Ballymaloe and Tim Allen the sex offender.

HeyThereDeliah · 02-12-2012 07:11AM

lazygal wrote: »

I know its yonks ago since Tim Allen was convicted of child porn charges (http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/shameful-truth-that-lay-behind-ballymaloes-wholesome-image-487933.html) but it really annoys me that the family's business has managed to airbrush the case out of its history. The fawning attitude of the Irish media towards this family is pretty appalling, considering the family started out denying anything at all when the porn was found on a Ballymaloe computer and then stood in total solidarity with Tim Allen when he was convicted. I know we'd all like to think we'd support our family but would you really support your dad/brother/inlaw if they were convicted of something like this? I can't get my head around how this family get such a free pass on something so disgusting.

This happened in 2003, why are you bringing this up now ?
It's not fair to discredit all family members just because of one member of said family.

Is there something missing here? Something you know that we don't? Rumours?

I'm actually surprised this thread has not been locked.

opti0nal · 02-12-2012 09:45AM

Scioch wrote: »

Well doctor, ever since my lunch box was robbed when I was 5 I have been having these urges to dispense my own personal brand of justice. :rolleyes:

Indeed, unresolved childhood trauma. It can be very influential on a person's character.

Images corresponding to your violent sexual fantasies are illegal in the UK.

doyle61 · 02-12-2012 11:22AM

Lollers wrote: »

Yep I remember that rumour too, thought it was just me. That there was more to this case than the public knew about .

I heard that rumour years ago aswell. Im from the same area as derina and know a lot of people who are close to her family and lets just say the rumour has strong foundations

lazygal · 02-12-2012 02:15PM

doyle61 wrote: »

I heard that rumour years ago aswell. Im from the same area as derina and know a lot of people who are close to her family and lets just say the rumour has strong foundations

I still think that having a 'rumour' is a very convenient ruse, just letting people speculate that someone convicted of something might not really be guilty, rather than accepting that a high profile member of a well regarded family downloaded child porn and was convicted of the crime. If there are 'strong foundations' to believe someone was incorrectly convicted, I'm sure some sort of appeal would have been made.

Odysseus · 02-12-2012 02:25PM

lazygal wrote: »

I still think that having a 'rumour' is a very convenient ruse, just letting people speculate that someone convicted of something might not really be guilty, rather than accepting that a high profile member of a well regarded family downloaded child porn and was convicted of the crime. If there are 'strong foundations' to believe someone was incorrectly convicted, I'm sure some sort of appeal would have been made.

So what is it about this case that really bothers you Lazygal? I would certainly be aware of worse cases in this country.

The family have moved on form this incident, but you seem to suggest that justice is lacking. If that is so what would you like to see happen?

strandroad · 02-12-2012 02:38PM

HeyThereDeliah wrote: »

This happened in 2003, why are you bringing this up now ?

Well they still support him and they are still selling stuff that he benefits from. I for one am grateful for this reminder as I did not remember about this story. I will stay away from their products now; there are plenty of other choices.

baldbear · 02-12-2012 02:40PM

Odysseus wrote: »

So what is it about this case that really bothers you Lazygal? I would certainly be aware of worse cases in this country.

The family have moved on form this incident, but you seem to suggest that justice is lacking. If that is so what would you like to see happen?

I think some people are annoyed that Allen is making alot of money still and his downloading of kids been sexually abused has been largely forgotten. He should of got jail. He supported child abusers.

goose2005 · 02-12-2012 02:45PM

ShooterSF wrote: »

I don't think I could bring myself to watch Home Improvement any more personally.

The actor Tim Allen was no saint either - did two years in prison for dealing cocaine.

HeyThereDeliah · 02-12-2012 02:51PM

mhge wrote: »

Well they still support him and they are still selling stuff that he benefits from. I for one am grateful for this reminder as I did not remember about this story. I will stay away from their products now; there are plenty of other choices.

If he went to jail would you still feel the same way about his family and their products?
I think it's unfair to drag it up again and there is an ulterior motive behind it IMO.

Odysseus · 02-12-2012 02:56PM

mhge wrote: »

Well they still support him and they are still selling stuff that he benefits from. I for one am grateful for this reminder as I did not remember about this story. I will stay away from their products now; there are plenty of other choices.

On what grounds will you not buy any of their products? I really cannot see a reason why not to if their products are good.

Are we to stop all sex offenders from entering employment?

strandroad · 02-12-2012 02:57PM

HeyThereDeliah wrote: »

If he went to jail would you still feel the same way about his family and their products?

But he has no entitlement to my money whatsoever, I can buy anyone's relish. I can choose not to support a convicted paedophile if I want to.

To answer your question, yes, perhaps if he did time as proper penalty and his family were not glossing over it calling him "honourable", perhaps I would feel different. But he didn't and they did, no?

Capt'n Midnight · 02-12-2012 02:59PM

NoQuarter wrote: »

The actual position is the complete opposite to what you just said.

My Bad

Hadn't realised that the 2010 act now means truth can be used as an absolute defence.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1961/en/act/pub/0040/print.html

Plea of truth of matters charged on trial for defamatory libel and that publication was for public benefit.

6.—On the trial of any indictment for a defamatory libel, the person charged having pleaded such plea as hereinafter mentioned, the truth of the matters charged may be inquired into but shall not amount to a defence, unless it was for the public benefit that the said matters charged should be published

strandroad · 02-12-2012 02:59PM

Odysseus wrote: »

On what grounds will you not buy any of their products? I really cannot see a reason why not to if their products are good.

But what is the reason to buy, if others are equally good and do not come with the baggage?

Odysseus wrote: »

Are we to stop all sex offenders from entering employment?

Not at all, I would not ban anyone else from buying from him - it's a personal choice!

actuallylike · 02-12-2012 03:00PM

previous user wrote: »

They get a free ride because they're the eliTE the eliTE c%nts of this society get to píss on all our heads and create the shít society we have today, expecially thouse smug elitisT D4 CÚNTS

Don't forget to burn the bondholders while you're at it.

HeyThereDeliah · 02-12-2012 03:04PM

mhge wrote: »

But he has no entitlement to my money whatsoever, I can buy anyone's relish. I can choose not to support a convicted paedophile if I want to.

To answer your question, yes, perhaps if he did time as proper penalty and his family were not glossing over it calling him "honourable", perhaps I would feel different. But he didn't and they did, no?

I see your point but its time to move on and why stop buying something you like, you are only depriving yourself.
I'm sure there are lots of things we could boycott but we don't. He is not the first person to do something wrong and blaming his family is not fair.

Allyall · 02-12-2012 03:04PM

I personally don't like the fact that he paid €40,000 to stay out of prison.

As for the "Rumours" - They would've done more harm than good, if they wanted to start a rumour, it wouldn't have been the one i heard. - Not really a "Convenient Ruse"

The €40,000, says as much about our Justice system as it does anything else.

But i also am happy for this gentle reminder, as i did not know - "There's €40,000 now let that be the end of it."

I don't think that Ballymaloe should be punished, but i do think he should. If me not buying their products is stopping him from earning as much as he could, then good..

Nobody is really being "Punished" by people refusing to buy Ballymaloe products. Also, there are still plenty of people that will continue to buy them, He just won't make an extra €3 per month from my household.

B.A._Baracus · 02-12-2012 03:05PM

TIM ALLEN IS A SEX OFFENDER?!?!?

no way

.... :pac:

mike65 · 02-12-2012 03:10PM

Its just as well for Germany that the world didn't think this way about Siemens, Krupps, Volkswagen etc.

Odysseus · 02-12-2012 03:11PM

baldbear wrote: »

I think some people are annoyed that Allen is making alot of money still and his downloading of kids been sexually abused has been largely forgotten. He should of got jail. He supported child abusers.

I could be wrong as I don't know a lot about the case; however, there is a scale to sex offenses. As best as I can remember, he was on the lower end of the scale. Wer do not send all sex offenders to jail, he got community service, and placed on the sex offenders list. On top of that he has the shame of the whole of the country knowing his offense.

Like it or know he was dealt with by the courts, his offense would have had a significant impact on his life. We do not have a right to say he cannot earn money, and maybe a lot of it.

It is strange when public opinion offen cries out for stronger opinion than some people who have been abused. By this I mean all the cries of cut their balls off, and other such attitudes.

At the end of the day we have to make a distinction between those who may look at such images and those who act on them. We cannot give the person who looks at such images the same sente4nse as those who have actually abused children.

Even with those who abuse, the is a scale on which these acts need to be situated, because their is a big difference between the opposing ends of that scale.

Rather than trying to continue to punish those who have served their sentenses our time would be better spent trying to provide support and treatment for those who experienced abuse and those who have committed it.

Capt'n Midnight · 02-12-2012 03:12PM

goose2005 wrote: »

The actor Tim Allen was no saint either - did two years in prison for dealing cocaine.

But that was white collar crime :pac:

When blacks get collared for cocaine they get much longer sentences for the same amount for the crack.

Real Life · 02-12-2012 03:13PM

Wattle wrote: »

I just had Ballymaloe relish on my sausages and it was delicious.

pedophile lover

Death and Taxes · 02-12-2012 03:14PM

Allyall wrote: »

I personally don't like the fact that he paid €40,000 to stay out of prison.

As for the "Rumours" - They would've done more harm than good, if they wanted to start a rumour, it wouldn't have been the one i heard. - Not really a "Convenient Ruse"

The €40,000, says as much about our Justice system as it does anything else.

But i also am happy for this gentle reminder, as i did not know - "There's €40,000 now let that be the end of it."

I don't think that Ballymaloe should be punished, but i do think he should. If me not buying their products is stopping him from earning as much as he could, then good..

Nobody is really being "Punished" by people refusing to buy Ballymaloe products. Also, there are still plenty of people that will continue to buy them, He just won't make an extra €3 per month from my household.

Yeesh, I'd say he is inconsolable with grief over that!

Allyall · 02-12-2012 03:14PM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

But that was white collar crime :pac:

When blacks get collared for cocaine they get much longer sentences for the same amount for the crack.

They never have the same amount of crack..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ImZTwYwCug

Allyall · 02-12-2012 03:15PM

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Yeesh, I'd say he is inconsolable with grief over that!

That was my point..

HeyThereDeliah · 02-12-2012 03:15PM

Real Life wrote: »

pedophile lover

He was not a pedophile, was he? Did he not just look at pics?

Death and Taxes · 02-12-2012 03:17PM

HeyThereDeliah wrote: »

He was not a pedophile, was he? Did he not just look at pics?

Most people who use the word Paedophile have no real understanding of what that tern means in a modern clinical diagnostic sense.

Allyall · 02-12-2012 03:17PM

HeyThereDeliah wrote: »

He was not a pedophile, was he? Did he not just look at pics?

paedophile - an adult who is sexually attracted to children

I presume that's why he was looking at them.

strandroad · 02-12-2012 03:17PM

HeyThereDeliah wrote: »

I see your point but its time to move on and why stop buying something you like, you are only depriving yourself.

Luckily their stuff is not my favourite otherwise I'd have a real ethical conundrum

But I gave up chorizo (and other meats) for ethical reasons so have good practice!

I'm sure there are lots of things we could boycott but we don't. He is not the first person to do something wrong and blaming his family is not fair.

I guess it depends on whether the family admits it and moves on making sure that the person is question has no access to children whatsoever or closes ranks around him... but that's a whole different discussion!

Death and Taxes · 02-12-2012 03:26PM

Allyall wrote: »

paedophile - an adult who is sexually attracted to children

I presume that's why he was looking at them.

That is NOT a definition of paedohile.

An accurate definition would be:
As a medical diagnosis, pedophilia, or paedophilia, is a psychiatric disorder in persons 16 years of age or older typically characterized by a primary or exclusive sexual interest in prepubescent children (generally age 13 years or younger, as specific diagnosis criteria for the disorder extends the cut-off point for prepubescence to age 13.

Note the use of the terms Primary or Exclusive sexual interest in children.

Most of those termed as paedophiles by the screaming masses do not meet the definition at all. That is not to condone or excuse child sexual abuse, but if we are going to comment on it we should at least arm ourselves with the facts as oppossed to our emotions.

Real Life · 02-12-2012 03:26PM

HeyThereDeliah wrote: »

He was not a pedophile, was he? Did he not just look at pics?

i wasnt actually being serious

Ballymaloe and Tim Allen the sex offender.

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