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People Protest

2

Comments

  • #32
    Minister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 444 ✭✭Minister


    black francis wrote: »
    It's all very well protesting about current Government policy.
    Offering realistic alternatives might be more of a problem.

    I know a girl who goes on Anti-Household Tax marches one week and Anti-Austerity marches the next.

    Basically she doesn't want any increases in taxes or any cuts to services. I'd imagine her prefered solution would be for the money fairies to conjure up a large pile of cash so we can go on living like it's 2006.

    Fair point. Acceptable alternatives that are pragmatic and realistic to the majority is indeed the issue. I believe that we do need real stae reform of services and a more even distribution of 'austerity'.

    The state of our country is well highlighted here http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/1205/breaking2.html


  • #33
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    Minister wrote: »
    No, Starbelgrade, it is not a sympathy card for the poor. It is really what i encounter in my work

    It is compassion and care for my fellow human being. I am wise enough after nearly 50 years on the planet to know a chancer when I meet one. I am also attuned to the idea that I do learn something new everyday. This reflects, I contend, pragmatism and care for my fellow human.

    Compassionate, wise, pragmatic and modest. If you could use social media, you'd be damn near perfect.


  • #34
    sfwcork
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,203 ✭✭✭sfwcork


    Pi$$ing into the wind springs to mind


  • #35
    TheDoc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,140 ✭✭✭✭TheDoc


    Minister wrote: »
    I am posting this here as a serious topic because I do not know where else to put same, so please respect the idea of the thread. Thanks. Mods - please feel free to move.

    I am fed up at this government and its clear bias towards the wealthy

    Stopped reading here.

    People need to correctly pronounce what this budget is going to be, and what this government is doing. I'm not a wealthy individual, my family are predominantly middle class.

    The problem with tomorrows budgets is the cuts and revenue generation is aimed at providing €5bn to Anglo Irish, a dead and defunct company.

    This government, is failing to take a hard line with the banks. When a company goes bust, hits hard times, or takes a massive speculative gamble with their money, they take the hit.

    That means loss of employment, that means loss of pension, it means everyone involved hitting hardship. While I would never advocate some sort of happiness with someone loosing their job or their pension, I cannot at the same time agree with the company propping up failed investments and institutions.

    We are raising 5bn to a bank, so their staff can take redundancy, and pensions can be paid to existing retired staff, and future retiring staff.


    Just think about that for a second.......

    We are generating, 5 billion Euro, to ensure the staff of a failed institution can retain the benefits and salaries, where in any other institution, it would be gone.

    That for me is harrowing, genuinely harrowing, that we are bleeding money propping up failed institutions.


  • #36
    Minister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 444 ✭✭Minister


    starbelgrade wrote: »
    Compassionate, wise, pragmatic and modest. If you could use social media, you'd be damn near perfect.

    I can be a real boll##ks when i want to be;)

    Anyway, can you find the time to help on the social media?:)


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  • #37
    Where To
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,455 ✭✭✭Where To


    Gurgle wrote: »



    For the 3 million of us living outside the area serviced by Dublin Bus, the cheapest way to get anywhere is still the car*. So your suggestion is that people give up any attempt to pay their own way through working for a living.

    Does it not seem wrong to you that these people could live more comfortably if they quit their job, defaulted on the mortgage and put their hand out?

    *Driving a car is cheaper than 'public transport' even with just one person in the car.
    If you're working there's no valid reason you shouldn't be able to run a car.

    Having a mortgage you can't afford is not a valid reason.


  • #38
    Minister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 444 ✭✭Minister


    TheDoc wrote: »
    Stopped reading here.

    People need to correctly pronounce what this budget is going to be, and what this government is doing. I'm not a wealthy individual, my family are predominantly middle class.

    The problem with tomorrows budgets is the cuts and revenue generation is aimed at providing €5bn to Anglo Irish, a dead and defunct company.

    This government, is failing to take a hard line with the banks. When a company goes bust, hits hard times, or takes a massive speculative gamble with their money, they take the hit.

    That means loss of employment, that means loss of pension, it means everyone involved hitting hardship. While I would never advocate some sort of happiness with someone loosing their job or their pension, I cannot at the same time agree with the company propping up failed investments and institutions.

    We are raising 5bn to a bank, so their staff can take redundancy, and pensions can be paid to existing retired staff, and future retiring staff.


    Just think about that for a second.......

    We are generating, 5 billion Euro, to ensure the staff of a failed institution can retain the benefits and salaries, where in any other institution, it would be gone.

    That for me is harrowing, genuinely harrowing, that we are bleeding money propping up failed institutions.

    At least you read a bit of the post. I agree with you. What you posit is the basis for today's (not tomorrow's;)) budget.

    So can we, as citizens, excercise our displeasure at this? Serious question as your post was thought out. So, thanks.


  • #39
    hiram
    Closed Accounts Posts: 322 ✭✭hiram


    Minister wrote: »

    Good point. Would it be an idea to use the TD's constituency offices as a focal point? (They form part of a TD's perks and expenses package - paid for by us)

    My point would be...why are these constituency offices still standing? Has anyone seen the picture of Hogan and his "assistant" cuddling up around a glass if wine on OUR money? Why does he not come back to the smouldering ruin of what was once his office. Because we are sheep, that's why. Let's all just bend over and take it up the ass. Peaceful protest doesn't work. The Government know this.


  • #40
    Gurgle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,058 ✭✭✭Gurgle


    Where To wrote: »
    If you're working there's no valid reason you shouldn't be able to run a car.

    Having a mortgage you can't afford is not a valid reason.
    I assume you wouldn't make such a general sweeping statement without doing the calculations.

    Would you care to share the figures?

    Take a typical single income family on average industrial wage, 20 mile commute, 2 kids in school.

    As you object to people having mortgages they can't afford, take the housing cost as a guesstimate at the average rent for a 3 bed semi.

    Does €500 per month seem reasonable?


  • #41
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,808 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Gurgle wrote: »
    take the housing cost as a guesstimate at the average rent for a 3 bed semi.

    Does €500 per month seem reasonable?

    Multiply that by approx 2.5 and you're close.


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  • #42
    reginald
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 97 ✭✭reginald


    Hang sangiches and tea are my Fave


  • #43
    Mr. Manager
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,139 ✭✭✭✭Mr. Manager


    Thread needs a poll so people can click attending, not attend, then come on here and give out to those that didn't attend.


  • #44
    ASVM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 92 ✭✭ASVM


    I am shocked and disgusted at some of the earlier replies to Ministers post. The way Minister was shot down by some of the posters because of lack of knowledge on NAMA was I think nothing short of bullying.

    Protest can bring about change and it can show people soliditary but sadly that is so lacking in this country if some of the posters on boards.ie are anything to go by.No wonder it took this country so long to become independent - too much infighting.

    Change may not just be economic but also social change as I see it there are huge social divisions in Ireland and probably in the medium term they are only going to get worse.


    If a protest were organised in my area I would support it if not for myself say for people like the students who are still awaiting their grants.I am in the fortunate position to be leaving this country in the new year but I do feel for people who are suffering through these budgets.And while the protests in Greece may not actually save Greece in the long term at least they can say they protested and that their protest was listened to and acted upon. What can we say in Ireland?


  • #45
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,320 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    ASVM wrote: »
    If a protest were organised in my area I would support it if not for myself say for people like the students who are still awaiting their grants.I am in the fortunate position to be leaving this country in the new year but I do feel for people who are suffering through these budgets.And while the protests in Greece may not actually save Greece in the long term at least they can say they protested and that their protest was listened to and acted upon. What can we say in Ireland?



    We're still not as ****'d as Greece.


  • #46
    Gurgle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,058 ✭✭✭Gurgle


    Chucky the tree wrote: »
    We're still not as ****'d as Greece.
    Which is quite a good reason not to copy their 'solution'.


  • #47
    Daithi 1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,006 ✭✭✭Daithi 1


    Standing on the streets will do nothing. The criminals need to be dragged from their offices and beaten on the streets for all to witness. Make an example of them.


  • #48
    Lingua Franca
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,800 ✭✭✭Lingua Franca


    ASVM wrote: »
    Protest can bring about change and it can show people soliditary but sadly that is so lacking in this country if some of the posters on boards.ie are anything to go by.No wonder it took this country so long to become independent - too much infighting.

    I agree, and that's what really bugged me about the OP saying this:
    Minister wrote: »
    A protest that is not organised by Trade Unions, Left wing politics and other fring groups. Let it be organised by ordinary people on Facebook, twitter and word of mouth. People for people.

    They have the know-how and resources to put a public protest together. They organise and advertise protests for everyone and can manage to put their own various differences and grievances aside to join up for them. Why not stand in solidarity against austerity and cuts with them? Is it because you don't consider them to be people?

    The OP should also be aware that the minute he starts to organise such a protest he'll be labelled a fringe group and pigeonholed and marginalised and dismissed along with them.


  • #49
    floggg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,821 ✭✭✭floggg


    ASVM wrote: »
    I am shocked and disgusted at some of the earlier replies to Ministers post. The way Minister was shot down by some of the posters because of lack of knowledge on NAMA was I think nothing short of bullying.

    Protest can bring about change and it can show people soliditary but sadly that is so lacking in this country if some of the posters on boards.ie are anything to go by.No wonder it took this country so long to become independent - too much infighting.

    Change may not just be economic but also social change as I see it there are huge social divisions in Ireland and probably in the medium term they are only going to get worse.


    If a protest were organised in my area I would support it if not for myself say for people like the students who are still awaiting their grants.I am in the fortunate position to be leaving this country in the new year but I do feel for people who are suffering through these budgets.And while the protests in Greece may not actually save Greece in the long term at least they can say they protested and that their protest was listened to and acted upon. What can we say in Ireland?

    Yes, the same defiant protesting Greeks who deem the racist, homophobic, fascist, militant and violent golden dawn fit to be elected officials.

    I definitely don't want to be able to say we took that sort of stand.


  • #50
    JustAddWater
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,990 ✭✭✭JustAddWater


    Where To wrote: »
    You don't have to be rich to understand basic economics. . . . .

    You don't have to understand basic economics to see austerity is not working

    When you take and take from people, how do you expect people to spend again (economic growth)


  • #51
    Irishcrx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,861 ✭✭✭Irishcrx


    Gurgle wrote: »
    For the 3 million of us living outside the area serviced by Dublin Bus, the cheapest way to get anywhere is still the car*. So your suggestion is that people give up any attempt to pay their own way through working for a living.

    Does it not seem wrong to you that these people could live more comfortably if they quit their job, defaulted on the mortgage and put their hand out?

    *Driving a car is cheaper than 'public transport' even with just one person in the car.

    Yep , have to agree here. I drive to work everyday and while it's not cheap for me to do it, it still costs less than public transport if I didn't drive I'd have to get get a bus and a train to and from work everyday.


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  • #52
    Gurgle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,058 ✭✭✭Gurgle


    Lingua Franca wrote: »
    They organise and advertise protests for everyone and can manage to put their own various differences and grievances aside to join up for them.
    Really?
    When? Where?
    Lingua Franca wrote: »
    Why not stand in solidarity against austerity and cuts with them?
    Because 'solidarity against austerity and cuts' is a meaningless soundbyte. None of the looney parties who advocate this message have provided even the ghost of an alternative.

    Why?
    Because there isn't one. No organization can continue indefinitely spending more money than it takes in.

    Austerity isn't a government or party policy, its an absolute necessity. The only meaningful argument is on where to cut.

    JustAddWater wrote: »
    You don't have to understand basic economics to see austerity is not working
    When you take and take from people, how do you expect people to spend again (economic growth)
    That's not austerity, its the current plan to achieve austerity.
    The fact that this plan has failed doesn't mean austerity should be abandoned, it means it should be achieved with a different plan.


  • #53
    Where To
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,455 ✭✭✭Where To


    Gurgle wrote: »
    I assume you wouldn't make such a general sweeping statement without doing the calculations.

    Would you care to share the figures?

    Take a typical single income family on average industrial wage, 20 mile commute, 2 kids in school.

    As you object to people having mortgages they can't afford, take the housing cost as a guesstimate at the average rent for a 3 bed semi.

    Does €500 per month seem reasonable?
    There's no reqson why someone on average industrial wage shouldn't have a mortgage they CAN afford, argument is moot.

    Also, anyone renting a house at over 1k a month in any area without decent public transport links is, excuse my French, an idiot.


  • #54
    sfwcork
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,203 ✭✭✭sfwcork


    wrote:


    I am shocked and disgusted at some of the earlier replies to Ministers post. The way Minister was shot down by some of the posters because of lack of knowledge on NAMA was I think nothing short of bullying.

    Protest can bring about change and it can show people soliditary but sadly that is so lacking in this country if some of the posters on boards.ie are anything to go by.No wonder it took this country so long to become independent - too much infighting.

    Change may not just be economic but also social change as I see it there are huge social divisions in Ireland and probably in the medium term they are only going to get worse.


    If a protest were organised in my area I would support it if not for myself say for people like the students who are still awaiting their grants.I am in the fortunate position to be leaving this country in the new year but I do feel for people who are suffering through these budgets.And while the protests in Greece may not actually save Greece in the long term at least they can say they protested and that their protest was listened to and acted upon. What can we say in Ireland?

    and what gives you the right to sit up on your high horse judging everyone? what have you done? sweet F A i suppose


  • #55
    Minister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 444 ✭✭Minister


    sfwcork wrote: »
    and what gives you the right to sit up on your high horse judging everyone? what have you done? sweet F A i suppose

    Again, can I ask that the post is critiqued and the poster not attacked please. It is human nature to have differing viewpoints. As we get older, I am sure we can all realise this.

    Thus, I would ask you to refrain from attacking a person who has the courage to put their thoghts and ideas onto a public forum. Thank you.


  • #56
    Gurgle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,058 ✭✭✭Gurgle


    Where To wrote: »
    There's no reqson why someone on average industrial wage shouldn't have a mortgage they CAN afford, argument is moot.

    Also, anyone renting a house at over 1k a month in any area without decent public transport links is, excuse my French, an idiot.

    Mate, there are no decent public transport links. Outside of the Dublin bus area, there is no way to get from any point in this country to another point 20 miles away by public transport without spending more than driving would cost. (Intercity services are more efficient, you'd need 2 or 3 people in the car to make it cheaper)

    I suggested €500 as housing cost for a family to make your calculations easier.

    Not that I was expecting to see any calculations.
    This:
    Where To wrote:
    If you're working there's no valid reason you shouldn't be able to run a car.
    was quite obviously a throwaway statement without any knowledge or experience behind it.


  • #57
    Lingua Franca
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,800 ✭✭✭Lingua Franca


    Gurgle wrote: »
    Really?
    When? Where?

    I don't know anymore, I emigrated a year and half ago. There was plenty going on before then. Check their websites, they often have stuff going on.

    Because 'solidarity against austerity and cuts' is a meaningless soundbyte. None of the looney parties who advocate this message have provided even the ghost of an alternative.

    Why?
    Because there isn't one. No organization can continue indefinitely spending more money than it takes in.

    Austerity isn't a government or party policy, its an absolute necessity. The only meaningful argument is on where to cut.


    I wasn't asking you, it was directed at the OP for asking why people aren't protesting, except for the people who are (or "looney parties", if you prefer), who he doesn't want to protest with.

    You can have the argument for and against austerity in other threads with other people, I was responding to the OP about the thread topic.


  • #58
    downey2003
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 117 ✭✭downey2003


    sfwcork wrote: »
    you never answered my question on if theyre will be finger food.I cant protest on an empty stomach!

    Try eating your fingers!


  • #59
    Gurgle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,058 ✭✭✭Gurgle


    Lingua Franca wrote: »
    There was plenty going on before then. Check their websites, they often have stuff going on.
    But their position is always the same: We don't care who pays for it or how, so long as its not us.


  • #60
    King of Kings
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,695 ✭✭✭King of Kings


    Gurgle wrote: »
    None of the looney parties who advocate this message have provided even the ghost of an alternative.

    .

    well I heard stephen donnelly TD on primetime and newstalk this week and I like the cut of his jib.

    cuts and bridging the deficit is no doubt a given but the government are going about it wrong,


    It's ****ed that special needs assistants are cut from vunerable kids while quango's get funding.
    So if you want ideas - how about look after vunerable people like kids who need SNA and let the quangos burn - we dont actually need most of them.

    many can be amalgamated or got rid of
    why can the civil service absorb them?




    I could go on


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  • #61
    Lingua Franca
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,800 ✭✭✭Lingua Franca


    Gurgle wrote: »
    But their position is always the same: We don't care who pays for it or how, so long as its not us.

    I really don't want to debate about austerity, and I'm certainly not pushing any of those groups on anyone, nor am I here to fight their corner.

    I posted to point out that the OP wants to set up a protest group that will become just another one of the protest groups that he wants nothing to do with. That's all.


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