Nice guys should just accept bachelorhood?

Wibbs · 12-12-2012 09:27PM

limklad wrote: »

Most nice guys I know I have seen married, fall over flat or jump high at their wife every whim and she treats him like a slave, even insults or degrade him with a smile in front of others.

That's not a nice guy, that's a doormat.

DenMan · 12-12-2012 09:44PM

Wibbs wrote: »

The amount of women mates that have related stories like yours Beks(damn near exactly) is quite eye opening.

This part;

I reckon is the sound of nails being hit squarely on the head. Other than the actual loopers, the women I've known who've gone through a "bad boy" phase(and luckily it's usually a phase) are most often younger women with little experience of men and especially little experience of actual good men. The displays of arseholes can be easily confused for socially mature men. Certainly when compared to the men with "nice guy syndrome".

The socially and emotionally mature guy is confident in company. Doesn't mean he has to be the "life and soul", simply that he's comfortable in the back and forth of conversation. The mature guy is more forward with women. He's also more confident in making decisions(this is a biggie. So many men are of the "ah sure whatever you'd like" and this drives women mad for the most part). The mature guy is also emotionally mature, more stable in emotions over time and so doesn't tend to go overboard(like in one of B's examples)

All of these are also to be found in the bad boy type at least they appear that way at first glance. Being "over the top" in company can be confused with social comfort. Being a bit of a sleaze can be seen as comfort with coming forward with women. Being "cold/playing hard to get can be seen as level emotions. He's certainly not coming accross as over eager and desperate. If a woman is starting out it's easy to be confused by this, but after a couple of dickheads she'll quickly realise that these triggers are all surface as is the emotional maturity of such types.

Now compare that to the steretypical "nice guy". Tends not to understand social cues, especially in the opposite sex. Tends to not come forward with romantic intentions, hides them(badly) or goes way overboard. Emotionally can be non commital or really bloody scary(I know you an hour lets get married and have babies).

Of course these are stereotypes, but just making a thumbnail sketch. That said I do feel sorry for some "nice guys". They may actually be nice men underneath, but have missed an important phase in adolescence where you can work this guff out, make mistakes and not be badly affected by them. Stuff that's daft or embarrassing at 16, looks really odd and can really exclude someone romantically if they do similar at 26. There are a lot of these young(and not so young) men like this out there. The PUA shíte being so popular is a symptom of that. Sadly they're not getting the right kind of help with that guff and some can get really sucked into the whole thing. It becomes a bloody cult for them. Understandably as some get some success from it. The main reason why, is because the PUA stuff teaches them to approach as many women as possible. So some shy guy whose never gone up to a woman before, then goes up to 30 and he "gets" one of them. He's gonna think "OHMIGOD it works!!" and can get deeper into it.

WTF!!! You have far too much time on your hands. That post sounds like something written by a machine after sifting through gossip and relationship magazines. It’s like a published article without any feeling to it! Women will always be attracted to a bad boy because deep down she will want to try and change him to suit her, it’s the challenge that keeps her focused. The idea of a nice guy ticks all the boxes as he will just roll over and allow himself to be dominated by a woman and after a while she will tire of him and be bored of his submissiveness. He’s too weak and that’s not what anybody wants in a relationship. There’s no teasing, no surprises and the unexpected doesn’t exist, and the sex may be boring! Nice guys are good but they are timid and will roll over too easy. Women want to be protected and a bad boy is more honest and upfront!

Hippies! · 12-12-2012 09:48PM

This thread is amazeballs. Totes serious loike guys I'm learning loads. If I couple the excellent points in this thread with 50 Shades of Grey then I'll be set.

PatL23 · 12-12-2012 09:58PM

Say it Aint So wrote: »

People say that they are nice guys when they don't try approach women, are too meek to drive a conversation with a women and are too afraid to make it explicitly know that they are interested/attracted in the girl.

A better phrase would be 'Afraid Guy'. All there is to be afraid of is rejection.

Anyone disagree?

This is me nearly 100% to be honest. I keep telling myself consciously that i know that a certain woman or women wont like me or even be interested to talk to me so i wont talk to her/them. This is caused by my low self-esteem, I not that bad looking of a guy(IMO) At, but when i feel id love go talk to a certain girl, or a girl seems the slightly interested in me, my self-esteem hits rock bottom.

Some might say that it is a fear of rejection, but im not sure.
I really dont know and it really effects my life.
All of my friends have shifted/kissed countless women and have been in relationships.
But i have not kissed any, now im only 20 years old, but i really feel lonely at times.

God i hate my life.

MadYaker · 12-12-2012 10:03PM

^^ might be better suited to P.I forum. But imo rejection seems like the worst thing imaginable until you get rejected once or twice and then you realise its actually not that bad at all. It's certainly easier to deal with then living a life of lonelyness because you are too afraid to talk to girls. I used to a bit like you, not as bad maybe, but I was certainly a bit nervous about approaching women until eventually I grew a pair and just started doing it. It makes you a lot more self confident which most women find attractive.

Look at the last 4 threads the O.P has started, I see a trend.

12-12-2012 10:12PM

DenMan wrote: »

Women will always be attracted to a bad boy because deep down she will want to try and change him to suit her, it’s the challenge that keeps her focused. The idea of a nice guy ticks all the boxes as he will just roll over and allow himself to be dominated by a woman and after a while she will tire of him and be bored of his submissiveness.

You're obviously a mind reader/psychic. Thanks for clearing up what I really want in a man.

LuckyLloyd · 12-12-2012 10:12PM

Wibbs wrote: »

That said I do feel sorry for some "nice guys". They may actually be nice men underneath, but have missed an important phase in adolescence where you can work this guff out, make mistakes and not be badly affected by them. Stuff that's daft or embarrassing at 16, looks really odd and can really exclude someone romantically if they do similar at 26. There are a lot of these young(and not so young) men like this out there. The PUA shíte being so popular is a symptom of that. Sadly they're not getting the right kind of help with that guff and some can get really sucked into the whole thing. It becomes a bloody cult for them. Understandably as some get some success from it. The main reason why, is because the PUA stuff teaches them to approach as many women as possible. So some shy guy whose never gone up to a woman before, then goes up to 30 and he "gets" one of them. He's gonna think "OHMIGOD it works!!" and can get deeper into it.

Hmm, ah yes this sounds familiar. I think you've hit the nail on the head here!!

Madam_X · 12-12-2012 10:13PM

So women aren't into guys they find boring? How dreadful of them. And of course men are well up for women they find boring.

Limklad, the "truth" is there are less nice women than nice men? Or is it just how you choose to see things? I suspect the actual truth is: it's 50/50.

No, women don't all ultimately go for a bastard; most just want a man they love and who loves them.

seven_eleven · 12-12-2012 10:22PM

What annoys me about this thread is that nearly EVERYONE is generalising nice quiet people as those with social problems, bitter, sad, losers, no confidence etc.
Im a quiet person, I probably wont initiate much with females but you can damn bet Im secure and a confident person. I deal with people A LOT and love interracting etc. Im not some weirdo, nor am I misogynistic and bitter about women.

and as I've said before, I agree with a lot of the sentiment in here. Nobody wants a person that literally wont try what so ever, but dont paint all of us nice people as complete dickhéad gits. Its makes you look a bit hypocritical.

Madam_X · 12-12-2012 10:27PM

seven_eleven wrote: »

What annoys me about this thread is that nearly EVERYONE is generalising nice quiet people as those with social problems, bitter, sad, losers, no confidence etc.
Im a quiet person, I probably wont initiate much with females but you can damn bet Im secure and a confident person. I deal with people A LOT and love interracting etc. Im not some weirdo, nor am I misogynistic and bitter about women.

and as I've said before, I agree with a lot of the sentiment in here. Nobody wants a person that literally wont try what so ever, but dont paint all of us nice people as complete dickhéad gits. Its makes you look a bit hypocritical.

Extra cocky, loud, attention-seeking people aren't getting a good reception here either though!

Well it must suck to feel attacked but I really dont think people like you are being referred too, even if the language isn't specific enough.

Nothing wrong with being socially awkward and very shy (not you) either, if the person realises it's something that can be worked on and it's not the world being against them.

dd972 · 12-12-2012 10:31PM

seven_eleven wrote: »

What annoys me about this thread is that nearly EVERYONE is generalising nice quiet people as those with social problems, bitter, sad, losers, no confidence etc.
Im a quiet person, I probably wont initiate much with females but you can damn bet Im secure and a confident person. I deal with people A LOT and love interracting etc. Im not some weirdo, nor am I misogynistic and bitter about women.

and as I've said before, I agree with a lot of the sentiment in here. Nobody wants a person that literally wont try what so ever, but dont paint all of us nice people as complete dickhéad gits. Its makes you look a bit hypocritical.

Good point, there loads of cocky, aggressive loud mouths who women don't touch with a barge pole and lots of quiet guys who go about their business and hoover up the muff, sorry for the crudity of the description, even quiet lads like myself have an inner Jay from Inbetweeners :pac:

Daveysil15 · 12-12-2012 10:43PM

seven_eleven wrote: »

What annoys me about this thread is that nearly EVERYONE is generalising nice quiet people as those with social problems, bitter, sad, losers, no confidence etc.

You're right and even if that were the case, those are things that can be improved. A few people have mentioned finding a bad boy and then trying to change him. Why not try and change a nice guy? The quite ones can come out of their shell if coaxed the right way.

Scanlas The 2nd · 12-12-2012 10:52PM

Daveysil15 wrote: »

You're right and even if that were the case, those are things that can be improved. A few people have mentioned finding a bad boy and then trying to change him. Why not try and change a nice guy? The quite ones can come out of their shell if coaxed the right way.

I personally think the whole idea that women like bad boys because they can try and change him is nonsense. If that were the case why not try and change a homeless man.

They like bad boys because they are exciting and often have attractive traits such as confidence, dominance, assertiveness, funny etc..

I think it's just a rationalisation by women who say they wanted to change him. The truth is IMO they simply found him attractive despite his negative qualities.

jaffacakesyum · 12-12-2012 11:00PM

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

I personally think the whole idea that women like bad boys because they can try and change him is nonsense. If that were the case why not try and change a homeless man.

They like bad boys because they are exciting and often have attractive traits such as confidence, dominance, assertiveness, funny etc..

I think it's just a rationalisation by women who say they wanted to change him. The truth is IMO they simply found him attractive despite his negative qualities.

I know you're not saying all women like bad boys but do you (and everyone else on the thread) think that enough women "like bad boys" enough for it to be a stereotype? I really don't think so. I don't think I know any women who deliberately got with a "bad boy" and thought they could change him. Actually, I don't think I know any women who deliberately were attracted to a "bad boy" at all. I definitely know women who have been with d1ckheads but they, unfortunately, found that out at a later stage; it wasn't something that initially attracted them.

The whole "women are attracted to bad boys" thing just makes me cringe. Even typing it...it's such a cheesy generalisation.

Wibbs · 12-12-2012 11:10PM

DenMan wrote: »

WTF!!! You have far too much time on your hands.

More like too many hands on my time.

It’s like a published article without any feeling to it!

Given the current state of much of what does get published I could be on a financial winner here. I'm thinking the Indo is running out of ideas.... Sweet.

Hippies! wrote: »

This thread is amazeballs. Totes serious loike guys I'm learning loads. If I couple the excellent points in this thread with 50 Shades of Grey then I'll be set.

Plus if you sit in the corner of the nightclub casually licking your eyebrows you'll be in gravy H.

MadYaker wrote: »

imo rejection seems like the worst thing imaginable until you get rejected once or twice and then you realise its actually not that bad at all. It's certainly easier to deal with then living a life of lonelyness because you are too afraid to talk to girls.

This in a big way MY. What you may be nervous of, even when it gets shítty, it's far better than the alternative.

seven_eleven wrote: »

What annoys me about this thread is that nearly EVERYONE is generalising nice quiet people as those with social problems, bitter, sad, losers, no confidence etc.
Im a quiet person, I probably wont initiate much with females but you can damn bet Im secure and a confident person. I deal with people A LOT and love interracting etc. Im not some weirdo, nor am I misogynistic and bitter about women.

Like I said Seven, being "quiet" is not an issue. Not even close. You sound - like you say - secure and confident. Nothing like a weirdo at all. Being generally introverted doesn't make one a "weirdo", just as being generally extroverted doesn't make you an "arsehole".

Eve_Dublin · 12-12-2012 11:17PM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I think single guys/girls who complain about being single and not finding someone just use the "no nice guys/girls out there" as a handy excuse to blame someone else for their own shortcomings.

/thread

TheBegotten · 13-12-2012 12:00AM

What I do for all discussions of this style: C'est la vie.
Then I post this:

woodoo · 13-12-2012 12:13AM

Madam_X wrote: »

So women aren't into guys they find boring? How dreadful of them. And of course men are well up for women they find boring.

I agree.

This thread has been full of what women want and what men are lacking. There are all sorts of men and women out there. Not all women will get the cream of the crop and same for the men. There is only so many alpha's out there. Not all women are going to get them. There are as many dull, unattractive women as there are men don't forget.

764dak · 13-12-2012 08:26AM

This seems appropriate:

Handsome Bob · 13-12-2012 10:15AM

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

If that were the case why not try and change a homeless man.

Just to humour you, I guess it's because that for those who do like a "bad boy", they usually pick the ones that can look good on their arm. I mean for all the women that I know like this, I've near seen a 30 stone dickhead on their arm.

Duggy747 · 13-12-2012 11:00AM

Nice guys with a thinly veiled disrespect for women, meet your God:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0xoKiH8JJM

Women don't like doormats or guys who go out of their way to please them, they want someone with confidence and all that. Confidence which sometimes can be mistaken for dickheadedness from some female friends I know.

13-12-2012 11:03AM

S. De Sousa wrote: »

Just to humour you, I guess it's because that for those who do like a "bad boy", they usually pick the ones that can look good on their arm. I mean for all the women that I know like this, I've near seen a 30 stone dickhead on their arm.

Damn women, with their preference for a good looking partner. Not like guys at all to be like that.

Handsome Bob · 13-12-2012 11:09AM

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Damn women, with their preference for a good looking partner. Not like guys at all to be like that.

Never said I had a problem with that line of thinking.

laoch na mona · 13-12-2012 11:11AM

how does being nice mean you're not an alpha? alpha is the strongest you don't have to be a dick to be strong
also by OPs logic rapists are the ultimate alphas

Scanlas The 2nd · 13-12-2012 11:20AM

laoch na mona wrote: »

how does being nice mean you're not an alpha? alpha is the strongest you don't have to be a dick to be strong
also by OPs logic rapists are the ultimate alphas

I don't think the OP defined what alpha is to him.

Wibbs · 13-12-2012 11:26AM

I think if you're using words like alpha you're already on a hiding to nothing.

13-12-2012 11:26AM

DenMan wrote: »

Women will always be attracted to a bad boy because deep down she will want to try and change him to suit her,

All men are thick.

Hey look, generalisations are fun and accurate aren't they?

SafeSurfer · 13-12-2012 12:03PM

tonycascarino wrote: »

For every old sock there is an old shoe

This is simply untrue. I have many more socks than I have shoes. Also many more socks are produced annually than shoes. I would ask you to withdraw, withdraw, withdraw!

SafeSurfer · 13-12-2012 12:10PM

Wibbs wrote: »

I think if you're using words like alpha you're already on a hiding to nothing.

I think Alpha males do exist. Take Gehghis Khan for example, his genes are found in a high percentage of Eurasian males alive today. Similiarly Niall of the nine hostages, is a common ancestor of a large percentage of Irish males, especially in the north west.

Because of social changes though, the type of male that has multiple children to multiple partners today is likely to have low educational and employment attainment. Think Jeremy Kyle show.

Eve_Dublin · 13-12-2012 12:31PM

This thread hasn't gone so badly, actually! What a relief!!

Nice guys should just accept bachelorhood?

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