TV licence and analogue signal

lounakin · 08-12-2012 01:43AM

tuxy wrote: »

If this is correct that makes it very clear, you no longer have to pay a tv licence if you have a TV with no digital receiver.

You still have to pay if you have a tv with no digital receiver. If it meets the requirement of a tv set: capable of receiving with or without the help of other devices...

ArtSmart · 08-12-2012 01:43AM

syklops wrote: »

ITs amazing the number of urban legends, half trues, and just plan lies that exist regarding the TV license.

The latest changes to the statute do cloud the issue a bit, but still it still is pretty much black and white, unlike the TV signal which is color.

There was a big boards myth going on for a while that any device that could access the RTE player needed a TV license. This is false.

If you have a TV, even if you live in a house made of lead, submerged 300 metres beneath the earths service(and therefore can not recieve a television signal), you need a license.

If you have a large screen monitor, hooked up to a PC and a Wii and a PS3 in your drive way, you do not need a license.

A TV on its own has the ability to receive a television signal, a computer monitor can not. That is whats stated in the statute.

that for real? so a pc/ laptop which can play iplayer is exempt?

can you link anything on that?

last time the 'urban legends' seemed very convincing.

tuxy · 08-12-2012 01:47AM

lounakin wrote: »

I heard you need a special cable, that it doesn't always work and that the quality of the image suffers. This is why I never got a monitor to play the wii.
How did you manage it?

Well you do need a hdmi convertor if you are using hdmi
But even the cheap ones give perfect picture
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky3l9S6D5wY

My monitor has component connections connections so I didn't need it.

shruikan2553 · 08-12-2012 01:49AM

tuxy wrote: »

But the point is that TVs with an analogue recieve can no longer recieve a singal. They must plug a saorview box into the scart or hdmi port. You can plug this same box into the hdmi port on any PC monitor bought in the last few years.

They dont care if can can get a signal or not, even if your TV doesnt work it is seen to be in "repairable condition" and requires a license (Would love for them to point out somewhere that would repair our CRT TV).

Didnt know you could just hook up the box to the monitor. I would expect them to try and fix this loophole very quickly.

ArtSmart · 08-12-2012 01:53AM

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/media/tv_licences.html

so, according to the above article, if you have UPC or similar, you must pay up. wheter a TV is present or not

smileyj1987 · 08-12-2012 01:54AM

shruikan2553 wrote: »

They dont care if can can get a signal or not, even if your TV doesnt work it is seen to be in "repairable condition" and requires a license (Would love for them to point out somewhere that would repair our CRT TV).
Didnt know you could just hook up the box to the monitor. I would expect them to try and fix this loophole very quickly.

The next thing will be a digital media player licence to replace the TV one i.e anything that can play video like a phone , pc or tv .

lounakin · 08-12-2012 01:54AM

ArtSmart wrote: »

that for real? so a pc/ laptop which can play iplayer is exempt?

can you link anything on that?

last time the 'urban legends' seemed very convincing.

here it is: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2009/en/si/0319.html

this tells that computers are an exception to the rule EVEN if you can hook up something to get tv on it. As the previous poster said, they will probably get on it quickly!

08-12-2012 01:58AM

I'm sure that you could legally contest the need to have a licence for a TV with no digital tuner. The fact that you can attach a box is irrelevant, because you could do the same with a PC monitor which has HDMI - in both cases this should then introduce the need to licence the TV or monitor as it is now capable of receiving television broadcasts. Unless they included PC monitors in the legislation then that could be seen as a loophole for analogue-only TVs.

eyeball kid · 08-12-2012 01:59AM

syklops wrote: »

A TV on its own has the ability to receive a television signal, a computer monitor can not. That is whats stated in the statute.

There are a lot of TV's now no longer have the ability to receive a television signal (i.e there is no television signal that these electronic boxes can pick up since the switch to digital) so it could be argued that a TV licence is no longer needed. Not fully sure how it would play out but it will be interesting if someone takes it to court.

lounakin · 08-12-2012 02:00AM

Karsini wrote: »

I'm sure that you could legally contest the need to have a licence for a TV with no digital tuner. The fact that you can attach a box is irrelevant, because you could do the same with a PC monitor which has HDMI. Unless they included PC monitors in the legislation then that could be seen as a loophole for analogue-only TVs.

Unfortunately it's all there in black and white! Even the weird exception about the computers. That's probably because a statute about computer use is sooooo complicated to write!

lounakin · 08-12-2012 02:02AM

eyeball kid wrote: »

There are a lot of TV's now no longer have the ability to receive a television signal (i.e there is no television signal that these electronic boxes can pick up since the switch to digital) so it could be argued that a TV licence is no longer needed. Not fully sure how it would play out but it will be interesting if someone takes it to court.

But it says on the statute that it doesn't matter at all. That is what I'm saying in my original post but since then I've read the statute more closely.

ArtSmart · 08-12-2012 02:04AM

http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Broadcasting/Frequently+Asked+Questions/Television+Licence+FAQ.htm#6

from above

Q: 'Do I require a television licence for a computer which can access television-like services (e.g. the RTÉ Player or streaming services) over the Internet?
A. No. So long as the computer is unable to display television channels distributed by conventional television broadcasting networks (i.e cable, satillite, IPTV, analogue terrestrial, digital terrestrial or MMDS) e.g. using a television tuner card or similar device, then there is no requirement to hold a television licence.

so how would i know if my laptop "is unable to display television channels distributed by conventional television broadcasting networks (i.e cable, satillite, IPTV, analogue terrestrial, digital terrestrial or MMDS"?

from above post link. http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2009/en/si/0319.html
This Order provides for the exemption from the television licensing requirements of section 142 of the Broadcasting Act 2009 of (a) portable devices with a display size of not more than 160 cm2 capable of exhibiting television services e.g. mobile phones or personal digital assistants, and (b) other devices, e.g. personal computers or laptops, capable of accessing the Internet and television-like services streamed via websites.

This order does not exempt from the television licensing requirements devices (e.g. personal computers or laptops) with a display size of more than 160 cm2, capable of displaying television channels (e.g. RTÉ Two, TV3, TG4, BBC One, 3e) distributed by conventional broadcast networks (e.g. cable, satellite, IPTV, analogue terrestrial, digital terrestrial or MMDS) using a television tuner card or related device (whether or not such devices are also capable of accessing the Internet or television-like services streamed via websites).

eyeball kid · 08-12-2012 02:10AM

lounakin wrote: »

But it says on the statute that it doesn't matter at all. That is what I'm saying in my original post but since then I've read the statute more closely.

But the statute you linked states.."
any television set capable of simultaneously or near-simultaneously exhibiting television broadcasting services transmitted, relayed or distributed by means of any of the following networks, namely–

(a) analogue terrestrial television networks,

(b) cable television networks,

(c) digital terrestrial television networks,

(d) internet protocol television networks,

(e) multipoint microwave distribution system television networks (analogue or digital), and

(f) satellite television networks;"

A television, without any set top/ built in digital box is now incapable of 'exhibiting television broadcasting services transmitted, relayed or distributed'.

I don't know how it would play out in court but you could argue that you don't need to pay a licence.

shruikan2553 · 08-12-2012 02:10AM

ArtSmart wrote: »

so how would i know if my laptop "is unable to display television channels distributed by conventional television broadcasting networks (i.e cable, satillite, IPTV, analogue terrestrial, digital terrestrial or MMDS"?

Nearly all laptops wont come with it built in (I have never seen any being sold myself) and if it was it would of been a big selling point so unless you put it in yourself you can assume its not there. Even if it was good luck to them trying to work it out.

eyeball kid wrote: »

But the statute you linked states.."
any television set capable of simultaneously or near-simultaneously exhibiting television broadcasting services transmitted, relayed or distributed by means of any of the following networks, namely–

(a) analogue terrestrial television networks,

(b) cable television networks,

(c) digital terrestrial television networks,

(d) internet protocol television networks,

(e) multipoint microwave distribution system television networks (analogue or digital), and

(f) satellite television networks;"

A television, without any set top/ built in digital box is now incapable of 'exhibiting television broadcasting services transmitted, relayed or distributed'.

I don't know how it would play out in court but you could argue that you don't need to pay a licence.

Still have to have one if I remember correctly, you can just buy a saorview box and watch away. This does create the grey area with PC monitors though as it is the same idea.

"With the analogue television service switched off, your analogue television set needs a set-top box to receive digital television. Your analogue television set, with or without a set-top box, still requires a television licence."
from: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/media/tv_licences.html

lounakin · 08-12-2012 02:15AM

eyeball kid wrote: »

But the statute you linked states.."

A television, without any set top/ built in digital box is now incapable of 'exhibiting television broadcasting services transmitted, relayed or distributed'.

I don't know how it would play out in court but you could argue that you don't need to pay a licence.

Yes but you might be able to have an external digital box? In that case it still counts

eyeball kid · 08-12-2012 02:16AM

smileyj1987 wrote: »

The next thing will be a digital media player licence to replace the TV one i.e anything that can play video like a phone , pc or tv .

Just on this. I think this is what the government will try to bring it and it would probably be at point of sale. No more licence per household, more likely a licence per device with a variable price depending on the device (phone, tablet, laptop, pc monitor or tv)

kneemos · 08-12-2012 02:20AM

eyeball kid wrote: »

There are a lot of TV's now no longer have the ability to receive a television signal (i.e there is no television signal that these electronic boxes can pick up since the switch to digital) so it could be argued that a TV licence is no longer needed. Not fully sure how it would play out but it will be interesting if someone takes it to court.

Might be cheaper to buy a licence.

syklops · 08-12-2012 03:18AM

I really need to write a gresemonkey script which hides TV license threads from me because I just end up getting annoyed.

Stuff like "I can't get TV so it could be argued that...", and "I don't have a saorvier box so..." and "whats the difference between my PC monitor and a Televisions..?"

The guidelines are there on the citizensinformation.ie website. Its clear to me. Its one of the more clear statutes.

The statutes says "bla bla bla capable of recieving a television signal". Now if your laptop can not receive the radio signal, and translate it to pictures on the screen, then it is not capable of recieving a television signal. If you have a thing called a TV card then you need a TV license because it can decode TV signals.

syklops · 08-12-2012 03:23AM

ArtSmart wrote: »

that for real? so a pc/ laptop which can play iplayer is exempt?

can you link anything on that?

last time the 'urban legends' seemed very convincing.

Read the oft quoted statute, thats the law. Quoting from memory it states that a TV license is needed for any device capable of recieving a TV signal. It does not say a tv license is equired for any device capable of recieving TV content. BIG difference.

tuxy · 08-12-2012 03:23AM

syklops wrote: »

Stuff like "I can't get TV so it could be argued that...", and "I don't have a saorvier box so..." and "whats the difference between my PC monitor and a Televisions..?"

What is the difference if both can't receive an analogue signal but both have hdmi as the only option for input?

areyawell · 08-12-2012 03:31AM

tuxy wrote: »

What is the difference if both can't receive an analogue signal but both have hdmi as the only option for input?

just the law on citizens information, cant do ya for having a PC. In fact they cant do ya for having no TV license either, just an urban myth. They have no authority to enter your house, but the feckers look through ur window or see an aerial on ur roof is the only way they can do you

syklops · 08-12-2012 03:32AM

tuxy wrote: »

What is the difference if both can't receive an analogue signal but both have hdmi as the only option for input?

Are there any televisions which can not recieve analogue signals?

I think there are and they are called computer monitors.

A black and white television from 1954 which as an analogue reciever needs a TV license.

As it stands, a computer monitor with a HDMI socket does not.

I'm not discussing the decision, its not worth it. That is my solution.

areyawell · 08-12-2012 03:35AM

syklops wrote: »

Are there any televisions which can not recieve analogue signals?

I think there are and they are called computer monitors.

A black and white television from 1954 which as an analogue reciever needs a TV license.

As it stands, a computer monitor with a HDMI socket does not.

I'm not discussing the decision, its not worth it. That is my solution.

that's fully correct but see my last post here. They have no authority whatsoever those tv license dudes

Zab · 08-12-2012 03:35AM

lounakin wrote: »

here it is: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2009/en/si/0319.html

this tells that computers are an exception to the rule EVEN if you can hook up something to get tv on it. As the previous poster said, they will probably get on it quickly!

The linked SI seems to be about exemptions from television licencing. The argument on this thread is that a TV without a digital tuner doesn't actually fit the Broadcasting Act definition of a TV anymore as it can't receive the services "broadcast for general reception".

Broadcasting Act 2009 wrote:

television set ” means any electronic apparatus capable of receiving and exhibiting television broadcasting services broadcast for general reception (whether or not its use for that purpose is dependent on the use of anything else in conjunction with it) and any software or assembly comprising such apparatus and other apparatus;

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2009/en/act/pub/0018/sec0140.html#sec140

edit: oh, and regarding the computer exemption, it actually states that computers with displays over 160sqcm (which is very small, smaller than a 7" tablet) with a hooked up tuner are not exempt.

syklops · 08-12-2012 03:39AM

areyawell wrote: »

that's fully correct but see my last post here. They have no authority whatsoever those tv license dudes

They have enough authority to have you have a summons in your door. Meaning a day off work, maybe more to visit the Doctors, and possibly a loss of income.

kneemos · 08-12-2012 03:48AM

Theres four flats where I live,I'm the only one with a licence.Every year around January the inspector calls and whoever answers the door tells them some story or other and that's it until the next January.You really have to be commited to get done for no licence.

TheChizler · 08-12-2012 03:50AM

Might be worth comparing it to a firearms licence, you still need the licence whether its hunting season or not, whether you have access to bullets or not, whether its mounted on a wall for decoration or not.

The SI makes no specific reference to what type of television broadcast. There are 20+ broadcast standards out there (broadcast here meaning available to the general public, not to one device at the end of a wire or one to one connection over the Internet as all Internet streams are), the law encompasses every one of those standards, even if they haven't been available to the public in 30 years, if you have a device that can receive, demodulate and display any of those signals, by law you need a licence.

Not saying it's right or ideal, it's just a fact.

tuxy · 08-12-2012 03:59AM

TheChizler wrote: »

Might be worth comparing it to a firearms licence, you still need the licence whether its hunting season or not, whether you have access to bullets or not, whether its mounted on a wall for decoration or not.

Deactivated firearms don't need a licence. So the same must be true of a TV that have the analogue tuner deactivated! Either that or it's a very poor analogy.

Zab · 08-12-2012 04:05AM

TheChizler wrote: »

the law encompasses every one of those standards, even if they haven't been available to the public in 30 years, if you have a device that can receive, demodulate and display any of those signals, by law you need a licence.

I don't see where it says any of that though. Can you link?

TheChizler · 08-12-2012 04:27AM

tuxy wrote: »

Deactivated firearms don't need a licence. So the same must be true of a TV that have the analogue tuner deactivated! Either that or it's a very poor analogy.

Yeah but a deactivated tv would be capable of being repaired, there's no way to get a certification of deactivation for a tv. Other than that I think the analogy holds up quite well, in that its a licence you pay for possession of a device, regardless of whether it gets used or not.

Regards linking to those other bits, the SI doesn't go into all that detail, it broadly refers to a device capable of receiving and displaying a television broadcast. Anyone with experience in electronics and tv would probably agree (and have so done in the past in the many threads here on the topic) that the above would be a general description.

TV licence and analogue signal

Comments