Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 12/13 MOD POST #232

batistuta9 · 01-12-2012 09:34PM

Frisbee wrote: »

It's Wenger who is managing Podolski, a player who came to us with a great record and a huge work rate, but now meanders around the pitch like he doesn't give a fúck.

It's Wenger who will run Wilshere into the ground again this year.

Marty McFly wrote: »

I have been one of Wengers biggest critics over recent years, but yes I was still one of them who were "happy" with the start of the season.

It wasnt that we were happy we were trying to be positive ;)we had new players bedding in, new assistant manager etc no harm in trying to be psoitive at times and believing the team will come good. Plus I honestly think weve gotten worse as the season has gone on, case in point Podolski the first few games I think a lot of fans fell in love with him, he took on players, he tracked back, he tackled hard as the season has gone on its like the Wenger/Arsenal effect has kicked in and he no longer shows the same effort, fight hes been famed for throughout his career.

Podolski is known as a lazy player so you can stop making shít up just for the sake of a rant

& the same wenger who rested wilshere when he had a good opportunity at villa

wonga77 wrote: »

To add to that list Frisbee

Not getting rid of the deadwood. Id rather have one good player than 5 guys who are never going to make it at the club but are still kept

isn't it a pity you just can't take over another team for 5 minutes in real life and buy them from arsenal

you can't blame wenger if nobody else bids for them ffs

Pierce_1991 wrote: »

I don't feel like I'm against Wenger, however:

1. I feel we have 11 players that should be capable of mounting a challenge for the title and other trophies. They are actually good players.

2. You can't blame the board for the 90 minutes of tripe we were served up this afternoon. Gazidis didn't play Gervinho and Usmanov couldn't have stopped Jenkinson losing that ball.

Which makes me conclude, Wenger is the problem.

1 - realistically the only hope of a trophy was/is the league or FA cups, they're good enough players there - good enough for top 4 - but not for the league & they'd need a lot of luck for the CL

2 - did wenger make jenkinson lose the ball? did wenger make gervinho miss the header?

maybe it's the players

Chucky the tree · 01-12-2012 09:41PM

batistuta9 wrote: »

maybe it's the players

The player(s) he bought and picked.

Mr.Micro · 01-12-2012 10:09PM

batistuta9 wrote: »

- did wenger make jenkinson lose the ball? did wenger make gervinho miss the header?

maybe it's the players

Its both IMO. Confidence has been lost in Wenger. Ok we got to the CL again, but that has almost been a given for some years. No longer though. I think that the players do not have the belief in Wenger, that players at Man Utd do in Ferguson. Its clear to me that belief is gone. Wenger was a great manager and maybe could be again, but the last few years his magic has gone. On paper Arsenal have a good team but not in practice, alas.

Marty McFly · 01-12-2012 10:15PM

batistuta9 wrote: »

Podolski is known as a lazy player so you can stop making shít up just for the sake of a rant

making **** up for the sake of a rant so I made up the fact Podolski at the start of the season ran the sock of himself, tracked back, made hard tackles , took on players linked up brilliantly with Cazorla and then as the season has worn on that has happened less and less am I?

batistuta9 wrote: »

isn't it a pity you just can't take over another team for 5 minutes in real life and buy them from arsenal

you can't blame wenger if nobody else bids for them ffs

You mean cant blame Wenger if nobody bids for the players who are deadwood who he bought in the first place and deemed good enough for Arsenal?

batistuta9 wrote: »

1 - realistically the only hope of a trophy was/is the league or FA cups, they're good enough players there - good enough for top 4 - but not for the league & they'd need a lot of luck for the CL

2 - did wenger make jenkinson lose the ball? did wenger make gervinho miss the header?

maybe it's the players

I rate a lot of our players individually very highly, so maybe its the tactics and motivational skills or lack off offered by our managment team?

Sergio · 01-12-2012 10:16PM

Ive lost all confidence in the man to be honest and think its time for change at the emirates. Nobody can say he hasnt been given enough time to get us competing at the top again. Weve lost so many world class players the last few years and the cracks are apparent to everyone.
I dont even want to see him given money in january to buy players bottom line i want a new manager!

KINGVictor · 01-12-2012 10:23PM

batistuta9 wrote: »

Podolski is known as a lazy player so you can stop making shít up just for the sake of a rant

& the same wenger who rested wilshere when he had a good opportunity at villa

isn't it a pity you just can't take over another team for 5 minutes in real life and buy them from arsenal

you can't blame wenger if nobody else bids for them ffs

1 - realistically the only hope of a trophy was/is the league or FA cups, they're good enough players there - good enough for top 4 - but not for the league & they'd need a lot of luck for the CL

2 - did wenger make jenkinson lose the ball? did wenger make gervinho miss the header?

maybe it's the players

And your point? If it was known that Poldoski is a lazy player as you say, why did Wenger invest €10 million on him?

As much as a lot of fans (myself included) see RVP, Song, Adebayor, Nasri etc as traitors, maybe its time we start realising that there are intrinsic issues in the Club that need to be sorted out.

I love Arsene and his contributions to the club but it seems like he has a financial vested interest that is detrimental to the progress of Arsenal as a club. He is a very intelligent man and I think he should stay as Manager till the end of the season at least but I dont buy the argument that the blame should go to the players. In normal circumstances, he would have been fired a few weeks ago but we have that sentimental attachment to him (rightly so) but it is all going peer shaped at the moment.

Instead of castigating individual players, I think you should be concentrating on the person managing them and why he isnt getting results. United are currently on top of the league and I have not seen anything exceptional about them apart from the fact the players know the repercussions of not winning. It looks as if Arsene is not commanding the same authority and direction. Maybe we should stop critiquing until next season when Wilshere, Ox and maybe even new additions like Carzola are looking to move elsewhere -Dont be decieved, at this stage I will be surprised if they are not thinking about it.

01-12-2012 10:39PM

Pool fan here.

You still have one of the best managers in the game but selling your best players every season is bound to have a serious affect.

With arsenals revenue more cash possibly should be made available for replacements but that's probably another debate.

Imo, it's arsenal and spurs fighting for 4th come seasons end.

tayto lover · 01-12-2012 10:47PM

Wenger WAS a good manager but not any longer I fear. He now takes things for granted.

Ferguson has been at the top for many years and wouldn't put up with the performances Wenger now puts up with.
An interesting thing I noticed in the interviews by both managers after today's games.

1. Wenger said the players "underperformed and were tired. The performance was not good".
2. Ferguson said he was "not happy with his team's defensive performance and would immediately tackle it, you'll see better from now on because that's not good enough for Man Utd".

Even with the bad performances one team lost and the other team won.
Ferguson would not put up with the performances of his team if he were at Arsenal.

bad2dabone · 01-12-2012 11:08PM

I'm a huge admirer of Wenger and i'm thankful for all that he's done for the club. It's killing me though how weak and toothless we've been the past couple of seasons. I was hopeful with the signings of 3 internationals this summer, despite the RvP situation. But we've been just as lame, if not lamer, than last year. Wenger's done great things for Arsenal, modernising the club and keeping us in CL for so many years while the club financed a magnificent stadium. But he's not above serious questions being asked of him, especially now. He wont ever be sacked by that board, he's a directors dream - qualify for CL, dont spend much money, make profits each year. But as someone said it seems the players aren't playing for him, and there's a marked contrast between the fight that the Utd players have and ours. I don't want him sacked, but I think it might be best if he does "move upstairs" when his current contract is up. I'd look to the likes of Laudrup or Martinez.

MaxPower89 · 01-12-2012 11:31PM

Only a small thing, but for the 2nd goal today, Chamberlain had a simple pass to Jenkinson to put him in down the wing for the cross, he plays a careless pass behind him forcing him to turn away from goal. The box was loaded with 7 or 8 players, and with a decent delivery might just have scored. Really basic stuff, the players just arent totally zoned in and focused.

KINGVictor · 01-12-2012 11:51PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Wenger WAS a good manager but not any longer I fear. He now takes things for granted.

Ferguson has been at the top for many years and wouldn't put up with the performances Wenger now puts up with.
An interesting thing I noticed in the interviews by both managers after today's games.

1. Wenger said the players "underperformed and were tired. The performance was not good".
2. Ferguson said he was "not happy with his team's defensive performance and would immediately tackle it, you'll see better from now on because that's not good enough for Man Utd".

Even with the bad performances one team lost and the other team won.
Ferguson would not put up with the performances of his team if he were at Arsenal.

I said same in my earlier post -

Fegurson is a monster! He is not perfect but he has the skills to maintain team discipline and also bring out the best in his players. Arsene is a good coach as well but I think he has let himself too much into the system- to the extent that when he is talking you cant differentiate between a board member and himself. It is so conflicting.

wandatowell · 02-12-2012 02:41AM

As ****ty as things are with Arsenal at the moment this thread has been a pretty good read tonight.

Arsene doesnt instill any discipline in the team anymore and probably hasn't for a few years now. Weither its tactical or otherwise, that is going to be his downfall. The young fellas in the team probably look at him the same way I used to look at my demented maths teacher. All his best players he ever had at the club left him and moved on. Each time they did, he was defied and made to look weaker and weaker. This has damaged the club to the point we are pretty much a laughing stock.

He is a shadow of his former shadow.

Time to freshen things up.

gosplan · 02-12-2012 10:29AM

rarnes1 wrote: »

Pool fan here.

You still have one of the best managers in the game but selling your best players every season is bound to have a serious affect.

With arsenals revenue more cash possibly should be made available for replacements but that's probably another debate.

Imo, it's arsenal and spurs fighting for 4th come seasons end.

Get outta here with your rationality!!!!

People here are continually confusing not knowing what to do with laziness.

Teams have realised that if you sit back, only attack by committing 3/4 players to fast counterattacks, then this Arsenal side will really struggle to break you down and somewhere along the line you'll probably nick a goal.

Funnily enough, the same thing has happened to Madrid this season, although they are better than us obviously.

Look at it rationally. We play with two wingers but we don't cross. We play some kind of Barca model that relies on huge amounts of individual skill and genius to break through organised defences. We have one player that fits that model - Cazorla. In front of him we need three new players if we're going to try and do this successfully.

It was the same last year but the were the moments from RVP that got us through.

The system needs to go or we need to get the appropriate players.

IMO, it needs to go or we need another alternative at the least. When this posession based 4-3-3 came it was all about controlling the midfield which in turn won you the game. Now teams have realised that you can cede the midfield, give up posession and still more or less be comfortable but from a position deep in your own half. You continually hear about Barca coming through games like this thanks to Messi alone. What do we have?

Santi101 · 02-12-2012 11:57AM

Adams was right about Vermaelen. This guy is vastly overrated for attacking contributions of all things....doesnt think or play like a proper defender.

G1032 · 02-12-2012 12:02PM

Just heard that Peter Hillwood suffered a heart attack last night. Pressure/stress getting to him too
Hope he'll be Ok.

Galvasean · 02-12-2012 12:09PM

gosplan wrote: »

We play some kind of Barca model that relies on huge amounts of individual skill and genius to break through organised defences.

Reminds me of something my Dad said to me yesterday:
"Wenger is trying to play Barcelona football without Barcelona footballers. It's like trying to build a battle tank out of sticks. It may look the part for a while, but once it comes under pressure it falls asunder."

wandatowell · 02-12-2012 12:26PM

Now id just settle for us being hard to beat

Galvasean · 02-12-2012 01:07PM

So, who wants to start throwing about random names of footballers we like in hope that we sign someone in January?

emergingstar · 02-12-2012 01:18PM

Galvasean wrote: »

So, who wants to start throwing about random names of footballers we like in hope that we sign someone in January?

Mvila, huntlaeer, zaha, Henry on loan

gnfnrhead · 02-12-2012 01:21PM

Galvasean wrote: »

So, who wants to start throwing about random names of footballers we like in hope that we sign someone in January?

Jordan Ayew just because he bangs them in for me in Football Manager :pac:

Other than Henry, it'll be pure luck if anyone correctly predicts who we go for, if anyone.

Santi101 · 02-12-2012 01:22PM

We're desperate for a midfielder. Arteta is a good player but he's getting on now and is being tasked with far too much defensive responsibility.....that's not his natural game, he's also slow across the ground. We need someone with a bit of athleticism.

And it's arguably the worst attack we've had under Wenger. No top quality there at all in the front 3. Giroud is decent at best, technically average, couldnt trap a bag of cement, slow as a wet week, and looks mentally weak. He'll score a certain number if he plays every week but then so did Bendtner and Chamakh when they were starting alot. Gervinho is one of the worst players I've ever seen in a red shirt, one-way ticket to Africa would be nice there. Podolski is a solid player, but limited. Beyond his shooting technique I dont see much high quality there. Oxlade hasnt kicked on this year, Sterling is outperforming him. Theo has scored a good number but padded his stats in the Carling Cup(or whatever its now called)...he's never been hugely consistent in the league and struggles without space available.

Really bog standard Arsenal team these days. We wont win another title under Wenger, but then I wouldnt be confident about the board hiring a new man to do any better.

Santi101 · 02-12-2012 01:24PM

And can we please leave Henry be, remember him for what he was as a legend and true great. Pathetic that we might bring him back 2 years running. If anything it hammers home how far we've fallen when a semi-retired Arsenal legend can still come back and outperform the dross we have now. Same when Campbell returned a few years back.

People say that it wont matter if we sign others too but that never happens. Sign for the present and future, no more stop gaps.

Fuzzy_Dunlop · 02-12-2012 01:48PM

Santi101 wrote: »

And can we please leave Henry be, remember him for what he was as a legend and true great. Pathetic that we might bring him back 2 years running. If anything it hammers home how far we've fallen when a semi-retired Arsenal legend can still come back and outperform the dross we have now. Same when Campbell returned a few years back.

People say that it wont matter if we sign others too but that never happens. Sign for the present and future, no more stop gaps.

United brought scholes back from retirement. How far have they fallen?

Santi101 · 02-12-2012 01:57PM

Who cares what United are doing, they are not trophyless since 2005. Mind you, a weak midfield can be masked when you have top strikers.......good to see we've helped United in that regard.

Fuzzy_Dunlop · 02-12-2012 02:23PM

Santi101 wrote: »

Who cares what United are doing, they are not trophyless since 2005. Mind you, a weak midfield can be masked when you have top strikers.......good to see we've helped United in that regard.

So what you previously deemed to be indicative of our lack of success is in fact not so. Good to know.

gnfnrhead · 02-12-2012 02:36PM

Santi101 wrote: »

Who cares what United are doing, they are not trophyless since 2005. Mind you, a weak midfield can be masked when you have top strikers.......good to see we've helped United in that regard.

I dont see how it's bad when Arsenal do it, but good when United do the same, if not worse due to Scholes having retired before hand. Based on your logic, United have fallen further than Arsenal by having to bring a player out of retirement. I dont think anyone believes United have fallen very far at all.

Santi101 · 02-12-2012 02:39PM

In our case, yes it is.

Signing Henry again is a ploy to bring a feelgood factor back to the club, replace a **** player who has gone to Africa, but ultimately not do anything to push the team on. We're a laughing stock - cheap, ambitionless, stagnant and actually pretty arrogant from what I can see, which is strange for a side that has achieved nothing and has 5 wins from 15 games.

Santi101 · 02-12-2012 02:45PM

gnfnrhead wrote: »

I dont see how it's bad when Arsenal do it, but good when United do the same, if not worse due to Scholes having retired before hand. Based on your logic, United have fallen further than Arsenal by having to bring a player out of retirement. I dont think anyone believes United have fallen very far at all.

It was pathetic when United did it too, Lord knows how you extracted that logic from my post. My point was who cares one iota what they have done? We have our own needs and flaws - and bringing back Henry isnt going to solve any for a significant period or indeed looking forward.

Gervinho out, Henry on loan....maybe Zaha replacing Walcott. That's how I see it going. Zaha seems utterly pointless to me, we already have Chamberlain in that mould and are waiting for another few years for him to deliver consistently.

double GG · 02-12-2012 02:47PM

Swansea away in the FA Cup. Tough draw.

Fight_Night · 02-12-2012 02:58PM

Youth investment will only get you so far in the financial environment of football. Arsenal are a sham at the moment. On paper you could argue they are only missing 3 or 4 players but in my honest opinion you need about 10 new players. So basically a new team. Realistically you won't even get 3 new players(as in big players) and risk not qualifying for CL and as has been said, you could go the way of Liverpool. Bear in mind this is all assuming that you want to play Wenger's Barca-esque football. If you were to replace Wenger with a different manager who had a more feasible playing style, you'd begin to see consistent results. Wenger is a legend but he's living off his reputation at this stage.

Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 12/13 MOD POST #232

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