ALL Passport Related Questions in here! Please Read Post#1 first!

GoodisonPark · 28-11-2012 09:56AM

Sent my son's passport application off by Passport Express last Friday and his new passport arrived today.
Is this a record?

GoodisonPark · 28-11-2012 09:56AM

Sent my son's passport application off by Passport Express last Friday and his new passport arrived today.
Is this a record?

Kotek Besar · 28-11-2012 10:00AM

GoodisonPark wrote: »

Sent my son's passport application off by Passport Express last Friday and his new passport arrived today.
Is this a record?

It's good going all right, 3 working days is excellent. Plus, it would have been only 2 working days from receipt by Passport Office! Excellent service.

Our man in Havana · 28-11-2012 10:01AM

It is always fast this time of year. No headless chickens queuing up looking for fast passports for their beer swill holidays in Spain etc.

munchkin_utd · 28-11-2012 02:19PM

GoodisonPark wrote: »

Sent my son's passport application off by Passport Express last Friday and his new passport arrived today.
Is this a record?

well (...after waiting 6+weeks for my actual proper passport) I rang the embassy in Berlin at about 4 pm on a Wednesday evening and the emergency passport was in my hand in Munich the opposite end of the country the next morning before 9am.

I'd have to say though that the details were already scanned in their system for processing by the Dublin main office so it was "only" a matter of printing it. But still, I was travelling to Hungary on the Friday so was bricking it that I'd miss the trip so was very glad of the über prompt service.

Gatica · 29-11-2012 10:34PM

I applied for my first Irish passport. I got the documents back with a letter asking to submit my national passport. I also have another citizenship, but I didn't think that Irish passport application has anything to do with any other passports. Did I just get luck of the draw stupid civil servant or should I have actually sent my other passport to them? I wouldn't want them to keep it, cos it belongs technically to authorities of the other country, plus I still use it.

munchkin_utd · 30-11-2012 09:14AM

Gatica wrote: »

I applied for my first Irish passport. I got the documents back with a letter asking to surrended my national passport. <snip>

that is strange
this is what the passport website says :

Q. If I apply for Irish citizenship will I have to surrender my existing citizenship?
A. As far as Irish law is concerned, there is no difficulty about holding Irish citizenship and at the same time citizenship of another State. Some other countries, however, have citizenship laws which do not permit the holding of another citizenship alongside their own, or place restrictions on the holding of more than one citizenship. If you are already a citizen of another country and are considering becoming an Irish citizen (whether by exercising an entitlement, making a declaration or applying for naturalisation), you would be well advised to check first what the position is under the law of your present country of citizenship, in case any step you might take might be regarded under that law as depriving you of that citizenship.

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/WP11000030#Q10

they will need the passport for an extended period of time of 4 weeks approx though so maybe that is what they meant.

Gatica · 30-11-2012 09:57AM

why do they need a foreign passport for 4 weeks? I cannot see this on the website.

Kotek Besar · 30-11-2012 10:37AM

Gatica wrote: »

I applied for my first Irish passport. I got the documents back with a letter asking to submit my national passport. I also have another citizenship, but I didn't think that Irish passport application has anything to do with any other passports. Did I just get luck of the draw stupid civil servant or should I have actually sent my other passport to them? I wouldn't want them to keep it, cos it belongs technically to authorities of the other country, plus I still use it.

That's unconstitutional. Every Irish citizen is equal. It's inappropriate to demand a document from an Irish citizen as a condition of issuing a passport, that is not demanded from other Irish citizens under the same circumstances.

From the DFA website.

First time adult applicants should submit:

a completed and suitably witnessed passport application form and four photographs, (two of which must have the application form number written on the reverse and be signed by an approved witness);
The Passport Service reserves the right to contact witnesses as required. Passport applicants should therefore note that where it is not possible make contact with those witnessing applications then it is likely that the application will be rejected.
the long form birth certificate of the applicant and a civil marriage certificate, if appropriate, and evidence of entitlement to Irish citizenship ,where applicable;
additional form of photo-identification; e.g. certified copy of a drivers licence, work ID; student card; social club membership; passport from other country etc.;
documentary evidence to show use of name, e.g. payslips; records of unemployment or disability payment; bank statement; college registration etc.; and
evidence of residency at the application address, e.g. utility bills; official correspondence from public or private sector etc.

No mention of the requirement to also submit a passport from another country if you have one. It would be a bizarre request anyway.

Gatica · 30-11-2012 10:50AM

Well, unconstitutional or not, turns out that's exactly what they want. I was gonna print and send them the list of things required, asking why they're requesting extra stuff, but realised that at the bottom of said list it says:

In addition, applicants may also be required to provide further information and/or attend for interview at one of the Department’s offices.

not just information, but documentation....

I called them this morning, and apparently for first time application for naturalised citizens, you do have to submit a current or latest passport by which you either left the country of birth or entered Ireland. Doesn't say it on the website, but by the way I was told this, they implied that this is standard procedure and I should've known that. Don't know how though, but main thing, I know now.
Not having citizenship of my country of birth, I can only submit my other current foreign passport, with an explanation as to why it's not the passport from my country of birth. Hopefully I have it back in time for my winter vacation.

Kotek Besar · 30-11-2012 11:05AM

Gatica wrote: »

I called them this morning, and apparently for first time application for naturalised citizens, you do have to submit a current or latest passport by which you either left the country of birth or entered Ireland. Doesn't say it on the website, but by the way I was told this, they implied that this is standard procedure and I should've known that.

Well, I didn't submit my "other" passport and neither did my wife, when we applied for our first Irish passports on 15th October this year via Passport Express, having each received a certificate of naturalisation the same day.

Frankly, it's absurd. The certification of naturalisation (which bears a photograph of the person whose details are contained within) is proof beyond doubt that the person is a citizen of Ireland and thus entitled to an Irish passport. Certified proof of ID and photographs confirm identity.

Any further documentation confirms nothing new or further that the applicant is an Irish citizen, accordingly entitled to a passport.

Certainly a civil servant's sight of an Irish citizen's foreign passport has no bearing on that Irish citizen's Irish nationality, so why they demand it is beyond me.

Gatica · 30-11-2012 11:07AM

come to think of it, my work colleague that got Irish citizenship around same time as me, also was not asked for any other passport. I don't know why they're picking on me. As long as I get both my passports in the next couple of weeks.....

Gatica · 30-11-2012 11:14AM

I called back to ask when this requirement came into effect since up until October no one else was requested for it, she said she didn't know when but that it was indeed required to submit a passport from "your country".

Kotek Besar · 30-11-2012 11:23AM

Gatica wrote: »

I called back to ask when this requirement came into effect since up until October no one else was requested for it, she said she didn't know when but that it was indeed required to submit a passport from "your country".

But "your country" is Ireland. What happens if a naturalised Irish citizen has no other nationality, or has entitlement to another nationality but no valid passport? After all, a passport is merely a travel document. Possession on non-possession of same does not, in itself, have any bearing on a person's citizenship.

Perhaps not all Irish citizens are as equal as the Irish constitution says they are.

schemingbohemia · 30-11-2012 01:25PM

After you get your passport, perhaps think about raising this with the equality authority?

Our man in Havana · 30-11-2012 01:39PM

schemingbohemia wrote: »

After you get your passport, perhaps think about raising this with the equality authority?

He shouldn't have to submit to it first.

Gatica · 01-12-2012 03:35PM

Well I've sent it off anyway with letter of explanation. I've already paid for the passport so I just want to get the two of them now when they're done.

Where's the equality autnority? I thought all complaints had to be directed to the passport office itself? I figured if I did that, they'd just say that you need to submit whatever documents they request.

Kotek Besar · 01-12-2012 04:08PM

Gatica wrote: »

I figured if I did that, they'd just say that you need to submit whatever documents they request.

Such as title deeds to an acre plot of land in Kerry purchased from a leprechaun on St Patrick's day?

Where's the line drawn?

It's total tripe. The passport office issues Irish passports to Irish citizens who apply for them and pay the fee. They need to be satisfied of the identity of the applicant and that he is an Irish citizen. That is all. Once that's fulfilled, any additional documents confirm nothing else relevant.

Our man in Havana · 01-12-2012 04:11PM

The passport office is a law onto itself. They chose to ignore deed polls signed by a high court judge because they are not 2 years old.

Do they make newly married people wait 2 years?

Carvair · 02-12-2012 12:44PM

Gatica wrote: »

come to think of it, my work colleague that got Irish citizenship around same time as me, also was not asked for any other passport. I don't know why they're picking on me. As long as I get both my passports in the next couple of weeks.....

Sorry to disappoint you, but by seeking Irish Citizenship you automatically renounce the citizenship of another country ( Read the oath you spoke at the ceremony)

So if you renounced your original citizenship .. why would you now want the passport from the country that you decided to abondon/leave to come to Ireland

Almost every other country in the world operates the system we have, so to suggest that someone is "Picking on you" is not correct. Staff in the passport office have rules that they must abide by

Kotek Besar · 02-12-2012 12:54PM

Carvair wrote: »

Sorry to disappoint you, but by seeking Irish Citizenship you automatically renounce the citizenship of another country ( Read the oath you spoke at the ceremony)

Total tripe. Ireland allows it's citizens to also hold the nationality of another country. Any existing foreign citizenship is not automatically renounced upon taking the Irish citizenship oath. I don't know where you've got that from.

Carvair wrote: »

So if you renounced your original citizenship .. why would you now want the passport from the country that you decided to abondon/leave to come to Ireland

See above. Foreign citizenship not automatically renounced merely by virtue of receiving a certification of naturalisation as an Irish citizen - unless the third country states so in it's own nationality laws. The OP hasn't suggested that this is the case though.

Carvair wrote: »

Almost every other country in the world operates the system we have

What precise system are you referring to?

Carvair wrote: »

so to suggest that someone is "Picking on you" is not correct. Staff in the passport office have rules that they must abide by

Staff must abide by rules, granted, but that doesn't make the "rules" (if they exist) correct or compatible with the Irish constitution.

Gatica · 03-12-2012 11:05AM

was gonna refute the list of erroneous things that Carvair seems to have pulled out of thin air, but I see that Kotek Besar has already done that.

Just to clarify:

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/Frequently%20asked%20Questions%20about%20Irish%20Citizenship%20and%20Naturalisation#Q10 wrote:

[FONT=Verdana, Helvetica]Q. If I apply for Irish citizenship will I have to surrender my existing citizenship?
A. As far as Irish law is concerned, there is no difficulty about holding Irish citizenship and at the same time citizenship of another State. Some other countries, however, have citizenship laws which do not permit the holding of another citizenship alongside their own, or place restrictions on the holding of more than one citizenship. If you are already a citizen of another country and are considering becoming an Irish citizen (whether by exercising an entitlement, making a declaration or applying for naturalisation), you would be well advised to check first what the position is under the law of your present country of citizenship, in case any step you might take might be regarded under that law as depriving you of that citizenship.[/FONT]

The laws of the other country are for the other country to enforce and not up to the Irish passport office. To confiscate a foreign passport is also probably illegal, since it's the property of the issuing country. (unless it's for criminal reasons)

I still hold dual citizenship, I have so for quite some time and as long as I've had the Irish citizenship. I have chosen to finally apply for my Irish passport. The main requirement of that being that I prove my identity and entitlement to the passport and not somehow suddenly give up previous nationality.

I did read the oath, to my recollection the main content being that I swore allegiance to Ireland etc... nowhere did it mention rejecting other nationalities and such.

schemingbohemia · 03-12-2012 12:57PM

Our man in Havana wrote: »

He shouldn't have to submit to it first.

Obviously :rolleyes: but rather than risking annoying the same person who is wrongly forcing him to do so and possibly delaying the release of the passport it seems to me to make sense to do it afterwards.

Gatica · 03-12-2012 01:33PM

yeah, I kinda went with that logic myself too. Since I'm assuming I'll be getting all my documents back anyway.

Our man in Havana · 03-12-2012 01:35PM

I would make sure to follow it up with a complaint just so no one else is forced to do it.

10-12-2012 01:58AM

Gatica wrote: »

why do they need a foreign passport for 4 weeks? I cannot see this on the website.

They hold the passport for the duration of the application so that the visa's and stamps can be checked. This does not apply for Naturalisation cases as they photocopy the id page.

Kotek Besar · 10-12-2012 08:48AM

LittleNipper wrote: »

They hold the passport for the duration of the application so that the visa's and stamps can be checked. This does not apply for Naturalisation cases as they photocopy the id page.

Sorry, could you just clarify what you mean please?

10-12-2012 12:50PM

Kotek Besar wrote: »

Sorry, could you just clarify what you mean please?

Im not sure if its on the website but i do know that they only take a passport from another country when it has to be checked for residency/visas and stamps. Naturalisation applications require: Naturalisation cert, proof of name and address, a valid photo id or passport for id purposes, birth certificate and marriage cert if it applies.

Kotek Besar · 10-12-2012 01:12PM

LittleNipper wrote: »

Im not sure if its on the website but i do know that they only take a passport from another country when it has to be checked for residency/visas and stamps.

What specific type of residency / visa / stamps are you suggesting the Irish passport office might be checking for, in the foreign passport of an Irish citizen? Surely you don't mean Irish residency / visa / stamps?

LittleNipper wrote: »

Naturalisation applications require: Naturalisation cert, proof of name and address, a valid photo id or passport for id purposes, birth certificate and marriage cert if it applies.

Indeed, says so here:
http://www.dfa.ie/home/index.aspx?id=84782

Still unclear as to why the Irish passport office, and you, feel it's relevant that the former have sight of the foreign passport(s) of an Irish citizen as a condition of issuing to that Irish citizen an Irish passport, to which he has an entitlement.

Gatica · 10-12-2012 01:43PM

well, while I still don't understand why they needed my foreign passport, I got both passports back in the post. It may have even been within the 10 day time-frame of the express service if I had "known" that they would want that passport.
It is still unclear how on earth an applicant is supposed to guess that they should send in their passport. So far as I can see, the express service basically does not apply to first time naturalised applicants.

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ALL Passport Related Questions in here! Please Read Post#1 first!