaning about really minor things or passing these observations off as jokes, something which I just can't seem to find funny.

uncleoswald · 13-12-2012 08:23PM

krudler wrote: »

It only seems to be a recent thing, ripping every detail of movies apart,

It something that I first noticed in the redlettermedia reviews of the Star Wars prequels. But the difference is I feel he did it effectively and from the other way round. He started by looking at the overarching laziness and ineptitude of storytelling in the movies and broke them down to a scene by scene level and then tied it all back to show the rot at the very core of Lucas's entire approach to the prequels. And most importantly he was funny.

Now it seems like people are just shouting "Look! A plot hole! This proves the whole movie is sh*t!"

krudler · 13-12-2012 08:54PM

uncleoswald wrote: »

It something that I first noticed in the redlettermedia reviews of the Star Wars prequels. But the difference is I feel he did it effectively and from the other way round. He started by looking at the overarching laziness and ineptitude of storytelling in the movies and broke them down to a scene by scene level and then tied it all back to show the rot at the very core of Lucas's entire approach to the prequels. And most importantly he was funny.

Now it seems like people are just shouting "Look! A plot hole! This proves the whole movie is sh*t!"

I'm all for deconstructing a film's failings or triumphs when its justified but then there's just ludicrous nitpicking like "how does Bane eat!?" It doesn't matter!

^I totally typed that with Bane's voice in my head btw.

e_e · 13-12-2012 09:05PM

Why is there a seemingly infinite number of school buses at the start of The Dark Knight yet they NEVER appear in the rest of the whole trilogy?

I demand an answer! Exaggerations (read: directors taking artistic licenses) in big budget action movies utterly offend me for some reason.

cloud493 · 13-12-2012 09:30PM

Sure thats school leaving time

joker must have had a watch or something.

eh i dunno · 13-12-2012 09:48PM

Havent seen any of the 3 Dark Knight films. Debating getting the box set. Anyone know how much it is in any Dublin shops?

Josey Wales · 13-12-2012 10:17PM

eh i dunno wrote: »

Havent seen any of the 3 Dark Knight films. Debating getting the box set. Anyone know how much it is in any Dublin shops?

Wow. I would love to be in that position again so I could enjoy them all again for the first time.

cloud493 · 13-12-2012 10:22PM

Josey Wales wrote: »

Wow. I would love to be in that position again so I could enjoy them all again for the first time.

Same. Arguably my favorite film trilogy, except for maybe toy story.

Gamb!t · 13-12-2012 11:52PM

indough wrote: »

There is no ambiguity whatsoever, the film clearly shows you that he survived. In fact, it actually shows you this in several ways just so that there could/should be no ambiguity

Exactly,the missing pearls,the bat signal restored,the software patch on the bat,Bruce in the Cafe even the music changes and is more upbeat once all these things are revealed.

dirkmeister · 14-12-2012 12:59AM

I enjoyed seeing Bruce alive at the end. At the end of the day it's a superhero film.

I remember people giving out with the ending of Inception, about the screen suddenly going blank, if Nolan didn't show Bruce, would the same people be giving out now?

14-12-2012 02:42AM

Gamb!t wrote: »

Exactly,the missing pearls,the bat signal restored,the software patch on the bat,Bruce in the Cafe even the music changes and is more upbeat once all these things are revealed.

You can't expect people to notice the score. Yes they'll make a vague complaint about it not being as good as something else but you can't expect them to stand over it.

Gamb!t · 14-12-2012 09:25AM

Deleted User wrote: »

You can't expect people to notice the score. Yes they'll make a vague complaint about it not being as good as something else but you can't expect them to stand over it.

It attributes to the other points in the post,he lives !

s_dev · 14-12-2012 09:31AM

Did anyone think that the prison wasn't that bad, prisoners helping each other and cheering at their escape attempts, seems like a decent prison maybe the cons just didn't like bain.

DirkVoodoo · 14-12-2012 11:39AM

s_dev wrote: »

Did anyone think that the prison wasn't that bad, prisoners helping each other and cheering at their escape attempts, seems like a decent prison maybe the cons just didn't like bain.

I think every "plot hole" in this movie can be explained when people sit down and think for a minute. It's something that, as audiences, we've been stripped of in recent years. Everything has to be explained the most minute detail.

Ok, so the prison was called "hell on earth" because, as Bain says, without true hope, there can't be true despair.

We also know, that the league of shadows stormed the prison when Talia came back to rescue Bain. It's not a huge stretch to see that the prison she and Bain were in is not the same one that Bruce is in, the criminals aren't a rampaging mob.

The conclusion I came to, is that after she freed Bain, it was perhaps used by the League of Shadows to imprison anyone who crossed them, such as Bain's fumbling doctor. These are old men, probably political prisoners more than murderous thugs, of course they were glad to see Bruce climb to freedom, it's what they have all dreamed of doing.

And if they were simply political prisoners of the league, then it makes even more sense that Bruce would throw a rope back down to the bottom to allow them all climb to freedom...assuming they had the upper body strength. I remember gym class, I wouldn't have got 6 feet up that rope.

s_dev · 14-12-2012 11:53AM

Good point,
I loved the film and thats about the only thing I wondered abotu

DirkVoodoo · 14-12-2012 12:08PM

s_dev wrote: »

Good point,
I loved the film and thats about the only thing I wondered abotu

Love it too. Anything that's troubled me has easily been discussed with my brother.

How did Bruce Wayne get back to Gotham with no money was one of mine: Easy answer = he is Batman.

Answer using trilogy as reference = he spent 8 years travelling the world before even becoming Batman, with no money (just a bum's coat that he bought) after stowing away on a ship. It's reasonable to assume that someone of his intelligence, resourcefulness and experience could find a way from where he was back into Gotham with no money.

Anyway, I don't think any film is perfect. I think people like to bash Batman because of its success. No one bashed Begins as much because there wasn't as much hype surrounding it, even though there are probably as many flaws in it. But, within the universe Nolan created, everything is consistent. It's not totally realistic, but it gives us a glimpse of what a realistic Batman might be like.

As a trilogy that deconstructed the man behind the mask, it's flawless. I can't quite remember any trilogy that gives a beginning, middle and end with such consistency of direction, story telling and acting. It's all quality.

Right down to the final track "Rise" - when we sight Bruce Wayne and the music kicks off, everything is rounded off perfectly. Batman has risen to be the hero that Gotham deserved and Bruce has risen out of his personal torment and started to live the life Alfred hoped he would have.

s_dev · 14-12-2012 12:33PM

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Anyway, I don't think any film is perfect. I think people like to bash Batman because of its success. No one bashed Begins as much because there wasn't as much hype surrounding it, even though there are probably as many flaws in it. But, within the universe Nolan created, everything is consistent. It's not totally realistic, but it gives us a glimpse of what a realistic Batman might be like.

Yeah I think most of the critics that gave the film a bad review done so because it was the 'cool' thing to do, in the same way that they reviewed the first 2 films favourably.

The Batman films have completely transformed the genre and are the benchmark.

grames_bond · 14-12-2012 01:00PM

Selina: "I can't even get off the island"

Bruce: "I can get you off"

How? BECAUSE he found a way into Gotham from the prison - so he can get Selina off too the same way - it's a little nod that doesn't need explanation imo!

Also I BET Bruce can get Selina off!!

fluke · 14-12-2012 01:56PM

s_dev wrote: »

Yeah I think most of the critics that gave the film a bad review done so because it was the 'cool' thing to do, in the same way that they reviewed the first 2 films favourably.

The Batman films have completely transformed the genre and are the benchmark.

+1

This has happened so many times. Even in reviews of other films people have thrown in disparaging comment on TDKR.

Penn · 14-12-2012 03:28PM

fluke wrote: »

+1

This has happened so many times. Even in reviews of other films people have thrown in disparaging comment on TDKR.

I disagree to be honest. Some, perhaps. But I think the film was a victim of its own hype, and the success of the previous film. A lot of people (reviewers included) judged it by a higher standard than they would for most films.

fluke · 14-12-2012 03:44PM

Penn wrote: »

I disagree to be honest. Some, perhaps. But I think the film was a victim of its own hype, and the success of the previous film. A lot of people (reviewers included) judged it by a higher standard than they would for most films.

Comparatively the hype for this film was somewhat muted with a modest viral campaign. They hype others built around it...well it was never going to top that. and lots of people wanted to compare it to The Avengers too (especially in tones of one of them is better than the other, they both can't be good).

As for it's comparisons to the previous film it's a more personal film than The Dark Knight so it never reaches those zany heights because it has a different approach. The Dark Knight is the grandest of the three but I'm glad they brought back a lot more of Bruce's journey into this one.

cloud493 · 14-12-2012 06:14PM

I'd still put the dark knight first, in my personal first, but even though I said before begins was the weakest(in my opinion) they're still all absolutely brilliant. Not a bad one in the three.

jpm4 · 14-12-2012 07:26PM

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

I think every "plot hole" in this movie can be explained when people sit down and think for a minute.

Another and maybe more accurate way of putting it might be "that every 'plot hole' in the film can be explained if you like Nolan's Batman enough".

Jumboman · 14-12-2012 08:01PM

Anyone find it strange that billionaire bruce wayne would want to settle down with a low life criminal who almost had him killed ? Is wayne not meant to oppose crime and criminal scumbags ?

Bullseye1 · 14-12-2012 08:09PM

Selena Kyle is hardly a scumbag.

ancapailldorcha · 14-12-2012 08:11PM

cloud493 wrote: »

I'd still put the dark knight first, in my personal first, but even though I said before begins was the weakest(in my opinion) they're still all absolutely brilliant. Not a bad one in the three.

I reckon TDK's the weakest of the three, mainly because it becomes more about the Joker and less about Batman. It's an awesome film but the others focus on specific parts of Bruce's journey while TDK only tries to deal with how far he is willing to go.

Nervous Wreck · 14-12-2012 08:23PM

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I reckon TDK's the weakest of the three, mainly because it becomes more about the Joker and less about Batman. It's an awesome film but the others focus on specific parts of Bruce's journey while TDK only tries to deal with how far he is willing to go.

And how he wants to escape his life as Batman and be with Rachel. And how the only positive thing in his life is taken away because of his commitment to fighting crime. And how, as Batman, he pushes through that to keep fighting crime and achieve his goal of bringing peace to Gotham. It's very much a film about Bruce, in fairness, there's just a lot more going on as well.

ancapailldorcha · 14-12-2012 08:33PM

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

And how he wants to escape his life as Batman and be with Rachel. And how the only positive thing in his life is taken away because of his commitment to fighting crime. And how, as Batman, he pushes through that to keep fighting crime and achieve his goal of bringing peace to Gotham. It's very much a film about Bruce, in fairness, there's just a lot more going on as well.

I'd forgotten about that. Like I said, all 3 are amazing films.

Oafley Jones · 14-12-2012 08:44PM

s_dev wrote: »

Yeah I think most of the critics that gave the film a bad review done so because it was the 'cool' thing to do, in the same way that they reviewed the first 2 films favourably.

Or maybe because it's a bit ****e. I keep meaning to dissemble TDKR because it's kinda of baffling how they got so much wrong with this one. On basic character level stuff, plot structure, dialogue etc. it amazes me that people give movie a pass let alone the glowing recommendations.

The Dark Knight Rises - seen thread *SPOILERS WITHIN* See Mod Warning in first post

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The Dark Knight Rises - seen thread SPOILERS WITHIN See Mod Warning in first post