Homeland - Season 2 [Showtime - US] Spoilers!

JoeA3 · 11-12-2012 11:31AM

Agree with the last few comments. The show has jumped the shark. After a fantastic start to season two, it's gone to the dogs. It peaked in episode 3 (?) when they were interrogating Brody but ever since then the implausibility stakes have gone off the richter! It seems to me that they rushed into the capture / interrogation of Brody... they could have knocked several more episodes out of the surveillance operation.

Nazir was far more frightening when he was unseen or operating from the middle east. As soon as he turned up in the USA without the beard he turned into a cartoon James Bond villain and I can't take him seriously. It reminds me of the mistake that horror movie directors often seem to make! What you don't see on screen can be much scarier than what you do see. Think of the most frightening movies you've ever seen, and it's usually when the bad guy is unseen or is completely unpredictable that you are most scared.

Carrie's constant lone ranger routine is just plain daft and irritating, not to mention the sobbing love-struck teenager routine at the mere sight of Brody or in the Roya interrogation lastnight. I cannot believe the CIA would have such an unhinged individual within an asses roar of such a major operation!

Also pissed off that the one decent and intelligent operative in the team (Saul) is being completely shafted!

RodgersLFC · 11-12-2012 01:10PM

JoeA3 wrote: »

Agree with the last few comments. The show has jumped the shark. After a fantastic start to season two, it's gone to the dogs. It peaked in episode 3 (?) when they were interrogating Brody but ever since then the implausibility stakes have gone off the richter! It seems to me that they rushed into the capture / interrogation of Brody... they could have knocked several more episodes out of the surveillance operation.

Nazir was far more frightening when he was unseen or operating from the middle east. As soon as he turned up in the USA without the beard he turned into a cartoon James Bond villain and I can't take him seriously. It reminds me of the mistake that horror movie directors often seem to make! What you don't see on screen can be much scarier than what you do see. Think of the most frightening movies you've ever seen, and it's usually when the bad guy is unseen or is completely unpredictable that you are most scared.

Carrie's constant lone ranger routine is just plain daft and irritating, not to mention the sobbing love-struck teenager routine at the mere sight of Brody or in the Roya interrogation lastnight. I cannot believe the CIA would have such an unhinged individual within an asses roar of such a major operation!

Also pissed off that the one decent and intelligent operative in the team (Saul) is being completely shafted!

Agree completely. I have enjoyed the show but there's just too many unlikeable characters, ridiculous plot lines and over-hasty writing to keep me interested in season 3, i think. Its very hard to see where the show is going to go from here, as they seem to have pretty much blown their load on everything this season.

I hope they have a really spectacular ending to season 2 and then announce the show's cancellation. Its got nowhere left to go at this stage really.

TwoShedsJackson · 11-12-2012 01:49PM

RodgersLFC wrote: »

I hope they have a really spectacular ending to season 2 and then announce the show's cancellation. Its got nowhere left to go at this stage really.

It's already been renewed for season 3.

snausages · 11-12-2012 01:55PM

I'm getting some Twin Peaks vibes off it atm. If Estes is the main 'baddie' in season 3 then I don't expect it will last much longer than season 4. Which I wouldn't mind, but I hate the slow, miserable death Showtime seem to give some of their shows. **** American TV.

FloatingVoter · 11-12-2012 01:59PM

snausages wrote: »

I'm getting some Twin Peaks vibes off it atm. If Estes is the main 'baddie' in season 3 then I don't expect it will last much longer than season 4. Which I wouldn't mind, but I hate the slow, miserable death Showtime seem to give some of their shows. **** American TV.

The Twin Peaks parallel is true. It came out later that the unexpected success of the first season led to rushed scripting of season 2 with studio pressure added. I can't see Homeland lasting past season 3 (if there still is one).

Leroy42 · 11-12-2012 02:32PM

Guys, I can't believe you are all so negative. The are setting Season 3 up perfectly.

Nazir was never the real issue, he was a terrorist borne out of one particular instance (death of his son) which meant he was targeting the VP almost to the exclusion of anything else. His goal achieved, it doesn't matter whether he is dead or not. Remember this is aimed at US audience and as such they love to feel that they have the power to be in control, that they got their man.

What is far more uncomfortable for them is that a) that is only one man & b) he wasn't even the real problem.

The real villian, and far more worrying to US audience than a middle east nut job, is the internal terrorist. The death of Nazir will be sold as the success when all it has done is alllowed greater power and control for the CIA and in particular Saul.

I believe you have all been taken in by Saul. I reckon he is the mole, the mastermind. After years of being left swinging in the wind by the CIA, being sent to clear up other peoples sh1t, he has had enough. He has been at the centre of everything, he pretty much has control of Carrie.

In S1, when Carrie worked out the real plan, he was the one who helped get her committed. When the plan didn't come off, he was instrumental in getting her brought back. He knows Carrie will go rogue everytime yet he is the one arguing for her to keep being included.

11-12-2012 04:26PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

Guys, I can't believe you are all so negative. The are setting Season 3 up perfectly.

Nazir was never the real issue, he was a terrorist borne out of one particular instance (death of his son) which meant he was targeting the VP almost to the exclusion of anything else. His goal achieved, it doesn't matter whether he is dead or not. Remember this is aimed at US audience and as such they love to feel that they have the power to be in control, that they got their man.

What is far more uncomfortable for them is that a) that is only one man & b) he wasn't even the real problem.

The real villian, and far more worrying to US audience than a middle east nut job, is the internal terrorist. The death of Nazir will be sold as the success when all it has done is alllowed greater power and control for the CIA and in particular Saul.

I believe you have all been taken in by Saul. I reckon he is the mole, the mastermind. After years of being left swinging in the wind by the CIA, being sent to clear up other peoples sh1t, he has had enough. He has been at the centre of everything, he pretty much has control of Carrie.

In S1, when Carrie worked out the real plan, he was the one who helped get her committed. When the plan didn't come off, he was instrumental in getting her brought back. He knows Carrie will go rogue everytime yet he is the one arguing for her to keep being included.

You see. So far off the plot that you're making up your own.

If Saul were the mole then why:

- Out Brody

- Get stopped by security in wherever it was with the SD card.

If they go down that route there's a lot of explaining to do. Wouldn't surprise me the way the writers are just throwing sh*t at walls hoping it will stick at this stage.

Leroy42 · 11-12-2012 06:03PM

Making up my own? Not a chance. Making up my own opinion on the story so far, well of course I have.

When did he 'out' Brody? He merely let it be known about Brody to a small select few, in order to give them someone to target, but made sure they didn't go Nucleur on him to ensure he had a useful decoy. It got Carrie back on board and who lost out? The VP, hardly a major loss. He knows Estes is well connected to the VP so it is a good thing for the VP to be gone. And a known terrorist was involved, a terrorist Estes allowed to go free! If that ever gets out Estes is done for. Yes Saul would have questions to answer but Estes made the final call.

Yes he got stopped by security, but apart from giving them a blank SD card what did they get. Nothing. Like all these things, terrorists operate very much as separate entities. The security guy probably has no idea that Saul is now actively working against the US.

What do we really know about Saul? There is a question mark over who gave the inmate the blade in the first episode. He failed the lie detector test and simply brushed it aside with the usual "I'm too busy" line. He 'forgot' to take the glass away from the women inmate so that she could kill herself. He actively argued that Brody should stay in the open. He stopped Carrie when she got close to revealing the plot to bomb the VP, Estes and others in S1, everyone but him! He knows Carrie is crazy and nearly always does the opposite of what is needed, so he always tells her what 'not' to do!

S3 will be about Saul and Brody will actually be the person who starts to bring him down.

The Black Oil · 11-12-2012 10:46PM

2.11

expectationlost wrote: »

at early point of the show they say these guys all work in twos, cut to the guy on his own (with carrie).

Yeah, that was a bit obvious and silly.

A pretty good episode, though a few things you could take issue with. Frankly, I would have been happy enough for this to be all about Saul's lie detector test (dude serves up a nice 'f**k you!') - more or less dump the rest, though it had some good moments. Thought they did a good job with Carrie's makeup, as in, the non-bloody parts.

Brody family bickering was kinda necessary, though that scene felt a little overdone - I'd fault the writers here. However, in fairness to Dana, she will always see through Brody's BS.

Thought they would have thrown Roya in a more intimidating interrogation cell, though I guess her hands weren't actually near the equipment in the news van. She looked pretty shaken at the start of the scene with Carrie, though still kinda stoney faced and you knew she'd go into a rant. I hope she's not part of season 3 or doesn't somehow take over from Nazir. She's too weak a character, imo.

Car scene between Brody and Jess was pretty good, in fairness. Kinda daft that they'd pretty much ditch the security ASAP given that jihadi loons would be after Brody, and I think you can be pretty sure that Nazir may have told some people about him. But hey, if the aul' CIA wants to off Brody, they'll drop his escort in a second.

Can't really see the Galvez bloke being the mole. Too obvious for it to be an 'ordinary' Muslim supposedly sort of hiding in plain sight. Probably someone who has converted, or with political ties and wants to bring things down around their ears.

Hope they sort out some of the writing faults for season 3. Now, Carrie, after you shag Brody again, get some sleep.

Tom_Cruise · 11-12-2012 11:33PM

Great show but the suspense that the first season had is completely gone. Im still enjoying it, the last 2 episodes were pretty weak story wise to be honest, they seemed rushed.

Conmaicne Mara · 12-12-2012 12:17AM

Can't see Saul being anything more than he is, a moralistic non "soldier" thinker type. A mole for the looneys? I don't see it I'm afraid. Not quite sure where they're going with it all.

kneemos · 12-12-2012 05:54AM

Nazir's not dead,it was his twin or a lookalike.Makes as much sense as anything else going on.

lukin · 12-12-2012 09:51AM

FFS as if the team that searched the building (twice) wouldn't have found that concealed space. Carrie found it after two seconds. I know all shows expect us to suspend disbelief to some extent but this is really taking the piss.
Insulting to the audience's intelligence in the extreme.
Just a few more points; Roya doesn't look half as good without make-up.
Also it was a huge let-down that Brody didn't tell Jess about the suicide vest when they were in the car. He was just about to and she stopped him, damn.
At least we didn't have the customary Carrie/Brody riding scene.

Bacchus · 12-12-2012 09:55AM

Agree with most of what has been said already. The writing is gone to the pits in the last few episodes. The open phone calls to Brody's wire tapped phone, the sniffer dogs not finding Nazir, the SWAT team forgetting the buddy system and one that really grated with me.... a woman with a visitor badge casually walking into the interrogation room of a terrorist and without a word, the two CIA agents give her the room :rolleyes:

Also, get rid of the Brody family ASAP. They didn't even go anywhere with that hit and run story in the end. Pointless characters in the show and the daughter is a pain, I LOL'd when she was grossed out by the leaking milk carton and threw a tantrum. Over acting and terrible writing combined for a moment of pure OTT ridiculousness.

Such a shame, up until around Season 2, episode 4, this was a fantastic show. If they do go to a season 3, I hope they end up killing Brody this season and start with a new threat next season with Carrie dealing with the loss of Brody. The new threat should be completely new btw. The mole angle can continue to be played out but it should not be the focus.

Bacchus · 12-12-2012 10:01AM

lukin wrote: »

Also it was a huge let-down that Brody didn't tell Jess about the suicide vest when they were in the car. He was just about to and she stopped him, damn.

That would have been the perfect moment to end this season. That scene, Jess gets out, he watches her go into the house, finally feeling like a weight is lifted off his shoulder and BAM!, Quinn shoots him in the head. Cut away to the final scene we did get of Carrie at her apartment but it just ends at that. Would have set up Season 3 nicely for her character.

Cartman78 · 12-12-2012 10:19AM

kneemos wrote: »

Nazir's not dead,it was his twin or a lookalike.Makes as much sense as anything else going on.

haha....yeah and Jack Bauer's father is the mastermind behind the whole thing :cool:

The writers/producers/whoever really blew it imho....unique chance to have an American Muslim main character (and also someone struggling with mential illness) as the focus of a popular TV show but they totally bottled it.

The character arcs of all the main players have been ignored in favour of letting the increasingly weak story chunder along.

lukin · 12-12-2012 10:53AM

By the way, at the start of the season Carrie was kicked out of the CIA. I know they had to find a way of getting her back into the plot so that's why they had the story with the woman in Lebanon who would "only talk to Carrie and no-one else".
But since then Carrie has been carrying on as if she is is back as a fully-fledged CIA member again (interrogating suspects, giving orders to people, taking part in meetings). All this despite only having "visitor" accreditation.
Really annoying; whey don't they just let her back in officially? Also really annoying the way she always has to be so obsessive, doing her own thing, everyone else is wrong and she's always proved right in the end.

The Black Oil · 12-12-2012 12:09PM

IMO, one of the most intriguing parts of the show is obviously the Carrie/Brody relationship, particularly how it was set up in the pilot. We have that scene near the end of the first episode, Brody out for a run, takes a breather and looks up at the Capitol Building. We don't fully know what he's up to, but Carrie's spidey sense was obviously tingling. Their relationship became a personal one, but in this second season I think they've made it too personal. Of course, relationships should evolve, but I think they've worn away some of the tension by having them shack up together.

Backstreet Moyes · 12-12-2012 12:44PM

Did they show the lie detector after Saul mentioned about the plan to kill a congressman. It never shown Estes looking at the results. Could the lie detector results have been falsified. I don't know what's going to happen i presume Brody is going to be around next season.

lukin · 12-12-2012 12:45PM

The Black Oil wrote: »

IMO, one of the most intriguing parts of the show is obviously the Carrie/Brody relationship, particularly how it was set up in the pilot. We have that scene near the end of the first episode, Brody out for a run, takes a breather and looks up at the Capitol Building. We don't fully know what he's up to, but Carrie's spidey sense was obviously tingling. Their relationship became a personal one, but in this second season I think they've made it too personal. Of course, relationships should evolve, but I think they've worn away some of the tension by having them shack up together.

Yep. Damien Lewis and Claire Danes are the main two stars on the show so they are going to be spending the most time on screen but I think they have ovedone it this season. They are always together, talking, shagging etc.

Jimdagym · 12-12-2012 01:43PM

Nuts102 wrote: »

Did they show the lie detector after Saul mentioned about the plan to kill a congressman. It never shown Estes looking at the results. Could the lie detector results have been falsified. I don't know what's going to happen i presume Brody is going to be around next season.

When the guy gave Estes the results, he said Saul was telling the truth about the assassination plot.

serfboard · 12-12-2012 01:48PM

Bacchus wrote: »

That would have been the perfect moment to end this season. That scene, Jess gets out, he watches her go into the house, finally feeling like a weight is lifted off his shoulder and BAM!, Quinn shoots him in the head.

As I was watching it I thought that's what might happen, specially since Estes told Quinn to get it done ASAP. Two things against that are that it wasn't the season finale, and since Damian Lewis is number two on the bill, I don't expect Brody to be killed off before season three.

I also think we saw another interesting side to Quinn's character, with his obvious reluctance to kill Brody now that Nazir is dead.

dloob · 12-12-2012 01:54PM

Looks like Brody is going to get the ultimate revenge on Mike.
Leaving him stuck with Dana.

Backstreet Moyes · 12-12-2012 03:51PM

Jimdagym wrote: »

When the guy gave Estes the results, he said Saul was telling the truth about the assassination plot.

Yes but I don't think they showed his reaction after Saul said this. Maybe he falsified the results after finding out Estes plan as he would not know about Brody being a terrorist.

PauloConn · 12-12-2012 05:46PM

I wasn't happy with Nazir getting killed at all. He was the main antagonist and i feel its going to be more about the relationship between Carrie and Brody.
But would i feel cheated if they killed Brody and uncle Mike moved in with Jess leaving Carrie as a teacher and Saul to go back to his wife in India? Maybe not.
But i'd be shocked if they ended the series now if its doing well. Reckon Abu Nazir's ghost takes over Estes and Brody for pres.....

naughto · 12-12-2012 10:07PM

kneemos wrote: »

Nazir's not dead,it was his twin or a lookalike.Makes as much sense as anything else going on.

was thinking that my self why just sit in the f1cking dark and wait for the fbi to come get him and then get him self shot.

could it be that his death with bring out a bigger terrorist who is a sleeper
on american soil and we see him at the very end of season 2

gnfnrhead · 12-12-2012 10:13PM

Crap way for the big, bad Nazir to go out. Thought it may have been a body double to literally take the bullet for him but that doesnt seem the case. The whole episode felt like a finale. I think the final scene with Quinn was the only exception to that.

Not a lot of storylines that can carry into season three. Attempting to kill Brody for an entire season would suck so hopefully they bring something out next week.

ziggy · 13-12-2012 06:41AM

This post has been deleted.

gnfnrhead · 13-12-2012 07:41AM

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Not to kill your enthusiasm, but I don't think it's popular enough to warrant its own forum. This thread isn't all that active to begin with. A whole forum might make things worse rather than better. Personally, I hope it stays as is.

Bacchus · 13-12-2012 09:07AM

serfboard wrote: »

As I was watching it I thought that's what might happen, specially since Estes told Quinn to get it done ASAP. Two things against that are that it wasn't the season finale, and since Damian Lewis is number two on the bill, I don't expect Brody to be killed off before season three.

I also think we saw another interesting side to Quinn's character, with his obvious reluctance to kill Brody now that Nazir is dead.

I actually thought it was the finale until it ended and I went online to double check

It wouldn't have been a bad finale either. Main threat dead, Broady with a big target on his back, Saul kicked out of CIA. Not really sure what they are going to do for the finale now? I think the moment may have passed to kill Broady. For the sake of the show he needs to be killed off imo and the show should be allowed to move on. His character and story will never be as good as it was in Season 1 (and early season 2). Anything they come up with will be convoluted and tacky.

Homeland - Season 2 [Showtime - US] **Spoilers!**

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Homeland - Season 2 [Showtime - US] Spoilers!