The Academies

goreyguy · 27-11-2012 1:53am #1

List of every player currently in one of the four Irish academies.

Loosehead Ed Byrne
Loosehead Jack O'Connell
Loosehead Kyle McCall
Loosehead Finlay Bealham
Loosehead James Cronin
Loosehead/Hooker James Treacy
Hooker Niall Scannell
Hooker Brian Byrne
Hooker David Doyle
Hooker Jonny Murphy
Hooker Kevin O'Byrne
Hooker Duncan Casey
Hooker James Rael
Tighthead Martin Moore
Tighthead Tadhg Furlong
Tighthead Conor Carey
Tighthead Jake Caulfield
Tighthead Jamie Dever
Tighthead Peter Reilly
Lock Cathal O'Flaherty
Lock Tadhg Beirne
Lock Gavin Thornbury
Lock Alan O'Connor
Lock James Simpson
Lock Daniel Qualter
Lock Ultan Dilane
Lock Philip Donnellan
Lock Brian Hayes
Flanker/Lock Ben Marshall
Flanker Dan Leavy
Flanker Conor Gilsenan
Flanker Josh Van Der Flier
Flanker Jordi Murphy
Flanker Conor Joyce
Flanker Neil Faloon
Flanker Aaron Conneely
Flanker David Heffernan
Flanker Jonathan Gardiner
Flanker Shane Buckley
Flanker Ryan Murphy
Eight Jack Conan
Eight Sean O'Connell
Eight Jack O'Donoghue
Scrum Half Luke McGrath
Scrum Half Marcus Walsh
Scrum Half Kieran Marmion(may have signed a non academy contract recently)
Scrum Half Brian Haugh
Outhalf Cathal Marsh
Outhalf Noel Reid
Outhalf Stuart Olding
Outhalf Jack Carty
Outhalf Tadgh Leader
Outhalf Johnny Holland
Centre Cian Bohane
Centre Jordan Coughlan
Centre Colm O'Shea
Centre Chris Farrell
Centre Corey Hircock
Centre Harry McNulty
Centre/Fullback Robbie Henshaw(may have signed a non academy contract recently)
Wing Andrew Boyle
Wing Sam Coughlan Murray
Wing Conor Finn
Wing Steve Macauley
Wing Ronan O'Mahony
Wing/Fullback Darren Hudson
Wing/Fullback Darren Moroney
Fullback Mikey Sherlock*(not sure about his status)
Fullback Rory Scholes
Fullback Peter Nelson
Fullback Ricky Andrew
Fullback Shane Layden
Fullback Darragh Leader
Fullback Darren Sweetnam

Fireball07 · 27-11-2012 1:59am

No Munster TH is a glaring omission. You'd think there would be one good young TH in the whole province.

macslash · 27-11-2012 2:07am

Aren't Kieran Marmian and Robbie Henshaw in the Connacht academy also?

Podge_irl · 27-11-2012 2:14am

I'm still amused by the massive change in the Leinster academy towards being mostly forwards. And its the bloody backs that need replacing - a lot of young Leinster forwards are going to end up in other provinces. I'd be surprised if one of Moore or Furlong doesn't move.

Munster continue with their odd over-production of hookers, but their overall academy seems a bit light on numbers.

ormond lad · 27-11-2012 2:30am

Podge_irl wrote: »

I'm still amused by the massive change in the Leinster academy towards being mostly forwards. And its the bloody backs that need replacing - a lot of young Leinster forwards are going to end up in other provinces. I'd be surprised if one of Moore or Furlong doesn't move.

Munster continue with their odd over-production of hookers, but their overall academy seems a bit light on numbers.

Munsters academy always is lightish on numbers.
IIRC there was an interview with Ian Sherwin from a few years ago when he was academy head when he said Munster had a smaller number in the academy than there was room for as the focus was on quality not quantity

tolosenc · 27-11-2012 3:16am

Podge_irl wrote: »

but their overall academy seems a bit light on numbers.

It's worth noting that Ulster and Leinster have substantially larger population pools to pick from. Law of averages dictates that there'd be half the number of quality youngsters in Munster as there would be in Ulster or Leinster.

phog · 27-11-2012 10:01am

Fireball07 wrote: »

No Munster TH is a glaring omission. You'd think there would be one good young TH in the whole province.

Probably one of the reasons why Christy Condon (about 30?) got a develeopment contract this year. We've Alan Cotter (25?) on a dev contract too.

bamboozle · 27-11-2012 10:28am

Mikey Sherlock left the Leinster academy at end of last season. He's playing 2B rugby with Skerries and doing his finals in college.

goreyguy · 27-11-2012 10:32am

macslash wrote: »

Aren't Kieran Marmian and Robbie Henshaw in the Connacht academy also?

Think both have signed non academy contracts, Marmion certainly has.

27-11-2012 10:43am

Fireball07 wrote: »

No Munster TH is a glaring omission. You'd think there would be one good young TH in the whole province.

As far as I know James Cronin can play th very well I'm slow to believe it as I think your one or the other but apparently he's a genuine either side of the scrum guy

Fight_Night · 27-11-2012 12:41pm

Severe lack of scrum halves. Backs in general need more attention, a lot of wings but still not happy with those scrum half numbers

goreyguy · 27-11-2012 12:49pm

bamboozle wrote: »

Mikey Sherlock left the Leinster academy at end of last season. He's playing 2B rugby with Skerries and doing his finals in college.

Got to wonder what his future will be now. Wasn't he very highly rated?

jm08 · 27-11-2012 1:29pm

Fireball07 wrote: »

No Munster TH is a glaring omission. You'd think there would be one good young TH in the whole province.

John Ryan is 24 and this season got a Dev. Contract. Plays TH for Cork Con. Went to LI on loan for 3 weeks earlier in the season. They seemed to rate him over there. Against Wasps, he came on and won two penalties against Wasps.

A few of last season's academy got Dev. Contracts so that might explain the depleted nos. in the academy and otherwise Munster have a very young team.

Cathal Sheridan (scrumhalf)
Dave O'Callaghan (flanker)
Luke O'Dea (wing)
Alan Cotter (prop)
JJ Hanrahan (OH/Centre)

Hype710 · 27-11-2012 1:57pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

I'm still amused by the massive change in the Leinster academy towards being mostly forwards. And its the bloody backs that need replacing - a lot of young Leinster forwards are going to end up in other provinces. I'd be surprised if one of Moore or Furlong doesn't move.

I think next year we'll see several backs joining the Academy; the likes of Crosbie, Daly, Byrne, Brewer, Dardis and possibly Shanahan, O'Loughlin and Farrell.

It's amazing the amount of talented guys who play in the Leinster schools cup go on and play pro. With Leinster's current age profile it's no surprise to see many of them move on to pastures new.

ormond lad · 27-11-2012 2:04pm

Hype710 wrote: »

I think next year we'll see several backs joining the Academy; the likes of Crosbie, Daly, Byrne, Brewer, Dardis and possibly Shanahan, O'Loughlin and Farrell.

It's amazing the amount of talented guys who play in the Leinster schools cup go on and play pro. With Leinster's current age profile it's no surprise to see many of them move on to pastures new.

And the scary thing is that the youths game in Leinster is producing some very very good players on top of the schools esp considering their is now more kids registered to play in clubs than in the rugby schools. (source 10/11 IRFU annual report Annual_Report_2010/11)
2 of those you name are youths and with the improvements in youths rugby development their will be more from the youths game.

Aiden7 · 27-11-2012 2:09pm

Leinster seem to have a hell of a lot of forwards coming through, anyone able give anymore info on them who is that second row Thornbury? he is bloody Huge for a lad just turned 19! Also I thought Jordan Coghlan was a backrow? he was in the jwc a few months back

CIARAN_BOYLE · 27-11-2012 2:23pm

Aiden7 wrote: »

Leinster seem to have a hell of a lot of forwards coming through, anyone able give anymore info on them who is that second row Thornbury? he is bloody Huge for a lad just turned 19! Also I thought Jordan Coghlan was a backrow? he was in the jwc a few months back

He was a backrow

He played preseason for Leinster in the center, and has featured off the bench for the senior team wearing the 22 shirt which is usually given to backs cover

He has played A and AIL rugby in the center and the backrow this season.

I'm not sure where he is going to end up. Someone in Leinster made the decision that there are enough backrows in the squad and the academy and to convert him but I'm not sure if it will work out.

.ak · 27-11-2012 2:50pm

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

He was a backrow

He played preseason for Leinster in the center, and has featured off the bench for the senior team wearing the 22 shirt which is usually given to backs cover

He has played A and AIL rugby in the center and the backrow this season.

I'm not sure where he is going to end up. Someone in Leinster made the decision that there are enough backrows in the squad and the academy and to convert him but I'm not sure if it will work out.

Leinster wouldn't be playing him at 12 repeatedly if they didn't think he would work out there. Give him a season or two before judging him there I think.

Aiden7 · 27-11-2012 3:35pm

Any reason why they moved him to centre? as he is 6'5 and not far off 17 stone, that kind of size would make him more suited to second row/6/8 than centre, or is it Leinster feel that they need to have a big unit in the backs with the current fashion amongst teams to have second row sized backs

Fireball07 · 27-11-2012 3:41pm

jm08 wrote: »

John Ryan is 24 and this season got a Dev. Contract. Plays TH for Cork Con. Went to LI on loan for 3 weeks earlier in the season. They seemed to rate him over there. Against Wasps, he came on and won two penalties against Wasps.

I do actually know who Ryan is

I'd still like to see another younger player coming through, even if we offer an academy place to someone from another province?? Leinster seem to have a huge amount of THs coming through now, have Munster had any good at U-20 and U-19s level in the past 2 or so years?

A few of last season's academy got Dev. Contracts so that might explain the depleted nos. in the academy and otherwise Munster have a very young team.

Cathal Sheridan (scrumhalf)
Dave O'Callaghan (flanker)
Luke O'Dea (wing)
Alan Cotter (prop)
JJ Hanrahan (OH/Centre)

That is true...but it should be on a constant rotation basis, surely? Anyway, I think the numbers look reasonably okay but for props.

Hagz · 27-11-2012 3:44pm

Aiden7 wrote: »

Any reason why they moved him to centre? as he is 6'5 and not far off 17 stone, that kind of size would make him more suited to second row/6/8 than centre, or is it Leinster feel that they need to have a big unit in the backs with the current fashion amongst teams to have second row sized backs

He's apparently very athletic and skill full. I guess they just feel like he's got the ability to be a good centre. He's played a bit of rugby at 7 for Leinster 'A' so I don't think they are committing fully to the centre switch.

.ak · 27-11-2012 3:56pm

He's got great hands. Also we need to get out of the habit of picking players for positions based on their size and weight. If he's got the skills to play at 12 he should be there.

Higher · 27-11-2012 4:22pm

There is some monster playing for Roscrea or Newbridge (can't remember which one). Hes 16 years old, a center and 117kg or something.

[Jackass] · 27-11-2012 4:31pm

Taking the depth and age grade of the senior side into account, I think Leinster are well covered other than second row (obviously) and back three (surprisingly). Some back three prospects have failed to deliver thus far also.

Everywhere else is fairly handy. I think Felix Jones might be kicking himself somewhat for his move though. Left when there was loads of traffic ahead of him, filled with Lions and internationals, but given the current state of play and how young he still is, he could be a first team player now...it's amazing how quickly things can change. He may also have left to be part of the then biggest team in Europe, but it turned out that the team he left was just about to become the biggest team in Europe and he may well have missed out in taking part in at least three Heineken Cup winning campaigns...

Ulster are spoiled for choice with the amount of quality coming through.

Connacht have some tasty players coming through too...Marimon the most notable, but O'Halloran in the senior squad is quality too.

Munster have deputised in certain areas with astute young signings. Have some very promising players, but need the majority of them to deliver.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 27-11-2012 4:44pm

Aiden7 wrote: »

Any reason why they moved him to centre? as he is 6'5 and not far off 17 stone, that kind of size would make him more suited to second row/6/8 than centre, or is it Leinster feel that they need to have a big unit in the backs with the current fashion amongst teams to have second row sized backs

To be honest he would be my fourth choice 6/8 in the academy alone.

Murphy/Marshall have more experience and have really impressed at 6 and at 8 this season, (murphy has done well at 7 too this season), whie Conan has snuck ahead of Coughlan imo as a backrow.

Also he has never really played second row so I'm not sure whether that would be a better option for him.

Too many backrows not enough backs.

goreyguy · 27-11-2012 5:10pm

Murphy isn't an 8 imo, 6 or 7, ideally 7 but there is a lot of 7's at Leinster now.

Fireball07 · 27-11-2012 5:38pm

[Jackass] wrote: »

Everywhere else is fairly handy. I think Felix Jones might be kicking himself somewhat for his move though. Left when there was loads of traffic ahead of him, filled with Lions and internationals, but given the current state of play and how young he still is, he could be a first team player now...it's amazing how quickly things can change. He may also have left to be part of the then biggest team in Europe, but it turned out that the team he left was just about to become the biggest team in Europe and he may well have missed out in taking part in at least three Heineken Cup winning campaigns...

I disagree with your point about Jones tbh...he's so injury-prone that he'd never have established himself ahead of Kearney, who's arguably the best full-back around. And since he only covers one position, he's not going to be on the bench.

So while he may have played a bit-part in a couple of HC-winning campaigns, he wouldn't have been a major contributor, and I think he's better off starting elsewhere.

liam12989 · 27-11-2012 7:38pm

whats the story with young brewer? wasnt his dad an AB/

goreyguy · 27-11-2012 7:42pm

liam12989 wrote: »

whats the story with young brewer? wasnt his dad an AB/

He is in 6th year, would be pretty surprising if him and Dardis weren't in the academy next season though.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 27-11-2012 7:43pm

liam12989 wrote: »

whats the story with young brewer? wasnt his dad an AB/

His father Mike Brewer is indeed a former All Black (32 caps)

As for Harison he is still young. Still in secondary school so too young for the academy system.

[Jackass] · 27-11-2012 7:45pm

Fireball07 wrote: »

I disagree with your point about Jones tbh...he's so injury-prone that he'd never have established himself ahead of Kearney, who's arguably the best full-back around. And since he only covers one position, he's not going to be on the bench.

So while he may have played a bit-part in a couple of HC-winning campaigns, he wouldn't have been a major contributor, and I think he's better off starting elsewhere.

Possibly, but he didn't get a bad run of injuries until he went to Munster - who knows, he may have been luckier at Leinster in avoiding injuries, it's impossible to say.

He'd be useful on the wing though, given how much McFadden has had to deputise in the Leinster back three, I'd say he would have seen lots of game time there, and with Lukes long term injury and the retirements of Horgan and Dempsey since he left, he could be a first teamer if all were fit, along side Kearney and Nacewa. Leinster back three is really suffering for depth the last while - Dave Kearney, Carr, Conway, McFadden - he may well be able to see off the challanges of all of them.

ray jay · 27-11-2012 9:05pm

There are an awful lot of fullbacks on that list.

[Jackass] wrote: »

Taking the depth and age grade of the senior side into account, I think Leinster are well covered other than second row (obviously) and back three (surprisingly). Some back three prospects have failed to deliver thus far also.

Everywhere else is fairly handy.

Outside centre seems a little light to me.

Hagz · 27-11-2012 9:15pm

I'd expect a big income of backs over the next two seasons.
My expectations for the next Academy batch

Peter Dooley (Loose-Head Prop)
Max McFarland (Wing/Full-Back)
Cian Kelleher (Full-Back)
Adam Byrne (Centre/Full-Back/Wing)
Rory O'Loughlin (Centre)
Billy Dardis (Full-Back)
Ross Molony (Lock)
Thomas Daly (Inside Centre)

Tox56 · 27-11-2012 9:20pm

Hagz wrote: »

I'd expect a big income of backs over the next two seasons.
My expectations for the next Academy batch

Peter Dooley (Loose-Head Prop)
Max McFarland (Wing/Full-Back)
Cian Kelleher (Full-Back)
Adam Byrne (Centre/Full-Back/Wing)
Rory O'Loughlin (Centre)
Billy Dardis (Full-Back)
Ross Molony (Lock)
Thomas Daly (Inside Centre)

One I'm really interested in is the fly-half for the Leinster U18's this season (Byrne I think?). I don't know what the rest of his game is like, but he sounded like a hell of a kicker from reports, and that's one of those things you would assume is transferable no matter what level you play at. Is he expected to join the Leinster Academy?

Quint2010 · 27-11-2012 9:20pm

Hagz wrote: »

I'd expect a big income of backs over the next two seasons.
My expectations for the next Academy batch

Peter Dooley (Loose-Head Prop)
Max McFarland (Wing/Full-Back)
Cian Kelleher (Full-Back)
Adam Byrne (Centre/Full-Back/Wing)
Rory O'Loughlin (Centre)
Billy Dardis (Full-Back)
Ross Molony (Lock)
Thomas Daly (Inside Centre)

Not Brewer no?

Hagz · 27-11-2012 9:33pm

Tox56 wrote: »

One I'm really interested in is the fly-half for the Leinster U18's this season (Byrne I think?). I don't know what the rest of his game is like, but he sounded like a hell of a kicker from reports, and that's one of those things you would assume is transferable no matter what level you play at. Is he expected to join the Leinster Academy?

Ross Byrne of St.Michael's. I'd say he will eventually get into the academy. Fly-Half is a bit of a light area. Yes there's Holland and McKeon but I don't see either being that great. I think next season would be a year or two too early for Byrne though.

Quint2010 wrote: »

Not Brewer no?

Very possible. I just was thinking that Thomas Daly is a bit of a shoe in and if you couple that with their experiment of Coghlan at 12, they may want to hold off on Brewer for another year.

That list is most likely very different from what the actual one will be, although I do think that Adam Byrne, Thomas Daly and Billy Dardis are pretty much shoe-ins.

Quint2010 · 27-11-2012 9:41pm

Hagz wrote: »

Ross Byrne of St.Michael's. I'd say he will eventually get into the academy. Fly-Half is a bit of a light area. Yes there's Holland and McKeon but I don't see either being that great. I think next season would be a year or two too early for Byrne though.

Very possible. I just was thinking that Thomas Daly is a bit of a shoe in and if you couple that with their experiment of Coghlan at 12, they may want to hold off on Brewer for another year.

That list is most likely very different from what the actual one will be, although I do think that Adam Byrne, Thomas Daly and Billy Dardis are pretty much shoe-ins.

Byrne and Daly are both finished school right?

Hagz · 27-11-2012 9:43pm

Quint2010 wrote: »

Byrne and Daly are both finished school right?

Byrne isn't. Daly is a Youths player but yes, he's been playing in the Ulster Bank League for Lansdowne.

irishbucsfan · 27-11-2012 9:45pm

Hagz wrote: »

Byrne isn't. Daly is a Youths player but yes, he's been playing in the Ulster Bank League for Lansdowne.

Adam Byrne is, which is who I think he's referring to

Quint2010 · 27-11-2012 9:46pm

Hagz wrote: »

Byrne isn't. Daly is a Youths player but yes, he's been playing in the Ulster Bank League for Lansdowne.

Wow-played for Leinster A and still in school? Can't remember too many people doing that?

Hagz · 27-11-2012 10:06pm

Thought you meant Ross Byrne, the out-half I commented about. Adam Byrne is a youths player as well and plays with UCD.

Quint2010 · 27-11-2012 10:18pm

Hagz wrote: »

Thought you meant Ross Byrne, the out-half I commented about. Adam Byrne is a youths player as well and plays with UCD.

Ah right sorry my mistake. What age is Daly?

Hagz · 27-11-2012 10:27pm

Quint2010 wrote: »

Ah right sorry my mistake. What age is Daly?

Have no idea. 19? He's playing u20s this year and I'm pretty sure he's not eligible again.

goreyguy · 27-11-2012 11:02pm

Think Thomas Daly, Adam Byrne, Harrison Brewer and Billy Dardis are locks for the academy next year

ormond lad · 27-11-2012 11:03pm

Quint2010 wrote: »

Ah right sorry my mistake. What age is Daly?

Hagz wrote: »

Have no idea. 19? He's playing u20s this year and I'm pretty sure he's not eligible again.

Daly is not eligible for u20s again next season so is 19.

.ak · 27-11-2012 11:19pm

I wouldn't mind Brewer being held off a bit longer. The chap is already getting unfairly hyped and I'd hate to see him launched into any senior team without the experience.

Higher · 27-11-2012 11:37pm

Brewer isn't that good to be honest. I think most of the hype isn't helped by who his dad is.

Macken looked better at school's level and look how he's turned out.

Hagz · 27-11-2012 11:50pm

Higher wrote: »

Macken looked better at school's level and look how he's turned out.

I still think Macken is a serious talent, he's only 21. His problem is just his defence and obviously if you're playing 13 that can be glaring. But I wouldn't include him in a list of players who hasn't delivered on hype. Still a lot more opportunities to come his way, especially when the BOD hangs up his boots.

its_phil · 28-11-2012 12:00am

Hagz wrote: »

I still think Macken is a serious talent, he's only 21. His problem is just his defence and obviously if you're playing 13 that can be glaring. But I wouldn't include him in a list of players who hasn't delivered on hype. Still a lot more opportunities to come his way, especially when the BOD hangs up his boots.

Honestly I think he's one of these players who will have to go to England for consistent starting game time.

Hagz · 28-11-2012 12:07am

its_phil wrote: »

Honestly I think he's one of these players who will have to go to England for consistent starting game time.

Maybe, but O'Driscoll is retiring after the Lions so that means he only has to compete with O'Malley. Take into account that D'Arcy will likely retire at the end of the 2013/14 season and that leaves Leinster with a lot of space in the mid-field.

goreyguy · 28-11-2012 12:08am

a lot of space but Macken doesn't look like he will be able to take advantage of it, big and fast but provided little else yet apart from poor defense

The Academies

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