TV licence and analogue signal

lounakin

I am one of those people who don't watch tv, I do it all on my computer but I still like to watch DVDs and play Wii on a big screen. It's totally unfair that I should pay for a tv licence when I'm not watching tv. Up until recently any TV was capable of receiving, which was the whole point of the license. But now that they have switched off the analogue signal, couldn't you argue that the tv you are solely using for games and DVDs is NOT capable of receiving programs and you shouldn't have to pay for a license?

Fr_Dougal

As long as you don't have a saorview, UPC, Sky box etc. I would think you could argue that case quite easily.

girl in the striped socks

Let us know what the judge says when you end up in court.
I understand what you are saying & it makes sense.
Unfortunately the words sense, justice, court & judge rarely appear in the same sentence.

lounakin

We just read the statutes and it seems to say that if you have a TV, even if you need another device to receive it then you need a licence but it doesn't specifically say what would happen should you have the TV set and no device to receive broadcast...

The two exceptions are if you have a 'portable tv-set' or if you have a 'non-portable tv set capable of exhibiting television broadcasting services distributed by means of the publicly available internet'
Does someone understand how that last definition differs from the usual tv set that you have to pay a license for?

gurramok

Just don't answer the door to the TV licence inspector, you'll be fine. Oh, don't get registered post to your address, An Post do the collecting of the TV licence fee.

jimmycrackcorm

Buy a large screen monitor instead of a tv - no receiver = no license to pay.

rogieop

if you are not using saorview then they will have no way to know if you have a tv in your house or not.

They can only tell by checking if you are receiving a signal, the only other way they could know is if you let them through your door,

however, once they start introducing a "license" to watch tv online you're going to be screwed anyway.

areyawell

From Citizens Information:

With the analogue television service switched off, your analogue television set needs a set-top box to receive digital television. Your analogue television set, with or without a set-top box, still requires a television licence.

Fr_Dougal

areyawell wrote: »

From Citizens Information:

With the analogue television service switched off, your analogue television set needs a set-top box to receive digital television. Your analogue television set, with or without a set-top box, still requires a television licence.

I don't think that would stand up if challenged in court.

tuxy

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Buy a large screen monitor instead of a tv - no receiver = no license to pay.

What's the difference between a TV with no digital decoder and a pc monitor?

kneemos

You are watching tv on your computer so why can't you pay for it,do you expect everyone else to pay for your convenience?

areyawell

kneemos wrote: »

You are watching tv on your computer so why can't you pay for it,do you expect everyone else to pay for your convenience?

Not required for a PC or phone, Only devices that can receive an analogue or digital signal and if the analogue or digital decoder is broken or not working it is capable of been fixed so you still need a tv license

goose2005

areyawell wrote: »

From Citizens Information:

With the analogue television service switched off, your analogue television set needs a set-top box to receive digital television. Your analogue television set, with or without a set-top box, still requires a television licence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0c3bhh8fqYs

B.A._Baracus

lounakin wrote: »

I am one of those people who don't watch tv, I do it all on my computer but I still like to watch DVDs and play Wii on a big screen. It's totally unfair that I should pay for a tv licence when I'm not watching tv. Up until recently any TV was capable of receiving, which was the whole point of the license. But now that they have switched off the analogue signal, couldn't you argue that the tv you are solely using for games and DVDs is NOT capable of receiving programs and you shouldn't have to pay for a license?

The sad truth is the government do not care what you do with your tv. Its as long as you got one, you gotta pay the tax license :rolleyes:

Its gotten so bad that if you moved in to a place and you arent currently paying the license. You will be red flagged and recieve a check from them. Totally illregardless of weather you have a tv or not. Your place is on record and you will be checked upon.

tuxy

Put pc monitors will work with the same set top box as a regualr tv uses.

kneemos

areyawell wrote: »

Not required for a PC or phone, Only devices that can receive an analogue or digital signal and if the analogue or digital decoder is broken or not working it is capable of been fixed so you still need a tv license

I know he doesn't need a licence for the pc but he's still using the service so why is he complaining about having to pay for it.

tuxy

PC monitor are really just a display with a hdmi input these days, the same as a TV.

Where in law are the two differentiated?
Does anyone know?

areyawell

kneemos wrote: »

I know he doesn't need a licence for the pc but he's still using the service so why is he complaining about having to pay for it.

Because the government are so stupid they don't realise you can watch tv via aertv.ie or getting a digital tuner card for the pc

B.A._Baracus

tuxy wrote: »

PC monitor are really just a display with a hdmi input these days, the same as a TV.

Where in law are the two differentiated?
Does anyone know?

I am not 100% clear if this is currently in or not. But the government was trying to include pc monitors apart of the tv license. Created a lot of angry replies on boards a few months ago.

tuxy

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

I am not 100% clear if this is currently in or not. But the government was trying to include pc monitors apart of the tv license. Created a lot of angry replies on boards a few months ago.

I'm not sure if they would have to change anything to include them, they both receive the same type of signal.

B.A._Baracus

tuxy wrote: »

I'm not sure if they would have to change anything to include them, they both receive the same type of signal.

True. As they are both capable of recieving the same thing. All I know is that its a load of bollix.

Think about it we have to pay a license for buying an electrical item. The biggest kicker is that Irish tv is "free" - or should I say "free to recieve, not free to watch" - its a joke.

I am honestly suprised there isn't an internet tax.

tuxy

I agree totally.
It's just some people are saying there is a difference between a TV and a PC monitor and I don't see the difference.

Fr_Dougal

areyawell wrote: »

Not required for a PC or phone, Only devices that can receive an analogue or digital signal and if the analogue or digital decoder is broken or not working it is capable of been fixed so you still need a tv license

What's to stop you saying that your TV cannot receive an analogue signal? They have no way of checking as no TV stations are now broadcast in analogue.

cookie75

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

I am honestly suprised there isn't an internet tax.

SHUSH !!! Jesus man dont be giving them ideas :eek:

lounakin

kneemos wrote: »

I know he doesn't need a licence for the pc but he's still using the service so why is he complaining about having to pay for it.

He (me? Then it's she ) is using the service: nope i'm not. Don't watch tv on my computer either. I have netflix and watch youtube, i pay for an internet connection. I don't see why they can't find a way to tax people only when they watch tv instead of taxing everyone regardless of what they do. I would gladly pay a tax on what i use, not what I don't use.
That exception on the statue does mean pc and other monitors/computers, you wouldn't have to pay a license but you can't play the wii on them either

tuxy

lounakin wrote: »

That exception on the statue does mean pc and other monitors/computers, you wouldn't have to pay a license but you can't play the wii on them either

You definitely can play the wii on a PC monitor, I used to before I sold my wii.
As I keep saying a TV and PC monitor is practically the same thing.

shruikan2553

If you own a device that can pick up a TV signal being TV or a TV tuner card in your PC you are meant to own a license. PC monitors on their own do not require one and many have HDMI ports for consoles, DVD players etc.

After my last experience with them I have learnt to be as unhelpful as possible with them. My girlfriend has been told they will be applying for a summons but after emailing them we dont know if they have held it back while we sort it out. Anyone have any idea how long it will take? Or if we can just say she has moved out seeing as there are 5 other people renting rooms in the house.

I have heard they want to make it a broadcasting license and cover internet and radios but not sure if that is true. They probably spend as much money trying to get people to pay than how much they get from them.

tuxy

shruikan2553 wrote: »

If you own a device that can pick up a TV signal being TV or a TV tuner card in your PC you are meant to own a license. PC monitors on their own do not require one and many have HDMI ports for consoles, DVD players etc.

But the point is that TVs with an analogue recieve can no longer recieve a singal. They must plug a saorview box into the scart or hdmi port. You can plug this same box into the hdmi port on any PC monitor bought in the last few years.

syklops

ITs amazing the number of urban legends, half trues, and just plan lies that exist regarding the TV license.

The latest changes to the statute do cloud the issue a bit, but still it still is pretty much black and white, unlike the TV signal which is color.

There was a big boards myth going on for a while that any device that could access the RTE player needed a TV license. This is false.

If you have a TV, even if you live in a house made of lead, submerged 300 metres beneath the earths service(and therefore can not recieve a television signal), you need a license.

If you have a large screen monitor, hooked up to a PC and a Wii and a PS3 in your drive way, you do not need a license.

PC monitor are really just a display with a hdmi input these days, the same as a TV.

Where in law are the two differentiated?

A TV on its own has the ability to receive a television signal, a computer monitor can not. That is whats stated in the statute.

tuxy

syklops wrote: »

A TV on its own has the ability to receive a television signal, a computer monitor can not. That is whats stated in the statute.

If this is correct that makes it very clear, you no longer have to pay a tv licence if you have a TV with no digital receiver.

lounakin

tuxy wrote: »

You definitely can play the wii on a PC monitor, I used to before I sold my wii.
As I keep saying a TV and PC monitor is practically the same thing.

I heard you need a special cable, that it doesn't always work and that the quality of the image suffers. This is why I never got a monitor to play the wii.
How did you manage it?

lounakin

tuxy wrote: »

If this is correct that makes it very clear, you no longer have to pay a tv licence if you have a TV with no digital receiver.

You still have to pay if you have a tv with no digital receiver. If it meets the requirement of a tv set: capable of receiving with or without the help of other devices...

ArtSmart

syklops wrote: »

ITs amazing the number of urban legends, half trues, and just plan lies that exist regarding the TV license.

The latest changes to the statute do cloud the issue a bit, but still it still is pretty much black and white, unlike the TV signal which is color.

There was a big boards myth going on for a while that any device that could access the RTE player needed a TV license. This is false.

If you have a TV, even if you live in a house made of lead, submerged 300 metres beneath the earths service(and therefore can not recieve a television signal), you need a license.

If you have a large screen monitor, hooked up to a PC and a Wii and a PS3 in your drive way, you do not need a license.



A TV on its own has the ability to receive a television signal, a computer monitor can not. That is whats stated in the statute.

that for real? so a pc/ laptop which can play iplayer is exempt?

can you link anything on that?

last time the 'urban legends' seemed very convincing.

tuxy

lounakin wrote: »

I heard you need a special cable, that it doesn't always work and that the quality of the image suffers. This is why I never got a monitor to play the wii.
How did you manage it?

Well you do need a hdmi convertor if you are using hdmi
But even the cheap ones give perfect picture
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky3l9S6D5wY

My monitor has component connections connections so I didn't need it.

shruikan2553

tuxy wrote: »

But the point is that TVs with an analogue recieve can no longer recieve a singal. They must plug a saorview box into the scart or hdmi port. You can plug this same box into the hdmi port on any PC monitor bought in the last few years.

They dont care if can can get a signal or not, even if your TV doesnt work it is seen to be in "repairable condition" and requires a license (Would love for them to point out somewhere that would repair our CRT TV).

Didnt know you could just hook up the box to the monitor. I would expect them to try and fix this loophole very quickly.

ArtSmart

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/media/tv_licences.html

so, according to the above article, if you have UPC or similar, you must pay up. wheter a TV is present or not

smileyj1987

shruikan2553 wrote: »

They dont care if can can get a signal or not, even if your TV doesnt work it is seen to be in "repairable condition" and requires a license (Would love for them to point out somewhere that would repair our CRT TV).
Didnt know you could just hook up the box to the monitor. I would expect them to try and fix this loophole very quickly.

The next thing will be a digital media player licence to replace the TV one i.e anything that can play video like a phone , pc or tv .

lounakin

ArtSmart wrote: »

that for real? so a pc/ laptop which can play iplayer is exempt?

can you link anything on that?

last time the 'urban legends' seemed very convincing.

here it is: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2009/en/si/0319.html

this tells that computers are an exception to the rule EVEN if you can hook up something to get tv on it. As the previous poster said, they will probably get on it quickly!

I'm sure that you could legally contest the need to have a licence for a TV with no digital tuner. The fact that you can attach a box is irrelevant, because you could do the same with a PC monitor which has HDMI - in both cases this should then introduce the need to licence the TV or monitor as it is now capable of receiving television broadcasts. Unless they included PC monitors in the legislation then that could be seen as a loophole for analogue-only TVs.

eyeball kid

syklops wrote: »

A TV on its own has the ability to receive a television signal, a computer monitor can not. That is whats stated in the statute.

There are a lot of TV's now no longer have the ability to receive a television signal (i.e there is no television signal that these electronic boxes can pick up since the switch to digital) so it could be argued that a TV licence is no longer needed. Not fully sure how it would play out but it will be interesting if someone takes it to court.

lounakin

Karsini wrote: »

I'm sure that you could legally contest the need to have a licence for a TV with no digital tuner. The fact that you can attach a box is irrelevant, because you could do the same with a PC monitor which has HDMI. Unless they included PC monitors in the legislation then that could be seen as a loophole for analogue-only TVs.

Unfortunately it's all there in black and white! Even the weird exception about the computers. That's probably because a statute about computer use is sooooo complicated to write!

lounakin

eyeball kid wrote: »

There are a lot of TV's now no longer have the ability to receive a television signal (i.e there is no television signal that these electronic boxes can pick up since the switch to digital) so it could be argued that a TV licence is no longer needed. Not fully sure how it would play out but it will be interesting if someone takes it to court.

But it says on the statute that it doesn't matter at all. That is what I'm saying in my original post but since then I've read the statute more closely.

ArtSmart

http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Broadcasting/Frequently+Asked+Questions/Television+Licence+FAQ.htm#6

from above

Q: 'Do I require a television licence for a computer which can access television-like services (e.g. the RTÉ Player or streaming services) over the Internet?
A. No. So long as the computer is unable to display television channels distributed by conventional television broadcasting networks (i.e cable, satillite, IPTV, analogue terrestrial, digital terrestrial or MMDS) e.g. using a television tuner card or similar device, then there is no requirement to hold a television licence.

so how would i know if my laptop "is unable to display television channels distributed by conventional television broadcasting networks (i.e cable, satillite, IPTV, analogue terrestrial, digital terrestrial or MMDS"?



from above post link. http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2009/en/si/0319.html
This Order provides for the exemption from the television licensing requirements of section 142 of the Broadcasting Act 2009 of (a) portable devices with a display size of not more than 160 cm2 capable of exhibiting television services e.g. mobile phones or personal digital assistants, and (b) other devices, e.g. personal computers or laptops, capable of accessing the Internet and television-like services streamed via websites.


This order does not exempt from the television licensing requirements devices (e.g. personal computers or laptops) with a display size of more than 160 cm2, capable of displaying television channels (e.g. RTÉ Two, TV3, TG4, BBC One, 3e) distributed by conventional broadcast networks (e.g. cable, satellite, IPTV, analogue terrestrial, digital terrestrial or MMDS) using a television tuner card or related device (whether or not such devices are also capable of accessing the Internet or television-like services streamed via websites).

eyeball kid

lounakin wrote: »

But it says on the statute that it doesn't matter at all. That is what I'm saying in my original post but since then I've read the statute more closely.

But the statute you linked states.."
any television set capable of simultaneously or near-simultaneously exhibiting television broadcasting services transmitted, relayed or distributed by means of any of the following networks, namely–

(a) analogue terrestrial television networks,

(b) cable television networks,

(c) digital terrestrial television networks,

(d) internet protocol television networks,

(e) multipoint microwave distribution system television networks (analogue or digital), and

(f) satellite television networks;"

A television, without any set top/ built in digital box is now incapable of 'exhibiting television broadcasting services transmitted, relayed or distributed'.

I don't know how it would play out in court but you could argue that you don't need to pay a licence.

shruikan2553

ArtSmart wrote: »

so how would i know if my laptop "is unable to display television channels distributed by conventional television broadcasting networks (i.e cable, satillite, IPTV, analogue terrestrial, digital terrestrial or MMDS"?

Nearly all laptops wont come with it built in (I have never seen any being sold myself) and if it was it would of been a big selling point so unless you put it in yourself you can assume its not there. Even if it was good luck to them trying to work it out.

eyeball kid wrote: »

But the statute you linked states.."
any television set capable of simultaneously or near-simultaneously exhibiting television broadcasting services transmitted, relayed or distributed by means of any of the following networks, namely–

(a) analogue terrestrial television networks,

(b) cable television networks,

(c) digital terrestrial television networks,

(d) internet protocol television networks,

(e) multipoint microwave distribution system television networks (analogue or digital), and

(f) satellite television networks;"

A television, without any set top/ built in digital box is now incapable of 'exhibiting television broadcasting services transmitted, relayed or distributed'.

I don't know how it would play out in court but you could argue that you don't need to pay a licence.

Still have to have one if I remember correctly, you can just buy a saorview box and watch away. This does create the grey area with PC monitors though as it is the same idea.

"With the analogue television service switched off, your analogue television set needs a set-top box to receive digital television. Your analogue television set, with or without a set-top box, still requires a television licence."
from: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/media/tv_licences.html

lounakin

eyeball kid wrote: »

But the statute you linked states.."

A television, without any set top/ built in digital box is now incapable of 'exhibiting television broadcasting services transmitted, relayed or distributed'.

I don't know how it would play out in court but you could argue that you don't need to pay a licence.

Yes but you might be able to have an external digital box? In that case it still counts

eyeball kid

smileyj1987 wrote: »

The next thing will be a digital media player licence to replace the TV one i.e anything that can play video like a phone , pc or tv .

Just on this. I think this is what the government will try to bring it and it would probably be at point of sale. No more licence per household, more likely a licence per device with a variable price depending on the device (phone, tablet, laptop, pc monitor or tv)

kneemos

eyeball kid wrote: »

There are a lot of TV's now no longer have the ability to receive a television signal (i.e there is no television signal that these electronic boxes can pick up since the switch to digital) so it could be argued that a TV licence is no longer needed. Not fully sure how it would play out but it will be interesting if someone takes it to court.

Might be cheaper to buy a licence.

syklops

I really need to write a gresemonkey script which hides TV license threads from me because I just end up getting annoyed.

Stuff like "I can't get TV so it could be argued that...", and "I don't have a saorvier box so..." and "whats the difference between my PC monitor and a Televisions..?"

The guidelines are there on the citizensinformation.ie website. Its clear to me. Its one of the more clear statutes.

The statutes says "bla bla bla capable of recieving a television signal". Now if your laptop can not receive the radio signal, and translate it to pictures on the screen, then it is not capable of recieving a television signal. If you have a thing called a TV card then you need a TV license because it can decode TV signals.

syklops

ArtSmart wrote: »

that for real? so a pc/ laptop which can play iplayer is exempt?

can you link anything on that?

last time the 'urban legends' seemed very convincing.

Read the oft quoted statute, thats the law. Quoting from memory it states that a TV license is needed for any device capable of recieving a TV signal. It does not say a tv license is equired for any device capable of recieving TV content. BIG difference.

tuxy

syklops wrote: »

Stuff like "I can't get TV so it could be argued that...", and "I don't have a saorvier box so..." and "whats the difference between my PC monitor and a Televisions..?"

What is the difference if both can't receive an analogue signal but both have hdmi as the only option for input?