Taxi men and the ol' "I have no change"

Difference Engine · 23-11-2012 9:23pm

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

However you must be wrong on whether tender can be refused. You can probably legally say you have no change prior to selling something - which, as I said I have never seen - but if you charge people post-service, like a restaurant etc, you can't charge €50 for something which cost far less because thats all the customer has. Then you legally do have to provide the change. Taxis charge after the service is provided.

You have it the wrong way around. No one is ever legally obliged to give you change.

If you pay for something post service a debt is created. The supplier is required to accept whatever legal tender you give him in settlement of the debt. Legal tender includes coins, notes and other instruments depending on the jurisdiction.

Stamps were legal tender in the US at one point. You could have paid for your dinner in a restaurant with stamps or all in coins ( subject to certain limits on the amount of coins).

If you pay pre service no debt has yet been created so the supplier can refuse legal tender. This is why shops can refuse €100 or €200 notes.

Buying dinner in Supermac's, prepay so no debt, they can refuse to accept your €500 note. Having dinner in a Michelin star restaurant, postpay so debt created, they have to accept your 100 €1 coins.

A taxi fare is an example of a debt being created so he has to accept any legal tender offered to him but he is under no obligation to give you change. Pay with the contents of your penny jar if they are being awkward.

opinion guy · 23-11-2012 9:29pm

keith16 wrote: »

Hailo FTW.

Enter your credit card details once. No cash involved, no stopping at an ATM on the way. Set up an auto tip, rate drivers and passengers. In time will mean the end of those radio companies who are cnuts to deal with.

One of the few killer apps IMO.

Auto tip ??!?!?!?:eek:

F**k that

Hippies! · 23-11-2012 9:32pm

fullstop wrote: »

When did Bus Eireann start charging people as they got off the bus? I must have missed that.

Lol you're funny. When you get on that is obviously...most people would've got that

the groutch · 23-11-2012 9:37pm

curlygirly wrote: »

only happened to me once when i wanted to pay with a 50 - and he said " no worries, get me next time" and gave me the 8quid ride or free.

cool story, but can we get back to talking about taxi drivers

fullstop · 23-11-2012 9:41pm

Hippies! wrote: »

Lol you're funny. When you get on that is obviously...most people would've got that

Exactly, so it's completely different :rolleyes: You pay before the service onj Bus Eireann so they don't have to accept your custom. With taxis, you pay after the service so they should accept whatever you give them, even a €50 note.

ziggyman17 · 23-11-2012 9:47pm

never ever get a taxi. when in the city we always get the last bus home or a lift off a family member, taxi drivers are hungary greed b#####ds..

steve9859 · 23-11-2012 9:56pm

If its an €8.70 fare, for example, and you pay with a €50, in my experience it's not the €50 that's the problem. They pull out the two €20s straight away, no problem. It's the €1.30 that always seems to be the issue....they huff and puff and look all over the place and in every pocket, contorting their body into awkward positions as they pretend they're looking in their back pocket. And I bl**dy well sit there 'till they get it!!

Especially seeing as that €8.70 has taken me about 2 bl**dy miles!!

GoldenLight · 23-11-2012 10:01pm

mitosis wrote: »

Never encountered such a problem. Taxi is under no legal obligation to provide change in any case - same as a shop.

Well on those grounds the customer is in no obligation to pay €50, for a €5 fair.

I have no idea if the above quote is true or not, but I know that if a shop owner didn't have a float of change for their customers, they would be out of business within the first week. So it would seem foolish for a taxi drive not to do like wise and have a small float. ( you also have in a taxi the fact he/she generally supplies the service before he is paid.)

In answer to the OP question, I generally catch taxi two or three times a week with my Mum and I've never had a problem with the driver not having change, mind you I would try not to get into a taxi with a €50 note for a €5 journey.

Madam_X · 23-11-2012 10:01pm

This has never happened to me.

irishgirl19 · 23-11-2012 10:22pm

smash wrote: »

Anyone use the Halo App? I use it a bit and I've noticed a lot of taxi drivers don't add the tip when you get your receipts from halo. Must be
to avoid the extra commission.

Well there is no reason for a tip to be on a receipt. Same way when ya tip a barber hairdresser etc

Duggys Housemate · 23-11-2012 10:39pm

Difference Engine wrote: »

You have it the wrong way around. No one is ever legally obliged to give you change.

If you pay for something post service a debt is created. The supplier is required to accept whatever legal tender you give him in settlement of the debt. Legal tender includes coins, notes and other instruments depending on the jurisdiction.

Stamps were legal tender in the US at one point. You could have paid for your dinner in a restaurant with stamps or all in coins ( subject to certain limits on the amount of coins).

If you pay pre service no debt has yet been created so the supplier can refuse legal tender. This is why shops can refuse €100 or €200 notes.

Buying dinner in Supermac's, prepay so no debt, they can refuse to accept your €500 note. Having dinner in a Michelin star restaurant, postpay so debt created, they have to accept your 100 €1 coins.

A taxi fare is an example of a debt being created so he has to accept any legal tender offered to him but he is under no obligation to give you change. Pay with the contents of your penny jar if they are being awkward.

Thats one law, probably superseded by another - you cant deliberately and systematically overcharge. In short if a taxi driver always claims he has no change, and always cites that legal tender argument for asking you to pay whatever you have, he is inevitably and continuously an over-charger.

A shop can't afford to act like that because we can choose shops by walking in, or past. In general - although I dont think there is a law on this but it is cultural - we take the first taxi in the rank, or the first one who stops. So we don't "shop around", which is probably why Taxi drivers unlike all other businesses dont bother with large floats.

As for the claim it is safer, surely the guy who doesn't carry change is ending up with more money in notes, he could be robbed anyway. Career risk.

Hippies! · 23-11-2012 10:56pm

fullstop wrote: »

Exactly, so it's completely different :rolleyes: You pay before the service onj Bus Eireann so they don't have to accept your custom. With taxis, you pay after the service so they should accept whatever you give them, even a €50 note.

No it's not completely different, only someone with breathing difficulties obstructing oxygen to their brain would think that...hence the blue :rolleyes: face eh :P

That's it yea anyway defend the big company and continue being obnoxious to the little man and his taxi :pac:

Yellowblackbird · 23-11-2012 10:58pm

Difference Engine wrote: »

You have it the wrong way around. No one is ever legally obliged to give you change.

If you pay for something post service a debt is created. The supplier is required to accept whatever legal tender you give him in settlement of the debt. Legal tender includes coins, notes and other instruments depending on the jurisdiction.

Stamps were legal tender in the US at one point. You could have paid for your dinner in a restaurant with stamps or all in coins ( subject to certain limits on the amount of coins).

If you pay pre service no debt has yet been created so the supplier can refuse legal tender. This is why shops can refuse €100 or €200 notes.

Buying dinner in Supermac's, prepay so no debt, they can refuse to accept your €500 note. Having dinner in a Michelin star restaurant, postpay so debt created, they have to accept your 100 €1 coins.

A taxi fare is an example of a debt being created so he has to accept any legal tender offered to him but he is under no obligation to give you change. Pay with the contents of your penny jar if they are being awkward.

This point has been made a couple of times in the thread but each time it is implied that this is in favor of the taximan. He is not obliged to give change. Therefore he wins. WRONG. By offering legal tender for a debt created the fare has met his legal obligation. By being unable to process a simple cash payment of debt is a business fail for the poor taxi man. The fare should leave at that point, the non possibility of the debt being settled immediately is not his fault or liability. The debt of course stands. The criminal charge of non payment of taxi fare does not apply as it was the taxi man who could not accept payment.

It it is of course good business practice and courtesy to pay up all accounts by the month and the fares accountant on receipt of invoice should ensure prompt payment to the creditors account.

Spook_ie · 23-11-2012 11:18pm

As usual degenerating into a taxi men are all **** thread BUT i'll throw my 10c ( change from a €5 bit )

It's a fact that not many drivers are going to go out with a €200 float of €5 and €10 notes, it's simply idiotic and foolhardy to do so. However most taxi drivers will carry enough to change 1 possibly 2 €50s ( later in the shift ) but even if I can change a €50 I will still ask if someone has smaller for a small fare

Simply because of the following reasons

1 Most people tendering fake notes will go to a shop or a taxi for a small €5 or less purchase, so they can maximize their exchange rate, so if I have a fare of less than €10 I automatically go on high alert

2 It only takes 2 or 3 people to tender €50 notes and your float is wiped out, usually people have the money but just want to get change themselves for the babysitter or whatever

As to the shuffling around for €1.50's yeah seen that done TBH silliness in the extreme, for example

fare is €6.50 customer pays with a €20 usually I'll have the €3.50 coins in hand BEFORE the customer has even decided to fiddle in their pocket for the €1.50 to ensure that I don't have to give a full note in the change. Usually works out that most say "just the notes will do bud"

Where To · 24-11-2012 12:14am

ziggyman17 wrote: »

never ever get a taxi. when in the city we always get the last bus home or a lift off a family member, taxi drivers are hungary greed b#####ds..

Topper Harley · 24-11-2012 12:48am

Where To wrote: »

Don't worry, I still like taxi drivers. Better than sitting next to some smelly person on the bus or walking for hours at 4am on a Sunday morning. And I enjoy the chats.

I was in Donnybrook and told the driver to just bring me through town as far as €20 got me as I'd no more and I'd walk the rest of the way. He asked where I was going (Swords - usually €30-40) and dropped me to my front door for €20, no change required.

UCDVet · 24-11-2012 1:53am

Maybe I'm just lucky, but I've had great experiences with the taxis in Dublin. Really, I can't complain at all.

I've only taken.....about 10 trips, but not a single problem. On more than one occasion I've had the driver round down on my fare (which I appreciated, but I wasn't sure if that meant I should or shouldn't tip?). All of them made change, took a reasonable route to my destination, were professional and friendly, and probably about half ended up sharing some useful information about the city or my destination that saved me time or money in the long run.

Duggys Housemate · 24-11-2012 1:55am

yes, to be fair only in ireland have I been let off a rounded down fare.

AgathaC · 24-11-2012 2:06am

Taxi drivers should always have our change ready and waiting, no matter what the fare or how late in their shift it is, plus they should come in to turn on our lights and make us a cup of tea before they go. Not too much to ask, maybe whipe our arses if we need a late night pooh after our strenuous night out on the town. Ungrateful bstards them taxi drivers,

Duggys Housemate · 24-11-2012 2:19am

AgathaC wrote: »

Taxi drivers should always have our change ready and waiting, no matter what the fare or how late in their shift it is, plus they should come in to turn on our lights and make us a cup of tea before they go. Not too much to ask, maybe whipe our arses if we need a late night pooh after our strenuous night out on the town. Ungrateful bstards them taxi drivers,

well the first part is true enough, like any other business, have enough change or close for custom until you get change. The rest is nice to have. Maybe a bit much.The taxi driver apologists are not doing themselves any favours on this thread. I'd say the typical taxi driver mentality would soon disappear were the rest of the business world to act like this to taxi drivers

Taxi driver enters cafe, and orders:

Proprietor: Is that all your having. A fecking cup of tea and a sandwich. I've been waiting for half and hour for fecking custom. Do you know the fecking cost of the rent here?! FFS. Hang on, I'll just sit down there in the seat in front of you and sigh deeply while bitching about the country and the traffic.

later:

Proprietor: What!! Is that all the money you have. Have you anything smaller than a twenty? For fcuks sake. The cost was only eight, which isn't worth my while, did I tell you about mortgage? Feckers. I'll have to go across the road to the properly run business for change then will I? ARE YOU SURE? YEAH? Oh fcuk it, here. Heres your 12 change.

sighs deeply.

B.A._Baracus · 24-11-2012 2:20am

- a taxi man saying he doesnt have change of a 20 is taking the piss (Looking for the fare to be rounded off in his favor?)

But now that the op mentions it, why is a 50 euro note too much?
I've experienced this too. To the point its just nature to let the taxi driver know when getting in that I am paying with a 50 ... but why?!

Its not a 100, 200 or 500 euro note. Fair enough like. Shops don't even accept them (Dud notes and all) Heck most Irish people dont carry them.

But here is the kicker. There has been a few times in my life when I was getting a taxi late at night and was going a good distance. Taxi driver didnt have no problem giving me back €15ish change from my 50 note. So it aint all out of fear of recieving a dud note.

Bah! i hate taxi drivers anyway.

Topper Harley · 24-11-2012 2:21am

AgathaC wrote: »

Taxi drivers should always have our change ready and waiting, no matter what the fare or how late in their shift it is, plus they should come in to turn on our lights and make us a cup of tea before they go. Not too much to ask, maybe whipe our arses if we need a late night pooh after our strenuous night out on the town. Ungrateful bstards them taxi drivers,

Hmm, I see what you're saying...it's unreasonable to expect taxi drivers to be able to provide change to their customers. Fair enough, but the ones who can't, should maybe point this out before committing to take the fare so the passenger can take their custom elsewhere, where their requirements will be met by the person they're paying for a service.

Father Damo · 24-11-2012 4:27am

Nearly every Irish driver rounded to the nearest 50 cent when I used to get them. As did I, if it was 9.70 I let him keep a full tenner, if it was 10.30 they would more often than not call it a square 10.

I dont know why they treated me differently to so many of you lot. Maybe because I had a chat and a banter with them and didnt usually regard taxi drivers like dog sh1t on a shoe like some people posting here.

Saying all that the foreign drivers in Ireland nearly to a man are tight as fcuk for exact money and pretending they have not got enough change.

And as for saying they should have change for a 50, if I have four lads in a row on a ten quid fare paying with 50s, I have to keep going back to the ATM to top up on more 20 notes. Dont know about you but I wouldnt fancy ferrying drunk people around the northside at 4am with nearly a grand in cash on me.

B.A._Baracus · 24-11-2012 4:44am

Father Damo wrote: »

Nearly every Irish driver rounded to the nearest 50 cent when I used to get them. As did I, if it was 9.70 I let him keep a full tenner, if it was 10.30 they would more often than not call it a square 10.

I dont know why they treated me differently to so many of you lot. Maybe because I had a chat and a banter with them and didnt usually regard taxi drivers like dog sh1t on a shoe like some people posting here.

Saying all that the foreign drivers in Ireland nearly to a man are tight as fcuk for exact money and pretending they have not got enough change.

I can say the exact same thing

Most Irish taxi drivers round off the fare (I would go as far as saying nearly them bloody all) and I do the same with tips. Fare comes to €10.10 > driver says €10 > I give €10.50.

But foreign taxi drivers? different story. To the cent. Oh and before some asshole says to me "well, pay what the meter says" :rolleyes: its ****ing psychology people. Round the fair off lower. Passenger is more likely to tip.

In my experience, african taxi drivers are the worst culprits for 'to the cent' .... (I expect to be called a racist for that :rolleyes:)

Father Damo · 24-11-2012 5:11am

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

In my experience, african taxi drivers are the worst culprits for 'to the cent' .... (I expect to be called a racist for that :rolleyes:)

Even here I have had a few try it, and there are not even many Africans in Australia compared to Dublin. At least three times I have had drivers "forget" to turn on the meter, then we arrive and he "realises" it wasnt on, and ask for a flat estimate fare about 2 dollars more than the metered fare would have been. Of course, I have noticed from the kick off the meter wasnt on and rather than pay the over- estimated fare, I tell him I take the trip all the time and say the fare is only 10 dollars when really I should be paying about 12 (and he has quoted 15). In fact, technically because he deliberately never bothered measuring the fare on the meter I dont actully owe him money at all- might try that one next time!

Its only a small saving but it is a great way to piss off some scammer fcuk who thinks you are too drunk to notice. 90% of them are grand and dont be up to this but there are certainly a higher proportion of the African drivers on the fiddle than Irish ones.

dMaN24 · 24-11-2012 6:04am

"-Hiya. I need to go to <place>."
"-No bother."
"-Could you stop by an atm on the way?"
"-Sure. But could you avoid the 50 notes? I don't have change this early in the morning."
"-No bother, boss."

All good.

But when i was living in Blanchardstown (Ongar to be precise) a few years back, and had been in the shoppingcentre. Snow up to the knees, and i knew my walk home would take ages. So i get a taxi. Only had a 50 on me. That or summat like 4.90 in change.

Came to my destination, meter was on 16 euros (!) i hand over the 50 note and he goes nuts.

"-Why don't you have anything smaller? You are my first fare? I don't have change for this? You should have told me you only had this!"

After waiting 10 minutes he miraculously managed to scrape up all the change.
Did i tip? Nope.
Was he Irish? Nope.
Was i surprised? Not really.

He was on his phone all the time yapping to some friend to come over to the shoppingcentre. "-Easy pickings man, they are all lining up for a taxi."

YellowFeather · 24-11-2012 6:15am

curlygirly wrote: »

only happened to me once when i wanted to pay with a 50 - and he said " no worries, get me next time" and gave me the 8quid ride or free.

I had a similar thing a few years ago. Had a job interview and got there about an hour too early and everywhere was shut. I got a taxi to a garage to get something to eat and back again, but I only had a €20 note to pay with. The taxi driver told me she didn't have change but not to worry and I could get her back when I was making loads of money in my new job.

Never forgot it (obviously), and I'd love to see her again and give her a big tip and thanks. It just goes to show how a good deed can stick in your memory.

JustAThought · 24-11-2012 8:02am

YellowFeather wrote: »

I had a similar thing a few years ago. Had a job interview and got there about an hour too early and everywhere was shut. I got a taxi to a garage to get something to eat and back again, but I only had a €20 note to pay with. The taxi driver told me she didn't have change but not to worry and I could get her back when I was making loads of money in my new job.

Never forgot it (obviously), and I'd love to see her again and give her a big tip and thanks. It just goes to show how a good deed can stick in your memory.

Nice story : )

The big fumble + whinge is the standard thou.

I hate to see grown men trying to avoid giving me my fair change + trying to scab money off me- and it happens all the time.

B.A._Baracus · 25-11-2012 4:09am

Father Damo wrote: »

Its only a small saving but it is a great way to piss off some scammer fcuk who thinks you are too drunk to notice. 90% of them are grand and dont be up to this but there are certainly a higher proportion of the African drivers on the fiddle than Irish ones.

Thats one big gripe I have with taxi drivers. They'll short change you or what not cause they think you'll be too drunk to notice. Its such a scumbag thing to do.

Cedrus · 25-11-2012 4:41am

UDP wrote: »

Legally there is nothing to say they have to give you change.

Link to the legislation ? or GTFO

Taxi men and the ol' "I have no change"

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