Water fluoridation should be scrapped!

alastair · 11-08-2012 11:58AM

Worztron wrote: »

Someone should tell this man that the high levels of fluoride that can cause his scary list of nasties, has nothing to do with the low levels of fluoride used in fluoridation schemes. Toxicity is dose-dependent.

And that you really shouldn't turn J-Cloths into curtains.

hooradiation · 11-08-2012 12:14PM

alastair wrote: »

Someone should tell this man that the high levels of fluoride that can cause his scary list of nasties, has nothing to do with the low levels of fluoride used in fluoridation schemes. Toxicity is dose-dependent.

But if he didn't lie how do you expect him to fill nearly four minutes of youtube worthy material?

They don't let just anybody put videos up there, you know....

Starfox · 10-12-2012 10:00PM

Its simple really, We should have a choice about this, and i know most people would vote for no Fluoride.

98% of Europe has banned water fluoridation.. Why? because its not safe!

Everything you need to know about Fluoride, and its dangers, here.

As part of the Cork Environmental Forum, Environmental Scientist Declan Waugh gave a presentation entitled 'Fluoride in Drinking Water, History of Water Fluoridation and Implications for Ireland'.
This is a short interview with the man in question, covering some of the main issues he addresses in his presentation.
It is an absolute scandal that such fantastic research has been met with a wall of silence from so many people of power in this country.

Ziphius · 10-12-2012 10:16PM

What's up with so many people using YouTube videos in place evidence backed arguments.

Starfox · 10-12-2012 10:25PM

Ziphius wrote: »

What's up with so many people using YouTube videos in place evidence backed arguments.

So are you basically discrediting information because its on youtube?, thats clever

Ziphius · 10-12-2012 10:29PM

Starfox wrote: »

So are you basically discrediting information because its on youtube?, thats clever

Yes. Just because it's on YouTube doesn't make it true.

Jimoslimos · 10-12-2012 10:29PM

Starfox wrote: »

It is an absolute scandal that such fantastic research has been met with a wall of silence from so many people of power in this country.

Just no. It's not really.

Ziphius · 10-12-2012 10:31PM

Starfox wrote: »

So are you basically discrediting information because its on youtube?, thats clever

opinion guy · 10-12-2012 10:38PM

Ziphius wrote: »

Yes. Just because it's on YouTube doesn't make it true.

No but because youtube videos about stuff like this take up SOOOOOO much time it means I'm not watching them. Only people who watch these are the converted.

10-12-2012 10:49PM

Tooth decay is not generally life-threatening, though on occasion it can be. It is expensive to treat, and if left untreated it can impair the quality of life of those who have it. Tooth decay causes pain, can result in difficulty eating, causes bad breath, may cause facial disfigurement, and if sufficiently advanced has a significant effect on the self-confidence of sufferers.

Tooth decay is also easily preventable by fluoridation. That can be achieved by the fluoridation of water supplies, or by topical fluoridation (e.g. of toothpastes). The problem with the latter is that poorer and less-educated people are less likely to follow basic dental hygiene guidelines.

So there you have it - the main beneficiaries of fluoride in water are poor people.

And who gives a crap about poor people? Certainly not tinfoil hat wearers bleating about first world problems. :rolleyes:

Johro · 10-12-2012 10:53PM

mikemac1 wrote: »

Free drugs piped right to your home

They promised us Lithium. Ah the recession..

Tiddlypeeps · 10-12-2012 10:53PM

Starfox wrote: »

Its simple really, We should have a choice about this, and i know most people would vote for no Fluoride.

98% of Europe has banned water fluoridation.. Why? because its not safe!

Everything you need to know about Fluoride, and its dangers, here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQArORf_Dcs

As part of the Cork Environmental Forum, Environmental Scientist Declan Waugh gave a presentation entitled 'Fluoride in Drinking Water, History of Water Fluoridation and Implications for Ireland'.
This is a short interview with the man in question, covering some of the main issues he addresses in his presentation.
It is an absolute scandal that such fantastic research has been met with a wall of silence from so many people of power in this country.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70wuP5V8Pwg

Got as far as "nature wouldn't have screwed up on something so fundamental as what a baby needed for healthy growth" in the first video and stopped watching.

Water is naturally fluoridated in lots of places. In places where the fluoride concentration is higher than 1.5 parts per million the water even needs to be defluoridated.

Here is a map showing the parts of the world that have such high levels of naturally occuring fluoride in the water that defluoridation is needed.

Linking to a guy who claims to have read a scientific paper without backing up anything he says is not evidence.

The only argument I've ever heard against fluoridating water that I feel is reasonable is the argument against medicating people without their consent. That argument can be countered by the fact that fluoride is naturally occurring in so many places, but it doesn't dismiss it completely. If somebody feels that water shouldn't be fluoridated on those ground then I won't disagree with them.

Every other argument I've heard revolves around the fact that fluoride can be toxic if the does is high enough. That arguent is invalid when it comes to water fluoridation because the dose is so low. Dose is the most important factor with toxicity. Banana's are toxic if you eat enough of them, so is coffee and lots of other substances that are consumed by people every day. No legitimate study has ever concluded that fluoridating water between 0.5 and 1.0 parts per million is anything other than beneficial to human health. Here is a report published on the subject

If you have any actual evidence that disproves that then I would love to see it. If not then stop trying to fill peoples heads with garbage until you have the evidence to support your claims.

Ziphius · 10-12-2012 10:57PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Tooth decay is not generally life-threatening, though on occasion it can be. It is expensive to treat, and if left untreated it can impair the quality of life of those who have it. Tooth decay causes pain, can result in difficulty eating, causes bad breath, may cause facial disfigurement, and if sufficiently advanced has a significant effect on the self-confidence of sufferers.

Tooth decay is also easily preventable by fluoridation. That can be achieved by the fluoridation of water supplies, or by topical fluoridation (e.g. of toothpastes). The problem with the latter is that poorer and less-educated people are less likely to follow basic dental hygiene guidelines.

So there you have it - the main beneficiaries of fluoride in water are poor people.

And who gives a crap about poor people? Certainly not tinfoil hat wearers bleating about first world problems. :rolleyes:

Exactly. I mean how much does water fluoridation cost per person? A couple of cents? And how much will it save in dental bills.

10-12-2012 11:04PM

Ziphius wrote: »

Exactly. I mean how much does water fluoridation cost per person? A couple of cents? And how much will it save in dental bills.

I have no idea, to be honest, what Ireland spends on fluoridation of water supplies. What I do know is that having (mostly) grown up before fluoride was added to water or toothpaste, I have eight fillings, and at a rough estimate getting them and repairing them will end up costing me around €5-6,000 over the course of my lifetime.

Poor people can't afford that kind of money, and given the state of Ireland's finances the taxpayer can't afford it either.

Ziphius · 10-12-2012 11:10PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I have no idea, to be honest, what Ireland spends on fluoridation of water supplies. What I do know is that having (mostly) grown up before fluoride was added to water or toothpaste, I have eight fillings, and at a rough estimate getting them and repairing them will end up costing me around €5-6,000 over the course of my lifetime.

Poor people can't afford that kind of money, and given the state of Ireland's finances the taxpayer can't afford it either.

I think I underestimated a bit. According to this anti-fluoridation site (http://www.indymedia.ie/article/101469) it costs less than €4 million to fluoridate the water supply per year. Less than €1 per person per year!

tiger55 · 10-12-2012 11:15PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Fluoride prevents tooth decay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP7IPDfC3yg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZBRBPgTOt0

10-12-2012 11:20PM

tiger55 wrote: »

Conspiracy theory video 1

Conspiracy theory video 2

What exactly do you have against poor people? :rolleyes:

Ziphius · 10-12-2012 11:20PM

Again, any evidence other than YouTube videos?

Tiddlypeeps · 10-12-2012 11:21PM

Starfox wrote: »

It is an absolute scandal that such fantastic research has been met with a wall of silence from so many people of power in this country.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70wuP5V8Pwg

I decided it was unfair to dismiss the second video based on the idiotic claims made in the first so I went back and watched it.

Wow! The entire video can be basically be summarised into "I read lots of stuff on the internet that told me fluoride was bad, I spent years doing it therefore you should believe me on those grounds".

The technical term for the fluoride intolerance he mentions in the video is Salicylate sensitivity. Fluoride isn't the only substance that tigers it and it is incredibly difficult to maintain a salicylate free diet because the diet would be so restricted.

Everything else he mentions in his video is a case of him assuming that correlation implies causation. It does not. He provides no evidience linking the various illnesses he mentions their being a high rate of in Ireland to water fluoridation.

Ando's Saggy Bottom · 10-12-2012 11:22PM

About the only thing these threads are good for is bulking up the old ignore list.

10-12-2012 11:34PM

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

.....him assuming that correlation implies causation.

What? You mean in the same way that the more you and I buy ice cream, the more people drown? :eek:

tiger55 · 10-12-2012 11:40PM

Ziphius wrote: »

Again, any evidence other than YouTube videos?

Maybe you think our governments have our best interests at heart?

Ziphius · 10-12-2012 11:43PM

tiger55 wrote: »

Maybe you think our governments have our best interests at heart?

So... you don't trust the government ergo any wacky conspiracy theory you see on YouTube must be true.

Ziphius · 10-12-2012 11:49PM

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

Everything else he mentions in his video is a case of him assuming that correlation implies causation. It does not. He provides no evidience linking the various illnesses he mentions their being a high rate of in Ireland to water fluoridation.

They seem to do this a lot. The girl against fluoride, for example, likes to show how cancer rates are so much higher in the Republic (fluoridated) than in Northern Ireland (non-fluoridated) but then omits all the cancers which are more prevalent in Northern Ireland.

The All Ireland Cancer Registry actually have actually addressed this misuse of data: http://www.qub.ac.uk/research-centres/nicr/nicr/MisinterpretationofAll-IrelandCancerAtlas1995-2007/

10-12-2012 11:51PM

Ziphius wrote: »

So... you don't trust the government ergo any wacky conspiracy theory you see on YouTube must be true.

Did you know, by the way, that it's the government who made laws to force free Irish men and women to drive on the left? Oh, and also not kill each other or rob stuff from each other.

Bad government. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

Ziphius · 10-12-2012 11:55PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Did you know, by the way, that it's the government who made laws to force free Irish men and women to drive on the left? Oh, and also not kill each other or rob stuff from each other.

Bad government. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

The fiends! I wouldn't be surprised if they are pay doctors' and nurses' salaries either.

enfant terrible · 11-12-2012 12:28AM

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/antifluoridation-bad-science/#more-22052

Starfox · 11-12-2012 01:57AM

Deleted User wrote: »

What exactly do you have against poor people? :rolleyes:

ok, why has 98% of Europe banned fluoride in drinking water... for a laugh?

Canis Lupus · 11-12-2012 03:35AM

Starfox wrote: »

ok, why has 98% of Europe banned fluoride in drinking water... for a laugh?

Probably politicians, they rarely let science get in the way of potential votes.

Maximus Alexander · 11-12-2012 04:04AM

OP, do you realise that water fluoridation does not necessarily mean adding fluoride, but can also mean removing it? Essentially the goal of fluoridation is to optimise the amount of fluoride in drinking water, since natural fresh water supplies (including bottled water) can contain higher than safe levels.

The goal is to keep it between 0.5 and 1.3 parts per million. Sea water has, on average, between 1.2 and 1.5 parts per million and some natural fresh water has levels of up to 12 ppm. Anything above 4 ppm can have negative heath effects.

Now, I can't find information on what Ireland's natural fresh water fluoride levels are, but it's safe to say that if you stop water fluoridation there will still be fluoride in your drinking water, the levels just won't be optimised.

If you're that worried about it, buy yourself a water filter. They're not expensive and if you buy the right ones they will take the fluoride out of the water. Be prepared to have your teeth degrade dramatically over the next decade though.

And no, brushing and flossing is not enough. Fluoridation improves dental health by up to 35%, even for those who brush twice daily.

Water fluoridation should be scrapped!

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